Why is dating so much like a game....

[renaissancewoman101]

You guys have all given me a excellent perspective on the dating/mating ritual. I like to call it a ritual because both parties have a part in it in making it work out. If one person is more into it than the other, then it falls apart. It is a delicate mating dance to say the least.

 

For the time being, I am not going to push hanging out with my buddy after school on Mondays and Wed. I am going to finalize the date with him on Sat. I will be myself and keep a life. It wont be easy because I have a tendency to "jump the gun" and push for things because one thing I do hate is the insecurity and the limbo of the dating game. It's hard to keep things in perspective because as I get to know him, I realize I do like him. And yet I have to keep a level head because as we proceed in this, he may decide that I am not the one for him. I dont know. Life is unpredictable.

 

I am not going to date around though. I have always had problems dating more than one guy at a time. I also dont usually attract more than one guy at a time.

[Batya33]

A very worthwhile book in my opinion is A Fine Romance by Judith Sills

[Dako]

Ren,

 

Don't forget he did that arm thing. He's responsive to your charms.

[renaissancewoman101]

Dako, thanks!

 

I know I can be charming when I want to be.

 

Confidence is something that I have to brush up on. Confidence that I am good enough for him and if he isnt good enough for me, then NEXT!!!!!!

 

Life goes on!

[Dako]

Ren,

You're even charming when you're cranky!

[Lady Bugg]

Just wanted to interject quickly...

Personally I PREFER when the guy pursues. Not because I think it's

the "rules"....or any of that garbage...but because it makes ME feel

special...and quite frankly things just simply flow nicer. It feels "right" and not

forced. I HATE HATE HATE pursuing men. Call me old fashioned but I do.

I am not saying I haven't...but anytime I have...it has ALWAYS ended

badly...or with me feeling like I was cheated somehow. It is something I

can't quite put my finger on..but being being pursued by a man works for ME.

 

I read the book Mars and Venus on a Date by John Gray...and his insight was right on the mark for me. Now this is coming from a MANS perspective and HE said the worst thing a woman can do if a a guy isnot calling her..is to pursue him. ..in MY experience he is 100% RIGHT. It has NEVER worked. If a man is not calling you it is NOT because he isn't ineterested but a man can go two weeks or two months WITHOUT calling a woman and it seems like no time has passed...whereas when time speeds up for a man ..it slows down for a woman in the dating process.

 

Anyway..RW that is a great book to read...and that's MY 2 cents.

[chai714]

RW,

 

Keep this mindset and you'll be fine: Can he make the cut? (meaning, is he good enough for me, or is he toast?) Not many will make the cut; those who make it the next round are lucky.

[now_better]

i think the concepts of dating have changed very much over time to the point today where it is not unheard of for a girl to ask out a guy. and i think as time progresses, it will only become more and more equal. i believe 100-200 years down the road (if we haven't wiped ourselves out by then...) when multiple generations have passed, the dating mentality will be much more equivalent and the concept that the guy has to do all the pursuing will become antiquated (reading some of the stuff in this posts makes me amazed at how one-sided people can think... guys are just like girls, we have feelings too, we don't like to get rejected either, we can be taken advantage of too). i think girls will ask guys out just as much in the future and as john lennon would say "You may say that I'm a dreamer/But I'm not the only one."

[Lady Bugg]

Perhaps it depends on the age of the guy...or the way he was brought up. Some guys are very old school and prefer to "lead" in dating. So a forward, aggressive woman is NOT going to go far in pursuing him. There are SO many variables.....but the bottom line is: Men are men. Men like challenging things. That's why they hunt. That's why they play sports...they like to WIN.....men will get up at 3:00 in the morning to go fishing...and not come home with ONE fish..because they throw it back. All they want is the "catch"......I don;t care HOW much the guys say they don't mind if the woman chases OR pursues them....SURE they will be flattered..ad may even LIKE the woman..but they will NOT be motivated to INVEST in her because there is NO reason to.

 

[rocio]

It's completely sexy for a girl to have balls and ask a guy out.

 

That shows confidence.

 

But for a girl to be chasing a guy (ie: calling him, leaving messages, always available..) that is not sexy and doesn't show confidence. It looks like she's desperate.

[Scout]

Ren, to answer your thread title's original question: Dating will seem like a game if you attach rules to it. And if you decide to approach dating as a "game" you are sure to have experiences where you feel like you failed. Because with games, you either win or you lose.

 

So, how about not thinking of dating as a game, where you either win or lose, and the "prize" is a boyfriend?

 

Think of it ONLY in terms of the positives:

 

1) You are expanding your world to include meeting new people. Some will stay, some will not, but all will teach you something if you let them.

 

2) You have the opportunity to practice the art of conversation. And yes, it is an art.

