Mistreated Her..Is She Gone For Good?

[GoingForIt_77]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just when I gave up on the idea of being in a relationship, I met this amazing woman who was SO open minded, easy going, affectionate, sensitive, non-judgemental, good looking, intelligent and totally in to me. We hit it off and began dating. We got closer and closer and both our defenses came down and it grew from there.

 

She did more and more for me as time went by. I couldn't have asked for more, BUT, I DID. The nicer she was, the more I demanded of her. She NEVER argued. She rarely if ever disagreed with me. She was just so happy to be with me. She thought I was the sweetest guy she ever met. She had previously been misued by guys and had an insulting mother, grandmother and sister. She had a low self opinion of herself and guess what? While I encouraged her to stand up to them and start believing in herself, I also on the other hand got more and more stern with her and would lose my cool with her. She would cry and act like a wounded dove and she never deserved that. I loved her dearly, but she brought out an aggresive side of me I didn't know existed. I had never been like that with another woman. I became critical over little things and it just got worse and worse. She would try harder and harder to please me, but I would find fault, while at the same time I would be a SWEETHEART. I guess you can say that I was HOT and COLD and she didn't know who or what to expect.

 

I realized that I had to seek an anger management course, because even though the outbursts were less often, they got worse. I NEVER touched her, but I would yell and she would NEVER fight back and I HATED myself. Whenever things were going well, I would start something and it culminated on New Years Day. She was ready to leave, saying she can't do this anymore. She loves me, but she can't keep hurting and being scared like this. I vowed to stop and I did, but just this past Wednesday, she perceived a small argument as something that reminded her of what she feared and she said she can't anymore, while balling. It seemed like it was the most difficult thing for her to say and do.

 

I LOVE this woman beyond belief and I let out my frustrations out on her. She wrote me an email Thursday night telling me that this is extremely hard and she loves me and that is NOT the issue and never was. She said that she can't live in fear and keep hurting. She said that I taught her to stand up for herself and I did. She said that she is happy that I am going for help now, but she can't be with me if she is scared. She said she can only have communication by email and that she can't talk to me on the phone (too hard for her I guess). She is trying to be tough and take care of herself and I am proud of her for doing so, because I love her, but I am starting my help now, to learn how to control my emotions and outbursts.

 

What can I do with our email communications? What can I do to demonstrate to her that I love her dearly and would still love her in my life. We were going to move in together officially in June. I KNOW she still loves me and is hurting.

 

How do I make her more comfortable with me and allow her to feel more at ease to start trusting me again and want to take it beyond email, when in fact we were so close?

 

I replied to her email 24 hours later and she didn't reply to my reply just yet. I know she's scared. She wants to come over next week to exchange our belongings and I want to know what I can do so that she's not gone forever.

 

Thank you,

 

D

[CarnelianButterfly]

I loved her dearly, but she brought out an aggresive side of me I didn't know existed.

This right here is a big issue for me. She didn't bring it out, she is not responsible for how you acted. You are. You did that to her.

 

You need to get treatment, not just anger management, but see a counselor too. Yelling and acting like you did could lead to worse things like hitting and serious emotional abuse. It sounds like you already emotional abused her as is.

 

You have to give up control. She gets to decide where things will go. Talk in the emails, don't push for anything beyond that, and she will decide what to do. Until then go to therapy.

[GoingForIt_77]

Oh it most definitely had NOTHING to AT ALL to do with her. I have to rephrase that quote. She didn't bring it out. What she portrayed was a victim, because she had been one her whole life. It scared me and made me nervous believe it or not. I HATED hurting her and would cry right there along with her. She NEVER complained and she should have, but again, this was NOT her fault and I have taken 100% of the fault on this.

 

I DO love her. I am seeking therapy now, as well as anger management (something I NEVER had before this relationship. I NEVER had a temper).

