The subject of Sex (from a guy POV)

[Scout]

So this forum is now representative of the world?

 

No, but remember you are also participating on this forum, too, which at least indicates your opinon isn't representative of the world's, either.

 

I remember way back when I was in high school. This girl and I were trading insults back and forth. I got in a good one that really bothered her and she proceeded to kick me in the nether region. It hurt and I hunched down (trying to catch my breath and any guy who has been hit in any way in that region knows that feeling) while she laughed. No one said a word to her. And there were A LOT of people there. Well I got up and punched her in the breast hard and she was on the floor as well. I don't want to even tell you how many people questioned how I could hit a girl. Unbelievable nonsense.

 

That's a disturbing story. Both the verbal and physical violence part. I am sorry you are using this exchange to represent unfair violence towards men. Because it's NOT the same as some husband or boyfriend getting mercilessly abused by his girlfriend or wife. What happened with you and this girl were two people who decided to "trade insults" with each other to the point it escalated in violence. Complete immaturity and ugliness on both your parts, in my opinion.

 

You also had a choice here instead of punching her back in the breast...one that many women can and do make when they get hit by a man: you could have called the cops and had her charged with assault.

[Scout]

If anyone wants to read an interesting article about the apparent rising incidences of females being violent to men, check this out: link removed

 

The article points out that many people take issue with studies like this, here is an excerpt for why: When the 1980 study was released, it was so controversial that some of the researchers received death threats. Advocates for battered women were outraged because the data seemed to suggest that the risk of injury from domestic violence is as high for men as it is for women, which isn't true. Whether or not women are violent themselves, they are much more likely to be severely injured or killed by domestic violence, so activists dismissed the findings as meaningless.

 

I can see even on this thread we're turning the debate from "how many women also abuse men" to "well, women still receive worse injuries than men overall in cases of domestic violence."

 

Does anyone else agree that there are more productive ways to address domestic violence than arguing about who has it worse?

[Honey Pumpkin]

Okay, last post on this. First the stats posted by the Battered Men website - it does show violence against women is much more prevalent:

 

1,510,455 women and 834,732 men victims of domestic violence

1.5% vs. 0.8% in one year, 22.1% vs. 7.4% lifetime

 

So this is almost twice as many women as men in a year, and three times as many men in a lifetime.

 

Secondly, tired man, your post about hitting someone back:

 

I remember way back when I was in high school. This girl and I were trading insults back and forth. I got in a good one that really bothered her and she proceeded to kick me in the nether region. It hurt and I hunched down (trying to catch my breath and any guy who has been hit in any way in that region knows that feeling) while she laughed. No one said a word to her. And there were A LOT of people there. Well I got up and punched her in the breast hard and she was on the floor as well. I don't want to even tell you how many people questioned how I could hit a girl. Unbelievable nonsense.

 

What exactly does this show? If ANYONE was hitting someone I would be deeply shocked - neither of you would deserve anything other that disapproval and disgust, to be honest.

 

I agree with Scout, though - this is a pointless argument. Domestic violence is deeply unacceptable whoever is the perpetrator and whoever is the victim. Answering violence with violence cannot ever be the answer, it just reinforces the cycle of violence. I suggest we move on from this, as we hold very different views about the facts of domestic violence, and are not going to budge from our viewpoints.

 

One last thing - I would never be in a relationship with a man who has ever hit a woman. That's nothing to do with gender, that's more about being in a relationship with someone who thought it was acceptable to use violence. For me, that's a sign to leave without looking back. Would you stay with a woman who used violence? I cannot imagine ever being with a partner who might be violent towards me. Nor can I ever imagine being violent towards someone, I've never hit anyone in my life.

[TiredMan]

No, but remember you are also participating on this forum, too, which at least indicates your opinon isn't representative of the world's, either.