 

3) You have the opportunity to practice the virtue of listening. And yes, it is a virtue! (a rare one, at that)

 

4) You have the opportunity to live in a time and place where it's acceptable for a woman to meet more than one man, and thus, better learn what kind of man would make a good partner for her.

 

I'm sure there are numerous other positives, that others can contribute here. This is to just get us started...

 

Ren, because you have lived with anxiety as your driving emotion for so long, it is very important that you start to add positive thinking to the mix, to the point that it's much more of mode of thought than negative, anxious thinking. I'm telling you, once you remove anxiety from the equation, that is when you are going to better connect with people.

[Lady Bugg]

Ok just a few quotes From Mars and Venus on a Date:

 

When a woman is too eager to please, a man doesn't experience the distance he needs to pursue her.

 

A woman will tend to give too much in the beginning of a relationship when she doesn't understand how men think and feel. A man hungers for the opportunity to make a woman happy. It fulfills him to make her happy. Her happiness is his happiness. This, however is not the way women are. A woman is not primarily fulfilled by making a man happy. A woman needs to feel she is getting what she needs in a relationship. then she can freely and happily give herlove. When men feel good about themselves, they are most motivated to please a woman. The more a mans life is in order, the more he hungers for a woman to share it with. Although he may be very autonomous and independent he begins to feel he is missing something. That something is satisfied through fulfilling a woman or making her happy. A woman need never feel obligated to please a man. By giving him the opportunity to please HER more, she allows a man to be most fulfilled.

[justpaisley]

Reading through this, I have to say, you have my sympathy, RW. If I were dating a man and I couldn't be myself because I had to bob and weave and try to be someone I'm not in order to snag him, and then slowly insert the "real me" into our daily lives, I would go bonkers. I know that I lost several dates with dudes because I was just myself, and they didn't like me for me. I married a man who had been my best friend for over 2 years, and because he already knew the real me, I never had to play games or be anyone but myself.

 

It seems to me that it'd just be so much easier to be yourself at the beginning, be up front, be honest, be forward, in order to weed out the ones who don't like the kind of person you really are. If you're being someone different to impress someone else and have to wait a year or so to be completely comfortable, and at that point, your SO realizes he doesn't really like the real you, that's just a huge waste of time.

 

I burp, I eat with my elbows on the table, I laugh really loud, I wanted to be married young and have children since I was a child, I am religious, I expect to hear the words "I love you" several times a day, I expect to hug and kiss my husband every time I see him (except when he has a cold sore, because that just grosses me out, plain and simple). A lot of guys can't handle that, and more power to them. I showed all of that from the beginning, and had short relationships because of it. Then I started dating a guy who knew all of that about me from the beginning, and was married 2 and a half months later, and 5 and a half years later, it just gets better every day.

 

You gotta date efficiently.

[Lady Bugg]

LOL Paisley...............Your post made me laugh....thank you.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

I don't believe in games anymore, and I have a guy of 1 + years. It can be done.

 

I now have faith in myself to the extent that I know I'd reject any rubbish game players I came accross...I have now seen from experience I can BE, and can GET, so much better quality of product (haha) than that.

[now_better]

It's completely sexy for a girl to have balls and ask a guy out.

 

That shows confidence.

 

But for a girl to be chasing a guy (ie: calling him, leaving messages, always available..) that is not sexy and doesn't show confidence. It looks like she's desperate.

 

let's take your quote at the end and replace guy with girl and vice versa.

 

"But for a guy to be chasing a girl (ie: calling him, leaving messages, always available..) that is not sexy and doesn't show confidence. It looks like he's desperate."

 

a girl certainly does not have to act desperate just like a guy doesn't. just be normal. ask if he wants to go out. if he does, great. if not, move on. does the girl have to initiate everything? no. does the guy have to initiate everything? i really think there can be a balance here.

 

and the book "From Mars and Venus on a Date"... believe what you want to believe. i think the bottom line is whoever is being pursued has the upper hand and can dictate the pace/existence of the relationship. in most cases, this is the girls. i don't know about the psychological stuff about a man "hungers for the opportunity to make a woman happy. It fulfills him to make her happy." i think if you're in an honest relationship with someone you like, of course you're going to want them to be happy and vice versa. this is not a man/woman issue. this is a person issue. this is a discussion that could go on until the end of time and has been debated an infinite number of times.

 

and paisley, i like that "dating efficiently."

[justpaisley]

a girl certainly does not have to act desperate just like a guy doesn't. just be normal. ask if he wants to go out. if he does, great. if not, move on. does the girl have to initiate everything? no. does the guy have to initiate everything? i really think there can be a balance here.

