anonymous coward

My girl's friends are all really materialistic and shallow. They all expect guys to be rich and sacrifice their lives for their girl, and these girls all cheat on their boyfriends and collect as many guys as they can. My girl isn't like this. But... does it mean something that *all* of her hang out friends (5-6 girls) are of this same sort?

I can totally relate musicguy. When I was in my late teens/early 20s, I used to be really jealous and insecure. All guys who even looked at my girl were instant enemies, and every time she mentioned one of them, I'd get all worried and insane with jealousy. It's like I felt the need to keep all other guys far away from her, that I was in a constant battle to keep her devotion. You should never be in battle for devotion... that ruins the point of being in a relationship in the first place. It should never be a struggle, but that's exactly what it sounds like you're in. That's no way to live, man. I have some good, hard advice for you that really helped me out. When you're with a girl, don't let yourself get *so* attached. Don't start thinking that she's the only one for you, or the only great girl you'll ever have and that if you lose her, your life may as well be over because, , she was the one, and now she's gone. Detach. Be independent. Love your girl, do everything you can for her, but don't let yourself obsess or be infatuated. In short, don't be so dependant on her for your happiness. This sounds lame, but, be *cool* about it. If she talks to guys, be cool. You're detached. If she leaves you, it will suck. But you'll be fine, you weren't that attached anyway. Believe it or not, most girls respect this in a guy. You've learned this. Your jealousy and attachment have pushed girls away before. Be happy to be alive whether you're in a relationship or not. Be happy to be on your own. Do great things. If a girl enhances your happiness, great. But no girl should ever be the sole source of your happiness. When that happens, then of course you'll be possessive as hell because losing her would mean losing your joy of life. If you're attached to the point you simply can't be without her, if things don't work out, or if some shmuck steals her from you, you'll feel alone, miserable, in the dark. Also, if some girl knows how dependent you are on her for your happiness, she may see it as a really significant weakness, and be less attracted to you for it, at least over time. Don't go there, at least not until you promise your lives to each other in marriage. Then, some would say, the situation changes. Keep your head up, bro.

She's not ready to be in a serious relationship. She's still trying to figure out who she is, who she wants to be, and who she wants to be with. If you stay with her, you're going to have to deal with this BS all the time. Once she matures (and there's no set age for this, some 14 year olds are more mature than 40 year olds... but that's another topic) she'll probably quit the games and tears and lies. I say leave her alone and focus on your own plans and self. You don't need or respect a girl like that, do you?

I'm beginning to see trust as a form of logic. I know that it sounds contradictory, that trust is a "feeling" and we know that often times feelings can be illogical, but there is logic in trust as well. If some guy whom you've just met says he loves you, even though he hasn't had the time to really get to know you, can you trust it? Maybe your feelings trust that he really feels love when he says it, but your mind has to consider the fact that "love" is built, as is trust. Once you've been with him for a while and know him very well, then your feelings of trust are based on reason. If he proves himself sincere over time and doesn't give you any reason to doubt him, then it's actually illogical *not* to have trust in him, right?

Your mom's statements sound familiar to me-- it's the voice of a person who thinks they know the "real world" based on things that have happened to them personally. The problem is that people all have different experiences and thereforeeee different "real worlds". We can't go around trying convince others that our view of the world or of humanity is the only truth, and that all other views are wrong. This reminds me of a conversation I was having with this dude at a party. He was trying to convince me that all anyone wants in life is money or fame. No matter how many examples I gave of people who clearly weren't like this, he'd turn it around and say things like: "they say they don't have these desires in order to be known for saying those sorts of things. They want to be known for saying these things because it brings them a kind of fame. So what they're really after by denying their want of fame, is actually fame itself." He then said all girls want to marry rich guys, or guys who have the potential to be rich. No matter how much a girl will deny it, he said, what they really want is financial glory. Is this true? Does this speak of all girls? Just as he can't sum up the nature of all females in the world, your mom simply can't box all guys into being lying cheats either. It's just wrong. Parents can be wrong about things. Listen to your own heart.

