About appropriate office relations

[anonymous coward]

Hi forum viewers, really glad you're there.

 

I'm totally confused about what to make of my girlfriend's relationship with some of her coworkers. I really trust her completely, but don't trust her managers or other coworkers at all-- and I have reason.

 

I have no idea how I did it, but my girlfriend is gorgeous. She's also extremely friendly and smart, and, unfortunately, naive. There have been three or four occasions over the past year when she'd be telling me about a guy who she'd become friends with, I'd be questioning his intentions, she'd get defensive, and then a few weeks later it would turn out I was right, that he wasn't just trying to be her friend and what not. (Some surprise Valentine's gifts, hug requests and invitations to go on dates, things of that sort.)

 

About 4 weeks ago she started telling me a little bit about one of her managers, 30 years old, handsome, fast-track type, speaks french-- she mentioned he had been putting some pressure on her to go out to office-party type things because she never usually went and he wanted to get to know her better. I asked her why he couldn't get to know her in the office. She said I was overreacting. She never went, but came really close over Halloween to going to a costume party that he really, really wanted her to go to. Then he started asking her to go jogging with him, she never went. Now he still gives her apples every day, which she takes. He also tries to impress her by writing to her in Korean (she's korean) and, upon hearing the news that she was going to transfer to another department (same floor though) he wrote her some emails saying nothing but the words "don't go". She confronted him and made sure he knew she had a boyfriend, and his response was: "yeah, I guess I do know." She then told him not to worry about her transfer and that she'd still be on the same floor so he could stop by to chat or whatever any time. (Isn't it amazing that she tells me everything like this? Lucky, and unlucky at the same time.)

 

She continually reassures me and always tells me how much she loves me and that I'm the one for her, that I'm all she thinks about and so on. But this sort of thing has happened before where guys think they have a chance and act on it, and it leaves me wondering about how it is that they keep getting the courage to pursue her like this, knowing that she has a boyfriend. (I should mention that we're doing long distance by the way-- I see her about every 3 weeks until I finish grad school.) I'm secure about myself, and I know we're in love, but I'm also realistic, and I know that some guys just seem to know how to win a girl over, maybe even break up a relationship. Some guys are just real ladiesmen and can impress any woman. I hate knowing that they see her as a potential, and I hate knowing she somehow lets them see it that way.

 

You know what I mean? It's like, I trust her completely, but I just can't settle my mind about why she gets all this attention all the time unless she's somehow sending signals to them... and some of you may say "well, as long as she doesn't do anything with them" but at the same time it's making it so hard for me, i'm seriously hurting, and it also seems so disrespectful of her to not be more upfront with these guys to the point where they won't try anything.

 

And now, in her new job, she's been telling me about her new manager, another 31 year old guy (she's 25), handsome, successful, single, cocky. She'll be working in the same pod as he, and she's probably going to have to travel with him from Canada to California once a month or so. This tuesday they're driving to tour a motor plant together.

 

It's driving me crazy and it hasn't even happened yet.

 

I've tried hard not to act the typical jealous boyfriend because i've seen those guys and I think they're unfair. But I feel like somehow, with this stuff always happening, she's being unfair to me in how she deals and behaves towards them.

 

She goes out to lunch with her male coworkers and previous managers and stuff. I never had a problem with it, but now I really wonder about what sort of working relationship they have... i found out the other day that they do talk about personal things... like relationship stuff, which seems very unprofessional to me, especially between opposite sexes.

 

I really love this girl, I know long distance sucks, but I just feel like she's unknowingly creating all these potential problems. And, along with my heart and health, it's hurting my career and studies to be worried and hurt all the time about it.

 

What do you think? I'm I being ridiculous for hurting so much, or should she reexamine how she acts towards her coworkers? I'm not asking her to stop talking to them or not to grab a coffee once in a while. Just to be more... just to honor me and our relationship more and make it clear enough to her male coworkers that she's made her choice, that it's me, and leave them convinced of it.