 

So, you are saying that I go at her pace in the emails? Which of course I will do. I DO miss her and I don't think she wants to be my friend, because she told me that she sees me as being more than just that and it's hard on her, because she loves me, but she can't see past the hurt and the fear.

 

I love her and hate myself for this.

[Dako]

Ask yourself what you'd tell a woman about giving an abusive ex a second chance. Imagine a sister in her shoes. I'd tell her to run, and I suspect you would too.

 

Get help and follow through. If she wants you, she has the number.

[GoingForIt_77]

Ladies, I know that my actions were wrong. I NEVER blamed her ONCE, even during the relationship for what I was doing. NOT ONCE. Nor am I doing it now.

 

As scared of she was of saying or doing the wrong thing, towards the end, I was also scared that if I say something that would be perceived as starting an argument, or finding fault, would result in her dangling the relationship in my face, which is VERY understandable, but I was living in fear as well. I knew I was slipping and I hated myself. Still do. Now more than ever.

 

Keeping in correspondance with her via email, what should the communications consist of? I know she loves me (she said so in her email), but I also know her fear is stronger than her willingness to put herself out there again, YET, she seems to NOT have the FULL willingness to let go of me completely, because she knows that I DO love her and HATE myself to, seeing I've done to her, what I promised to take her away from.

 

Please advise me how and what and how often should these emails consist of. I will NOT push for more, but right now, we are addressing each other by NAME (no longer term of endearment) and she signs off with her NAME, with no love, as do I, which is normal. I'm just not sure what to do with them?

[Dako]

I'm a 54 year old guy. I just like pretty women better than my own mug.

If I were you, I'd tell her what you've told us, but in neutral, unemotional terms. I know you're unable to check your feelings, but your emotions are what she fears. If you can be as rational as possible and just plant the idea that you're willing to work for her, you can watch if it grows into something.

Give her time to consider her responses and don't smother her.

[GoingForIt_77]

I've told her all of this and more. She knows I'm sorry. She knows I loved her. Here are some of the things she said in her so far "only" email to me post-breakup:

 

"This has been extremely hard for me as well."

 

"I also did not want to speak to you. I'm reaching out now because I know you need it and I will not deprive you of it."

 

"I'm glad you're going to get help, it's something that you can only benefit from. I'm proud of you for taking that step - I know it must have been hard."

 

"I'm sorry if it seems as though I've erased you from my life. That isn't the case - I do cherish what we had and I do still care for you - I simply can't be with you. And I mean that. We're both hurting now in different ways and I hope that with time it will pass."

 

"I'm sorry I can't speak with you on the phone. That's a decision I made for myself and I'm sticking with it. If you want to correspond through email for a bit I can do that but I don't want it to be something we rely on. I ended things for a reason and although I know it's something you're actively working on now I still will not be able to get back into a relationship with you. There's too much hurt and fear there and it's not something I can continue to look past."

 

"I don't know what else to say right now.. I don't know if there's anything else that CAN be said. I loved you dan, and I still do - my feelings for you were never the question. I just need to put myself first for once (you taught me that!) and I need to protect myself and my feelings and in the long run that means we cannot be together."

 

"Know that I don't hate you nor am I trying to erase you from my life. I just can't talk to you on the phone. I would however like to get the stuff I left at your place and return your things as well at some point so maybe at the beginning of the week. I'll email you about that."

 

"Thank you for the well wishes with my doctors appointment tomorrow as well as for the offer of the template for my letter. I already wrote one and gave it in but thank you anyway."

[GoingForIt_77]

This was my reply to her, after having waited 24 hours to do so:

 

"I know this has been extremely hard for you. I can only imagine what you must be feeling inside of you. If you'd like to talk about it (on here I mean), you can share. I'll listen. It's up to you."

 

Taking the step to get the proper help is more important to me than school at this point. If I'm going to allow myself to fully let in..., I have to rid myself of this one last thing that held me back from doing so, because when it's gone, things are....well, we both know that things are great when THAT part doesn't come out. That's undeniable. They tell me at the anger management centre on CDN street that they CAN and WILL help me and I intend to do the rest.

