Manipulation or am I just not good enough?

[cc2006]

Hello all,

 

Trying to ask my question and tell my story here ... see what you think.

 

 

My girlfriend and I have been together for a little over a year. We seem to fluctuate between happy and unhappy, depending on the day. It is hard, because I have a very small expectation level when it comes to relationships, while I feel she has high expectations. I feel like she wants her partner to meet her every need without asking ... and when she DOES ask, she wants those needs met with a smile.

 

I love her, and she means alot to me, but I'm growing very tired of the depression and self-doubt that comes from our relationship.

 

We do not live together. (If that matters.)

 

She is in her mid 20s, and I am a couple years older. She has always struck me as "immature" to a degree, but I never knew how much before we began seriously dating.

 

Our main problem (I feel) arises when I chose to NOT do something with her. I feel as a human being, and an adult, I should have the right to refuse to do something ... or chose another path for myself.

 

If she calls me at 9pm at night and asks me to come over (30 minute drive) and I opt not to she has a pity-party. I "don't love her enough". She "doesn't understand why someone who supposedly loves someone else wouldn't DREAM to get a 9pm phonecall asking them to come over and RUSH over without a thought otherwise". Her friend ____ would drive 3 hours every weekend after classes got out to be with so-and-so. She'd do it for *me* so why won't I do it for *her*, etc.

 

Basically ... in the end, I'd either end up going even if I didn't really feel like it, or I'd end up barely standing my ground and feeling like I was the biggest piece of poo in the world all night for NOT going over.

 

She has gone so far as to make comments about "taking some pills and sleeping forever" once upon a time to combat my supposed horrible attitude toward her.

 

I'm a nice person. I don't drink too much. I don't abuse drugs, people or animals. I don't hit or hurt. I don't verbally, emotionally, or physically abuse anything or anyone. Sure I can be a little 'cold' sometimes when I'm afraid of being hurt .. I shut down somewhat. I have anxiety issues ... I get uncomfortable around large groups of people (especially ones I don't know). I have low self-esteem issues ... everyone has their problems. In the end though, I'm a nice person.

 

 

.. skip to this week ..

 

Will I go on a 2-3 hour drive to visit her family for the upcoming holiday, was asked. I thought about it for a couple days, and decided that I did not really want to do so ... and I'd like to stay home and end up spending the holiday locally with MY family. I'm not really up to a 2-3 hour drive (each way) and a day with people that I do not fully feel comfortable with/around ... especially with my anxiety issues this week.

 

She became very upset at my "no". Her tone changes and she becomes instantly depressive. I don't "love her enough". She is thinking she should leave to find someone who fits her needs better (which makes me feel flawed, like something is wrong with me ... because I don't meet all her needs). I'm not "into her" enough supposedly.

 

She believes that if two people are in love they'll WANT to do everything with each other. She refuses to hear my side .. which is .. if two people are in love they'll compromise and each do little things they don't really WANT to do but will do for each other.

 

She feels if we're really "meant to be" then I should WANT to drive 3 hours to visit her family that I don't feel 100% comfortable around.

 

 

I'm just getting to the end of my rope here. If I be me, and say "no" when I want to and try to just have fun in the relationship I'm supposedly not good enough. I don't give verbal compliments enough (my family is not a verbal encouraging family .. I wasn't brought up like that at all) ... and I don't want to see her enough supposedly ... and I obviously make the wrong choices by telling her 'no' sometimes.

 

 

I'm just ... drained. I'm drained, I'm tired, and I'm hurting. Just so sick of struggling to prove I love someone and feeling like I have to walk on eggshells or risk upsetting and sending the person I love into a depressive spiral that drags me down too.

 

 

I have no clue what I'm expecting to hear from anyone here (if anything) but I already feel slightly better just typing this.

 

Thanks,

 

cc2006

[Ellie2006]

Hey there,

 

Don't mean to be harsh but she sounds a bit too demanding?

Re: spending the holiday w/ family: well, would she consider staying in town and spending the holiday with your family, then?

If she's not willing to do that, it's not right she expects you to drive 3 hours to spend the holiday w/ hers ...

 

Hmm... well, I'm sure your gf has a lot of good qualities too but just based on what I read, I don't blame you for feeling drained by the relationship ...

 

Vent away! We're here for ya!

[Kips]

Is there something in her past that makes her feel insecure? Being let down off friends, previous partners, family?

 

Or has she been spoilt and is used to being the centre of attention and expects it automatically?

 

Why can't she come to see you as appose to you going to her, if her need to see you is that desperate? (or is she like me a non driver?)

 

Whatever the root of her problem is, she sounds to me like shes emotionally blackmailing you.

 

A healthy relationship to me is being able to live apart, persuing your own hobbies/interests, compromise and so on.

 

Sorry I'm not really helping much.

 

Maybe you can trying putting aside your own anxiety and tell her how you feel. Communication is a key issue in relationships, I learnt that myself this week!

 

Vent away, sometimes getting it off your chest and expresing yourself can make you feel 100 times better.

[Siriana]

She is blackmailing you emotionally. And you are easy target for that.

[Boughtandpaidfor]

Basically ... in the end, I'd either end up going even if I didn't really feel like it, or I'd end up barely standing my ground and feeling like I was the biggest piece of poo in the world all night for NOT going over.