 

That's a disturbing story. Both the verbal and physical violence part. I am sorry you are using this exchange to represent unfair violence towards men. Because it's NOT the same as some husband or boyfriend getting mercilessly abused by his girlfriend or wife. What happened with you and this girl were two people who decided to "trade insults" with each other to the point it escalated in violence. Complete immaturity and ugliness on both your parts, in my opinion.

 

You also had a choice here instead of punching her back in the breast...one that many women can and do make when they get hit by a man: you could have called the cops and had her charged with assault.

 

Well that was a LONG time ago and ironically, I later became friends with this girl and I may have even hooked up with her lol. But I'm not sure. I never hit someone unless they hit me. That is my motto. If ANYONE (other than a small child) hits me, I will hit them back if I can, whether it's a guy my age or a 80 year old woman. But I'll never initiate.

 

Yeah the insults were sillyness but remember it was high school. Just bustin chops but she decided to take it farther with the hit.

 

Yes, I COULD have charged her with assault. And your statement completely backs up what I have been saying. Women do charge men with assault. Problem would be, if I did, I could NOT show my face there without being ridiculed as being a "wuss". A girl hits me and I go complain to the cops? Believe me, I would bet my life on it that the results would not be good for me. And that, in a nutshell, is exactly the point.

[TiredMan]

Okay, last post on this. First the stats posted by the Battered Men website - it does show violence against women is much more prevalent:

 

 

One last thing - I would never be in a relationship with a man who has ever hit a woman.

 

1- Would be in a relationship with a man who has ever hit another man though?

 

2- What if the man hit the woman who already hit him?

 

And yes, the website shows violence against women being higher. First of all, nowhere near the 90 percent you quote. Secondly, also explains the reasons why the male number is not higher, which are similar to the reason I gave and you ignore.

[TiredMan]

Tiredman, i am in there with you. Hang in there.. you are not alone.

 

Oh I know I'm not. But at the same time, I also know that some people are unable to handle being told things that go completely against what they have grown up thinking.

 

It's similar to going to the conservative south and trying to convince many of the people there that the US President is wrong or something lol.

[Scout]

Yes, I COULD have charged her with assault. And your statement completely backs up what I have been saying. Women do charge men with assault. Problem would be, if I did, I could NOT show my face there without being ridiculed as being a "wuss". A girl hits me and I go complain to the cops? Believe me, I would bet my life on it that the results would not be good for me. And that, in a nutshell, is exactly the point.

 

I have no idea if you would have been ridiculed for calling the cops. It seems you got ridiculed anyway for hitting her back, so wouldn't it have been better to send a serious message that just because she's a girl, she can't get away with ILLEGAL physical violence?

 

Plus, I have a feeling several guys would have had your back on that option, considering where she hit you. She could have injured you for life, and certainly she should have been hauled down to the police station and CHARGED WITH A CRIME for that.

 

Yes, more women call the cops than men on physical assault issues. But at a certain point Tiredman, you have to stop blaming women for this injustice. For every major change, there are always a few pioneers who did the hard work first. If more men would call the cops when they are abused, instead of worried about being called a "wuss," then we'll see more change. We'll certainly have more raised awareness.

 

Do you agree?

[TiredMan]

Excellent point. Violence against men from women goes so overlooked. It's similar to the "it's only a girl who hit you so be a man about it" argument that I was making.

[TiredMan]

Well, I wasn't ridiculed for hitting her back. I had people questioning "how could you hit a girl?" It's not the same as running to the cops. Different kind. You know what I mean? The latter being me called a slang term for female genatlia frequently attached to cats. (Is that clean enough to describe it lol?)

 

I blamed men earlier in this thread for pushing some of these old customs along. but at the same time, you see how women react when a guy makes these sort of statements. Many honestly dont want it to change.

 

It's easier said than done to tell a guy not to worry about being called a "wuss". It's one of those things you can never shake while you are there. It's like when a woman accuses a guy of rape or sexual harassment. Whether he did it or not, that label just tends to stick with you. I personally was very happy with the way I handled that situation. She hit me, I hit her back. I would do it again. I'll tell you this much. Next time we started messing with each other, she never did that again.