S'up man. She must be a heck of girl in just about every other way for you to put up with that kind of emotional vampirism. I agree with the other posters-- if you involved a 3rd party (outside source) to meet with both of you to talk about the situation, she may have a better understanding of how seriously damaging her insecurity is to your relationship. Since it's been six years now, I don't think that marriage is going to change her lack of trust in you. It must feel awful to have someone unjustifiably doubting your honesty or your fidelity or love for them. Honestly, I don't think there's anything you can do about it on your own. I'm sure you've said everything you can, and it sounds like you've done all that you can (and more than you should have to). You'll have a really stressful marriange unless this is settled before hand. In brief: it's time for you to take somewhat drastic measures to heal this girl, or otherwise you'll be dealing with this forever, or at least until you become old and impotent (because maybe then she'd trust you won't cheat on her...)

Hi again, I've just returned. As you can see, I stayed two extra days. Elaboration on the way... As you all probably expected, I ended up having a pretty significant confrontation with her about everything, and it was rough for both of us, for a time. We had an awesome brunch Saturday morning (after she picked me up at the airport), and then planned to drive downtown. On the way she took an off-ramp way too fast and we slid a bit, and somehow that gave her a flat tire. She pulled over and started to call a towing service. She seemed amazed that I could change a tire. In the western world, changing a tire is the most common thing... but where she's from, it's a clear job for a specialist. Anyway, it was pouring rain and there was something intimate or special about her holding the umbrella over me while I went to work. It was cool. It felt like we were married or something. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that's the way I felt. "Baby, are your hands cold? Here, let me call a tow truck." "No, I'm fine, baby. But can you hold the umbrella over my head a little bit more? Rain is getting in my eyes." "Of course, is that better?" It made me feel so great. A few hours later, once downtown, slurping tea, she brought up our troubles of the week (of which you've all been great councilors). It occurred right in the middle of the day on Saturday while we were sitting in the lobby of the hotel, and it wrecked all our other plans (I had bought some tickets for us to see some shows and stuff, but, when in the middle of what we were, nothing else mattered...) She said if I had other girls paying so much attention to me all the time, she'd be jealous. That was so nice to hear-- it let me know that at least she understands what I was feeling. But she also said that the way she acts towards guys is just her natural self. She's friendly, and she can't help it if guys take it the wrong way. She definitely can't change how she is because, as she said: "Who else can I be, but myself?" She said she wished that guys could just be friendly back, and not start asking her out, or buying her flowers and such. I understood. But I wanted to talk about it more, for both of us. I know she's going to be around those guys for at least the next year, one of them pretty closely, and I knew I needed to get things settled or else risk another emotional breakdown. I tried to take a very outside perspective so she wouldn't get so defensive so fast, as she usually does. I asked her if she thought that a guy who has a serious girlfriend should act the same around single girls as a guy who is also single. She said no, that he shouldn't act the same. So, obviously, I then asked if she thought that girl who has a serious boyfriend should act the same around single guys as a single girl would act. Again she said "no, she shouldn't." Wha?? So I asked her if she thought that a single guy should act differently towards a girl whom he knows has a serious boyfriend than to a single girl he is interested in. She said that he shouldn't act the same-- that he should act differently towards a girl who is "taken" because it's respectful. I asked what it meant or what it "says" about guys who still act aggressive or flirtatious around a girl they know has a serious boyfriend, and she said she didn't know, but maybe that they weren't such good guys to be doing so. That maybe it was disrespectful "or something." So I asked if she wanted to be friends with guys who "weren't so good" or who weren't very respectful towards her. She said these guys were her coworkers and that it was a matter of courtesy to be friends with them-- yes, even if they aren't very respectful or say inappropriate things sometimes, and even if they make her uncomfortable sometimes. That threw me off big time and I got a little upset. Did she know how it felt as a guy to know that other guys were being disrespectful to his girlfriend? She said she didn't really know. I explained that it was like torture. She shook it off. Time went on and we spoke of similar things for hours. While we spoke, she moved closer, then held my hand, and over time we spoke with our arms around each other. There wasn't a conclusion to our talk, but more of a total openness, and I feel like we really understand everything about what happened now. When our talking was over, we seemed at peace, and closer than ever before. For the rest of the night we had beautiful time, and we spent all day Sunday and Monday in absolute bliss. We joked and laughed and said we loved each other hundreds of times. And now I'm home. She's thinking of trying to move in with me while I do what I have to here in NYC because she's happiest when we're together. She also said she's most like "herself" when she's with me. I said I was thinking of ways I could arrange my schedule so that I can see her for longer periods of time in Toronto, maybe one week a month. We also arranged our work schedules so we can spend two full weeks together over Christmas. Things seem to be great now. For all guys out there, here's what I learned from this whole darn thing: 1. Asking for anonymous advice in online forums can save your sanity-- highly recommended, and I'll be sticking around to give back to the community that seriously saved me. 2. When it comes to your girl and other guys, heed the words of Daligal83: "All feelings are OK, but not all behaviors are OK." Be a man. Suck it up. If you've earned the love of a wonderful girl, keep on earning it, and don't let other guys interfere with it, no matter what they do or say or how they act. Your girl will be true to you if she loves you enough, and that falls on your shoulders. If you can't keep her love and she has to share it with other guys, there's nothing you can do, and that girl isn't the one for you. That falls on her shoulders if you're doing everything you can for her. 3. Keep the channels open, and talk it out in person, even if it means flying accross the country. 4. When you talk it out, talk with her, not at her. Hold her hand, hug her. Speak from your heart, and she will listen truly. That's all. Thank you all again, and look me up any time in the forum. I'll be around if any of you need to talk about your own situations or whatever. You're a great group, and I won't forget it. Peace.