 

I went through this for 3 years at university- constantly trying to get some kind of equality in the relationship but basically being a slave to the other person's wishes. I dont really know why she did it- but I agree its a sign of insecurity- she may have a family which basically fights for attention and it kinda works because they're all doing it.

 

But its driving you mad because you dont communicate that way- but it's not you I dont think- I think she is very very selfish. My girlfriend dropped me like a piece of poo and found someone else as soon as she realised I wasnt bowing to her anymore. Best lesson I ever learnt- felt like an idiot at the time though. She just doesnt sound very considerate of your feelings, at least not in a very adult way, but it all sounds very needy and frustrating.

[cc2006]

She is blackmailing you emotionally. And you are easy target for that.

 

LOL .. you should like my therapist. .. but, I know, however harsh that sounds you're probably right.

 

As for me? .. you're right ... I'm an easy target. I grew up with a couple pretty crappy hardships in my childhood (but who didn't). One problem was that one of them made me basically lose my mother to severe depression for a while. I was an 8 year old who struggled like mad to make my mother NOT depressed. I didn't understand how it all worked, but just knew I couldn't stand seeing my mother like that ... and in the end I guess I just became one of those people that bends to emotional blackmail. After a while I 'wake up' and realize (usually with outside help) what is going on and try and fix it, but by then it is too late I guess.

 

 

 

Thanks for the replies all.

 

 

She is very insecure. She grew up a twin and I think she must have been the dominant one. I feel like shes looking for someone to hold her hand and do whatever she wants/feels like doing at the drop of a hat. She wants her twin sister with male genitalia maybe?

 

Weirdly enough I guess I attract people like this. I must have some scent that says "this is a good guy who won't stand up for himself much" and they lock onto me.

 

It is hard because she doesn't listen to reason. No matter how many times I try to explain things, it falls on deaf ears.

 

"It makes me feel bad when I feel like I cannot say 'no' to you. Saying 'no' shouldn't make me feel guilty" - gets replies like - "Well you make me feel bad by never wanting to do things with me."

 

Everything feels like it is just always about HER. Even when she says "we" or "us" it still feels about HER.

 

*Shrugs*

 

 

As for if she'd stick around here for the Holiday? No, she already made up her mind to go visit her family. I figured that was fine, since two people should be ABLE to be apart .. it is pretty much a requirement in healthy relationships to spend time apart.

 

She made sure she pointed out that last year she spent the Holidays around here (even though I firmly remember telling her she should go home for them, and never once did I ask that she stay in town .. she just decided to do so).

 

It becomes a weird competition for her ... ](*,) ... its like in her head she keeps track of things she does for me (I don't ask either ... I enjoy being semi-independent and don't ask her to do things for me often if at all) and throws them back at me when I tell her 'no'.

 

"Last year I stayed in town and did the holiday here because I love you, and you won't do the opposite for me ... you don't love me."

 

 

Still drained ... still tired ... but feel alil better

 

Thanks.

[Siriana]

LOL .. you should like my therapist. .. but, I know, however harsh that sounds you're probably right.

 

Weirdly enough I guess I attract people like this. I must have some scent that says "this is a good guy who won't stand up for himself much" and they lock onto me.

 

 

Ups, sorry for beeing rude. I knew that you know where the problem is, so I decided to say that in a simple and open way. To simple and straight forward

 

Yeah, she's an emotional blackmailer and you are continuing the same pattern that you've learned in your family. She's using her learned behaviour, you are using yours and of course it makes a perfect fit: you feel awfull when she manipulates, but you find that way of comunication familiar and it is hard to change that (I am glad you're trying to do that), she manipulates and for that she needs someone that can be manipulated....

Of course she was attracted to you and vice versa - your personalities click, if you were different person than she would have to find someone else she could use her methods on or to change her behaviour to match yours not easily blackmailed one. And the question is would you feel attracted to a girl who is unfamiliar to that methods.

 

You will know that you changed that when a certain girl who is not that way finds you attractive and vice versa.

 

I still remember one of my ex'es - it was a perfect example of this. It was all about him, his problems, things I told him that made him feel bad... it was never about him and his responibility. Always turning things I said in a way that they suit him... Well one day he completely crossed the line so I decided not to apologize and worry about his problems (he tried to persuade me I caused them). So I looked at him and I sad to him: You know I really dont give a... how you feel.On every little thing I do wrong you make a whole drama, but every time you make something bad it is not a reason to be hurt. So I really don't think you have a right to tell me anything about your feelings beeing hurt, because I couldn't care less.

Wow, that's been a surprise for him, he didn't manage to manipulate and he was furious.

Well after that time I never met a guy who was emotional manipulator. Looks like I was so determined never to come into that situation, that it happened never again.

 

 

About your gf - I am not advising you to do the same. I was very rude to my ex. But try using baby steps when she manipulates. Something will happen - she will put more energy into the same pattern of behaviour - and when she finds out that it's not working any more she will:

1. change her ways or

2. stay the same and leave you thinking how you don't love her.

 

About that holiday thing - are you shure you don't want to go just because there will be plenty people you don't know?