[Scout]

Excellent point. Violence against men from women goes so overlooked. It's similar to the "it's only a girl who hit you so be a man about it" argument that I was making.

 

That wasn't my point, though. My point was that while there are incidences of female abuse against men than many people realize, turning the issue into "who has it worse" is, in my opinion, never going to solve the problem of domestic violence. I understand raising awareness is a first step, which is what you're doing, TiredMan...but the way you are doing it is accusing us women of being the fault of the lack of awareness. And I don't think that's accurate or fair.

 

Let's remember that male or female, we're all human, and have the capacity to work together collectively if we make the effort to look past our hostilities and grievances.

[Scout]

Ok, TiredMan. It's clear you're not going to be a pioneer. You're just going to return violence for violence.

[TiredMan]

Yes, because I am a big believer of an "eye for an eye".

 

Interesting side note, I typed in "never hit a woman" on google. Try it out and give a read to how many things are written about it. Particularly humorous is other message boards where they talk about this. You will see how many females post towards this subject. IN fact, there was one particular one where a guy said he beat up a guy who was hitting his woman. Might be made up but shows the mentalilty. Some guys gave he negativity about hitting the guy or getting involved (rightfully) but then you had some woman saying "I'm glad there are guys like you out there". Interesting read though.

[Scout]

Yes, because I am a big believer of an "eye for an eye".

 

Why? Just curious.

[TiredMan]

Why? Just curious.

 

Because I go out of my way to be nice to others but if they do something like that, why not do back to them? I guess it depends on who/what it was of course.

 

Interesting note regarding the other topic. I remember years ago where MLB pitcher Chuck Finley filed a domestic abuse report about his wife at the time Tawky Kitean (of Whitesnake here i go again video fame). She was hitting him. He did the "right thing" or was a "pioneer". Do you know how much he was ridiculed for this? He wasn't getting the compassion she would have gotten had it been the other way around. I have a link to an opinion article about it. Not sure if I can post it as there is some bad language in the article.

[Scout]

I remember that case, (and I couldn't help but laugh at your "Whitesnake here I go again" reference).

 

The reason I remember that case is because it was rare for men to report abuse by their wives. So this man took a real chance by speaking out and raising awareness. He may have been ridiculed for it, but so what? If we live our lives based on what others are going to make fun of us for doing, I don't think we're going to get very far. From a personal and broader level.

 

Everyone gets ridiculed when they go against the norm. But the people that keep plugging on do eventually make change.

 

I'm an animal rights advocate. Do you know how many clowns have made disparaging remarks to me about that? And do you think that's going to make me stop showing up at protests and stop being a vegetarian? Hell to the no!

 

As for giving back to people exactly what they give to you...well, since you're mostly nice to people (you say)...aren't most people nice back to you? For the few who aren't, why stoop to their level? Why not just quickly cut people like that out of your life so you can stay surrounded by positivity? It does seem you dwell so much on the negative, not just with female issues, but in general. I would like to help you with that, and would be willing to do so via private messages. I've learned a great deal in the past two years that I think would be enlightening.

 

I realize your high school incident was long ago, and when we're that age, we have less control of our emotions, but you're past thirty and still sound rather proud of the incident, I can't help but point out.

[TiredMan]

I am proud of it because anyone who would act that way obviously had done it before and would have done it again. I hope what I did taught her a good lesson.

 

Chuck Finley endured a lot for what he did. Did he result in any change?

 

I'm not dwelling on the negative, IMO.; I'm pointing things out that most people are afraid to do. I have talked to many people in my lifetime who wanted to ask similar questions that I do ask but were afraid of the consequences.

 

I'm going against the norm here when I post my thoughts. And you are right, look at the reaction I have gotten from some. But hey, I'll continue to push through like you say.