Thanks both of you for your thoughts. The nice thing about this whole experience of posting to you guys has been that, regardless of my feeling bad, or even of my mistakes, you remind me that I'm not crazy for thinking or feeling the way I do. When I brought everything up with her that day when she was at work, she made me feel like I was crazy for feeling what I was, like I was somehow reacting in an abnormal way. But, crazy or not, when her coworkers think she's interested in them and try their best to impress her, and she doesn't tell them go away but sort of keeps them around even though she's in love with me... it makes me feel uncomfortable. Valid? Legitimate? Jealous? I don't even think it matters what it is at this point. But the feelings remain. We spoke that night (Tuesday night) and we touched briefly on the topic. She was clearly not herself, not saying much. After a long while she asked if I really loved her, and I said I did. Then we talked about other things. Yesterday we spoke briefly again during the day, just to check in. We talked about our day. I went to a concert last night and came home late, then was busy for most of the day today. I wrote her 2-3 emails, and I have yet to get a response, which is weird. I don't know what to think at this point. I'm flying up on Saturday. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think that something negative may happen... I just want things to be like they were before. Before I said anything to her. Anyway, I'll let you know how the trip goes, for better or worse. Thanks again for your kindesses. Perhaps some day you can call on me so I may return the favor.

Thank you for the thoughts. I think that's very sage advice-- we'll see what happens with it. I think my only fear as I sit here waiting for her to get home tonight (so that I may call her) is that I may have lost some of her respect with my showing of such... whatever it was. It was so out of character for me to spill like that. But just as you said, they were real feelings, and I hope they were at least somewhat legitimate, and that I'm not somehow attaching myself to her in such a way that causes a "jealous boyfriend" type of image to form. It's... never happened to me before. Painful, yes. But really interesting for me too.