[cc2006]

Ups, sorry for beeing rude. I knew that you know where the problem is, so I decided to say that in a simple and open way. To simple and straight forward

 

Nah, I didn't take it as rude really. Your reply actually made me chuckle some.

 

Yeah, she's an emotional blackmailer and you are continuing the same pattern that you've learned in your family. She's using her learned behaviour, you are using yours and of course it makes a perfect fit: you feel awfull when she manipulates, but you find that way of comunication familiar and it is hard to change that (I am glad you're trying to do that), she manipulates and for that she needs someone that can be manipulated....

Of course she was attracted to you and vice versa - your personalities click, if you were different person than she would have to find someone else she could use her methods on or to change her behaviour to match yours not easily blackmailed one. And the question is would you feel attracted to a girl who is unfamiliar to that methods.

 

You will know that you changed that when a certain girl who is not that way finds you attractive and vice versa.

 

Yeah .. again .. my shrink says similar. It makes me wish we all had warning lables like dangerous items in life do. "Manipulator" "Unfaithful" "Snores & Stares at other women" ... you know? Maybe we wouldn't fall in love with people that are incompatible (or just plain wrong for us) if we had it spelled out up front. Nah, we probably still would.

 

I still remember one of my ex'es - it was a perfect example of this. It was all about him, his problems, things I told him that made him feel bad... it was never about him and his responibility. Always turning things I said in a way that they suit him... Well one day he completely crossed the line so I decided not to apologize and worry about his problems (he tried to persuade me I caused them). So I looked at him and I sad to him: You know I really dont give a... how you feel.On every little thing I do wrong you make a whole drama, but every time you make something bad it is not a reason to be hurt. So I really don't think you have a right to tell me anything about your feelings beeing hurt, because I couldn't care less.

Wow, that's been a surprise for him, he didn't manage to manipulate and he was furious.

Well after that time I never met a guy who was emotional manipulator. Looks like I was so determined never to come into that situation, that it happened never again.

 

Thanks for that. I appreciate it. Sometimes with the people I talk to about these things ... they look at me like I'm crazy ... or don't see her act like she does on the phone or in private with me so they find it hard to believe. It is nice to hear sometimes that I'm not the only one who has issues like this ... I feel like that sometimes.

 

About your gf - I am not advising you to do the same. I was very rude to my ex. But try using baby steps when she manipulates. Something will happen - she will put more energy into the same pattern of behaviour - and when she finds out that it's not working any more she will:

1. change her ways or

2. stay the same and leave you thinking how you don't love her.

 

Yeah ... I'm going to see if I can figure out how to break the cycle. It is tough, seeing as how I'm practically 'trained' to be the way I am and feed into it. Most of my life has been spent living like this, and to just up and alter my whole inner thought processs, reactions to situations, and way of .. well .. being ... just feels impossible most days.

 

About that holiday thing - are you shure you don't want to go just because there will be plenty people you don't know?

 

Well to be honest, no. There are a few reasons.

1.) Anxiety due to crowds of people, especially those I don't know well is a BIG one. I have a supply of anti-anxiety pills "just in case" but I hate taking them.

2.) No matter how much my family gets on my nerves, they're still my family ... so I'd rather not spend the holiday away from them, despite my complaints to others about them

3.) I feel safer near home. Basically, if anything goes wrong or I get stressed out or anxious I can sneak home to where I feel 'safe'. Being several hours away takes that away from me and leaves me completely vulnerable.

4.) Comments made by my family, i.e. "You're going to let that @%#& boss you around and make you spend the holiday with her?" do in fact get to me and make me wonder if her requests/demands are unreasonable. Not sure if thats replacing one manipulation with a counter-manipulation? I end up feeling like it is wrong to agree to go with her if I do not really WANT to do so .. because others around me feel that I'm being manipulated into doing it.

5.) I honestly "just don't feel like it" ... personal preference, really.

6.) It almost becomes a competition with myself sometimes ... seeing if I can say 'no' to her and stick to it. The harder she tries to convince me to do otherwise the more I feel that I should stand my ground and not give in ... and it spirals. Once I commit to saying 'no' I feel I'm spineless if I reneg on it later.

 

 

 

 

I dunno' ... I wish I wasn't programmed to be the way I was.

[Siriana]

ad.1. well you have them for these purposes don't you? I think it's nothing wrong to take them in order to do something that you can't do without them that is actually considered normal social behaviour (I don't have a need for them, but even for me it would be much more fun going to the dentist than on this holiday evening with my bf parents - I could use something herbal in that case.LOL but I would choose to go despite that)

 

ad.2,ad.3 and ad.5. are basically a product of ad. 1

 

ad.4. non of their business.

 

ad.6. if for the last holidays she stayed with you than you should be spending this year holidays with her.

[VeganBohemian]

Oh my God...I thought you were my boyfriend for a minute posting this about me lol.

 

Umm, that was just weird. My bf is supposed to come with me on a holiday next week too...and he sometimes thinks I am immature...we've been going out for a year...and his is estranged from his mother...and he has severe anxiety in crowds of people he doesn't know...

 

However, I am not a twin. Phew.

[VeganBohemian]

As for my advice...