 

You've taught (and still are) me more than you believed you had in you to teach. You're a really strong girl (woman). I hope you know that, because you ARE. It's too bad not too many people saw that in you in your life, because it's always been there. I've always known that. I'm proud of you.

 

We'll for sure arrange something for the stuff you need back and vice versa.

 

Even though it may be a little tough to do this weekend, try and keep smiling, okay? Good.

---------

I sent this to her tonight. She didn't reply yet. I think it was a nice reply, with no pressure. She may be keeping me waiting for a reply, because I waited 24 hours myself, or she just needs to think about what I wrote I guess?

[Lily04]

To be honest, I think you both need a break from each other. Yes, you love each other. Then if that love is strong enough it can handle a bit of a break, for you to develop and seek help, and for her to do the same. When you're both ready, you can come back. I think some 'no contact' would be good, otherwise it may feel like too much of a relationship, you may start to want more and it's hard to check emotions for anyone who loves another...

 

If you truly love her, you will give her time to heal and learn herself. Maybe even time to date other people and see what she wants in life, and for yourself the same. It will be hard, but I think it can be potentially good as well.

 

I am also writing this as a child of 2 parents in the EXACT same relationship you have just described. My dad verbally hurt my mom very very badly...but they are still together. And even now, although I see they both love each other, my mom has experienced a lot of pain and both her & my sister told her multiple times she should have gotten a divorce. I see the diminished self-esteem my mom has, the pain....I'm happy, however, that you are seeking anger management. My dad is not that smart in that he thinks he's stronger than that, although he's very deeply troubled. He will not seek help. He is exactly like you in that he is hot & cold (I think he might have bipolar disorder, or something in any case); he starts screaming, physically smashing things, and then 2 mins. later starts smiling and says he loves me......it's painful just for me.

 

I sincerely think you should give her time and yourself as well, and don't even email each other for a few weeks. See what happens....if you want to email in the future that's fine, but I think things are too soon right now.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Lily

[Dako]

I'm sorry to say this, but she puts your relationship in the past tense pretty firmly. I don't think anything would change her mind except seeing a new you.

 

Whatever you do, you have to find solutions to what brought you to this point. You don't want to repeat this misery. She may help you to understand yourself.

Not a bad gift.

[Lily04]

 

"I also did not want to speak to you. I'm reaching out now because I know you need it and I will not deprive you of it."

 

 

She doesn't want to speak with you right now, but she's only doing so for your sake. She's doing you a very kind favor. You should do one back and tell her, for her sake, you will not ask her to reach out and you think it's for the best that you don't communicate with each other at all for a while, however long she feels necessary.

 

I think that would be a very nice thing as well.

[GoingForIt_77]

Thank you. Both her and I came from abusive parents. Her MOM treated her horribly, as does he grandmother and one of her sisters (to this very day). I encouraged her to distance herself from them, as I did from my own FATHER and at times mother, who do the same thing with me, meanwhile, was hard on her for the littlest things. I wanted to make her tougher, but she was beautiful just the way she was/is.

 

I'm not sure if I agree on her only talking in the past tense. She says she "still" loves me. She recognizes her own self-worth and also recognizes that I told her to put herself #1. She fears what she knows. She also loves the part of me that isn't like that and that part of me is a very sweet guy and she knows that. She can't and now doesn't want to see past the bad. It is still fresh, but she is still willing to keep in minimum contact via email. I am working on my issues in the meantime. I don't want to lose her for good though. There is still love there behind her fear and hurt.

[GoingForIt_77]

What does that tell you Lily? It tells me that she does love me and knows that I didn't mean what I did, but can't see past that.

 

If I maintain a very sweet, light, positive and encouraging correspondence with her, this won't hurt her anymore and it could demonstrate to her that I DO respect her and do not need, nor do I want to resort to what I used to feel I needed to rely on.