So, hi again everyone. I can make things a little more interesting now, quite unfortunately for me. As you may remember, I started this post after having spent an entire night completely sleepless in frustration with how my girl's coworkers have tended to take a liking to her in a more than professional way, and how I am often forced to see things develop in that way from afar, yet remain completely powerless about it because to bring it up makes me look jealous and insecure and would ultimately hurt my relationship. Well. In my zombie state, I made a big mistake today. She called on her lunch hour, which she sometimes does. She sensed something was off in my voice, and I think it was mostly that I was tired. But then, somehow, inexplicably, EVERYTHING came out. Just a run-on sentence that lasted for at least 5 minutes. I told her I was up all night, I told her I wasn't feeling great, and then everything just spilled. Like I threw up on myself with words. I told her about how frustrating it was to see her coworkers turn into suitors, how I was worried about her proximity with the new manager, and the nature of the guy from all she's told me... and then, as it purged, I even told her I wrote to an internet forum for some council. It was a total disaster. She was at work, she had to excuse herself and book a conference room so we could talk it out in private. She said she couldn't believe how big a deal I was making of these things, that she never, ever thought this would be a problem for me, that should couldn't believe she was holding the phone in discussion of these things, and she sounded really sad and upset and maybe even angry. Her voice changes when she gets that way. And so on. Misery. What on earth came over me-- I'm beside myself in disbelief and self-contempt. Especially after all your great comments-- how could I have lost it like that. Whether it was lack of sleep or stress (heavy stuff at work and school these days) I can't say. But it was a major mistake. This is the sort of thing that could totally push her away. I wonder if she's even talking about it with her coworkers-- the guys I've been so concerned about. This is tragic. I don't think it will break us up, at least not yet, but it's going to resonate in her for a long time I think. She seemed so drained by it all by the time we hung up. We're going to talk again tonight, in about 2-3 hours. Going to do everything I can to repair the damage I've caused by my weaknessnes. I can't decide if I should just apologize and try to convince her to forget everything I said, or maybe try to better explain myself and how I was feeling, and why, maybe, I was feeling it. Or maybe just not talk about it at all. Talk about something else.

Without a doubt man, and impact is the right word. I think the relationship you described with your husband sounds cool. I'd never be able to not wear a ring or not expect my wife to, but it seems to work well for you two. How did you get so avant guard about the relationship? Did you just grow out of the idea of western marriage traditions, or did you suddenly realize you weren't into it? I have a friend who studied human sexuality as an undergrad and she's pretty much against marriage at all-- the idea of rings and vows actually repulses her because she sees it as ownership. It always fascinated me. But then I think of my parents having just had their 30th, and my grandparents upcoming 50th... stories about their rings... my grandfather can still pick my grandma up in his arms and she loves it so.... they do belong to each other, and they love it.

Thanks HP, that was great for me to see on this strange morning. I think your pointing out the jealousy was good for me... that's what it is. I'm being the jealous guy I never wanted to be. Why on earth does it concern me so much what other guys are thinking/scheming about my girlfriend, when I know she's chosen me. You know, were it not for my decision to post here in my time of need, I may have started a big thing with her about it today. I'm really glad I haven't-- especially not while we're away from each other.

Yeah, I know. It seems like this always happens to me-- I've been overseas for a couple years where I tried to make LDRs work (half-heartedly, I guess) and I NEVER thought that when I moved back to the US the FIRST thing I'd do is start another LDR. Gaaaaa. Quite suckily, it will be at least 2 years while I finish grad school, unless she decides to move down to the US, which, seeing how much she loves her job in Canada, doesn't seem likely. If I keep flying up every three weeks or so as I have been, then by time we can live together it will only have cost 2.3 drillion dollars. So, that's good.

Nah, Ellie, I see what you're saying. But I do think that she unintentionally misleads guys-- otherwise she wouldn't have had the recurrent moments of discomfort: "you do know I have a boyfriend, right?" "Yeah, I guess I do." Not a convining answer, and historically it doesn't seem to really matter to them. Insecure... maybe that's all it is. I guess that's sort of what I'm asking you guys to straighten me out on. I'm not relly insecure physically--I felt I should be humble when stating that my girlfriend is gorgeous-- but maybe insecure in that I can hang on to her while she undergoes the barrage, and while I spend less than 1/10th as much time with her as her interloping coworkers do, and it's been her decision to entertain them in their trials, at my emotional expense.