 

I used to be exactly like your girlfriend. I took every thing my (ex)bf did and twisted it so somehow he wasn't doing good enough. Nothing he did was good enough. I wanted him to only be concerned about me and nothing else...because I thought that's what love was supposed to be. I was insecure (still am), paranoid, afraid, and obsessed with keeping him.

 

With my new bf (not really new I guess...we've been together a year) I am treating my irrational thoughts more so like little unwanted intruders that I just have to ignore. Sort of like OCD (which I used to have, not anymore).

 

I think you need to tell her straight up that a relationship is about give and take. It isn't about only thinking about your SO, or constantly have to appease the other person. Tell her you feel like you can't tell her things and that her behavior is actually damaging to being close and intimate.

 

I would advise you to go to her house for the holiday. If you love her, I think you should do that.

 

However, you should not have to constantly reassure her that you love her or come to her becking call just to prove something. She has to know this.

[cc2006]

Oh my God...I thought you were my boyfriend for a minute posting this about me lol.

 

Umm, that was just weird. My bf is supposed to come with me on a holiday next week too...and he sometimes thinks I am immature...we've been going out for a year...and his is estranged from his mother...and he has severe anxiety in crowds of people he doesn't know...

 

However, I am not a twin. Phew.

 

LOL ... freaky huh? Well, sorry to scare you "Its not you, its me" .. er no thats not right in this context ... I mean ... its not you, its her.

 

As for my advice...

 

I used to be exactly like your girlfriend. I took every thing my (ex)bf did and twisted it so somehow he wasn't doing good enough. Nothing he did was good enough. I wanted him to only be concerned about me and nothing else...because I thought that's what love was supposed to be. I was insecure (still am), paranoid, afraid, and obsessed with keeping him.

 

With my new bf (not really new I guess...we've been together a year) I am treating my irrational thoughts more so like little unwanted intruders that I just have to ignore. Sort of like OCD (which I used to have, not anymore).

 

I think you need to tell her straight up that a relationship is about give and take. It isn't about only thinking about your SO, or constantly have to appease the other person. Tell her you feel like you can't tell her things and that her behavior is actually damaging to being close and intimate.

 

I would advise you to go to her house for the holiday. If you love her, I think you should do that.

 

However, you should not have to constantly reassure her that you love her or come to her becking call just to prove something. She has to know this.

 

 

It is hard. She doesn't really listen to reason ... she lets her emotional state run away with her and it becomes nearly impossible to have a discussion with her at times. Once she slips from smiles to instant depressional monotone with little "you don't love me enough"s thrown in I feel like I've lost. Anything I say at that point gets twisted back at me, and anything I've *ever* said gets dragged up and thrown at me as well.

 

I *have* told her that her depressive moods, her insecurities, and her overall combative way of discussing things with me are damaging to the relationship. The more often (and worse) she slips into these tirades, the less time I want to spend with her despite my love for her. If I'm constantly forced to reassure someone over and over again about the same things I feel like a broken record. I get tired of it, and thereby tired of the relationship - because, frankly, the relationship *becomes* all about appeasing her insecurities. When I see them coming now, her moods, I just want to run and hide. I can't do anything about them, and I'm so very sick and tired of feeling like I have to baby her.

 

"I just want you to comfort me when I feel bad." Sure, thats great, but when I see you on your days off once or twice a week and you feel bad and depressive often why the heck am I doing this? Who wants to spend most of their time with their SO sitting in the dark holding them while they cry? Especially if the crying involved criticism about the one being supportive?

 

After a while I just give up and go 'cold'. I shut down and stop feeling *anything* for a period of time while I recharge and am able to deal with it again for a short time. Terrible, really, because it makes me miserable and unfeeling to life in general for a while, not just her, because I get so drained. I'm afraid I'm going to end up resenting her. I used to feel sorry for her when she was upset ... now I just get annoyed that she is doing it to herself again. She is her own worst enemy, beats herself up with insecurities and I have to pick up the pieces.

 

Just feels like I can't even break through to her. I can't seem to tell her anything she doesn't want to hear. She either refuses to listen, or twists it and throws it back.

 

 

 

Anyway ... I hear what you two are saying about going up (ugh, 6 hours in the car in a single day because she has to work the morning after) for the holiday with her. Wouldn't that be giving in? Isn't that, at this point, like giving the child on the supermarket floor throwing a tantrum the candy it wants just to make it stop?

 

.. and about her spending last year's holidays with me. Thing is, I told her she didn't have to. I told her *not* to. She did, anyway, stating that she just couldn't stand to be away from me (Which, by the way, is a common thing she uses to 'prove' that she loves me more than I love her - the fact that she can't stand to *not* be with me while I need/enjoy personal space and time away). I thought that sounded a little obsessive, but shrugged and knew I couldn't *force* another adult to go home for the holidays. "Whatever you wanna' do is fine then." So, she stuck around here and spent the time with me.

 

I don't ask people to do things for me unless it is totally necessary and I cannot figure out how to do it myself. I can't even think of something I'd ask my SO to do in any situation for me. So this feels like she pretty much volunteered to spend last year's holidays with me so now she has one up on me and I have to repay it.

 

Yeah I know ... my thought process is odd, isn't it?

 

 

Her and I just have different views on what a healthy relationship are.