 

Thank you all so very much, god bless you-- it's seriously driving me crazy (it's 7am, haven't slept at all because of this-- our last conversation was about her new manager--- )

 

(damn, sometimes I think I sound like a damn fool about all this.)

[Daligal83]

I can see how this would all bother you, but I think you need to leave it at that. She needs to be able to form some sort of relationship with her coworkers. I know at my internship, we all talk and have fun, go out to lunch, talk about our lives. And if she is talking about her personal life, I'm sure that includes you. So she probably is making them aware of you. It's not her fault if they aren't getting it. With her new boss, there's not much she can do. If she has to travel with him for work, then that's what she has to do. Unfortunately, you can't stop guys from hitting on your girlfriend. All she can do is not encourage it. I might be wrong, but that's how I see the situation.

 

Maybe look at it this way..they might want her, but you definitely have her.

[Batya33]

It's hard to give advice because it's a case by case basis as far as what is normal between coworkers. Obviously anything that involves sexual contact or sexual comments is not but with respect to comments I have heard of offices where flirting goes on constantly and it means nothing on either side (I wouldn't like that).

 

I had to smile though because my bf would say the same at times about me - that I am naive about level of interest. However, I promise you - and you know this - that since you trust her it doesn't matter what "they" do. I would tell her though that if inappropriate comments are made or she is invited on what seems like a date she can ask polite questions to make sure everything is on the up and up.

 

An example - about 11 years ago when I was about 28, my bf and I worked at the same large company. A guy came from another office of the company -out of town - to work at our office for awhile. I knew he had a serious girlfriend (he told me). I assumed back then that "of course" he couldn't be hitting on me - he had a gf. My bf never trusted him - and I thought that was silly. The guy and I got to talking about seinfeld and I innocently invited him over to watch that night's episode (note - I had no interest in him romantically, was completely loyal to my bf). The day of the planned evening, he says "well I packed some boxers in case things go well." I remember being shocked (of course I wouldnt' be know) and I quickly cancelled the invitation. (yes, he married the woman by the way).

 

and - for what it's worth, I am intelligent (street smart too!! ;-), educated, 100% professional - I simply didn't realize there could be that kind of motive, back then. But, the point is, that nothing happened because there was no way I was going to let anything happen, same as your gf.

 

also be careful not to act like her "father" and imply that she is naive - it won't work anyway. If possible, why not tell her not to tell you every little thing that goes on - since you trust her then you know nothing will happen and hearing about it - esp. long distance - may just aggravate/stress you too much and provoke you to "tell her what to do" too much of the time.

 

hope that was helpful.

[anonymous coward]

Thank you Daligal83, that makes good sense to me. I *do* have her. I guess I really just need to suck it up. I can't wait for this long distance to be over-- but it will be another two years.

 

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

[anonymous coward]

Thank you Batya33-- that was very helpful as well. I know it doesn't do anyone any good to point out naivety, especially since she's a professional herself. I haven't really harped on her about it-- I'm sure she's able to see what the pattern has been like with guys she's friendly with... I just wonder why, if she knows it tends to happen, does it keep happening... she must know it makes it hard for me.

[anonymous coward]

Actually, also, Batya33-- the thing is that the guys she even associates with at all in her workplace tend to be really smooth. I think they know that if they ever made some sort of sexual allusion, she'd probably never talk to them again. So they go the "just want to get to know you better" and be "good friends" route, but it's backfired for her (and me, indirectly) when they take her friendliness as a sign of interest. Guys suck, man. So many of my gender are like predators, or something.

[Daligal83]

I'm glad I could help I feel your pain on the long distance. I'm doing that too and can't wait until it's over. PM me if you ever need to talk about it!

[anonymous coward]

And it makes so much sense to me, about her I mean. I was friends with her for years before we started our relationship, and I used to think she was interested in being more than friends probably long before she actually was.