 

Besides, she's coming over next week to exchange our respective belongings, so there will be actual "physical" contact then. I love her.

[Dako]

Being caring and gentle will serve you both, no matter how it goes.

I hope things go well for you.

[GoingForIt_77]

Thank you Dako. Do you have any advice for our actual physical meeting for next week to exchange our stuff? She doesn't drive and is arranging for her father to drive her to pick up and drop off the stuff. I'm assuming because she thinks that what she has here will be too much to carry on the bus. In actuality, I was able to put it all into one big bag for her. Can I tell her that there is no need for her Dad to come, seeing it's all in one big bag. I would much prefer her didn't. This way, we can have a chance to sit down and talk for a few in a mature and hopefully loving and amicable fashion. Is there a way I can suggest that he doesn't come, or doesn't need to come?

[Dako]

I suspect Dad is a chaperone of sorts, and she my feel better with him there. Any attempt to keep him away may be seen as pressure.

I'd play by her rules and show you're amenable to a simple meeting.

 

This brings back memories of a similar meeting with my ex at one point.

We were both walking on eggshells and ultra polite, and now we're still friends based on that delicate touch.

[GoingForIt_77]

Also Dako, you said seeing a "new me" would change her mind. It's the "real me" that she loves, but not that other side that comes out at times. If she sees that it doesn't, even though right now it appears that she is more than unsure whether or not she even wants to, or is able to stick around and find out if it won't, even from a distance, because of her hurt and fear. If there is a way I can show her this, even in the limited and somewhat reduced to formal emails we'll have going.

[GoingForIt_77]

Dako, she doesn't see me as a friend. She is hurting because she wants (wanted) more than just that with me, because of the good things I gave her, that no one else ever did. She knows that's irreplacable.

 

How do I found out if Dad is a chaperone or not? Cause if he's not, he may not need to be there and she may not object. Is there anyway I could broach that topic without it being perceived as me putting pressure on her?

[Dako]

You could tell her how small the bundle is so she can offer to come alone.

Give her the info and let her decide.

 

So sorry.

I didn't mean you were in the friend zone, just remembering an awkward meeting with my ex right after she left me. I was trying to recall the dynamics of the conversation to imagine what you may be facing.

 

She must also be hurting. I'd follow her lead to prevent misunderstandings.

 

Good luck, D.

You seem like a thoughtful man.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I don't think she should be alone with you.

 

If she wants someone with her you should accept that, she doesn't want to talk to you with more than emails, why would she feel comfortable with a face to face. Let her decide, her Dad is probably there for support as much as anything.

 

I think the saying "If you love something, let it go" applies to this situation very much. If you really love her, you will let her heal and do as she wants. If you make it so she comes alone, that's just a manipulation to get her to talk to you and "see the real you". She may not be ready for that, but she is the only one who can judge that.

[GoingForIt_77]

I just spent the last hour and 20 minutes chatting with her online. I saw her pop online at 3:10am and her name said "Can't Sleep" and so I emailed her right then and there and said if she is up for company and wants to chat, I can't sleep either. She replied saying she had been drinking and crying and that she didn't think that talking with me would be a good idea at all, but thanked me for the thought. I replied saying you might be surprised and she popped online. We started talking right way. She is still IN LOVE with me. She was crying. She did NOT want to take it to the phone, but wanted to continue to chat. She was sweet. She is HURTING. She is numb. I was agreeable and sympathetic the WHOLE way through. I asked her if she got my email. She said she did and wasn't sure if she was going to reply to it or not. She then went on to say that she didn't know if there was anything else to say and if a string of emails would be a good idea, but after that, she chatted with me for an HOUR. There were smiles. There were hugs. She said 2 times that she can't be with me even after I'm better. She doesn't understand why I couldn't have been good to her all the time and now she'll never have anyone, but I gave her a lot of encouragement and she listened. I spoke a lot about us and even got pretty bold with certain stuff and she listened (or read and waited patiently for more). By the end of the conversation she was OPEN with me and I asked her if she feels better and she said a bit and I said good and she thanked me. I gave her a rose icon. She said I still have the one you gave me! Then she said babe, you should go to bed. I told her she can call me anytime. She thanked me. We said goodnight.