[Ellie2006]

Hey CC,

 

May I ask if you are just venting or looking to see how you can change the situation? IMHO, something needs to change for this to become a healthy (?) relationship for both of you, and I am sorry to say, I don't think your gf will change (sorry for being negative) ...

 

I guess your two options are: take her and love her and accept her as she is

 

OR love yourself more and decide what is the best for YOU

 

Just my two cents worth ...

[Siriana]

Oh, I think you resent her too much. Have you considered braking up with her?

[cc2006]

Well .. venting and soaking in what everyone things, really.

 

 

I've considered ending things ... a few times, here and there. It kills me to think about it, really. No matter how annoyed I get by the way things are, it kills me to think about ending it.

 

 

 

 

So .. Ellie ... your post makes me feel like I'm doomed .. dooOOooOOooomed.

 

Something has to change to make it healthy ... but ... my choices are to just accept it (and not change anything) or leave.

[sinas777]

Hey,

 

I'm actually really similar to this girl, except instead of saying that "you don't love me" crap, I just get mad and blow up in his face. Earlier this year, I broke up with my bf b/c I basically got tired of him after treating him like crap. We were also in a car accident together, and I was pissed off because I thought I handled myself emotionally better than he did, and was mad that he couldn't. He was really depressed all the time, which made me feel that way, but instead of being patient and showing him love and assurance, I got pissed off and dumped him when I started to get really stressed at school. This is so horrible of me I know, but I'm saying this because I actually realized what I was doing. Back then I had no clue that I was doing these things. I thougth I was justified to feel this way. I realized I was stupid and wanted him back, thinking it would be easy and we could start back where we left off, but now he's hesitant, b/c he is afraid that I will leave him again. He basically thinks that I am self centered and only care about myself and everything pretty much revolves around me and school. He says I'm his boyfriend when it's convenient for me. This is all sadly true. I felt really bad when he said these things to me, but I realized it was true. After our first fight he shut down and had been like that ever since. By the way, his marriage with his parents was not great. His mom traveled all the time for work and was basically never there for him, ever. His dad ended up cheating on her and left her for another woman eventually. He also has 2 other brothers that are mentally handicapped and being the only son in his family that isn't, his family put a lot of pressure on him to do well in everything.

 

So anyway, I continued to get angry and annoyed at him for not standing up for himself. I didn't know that he was so afraid of doing anything that would offend me that he just shut down. So now, we are going through a lot because now that I want him back, but he says he needs some time think about how to get this fear out. He tells me that he's never relaxed around me, feels like he's walking on eggshells b/c and being careful of everything he says and does around me. This to me is horrible, I never wanted him to feel like this. I want him to be free and be himself around me, and for us to be happy so I'm trying to figure out what I can do to change that, if it's not too late.

 

I have prayed a lot and tried to find out why I'm like this. I grew up in a household where I got no attention and there are 4 of us. I was always the quiet and chubby and not the pretty one when compared to my other two siblings. I was also extremely shy in school and was taken advantage a lot by so called friends. I got used a lot. I grew up and in college, became more assertive because I didn't ever want to feel that way again about myself and get pushed around. I have pretty much done a 360 and am a nice girl, but can also be really rude and selfish a lot of times. Especially in relationships. I have this horrible gift of finding hurtful things to say to the ones that I love. I have also become more attractive and slimmer. To tell you the truth, I don't think much of myself and am VERY hard on myself. When you don't love yourself, you cannot love others, trust me I know.

 

I'm sure your gf was not the dominant one if she was a twin. She was probably submissive and grew into the dominant one to avoid feeling bad about people pushing her around. I was also sexually abused by my older sister for years. She was sexually abused as well by a family friend, which is why she started to abuse my younger sister and I. But I had it the worst because we were closer in age. This, I have never told anyone, but I think this is important to say in this case. So I used to try to act tough and intimidate others, making others feel how I feel (bad about myself), but now, I am and I'm trying to reverse things a little. I don't want to be a selfish hurtful person. I realize now that I sabotaged all my relationships. I also noticed that I always chose the same guys. The ones who liked to give me all the control thinking that they liked it when the woman 'wore the pants' in the relationship. Well I found out there IS a breaking point and its my fault all my ex's eventually shut down on me. It's to avoid me hurting them again.

 

Anyway, your girlfriend is not going to change if she doesn't see anything wrong with herself. There is nothing you can say that will put reason in her. It is something that she has to eventually recognize and change on her own. If she ever realizes this, maybe you can help her change. She's acting like that because she needs attention that she didn't get when she was younger. Because you give it to her, she gets her power from that. You need to tell her what you really think of her if you love her and want her to change. Then let her go for some time so hopefully she can realize what she is doing. If not, she won't ever change and you will be forever miserable. Trust me, b/c I'm that girl.

 

As for you, you have to change too. Because you have shut yourself down in the relationship, you gave her all the power, which she loves. She makes all the decisions and now that you want to start wearing the pants again, it's really hard because she is used to wearing the pants, and also because you LET her. For things to change, you need to start pleasing yourself, and also know that it is okay to say no and have her get mad at you. Sure you may get punished, but u punish her enough and she will either change for the better (if she loves you) or leave you(if she does, she's not ready to change or good for you). If she leaves you, or you leave her, you gotta stop picking women like her or you will never be happy. We get into these habits and as dangerous as they are, we can't help but repeat the same cycle. The only way to freedom is to break these dangerous cycles! Good luck to u!