 

Also, she's had a guy stalking her, sort of, about a year ago. Police involved and everything. He thought she led him on, or something, and couldn't get over the fact that she wasn't interested in any more dates. I was just friends with her at the time, but I could sort of see how a guy could take her the wrong way... no way I'm justifying stalker-type stuff, just saying that, to a degree, I understood *how* she could have that sort of problem.

[itsallgrand]

Date someone who isn't naive and who lives in your area. C'mon! This is just silly.

 

Life is too damn short.

[anonymous coward]

Hey Daligal83-- I don't know how to PM, but yeah-- could definitely use the anonymous feedback once in a while on the distance thing I bet. I really don't have a good female perspective on the situation-- my few female friends think I'm crazy for flying up there every 3 weeks! Talk about a lack of support

[Batya33]

Now that you've given more details my impression is that she might be giving off "vibes" that she is interested and she also should make sure to dress conservatively. It's not her "fault" at all but she can lessen the chances that this will happen.

[anonymous coward]

hey itsallgrand, totally-- in the ideal world, yeah. But goes the other way too, you only live once, so despite the cost/trouble of long distance, why not give it a shot? I guess that's how I managed to decide to go for it... though I know it sounds silly. I really do know.

[anonymous coward]

Hey Batya, yeah. She's really fashion-oriented (unlike me)-- it's part of her culture, it seems. All her female friends dress up for work every day and they're so critical of each other around fashion stuff. She doesn't dress provokatively, but she wears a bit of make up and always seems to look stunning-- I'm sure that's part of it. She's also just really easy going, easy to make laugh and so on. You know, I think she just naturally makes guys feel good, just talking to her.

[Batya33]

Culture or not, it's best to accommodate to the office culture, don't you agree? What I would wear on a weekend is tpyically different from what I'd wear to the office. I am not suggesting that she dress differently just take the mindset that you have to conform to the office culture when it comes to what is seen as appropriate and professional. It could be she stands out and, again, that is not her "fault" but it makes it more likely that she will get unwanted attention. It also sounds like she is not willing to report these incidents. To be honest, I probably wouldn't be either - unless it was serious harassment - but it sounds to me that her office environment is not too professional.

 

I guess I haven't helped much - I wish you luck with the relationship - this issue seems like it doesn't even approach anything major, much less a red flag.

[Juliana]

Please don't think she's sending signals. I had this happen to me all the time -- some guys I actually defended to my husband after he warned me what was going to happen. I don't mind that he tells me they're hitting on me. He's pretty smart. But I'm confident and outgoing, and I open up quickly to people. These are good qualities, and I'm not ashamed of them, and I am not sending signals -- unless the signal is "bugger off," because I have never cheated on my husband, and I've had everything from guys who've made a months-long career out of getting to know me, to guys who basically just chase me down the street ( get back in your cave, there, Igor). I've had a couple of guys who used to ritually leave gifts at my door and run away. I don't know what they thought was going to happen there, but thanks for the cd's, guys.

 

Part of what I love about my husband is that he saw "me" first, not the potential to get with me. If my husband ever, ever once, suggested to me that I needed to change so that men wouldn't "get the wrong idea," well, I wouldn't be married to him. It's that simple. Because what that says is, "honey, I love you, but I think people think you're a big easy sl*t." Imagine if your girlfriend said to you, "do you have to dress so nicely all the time? It makes people think you're gay."

 

If you can't handle the attention she gets from other men, consider whether or not you can be with her. But do not tell her you think it's her fault, or you'll find out right smartly what it's like to be one of those guys who chases her, but can never have her.

[anonymous coward]

Bataya33-- I guess it's not a red flag compared to other posts here. I just find myself thinking very weak thoughts about the situation because of how I'm feeling, especially knowing that now she's going to be spending all this time around her new manager, and I that I already know what he'll be thinking (like so many others). In my delerium, I was thinking about maybe starting to tell her that I was having lunches with young, pretty, female coworkers of mine (which I'm not), and telling her about when girls ask me over, just as friends, to watch a movie or something. I know it's lame and shallow. But a part of me just wants her to know how I feel, and that maybe if she did, she'd see her behavior differently about being so amenable to the guys around her.