Holy! Rodeo-Rider, that's the best idea of the day by far. At least I think it might be. But... maybe not actually. Geez. So I meet some of the guys who keep doing what they can to impress her, give the firm handshake and... could I handle it. Wow. In a way it makes perfect sense. I've never met any of these guys (long distance-- I go for weekends usually) and maybe if they knew me it would make it more real to them that my girlfriend is happily taken. At the same time, I have to wonder if my girl would see that as some sort of insecure posturing. What if they squeeze my hand back hard. Then I will hate them-- and they, or he, will still know that he gets to be with her every day (and even take trips) and he'll know that I'll be gone again in a couple days for another few weeks, where he can do what he can. Man. Man, man, man. I must sound really weak now, but I am HATING this whole thing.

Bataya33-- I guess it's not a red flag compared to other posts here. I just find myself thinking very weak thoughts about the situation because of how I'm feeling, especially knowing that now she's going to be spending all this time around her new manager, and I that I already know what he'll be thinking (like so many others). In my delerium, I was thinking about maybe starting to tell her that I was having lunches with young, pretty, female coworkers of mine (which I'm not), and telling her about when girls ask me over, just as friends, to watch a movie or something. I know it's lame and shallow. But a part of me just wants her to know how I feel, and that maybe if she did, she'd see her behavior differently about being so amenable to the guys around her. I know that will only cause problems though. It seems like I will have to endure it if it's going to work. If I cause her to feel like she has to endure similar things coming from me, then we'd both just be enduring hardship, and the relationship would have some major odds. My court, I know. I guess that leaves me to ask Juliana-- if your husband constantly gave other beautiful girls the wrong ideas, and they were always caused to think that a possibility existed to be in a relationship with him, and were thereforeeee always trying to please/impress him, and give him things, make him food or be just be really caring and be there at the drop of a hat and so on, you wouldn't feel the slightest bit concerned about their intentions, even though you still trusted your husband? Do you not think that the "drop of a hat I'll do anything!" sort of friend should be reserved for your place in his life, rather than for you AND a handful of other beautiful, interested, persistent girls?

Hey Batya, yeah. She's really fashion-oriented (unlike me)-- it's part of her culture, it seems. All her female friends dress up for work every day and they're so critical of each other around fashion stuff. She doesn't dress provokatively, but she wears a bit of make up and always seems to look stunning-- I'm sure that's part of it. She's also just really easy going, easy to make laugh and so on. You know, I think she just naturally makes guys feel good, just talking to her.

hey itsallgrand, totally-- in the ideal world, yeah. But goes the other way too, you only live once, so despite the cost/trouble of long distance, why not give it a shot? I guess that's how I managed to decide to go for it... though I know it sounds silly. I really do know.

Hey Daligal83-- I don't know how to PM, but yeah-- could definitely use the anonymous feedback once in a while on the distance thing I bet. I really don't have a good female perspective on the situation-- my few female friends think I'm crazy for flying up there every 3 weeks! Talk about a lack of support

And it makes so much sense to me, about her I mean. I was friends with her for years before we started our relationship, and I used to think she was interested in being more than friends probably long before she actually was. Also, she's had a guy stalking her, sort of, about a year ago. Police involved and everything. He thought she led him on, or something, and couldn't get over the fact that she wasn't interested in any more dates. I was just friends with her at the time, but I could sort of see how a guy could take her the wrong way... no way I'm justifying stalker-type stuff, just saying that, to a degree, I understood *how* she could have that sort of problem.

Actually, also, Batya33-- the thing is that the guys she even associates with at all in her workplace tend to be really smooth. I think they know that if they ever made some sort of sexual allusion, she'd probably never talk to them again. So they go the "just want to get to know you better" and be "good friends" route, but it's backfired for her (and me, indirectly) when they take her friendliness as a sign of interest. Guys suck, man. So many of my gender are like predators, or something.

Thank you Batya33-- that was very helpful as well. I know it doesn't do anyone any good to point out naivety, especially since she's a professional herself. I haven't really harped on her about it-- I'm sure she's able to see what the pattern has been like with guys she's friendly with... I just wonder why, if she knows it tends to happen, does it keep happening... she must know it makes it hard for me.