 

What advice can you give me to get my bf to stop feeling like he can't be himself about me. I have promised to him that I now know I was doing him wrong and will make EVERY effort change. The problem is half solved when you realize you have a problem. I want him to be happy with me and I want US to be happy because we DO love each other so much. How can I reassure him now or what things does he want to hear from me to make him feel better? Since you are similar to my bf, I would love to hear from your point of view. Thanks in advance.

[Ellie2006]

So .. Ellie ... your post makes me feel like I'm doomed .. dooOOooOOooomed.

 

Something has to change to make it healthy ... but ... my choices are to just accept it (and not change anything) or leave.

 

CC2006,

I sincerely apologize if my post made you feel bad

It was NOT my intent at all!

 

Venting is good and this is definitely the place to do it!!

Keep venting away ... we're here for ya!

 

And I agree w/ you that what you want to do re: your relationship should be carefully thought over ... I think Sinas777 gave you some good advice, by the way ...

 

Take care!

[cc2006]

CC2006,

I sincerely apologize if my post made you feel bad

It was NOT my intent at all!

 

Venting is good and this is definitely the place to do it!!

Keep venting away ... we're here for ya!

 

And I agree w/ you that what you want to do re: your relationship should be carefully thought over ... I think Sinas777 gave you some good advice, by the way ...

 

Take care!

 

LOL nooo .. you didn't make me feel bad. Most people I consult with tell me "she won't change unless she wants to" or "you can't change her" (which are both true) ... but that usually leaves me holding the bag and looking around wondering what is left then? Live with things the way they are and suffer sometimes, or leave and suffer for a hopefully short time. Sounds like a 'lose/lose' situation most days.

 

 

 

sinas777,

 

Wow. Thanks for sharing. I feel so saddened by some of the stuff you've gone through, but also happy to see you're turning it around and moving forward with a positive outlook for things. That can be so hard sometimes, to put your foot down and make a stand and decide that you want a change and do what it takes to make it happen.

 

I know I'm in a 'cycle' with women like my girlfriend. I guess we're all attracted to things that are familiar to us, and even if they're a BAD familiar we still feel drawn to it.

 

I sit here some nights and just think about how hard it'd be to leave her because I really do love and care about her very much, and because I have fears of being completely alone. I do, though, believe that *could* be the best thing for both of us as individuals, even if it meant the end of 'us'. I could take time to work on my own issues, and she would either recognise she has some of her own or would go on to try and track down someone that better fits her Disney-esque version of a relationship where everything is 'perfect'.

 

My girlfriend and I broke it off for a couple weeks back during the spring. I had basically just had enough and couldn't do it any longer. The whole time she had no idea that I was so upset and couldn't see what I was complaining about. I called her selfish, self-centered, self-hating and a few other things I can't remember offhand. It was the first time I'd raised my voice to her (or at all in years really) and she was completely blown away by it.

 

In the end we (obviously) got back together but I haven't been "completely in it" this entire time. I've been guarded with my feelings, and hesitant to spend alot of time with her or make any big changes (moving in, etc). I'm scared too, like your boyfriend is. I'm scared things will warp back to the way they were (she used to be worse) and afraid to get "too deep" into the relationship where it'll either hurt so much more to end things, or I'll be financially buried in it (moving in, etc) and it becomes a mess getting out. Trying to protect myself I guess.

 

Hmm ... as for what I'd like to see/hear to make things easier on me. The fact that you admitted you had an issue, and promised to work on it means the world. It'll be slow going though, I'm sure, healing takes time. Reassuring him that things are different now, and will be different from now on. Try and have fun and enjoy your relationship and he should come out of it. Its amazing how quickly I forget about the crappy fights, depressive grumpyness she throws at me, etc, when we have a good/fun couple days without incident. I *want* to have a good time and a healthy relationship, so I keep trying for that.

 

Our biggest problems is communication (whose isn't?). Alot of the time if things were just said a little different, or in a different tone, it'd make a world of difference. Sometimes it just takes learning *how* to talk to your boyfriend/girlfriend to say the same thing you wanted to say, only in a better fashion so the point gets through.

 

I know its corny, and I felt odd doing it, but when she was over last night I sat her down and asked if we could re-have the holiday conversation all over again, but this time I'd tell her *how* to say what she wanted to say so it'd be a fair conversation.

 

Instead of "do you want to go with me ..." followed by depressive near-crying if I said no - I suggested "Would you please ..." and/or "It would mean alot to me if you'd ..." I told her I didn't feel it was fair that I was punished for saying 'no', and just the way she words things seem unfair at times. I felt like she decided what SHE was doing for the holiday, then invited me as a tag-along in the end. I'd have much rather we both sat down, as a couple and equals, and talked about it before coming to a decision. I'm 100% positive that had I felt like I had a say in the discussion I'd have agreed to go see her family (because I'd realize how important it was to her and would feel as if I was choosing to do something that made her happy, as opposed to being *forced* to do something I didn't want to doto avoid making her unhappy) as a couple instead of feeling like I'm a purse to be packed in the car and brought along without being allowed to have a feeling. I guess I just want some respect, above all.