 

I know that will only cause problems though.

 

It seems like I will have to endure it if it's going to work. If I cause her to feel like she has to endure similar things coming from me, then we'd both just be enduring hardship, and the relationship would have some major odds.

 

My court, I know.

 

I guess that leaves me to ask Juliana-- if your husband constantly gave other beautiful girls the wrong ideas, and they were always caused to think that a possibility existed to be in a relationship with him, and were thereforeeee always trying to please/impress him, and give him things, make him food or be just be really caring and be there at the drop of a hat and so on, you wouldn't feel the slightest bit concerned about their intentions, even though you still trusted your husband? Do you not think that the "drop of a hat I'll do anything!" sort of friend should be reserved for your place in his life, rather than for you AND a handful of other beautiful, interested, persistent girls?

[anonymous coward]

Holy! Rodeo-Rider, that's the best idea of the day by far. At least I think it might be. But... maybe not actually. Geez. So I meet some of the guys who keep doing what they can to impress her, give the firm handshake and... could I handle it. Wow. In a way it makes perfect sense. I've never met any of these guys (long distance-- I go for weekends usually) and maybe if they knew me it would make it more real to them that my girlfriend is happily taken. At the same time, I have to wonder if my girl would see that as some sort of insecure posturing. What if they squeeze my hand back hard. Then I will hate them-- and they, or he, will still know that he gets to be with her every day (and even take trips) and he'll know that I'll be gone again in a couple days for another few weeks, where he can do what he can.

 

Man. Man, man, man. I must sound really weak now, but I am HATING this whole thing.

[anonymous coward]

Nah, Ellie, I see what you're saying. But I do think that she unintentionally misleads guys-- otherwise she wouldn't have had the recurrent moments of discomfort: "you do know I have a boyfriend, right?" "Yeah, I guess I do." Not a convining answer, and historically it doesn't seem to really matter to them.

 

Insecure... maybe that's all it is. I guess that's sort of what I'm asking you guys to straighten me out on. I'm not relly insecure physically--I felt I should be humble when stating that my girlfriend is gorgeous-- but maybe insecure in that I can hang on to her while she undergoes the barrage, and while I spend less than 1/10th as much time with her as her interloping coworkers do, and it's been her decision to entertain them in their trials, at my emotional expense.

[anonymous coward]

Yeah, I know. It seems like this always happens to me-- I've been overseas for a couple years where I tried to make LDRs work (half-heartedly, I guess) and I NEVER thought that when I moved back to the US the FIRST thing I'd do is start another LDR. Gaaaaa.

 

Quite suckily, it will be at least 2 years while I finish grad school, unless she decides to move down to the US, which, seeing how much she loves her job in Canada, doesn't seem likely. If I keep flying up every three weeks or so as I have been, then by time we can live together it will only have cost 2.3 drillion dollars. So, that's good.

[Honey Pumpkin]

Hi there,

 

Just scanned through this post really quickly. Your girlfriend sounds lovely, actually. I think we've all met people like this - gorgeous, friendly, and too nice for their own good! I think it's fine - you've said yourself that if any of the Mr Smoothies made any sexual suggestions to your g/f, she would be off like a shot. I think you just have to maybe chill out (easier said than done), and remember that she's with you because she wants to be with YOU. Be supportive but not jealous - as someone above said, you cannot turn into her father!

 

Also - don't play games and try to make her jealous. That will backfire big time. Just be glad that you've got a lovely, gorgeous girlfriend, and enjoy the relationship as much as possible.

 

Cheers!

[Juliana]

"I guess that leaves me to ask Juliana--

 

if your husband constantly gave other beautiful girls the wrong ideas, "

 

So you've decided it's possible for your girlfriend to "give" other men the wrong idea? That they aren't coming up with those ideas all on their own?