 

Oh and some people are just inconsiderate, rude and uncaring. Those are the people, and the only ones I react that way to.

 

Here's an example from present day. I'm the type of guy (wasn't that an LL Cool J song lol?) who likes to be very considerate. Whether it be to friends or whoever. Like the other day, I was in the market shopping for food. Nothing big. Anyway this one last was in front of me in the aisle with her cart and she would keep stopping in the middle to look for stuff. Not caring at all that there might be people behind her. I said excuse me a couple of times and she told me to wait, she would be done soon. ME? I would put my cart to the side and look so others can get by. She obviously felt she didn't have to do that. I was in a rush so I moved her cart to the side nicely and started to walk by. She yells at me for "touching" her cart. After like 20 seconds, I said " you know what? Here" and I pushed her cart down the aisle making her chase after it lol. That made me feel good.

[Scout]

Yes, I just wish you would do so without the hostile edge. People tend to focus on that more than any information you get them. It puts them off. If you want your points really considered by people, it helps if you deliver them in a thoughtful, patient manner. I do see some of this happening, but you tend to use general examples that make it impossible to have a fruitful dialogue...when you say, "That's the way the world it is" and "I see it all around me" and "Most men" or "Most women"...well, you're generalizing and basically discounting other points of view.

 

You have some valid points. Don't let them get lost by being impatient or dismissive of others...and yes, even if they are that way in return to you! It takes much more will power and leaves a more significant impact if you can keep a calm head about things.

[TiredMan]

My feeling is that no matter how I worded it, the subject would get lost by some anyway. I am sure of it. When people hear something they are not used to hearing or goes against the "norm" it is the normal reaction.

 

I mean cmon. THe first guy who agreed with me was compared to a rapist.

[TiredMan]

Look at the post above (or behind depending on the time) this one. A woman complainging about her b/f not being into sex as much as she is. Look at the last response. Someone (female) asks her if it's possible he is CHEATING. Perfect example to illustrate one of my original point. I'm not gonna point it out in that thread because the valid point I make would be lost by people accusing me of being negative in that thread. BUt I am pointing it out here.

[Scout]

Well, it's one of the signs almost any article about infidelity will say to look out for...when your partner suddenly doesn't want sex that much anymore. Why do you have to turn that into a gender issue, too?

[TiredMan]

Well, it's one of the signs almost any article about infidelity will say to look out for...when your partner suddenly doesn't want sex that much anymore. Why do you have to turn that into a gender issue, too?

 

I thought TV and magazines and things like that aren't good for this sort of stuff?

 

But it was one my original points. If the guy is not in the mood or doesn't want to, she will think something is wrong or he is cheating.

[dogheadma]

Yes, because I am a big believer of an "eye for an eye".

 

 

Talk about outmoded ideas! It dosen't get much older or outdated than that. I thought you wanted things to progress in a more productive direction when it comes to issues of domestic violence. I'm confused.

[freedom]

i the end of the day, Tiremn is allowed to have his point of view(POV) whether you believe it or not is not the point. Like other post out there like what is your BF flaw" it is about a POV. It is rediculus the you all are trying to prove him wrong. He isnt wrong, he has his point of view, like i have mypoint of view, like everyone else has a pont of view. He doesnt have to try to prove something to everyone.

Talking about statistics, every one know that statisticscan be skewed some way or another, form the point of collection to the point of analyzing the data itself. If everyone just relied on statistics we would be bloody accountants and we all know what fun they are!!..

It is just a POV and some poeple agree with it and some dont. It is about experiences. Just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

[TiredMan]

Well said Freedom. But I think people don't want to hear that.

[dogheadma]

I'm not trying to prove you right or wrong, TiredMan. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. You make sense when you say the media sort of brainwashes people, but then you seem to blame it on women. You say domestic violence is unfair, but then you say you believe in an eye for an eye. You say it's a fact that men are more abused than women but it's only based your personal experience. I'm just trying to understand your point of view, I'm not judging it.