 

Trying to get it more about us when we do things together and less about her or me.

 

Sinas, if you two really do love each other and you're both trying to fix things for the better then he should be able to see that and come around.

 

I wish I could think of something more profound to say about it right now, but I'm not sure what *I* want/need to hear most the time I'll think about it and see if I come up with anything more

[caro33]

This sounds like a painful experience, which is not exactly what any of us want from a relationship hey!

 

I agree with the other posters that you basically need to renegotiate the basis of power for each of you in this relationship. For all sorts of worthy and/or understandable reasons you have found yourself with someone who seems to be in a habit of emotionally blackmailing you. Perhaps she believes this is the only ways she gets 'heard' by you, who knows.

 

She also sounds like several of the people who post on ENA so I think it would be terrific if they read your post and you read their posts, because it might help people get where the other side is coming from!

 

But for your own situation, I think that it is about identifying what you need from one another, and articulating it clearly. Yes, it's about communication, but there are heaps of different ways to try and communicate. For example, this might make you both a bit self-conscious, but you could perhaps make it a task for each of you to write down:

 

(a) The top five things you each value in life, such as independence, love, support, financial comfort, relaxation, alone time, family, sports etc.

(b) The top five things you each need from a relationship.

© The top five things you appreciate about one another generally.

(d) Top five things the other person specifically does for you that you enjoy, all those little things.

 

Then find some quiet time together to go through each of your values lists, and discuss what you mean. Any discrepancies between the lists that tap into where one of you feels let down might help explain all that, and help you come to a compromise. It all helps understand where the other person is coming from. (I wouldn't write lists about what you aren't getting from the other person, but raise this gently in a positive way while you are talking.)

 

And if the answers and discussion identify major chasms in your alignment and capacity to be with one another, pay attention. Some values issues cannot be fixed or papered over.

[turqoise]

Heylo,

I read your post and felt like I`ve been your girlfriend too. So, to add to Sinas` helpful insight, here`s how I have changed, and how I did it.

 

I acted similarly with my second boyfriend (Mike) of 3 years. Since then I`ve had 3 relationships, each less than a year. Mike was my first serious boyfriend, I knew he wasn`t the One, but I liked him enough to be with him. I found it hard to trust people, and because he was sweet, I opened up to him about how I had a fear of being abandoned by my friends. It was after that, that I wanted to share every depressed feeling I had. Sometimes he would be able to handle me, and other times, like you, if he happened to say something even slightly `wrong` it would trigger crying etc. This got more frequent, until we finally broke up.

 

I may have manipulated him emotionally, but without realising it as i was so caught up in myself...and just very recently I think I have found the root of the problem. I think there were two, actually:

 

1. That we were just not right for each other. As much as we liked (and told each other we loved) each other, I knew at the bottom of my heart that he wasn`t someone I could trust with my life, or who I could find both fulfillment and freedom with. I just distracted myself because I wanted the comfort so much. Looking back, I would have tried harder to be honest to myself, and break up with him.

 

2. I was very insecure. I recently realised that it started when I was about 2 years old, being abandoned in a sense by my parents. My whole life (without really realising) I went through life thinking I was alone and it was me against the world. I had a shield though which I would not even let parents or friends through. In effect, I WAS alone. Imagine then, meeting someone, who by definition is supposed to be the person you can confide, trust in, and love and love back? You think that person is your brother-in-arms, that you will no longer battle life alone, but have somewhere to show your weakness, rest and still be loved. So in my case (and it sounds so similar to your girlfriend), I demanded a lot from him, and felt rejected very easily and utterly when he said no.

 

The solution to no2, which I recently found, was this. I realise I was seeking the type of comfort I needed in the wrong person. The kind of comfort I needed was everything I had wanted from my parents - unconditional love, support, always being there, easing pain, without being expected anything in return - the kind of dependent love a child has. My parents and I talked a few days ago about this, and it came out as pent up tears, and I realised just how fndamentally it tied in with my insecurity. It was thanks to identifying the root of my insecurity that has changed me to be able to face my next relationship as someone who can have a non-dependent relationship. I wonder if it would help your girlfrend to do the same.

[cc2006]

Update: (The good & very bad)

 

 

Well, I went for the Holiday with her to visit her family. Obviously most of my fears were unwarranted. I usually know they are, but it is still hard to break away from them. Even when I tell myself over and over that I'm just working myself up and I need to stop worrying.

 

We had a good time. It wasn't great for me, but I managed. I just feel so out of place with her family. So much like I do not belong. I'm a city guy, and they're rural. In the end though, I felt like she had a good time and everything was as it should be.

 

 

I spent a couple more days over at her place after that. The day after the holiday she moved into a new, better, apartment. I helped her move over the course of two days. Several truckloads of furniture, carloads of clothes ... got her all moved in and everything seemed happy. She was very happy with her new place, and happy to spend several days with me (Wednesday afternoon & night I stayed over, the whole Thursday holiday, the Friday 'moving day', the Saturday until 10pm finishing moving her stuff and spending time with her ... then I went home .. never left her side the whole time we were together).

 

She works the week, and we get to this weekend. She calls me up and is feeling sick and run down. Tired all the time and just plain ill. Might be flu, not sure. I told her if she wants to come over to my place after work I'll make her some soup (its homemade) and sit in bed with her. She declines, because shes "just too tired and sick" and wants to go home, but asks me to drive over there. I decline.