 

Thoughts????

[TijuanaJones]

I wouldnt expect much of your conversation, specially because she had been drinking. My ex would say to me that I was the love of her life and she wanted to marry me ONLY when she was tipsy or drunk. We never made love being sober. Just let everything you said to her tonight "brew" in her head (no pun intended). dont call her or contact her, until she looks for you. That way you will know if your conversation had a positive effect on her. She obviously misses you, but is unsure if you are really what she needs. maybe she is afraid she is going to get hurt by you again... definitely wait for her to resume contact. dont force interaction between the two of you... she needs to do it at her own pace... (i hope everything I wrote makes sense, cause im tipsy and my first language is spanish haha) *hugs* hang in there!

[cordelia]

I've been in the same situation with my ex. He was hot and cold throughout the relationship and manipulative and had two sides to him. He could be the perfect loving b/f, and then a few days later be aggressive, condescending, and critical of every little thing I did. I was head over heals in love and I did absolutely anything for him and wanted to marry him.

But by the time we were done, it was over for good. My trust in him was completely gone and would never come back. He tried for over a year to convince me to trust him again, but it was too late for that.

Sounds like it could be the same for you guys, but you never know. You also have to be able to trust yourself not to do that to her again!

[Juha]

I am sorry you are hurting so much...

 

I agree with Cordelia... For a woman trust is everything...

 

She put everything into you and she just can't see herself doing it anymore or again... You have lost her trust in you and no matter how much she loves you once the trust is gone it probably will never get back to where it was...

 

Just going on my experience and what I have seen in others also...

 

There is nothing you can do to get her trust back in you, you just have to be you and take care of you... SHe will be around. I would not contact and give her space to heal and figure herself out...

SHe will have to give it a chance to come back and by what she has said and done that is not going to happen soon...

 

Also don't be pushing to talk, meet, or how much you have changed if she wants to do or see any of this she will...

 

I know one of the hardest things is to let someone go you love...

 

 

[GoingForIt_77]

Actually, this is the first time she had ever been tipsy or drunk at all with me. Alcohol never guided her to express her feelings for me.

 

Last night's MSN conversation was filled with her pain and hurt and clearly she loves me. she loves the good guy who took care of her and can't see past the other part. She said her head and heart won't let her. She kept saying like she feels so weak and that she gave up on us. I kept giving her support, telling her not to blame herself, while giving her encouragement of how special a person she is and how strong and courageous she is.

 

I could see that she wanted to just give in to her feelings. I can see that I was making it easier for her to want to do that. I was being everything she needed: A Sensitive, supportive, attentive, non-judgemental and calm guy, who was trying to make her feel loved and I know it got through, because I know her, but she still has that block.

 

Of course I'm not expecting that block to go away. I could only do things from a distance now and slowly try and earn her trust to repeated non-threatening communication, without it looking like I'm there all the time, because as soon as she feels that she is relying on it, she'll pull back in fear of falling back with me into a relationship. She is NOT mad at me. she does NOT hate me. She had nothing but love, but her hurt seems to cloud that other feeling.

 

My heart is going out to her because I love her. I know she needs a shoulder to cry on. I would love her to see me as a NEW guy and not one who is still capable of doing what he did.

 

I know she is wroking today and I have to pick up a cake to go to my mothers surprise b-day today and she works next door. I know she would not turn me away and I just want to hug her, but not it be a goodbye hug. The thing is, I KNOW that I can work on it. I'm still here. She is still there too, but her HURT is STRONG, just as my actions when in the relationship were as well. She helped me to realize that I no longer have to rely on that anymore. What can I do to help her realize that she no longer has to let her hurt and fear rule her and that it's safe?