Thank you Daligal83, that makes good sense to me. I *do* have her. I guess I really just need to suck it up. I can't wait for this long distance to be over-- but it will be another two years. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

Hi forum viewers, really glad you're there. I'm totally confused about what to make of my girlfriend's relationship with some of her coworkers. I really trust her completely, but don't trust her managers or other coworkers at all-- and I have reason. I have no idea how I did it, but my girlfriend is gorgeous. She's also extremely friendly and smart, and, unfortunately, naive. There have been three or four occasions over the past year when she'd be telling me about a guy who she'd become friends with, I'd be questioning his intentions, she'd get defensive, and then a few weeks later it would turn out I was right, that he wasn't just trying to be her friend and what not. (Some surprise Valentine's gifts, hug requests and invitations to go on dates, things of that sort.) About 4 weeks ago she started telling me a little bit about one of her managers, 30 years old, handsome, fast-track type, speaks french-- she mentioned he had been putting some pressure on her to go out to office-party type things because she never usually went and he wanted to get to know her better. I asked her why he couldn't get to know her in the office. She said I was overreacting. She never went, but came really close over Halloween to going to a costume party that he really, really wanted her to go to. Then he started asking her to go jogging with him, she never went. Now he still gives her apples every day, which she takes. He also tries to impress her by writing to her in Korean (she's korean) and, upon hearing the news that she was going to transfer to another department (same floor though) he wrote her some emails saying nothing but the words "don't go". She confronted him and made sure he knew she had a boyfriend, and his response was: "yeah, I guess I do know." She then told him not to worry about her transfer and that she'd still be on the same floor so he could stop by to chat or whatever any time. (Isn't it amazing that she tells me everything like this? Lucky, and unlucky at the same time.) She continually reassures me and always tells me how much she loves me and that I'm the one for her, that I'm all she thinks about and so on. But this sort of thing has happened before where guys think they have a chance and act on it, and it leaves me wondering about how it is that they keep getting the courage to pursue her like this, knowing that she has a boyfriend. (I should mention that we're doing long distance by the way-- I see her about every 3 weeks until I finish grad school.) I'm secure about myself, and I know we're in love, but I'm also realistic, and I know that some guys just seem to know how to win a girl over, maybe even break up a relationship. Some guys are just real ladiesmen and can impress any woman. I hate knowing that they see her as a potential, and I hate knowing she somehow lets them see it that way. You know what I mean? It's like, I trust her completely, but I just can't settle my mind about why she gets all this attention all the time unless she's somehow sending signals to them... and some of you may say "well, as long as she doesn't do anything with them" but at the same time it's making it so hard for me, i'm seriously hurting, and it also seems so disrespectful of her to not be more upfront with these guys to the point where they won't try anything. And now, in her new job, she's been telling me about her new manager, another 31 year old guy (she's 25), handsome, successful, single, cocky. She'll be working in the same pod as he, and she's probably going to have to travel with him from Canada to California once a month or so. This tuesday they're driving to tour a motor plant together. It's driving me crazy and it hasn't even happened yet. I've tried hard not to act the typical jealous boyfriend because i've seen those guys and I think they're unfair. But I feel like somehow, with this stuff always happening, she's being unfair to me in how she deals and behaves towards them. She goes out to lunch with her male coworkers and previous managers and stuff. I never had a problem with it, but now I really wonder about what sort of working relationship they have... i found out the other day that they do talk about personal things... like relationship stuff, which seems very unprofessional to me, especially between opposite sexes. I really love this girl, I know long distance sucks, but I just feel like she's unknowingly creating all these potential problems. And, along with my heart and health, it's hurting my career and studies to be worried and hurt all the time about it. What do you think? I'm I being ridiculous for hurting so much, or should she reexamine how she acts towards her coworkers? I'm not asking her to stop talking to them or not to grab a coffee once in a while. Just to be more... just to honor me and our relationship more and make it clear enough to her male coworkers that she's made her choice, that it's me, and leave them convinced of it. Thank you all so very much, god bless you-- it's seriously driving me crazy (it's 7am, haven't slept at all because of this-- our last conversation was about her new manager--- ) (damn, sometimes I think I sound like a damn fool about all this.)