 

Today ... she calls, still feeling sick. We talk for a bit and by the end of the conversation (which was not bad in the least - trust me) she sounds depressive and down. I can tell, so I let her go so she can "get some stuff done".

 

She showed up here at 10:15 at night, crying. Needed to talk. After a two hour conversation of her telling me we just aren't compatible and me feeling like I'm a failure she left. Our relationship is no more. Weird thing is, I'm not crying (at least right now). I shed a few tears while she was here and we were talking, but most times I'd have a breakdown and be a mess.

 

I feel, personally, like I was a "waste of her time". I've been told that a time or two before when relationships ended, and she said nearly the exact same thing.

 

"I feel like we're moving in different directions ..." & "Do you ever think of 'what is next' for us? Marriage or kids or ... " & the always good "I just want those things in my life and feel like being with you isn't getting me closer to them" -- that one, paraphrased, is why I feel the 'waste of time' about myself.

 

Know what? I do think about kids. Marriage? Not so much ... I don't really believe in it the way other people do. It is not the time for either of those things in my life though, I'm going back to school after a 10 year 'recess' and attempting to start over on a degree that I wish I got waaaay back when I graduated highschool. I have stuff on my plate worth worry'n about going on RIGHT NOW, as opposed to pondering kids and marriage right now. The other problem is my relationship with her was weirdly rocky at times so I never really concentrated on thinking/planning those things with her. Why should I get myself worked up thinking putting marriage or kids into a relationship that feels like any day now it could collapse without much warning (like tonight!).

 

She even brought up how she "really needed me because she was sick and needed someone to take care of her" .. but I "refused to be there for her". I pointed out that I spent several days with her at her apartment just a few days earlier and that the frequency she spends at mine has dwindled to *maybe* once every 3 weeks or so ... and she brought up the whole "that doesn't matter, you should have wanted to come take care of me" stuff I expected.

 

 

So, now it is 12:30 at night. I'm alone with my dog, sad internally beyond belief (but not outwardly showing it). Sunday night/Monday morning ... so everyone I know is sleeping, and the people I usually talk to online aren't on right now.

 

I'm alone, and feeling rather wounded.

 

 

I told her, before she left (admidst the multitude of hugs she kept starting while in tears) that "no decision is final" and maybe after some time off she'd realize what she was giving up and contact me again. I told her that maybe this is the best thing for us ... time off ... or maybe even permenent breakup. I also told her there would be no "break-up sex" like last time we ended things. She kept showing up and I'd break down and we'd sleep together. I was cutting it off now.

 

A year of my life. I spent a year of my life with her, trying to understand her. Trying so hard at times to be what she wanted me to be, because I never felt like I was good enough. In the end, I'm left with a few memories that hurt to think of and a couple of her things I have to figure out how to get back to her because she forgot them. lol

[caro33]

I'm sorry that you feel so low.

 

I know it's no help to you right now, but from your original post it was clear that you were doing a lot for the relationship, but that you guys had different views about relationships and how they work.

 

It's rotten being on the receiving end of this stuff, particularly when you tried so hard to do the right thing. However I think that from reading what you have been going through that you truly were not compatible. Good relationships are not about tip-toeing around the other person's ego and esteem issues.

 

Look after yourself, take care. I swear to you that there's a woman out there who is waiting for you to pick yourself up, get past this, and get to meeting her already.

[cc2006]

Thanks caro,

 

Weird, but it feels good hearing that (reading that? lol) even though we all know thats the standard, time-tested response. I don't have anyone that I can call and talk to right now so you were the first to get to me, and I thank you for your kind words

 

 

Maybe I'm not totally hurting and depressive (yet) because I had a feeling this was going to happen. I've been clinging to the hope that we'd just suddenly "get" each other and somehow become more compatible. One day she'd realize "hey, this guy is worth it" and "maybe my standards are a little too high for a healthy relationship" and would bend some toward me, making it easier for me to comprimise and end up happy together. Maybe she'd suddenly grow up. I dunno, I'm sure I probably have some growing to do too.

 

It just sucks, to be blunt. I feel like a failure. The one thing going on right now in my life that could make the world a better place to live in and its gone. Where is the hate? Where is the anger? Those I can deal with. Breakups because of cheating or drug abuse or horrible mistreatment. Breakups from massive fights or insults. I've honestly never done this "I'm sorry but we can't do this anymore, goodbye" with tears and hugging before.

 

I've never had to say goodbye to someone I still loved and cared about.

 

 

Again, thanks for stopping by my little sad slice of enotalone to say 'keep your chin up' though, it made me smile

[candy604]

your being taken advantage..you need a break from the relationship. that's too demanding of her

[bitbit]

she's using guilt to manipulate you. it's not fair. and if *she* would make the thrity minute drive for *you* why don't you ask her to do it next time she calls and asks you to. then you can tell her she doesn't love you enough. the only way i've found that my boyfriend understands what hurts and bothers me is by doing it to him and then telling him after the experiment is over what was really going on. give her a taste of her own medicine and stop caving. you're in a relationship, not grad school.... you don't have to be her slave.