 

"and they were always caused to think that a possibility existed to be in a relationship with him,"

 

Again, laying the responsibility on your girlfriend.

 

"and were thereforeeee always trying to please/impress him, and give him things, make him food or be just be really caring and be there at the drop of a hat and so on, you wouldn't feel the slightest bit concerned about their intentions, even though you still trusted your husband?"

 

No. Not unless they were intending to rape him, and that's not consensual sex; I'd be afraid he'd be harmed, not that he would leave/cheat on me.

 

"Do you not think that the "drop of a hat I'll do anything!" sort of friend should be reserved for your place in his life, rather than for you AND a handful of other beautiful, interested, persistent girls?"

 

No. My husband feels that way about other people -- his sister, some friends -- and it doesn't interfere with our marriage. His romantic love is reserved for me; his filial love is spent wherever he chooses.

 

The line of thinking you are pursuing is very unhealthy. It will create exactly the situation you're afraid of.

 

As a matter of fact, neither my husband nor I wear wedding rings. He doesn't keep my picture on his desk (although he had to bring one into work once when a co-worker became annoyingly attentive. He is pursued by other women, all the time. I don't care. Like I said, it doesn't matter to me what other people think -- he's not responsible for what goes through their minds, and their fantasy life does not impact our relationship in the slightest.

 

Your fantasy life seems to be impacting yours, though.

[anonymous coward]

Thanks HP, that was great for me to see on this strange morning. I think your pointing out the jealousy was good for me... that's what it is. I'm being the jealous guy I never wanted to be. Why on earth does it concern me so much what other guys are thinking/scheming about my girlfriend, when I know she's chosen me.

 

You know, were it not for my decision to post here in my time of need, I may have started a big thing with her about it today. I'm really glad I haven't-- especially not while we're away from each other.

[anonymous coward]

"

 

Your fantasy life seems to be impacting yours, though.

 

Without a doubt man, and impact is the right word.

 

I think the relationship you described with your husband sounds cool. I'd never be able to not wear a ring or not expect my wife to, but it seems to work well for you two. How did you get so avant guard about the relationship? Did you just grow out of the idea of western marriage traditions, or did you suddenly realize you weren't into it?

 

I have a friend who studied human sexuality as an undergrad and she's pretty much against marriage at all-- the idea of rings and vows actually repulses her because she sees it as ownership. It always fascinated me.

 

But then I think of my parents having just had their 30th, and my grandparents upcoming 50th... stories about their rings... my grandfather can still pick my grandma up in his arms and she loves it so.... they do belong to each other, and they love it.

[tictactoe2006]

My story is similar: wife startes a new job, bunch of guys, single, party animals. A few months later they helped her move out of our home and hooked her up with a divorce lawyer.

 

I would be very wary were I in your shoes.

[Juliana]

Oh, Lord, my husband and I are so traditional, we're beyond traditional. I don't think we've abandoned Western marriage traditions at all; we just happen to believe in them, and live accordingly.

 

There is nothing you can do to force someone to "be true to you;" old fashioned words, but that's what it's all about. I made the decision to marry my husband (loved the whole wedding thing, too), and after that, it wasn't about my husband keeping me faithful, it was about me knowing that he's what I want. He really is the smartest man I've ever met. He just doesn't do idiotic things. Other men frequently do, so I stay the h*ll away from that kind of thing with them.

 

I mean, if men want you to dress a certain way, and behave a certain way, and keep certain company, h*ll, why not throw you in a burkha, and get it over with? I decide who I sleep with. I decide how I'm going to be with people. Not my husband, and certainly not the other men. come on; if you had an affair with someone, would it be because you were tricked into it somehow? It's a pretty definite act, taking your clothes off and getting into bed with someone, and it's not something you do by accident. So, my husband trusts me, and I know exactly what I want: Him.