 

Bingo. "Just be normal." Can I get an amen. If a woman is the kind of person that expects an immediate answer, and to that effect, calls several times after a first date, then that's the person she should be. Some men will be turned off by that, those men should be honest and call her back and say "I'm sorry, I'm just not that into you." (Did anyone else love Greg Behrendt before he turned into a lame mid-life crisis talk-show host?) Some men will LOVE that, and call her back, and boom, you have a relationship that's completely honest from the jump. However, if a woman is the kind that expects an immediate answer, and waits the requisite 3+ days to call a dude after a first date, or doesn't call at all because she believes a man should, she's then transforming herself into someone she's not. Boom, you have game-playing, dishonesty.

 

I guess I should stop posting to this thread. I've been married 5 and a half years, what do I know? LOL. I'm watching a lot of my friends date and I just want to shake them and say "Would you freakin' be honest??? It's just so much easier that way!!!"

[renaissancewoman101]

Paisley80, I understand your POV but then the other posters are also correct. Sometimes our behaviors are borne from our insecurities and our own "baggage" that we carry from life or previous relationships. I do think that, in order to learn what is acceptable in a new, burgeoning relationship, we have to kind of take pointers from others. Like with clinging behavious (calling all the time, clinginess, constant availability), those are some things that we inherit from our past and may not be healthy behaviors but is a part of our personality. Would it not behoove us to take pointers from others and try to curb that part of our personality so we dont drive away a potentially good relationship? or set the stage for someone to take advantage of us?

 

Life is a learning process, and we are all works of art that are constantly changing. What defines now may NOT be what defines us in the future or what DEFINED us in the past.

[Scout]

I'm watching a lot of my friends date and I just want to shake them and say "Would you freakin' be honest??? It's just so much easier that way!!!"

 

I feel that way, too, Paisley. But at the same time, we all have characteristics that could stand a little checking. Yes, be yourself. But if there are really negative things about you that are freaking a lot of people out, work on those things.

 

It doesn't change who you are as a fundamental person, and you can still "be yourself." For example, you can still be a passionate and opinionated person, but temper that with respect - and an ear - for other people's opinions, too. Or, you could still be mostly an introvert, but make the effort every now and then to extend yourself a bit so others don't have to do all the work. (I'm just pulling some examples out of the air, by the way, not referring to anyone on this thread.)

[Honey Pumpkin]

HP,

 

I much prefer and believe in what you describe.

Dating has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me, and the rules and strategies seem tailor-made for someone I don't wanna know.

 

Dako, we're in total agreement! I'm not good at 'rules' - I think all these strategies and game-playing may work for some but they don't work for me. I get confused by all the ways you're 'supposed to be', and instead I'd rather go for just being me. It may not work, but at least I know where I'm at. And if someone is playing games/rules with me, I'm out of there, personally. Maybe it's an age thing? I don't know - this might have worked when I was very young, but at 34 I don't feel it's me now. I may get hurt, but at least I feel I've been honest to me.

 

And I had the most fabulous evening with someone - it wasn't a 'date', so I wasn't paranoid about what to do and what not to do, but I just was me.

[renaissancewoman101]

All of us coming into relationships with some type of "baggage", some with more than others. We know that calling too much, being too clingy, giving up everything for the guy, etc., are not good dating qualities. If those qualities are part of the baggage you carry around with you (hence you are insecure, clingy, etc), then wouldnt it behoove you to keep that part of your "personality" hidden, so you dont scare away any potential bfs. I learned from painful experience that if you let your true self (warts and all) come out in the beginning, a guy does not appreciate you and will usually split rather early.

 

Dating is a game, I know, where you put on your best foot forward in the beginning. It is like an intricate minuet that you are dancing to.

 

I wish life was not like that.

 

If I let all my positive and negative qualities of my personality come out in the beginning, most of my potential bfs would probably have run away into hills screaming.

 

Although, that was one thing I did admire in my ex. When I first went out with him, he showed me what he was into warts and all. On our first official date, he went out with me wearing a full Goth outfit (complete with combat boots, black shirt, black jeans, black canvas trench coat, and metal studded, leather dog collar.

 

On our second date, I met up with him at a GenCon type of thing (which is NOT my cup of tea)

[Batya33]

I don't think it's comfortable in any relationship - dating or friendship - to let it all hang out too soon - that can be overwhelming. I think it takes confidence to act "as if" you are confident - the more you do that the more it will be integrated into who you are.

[rocio]

let's take your quote at the end and replace guy with girl and vice versa.

 

"But for a guy to be chasing a girl (ie: calling him, leaving messages, always available..) that is not sexy and doesn't show confidence. It looks like he's desperate."

 

a girl certainly does not have to act desperate just like a guy doesn't. just be normal. ask if he wants to go out. if he does, great. if not, move on. does the girl have to initiate everything? no. does the guy have to initiate everything? i really think there can be a balance here.

 

 

Girls have a tendency to get attached and smother in the beginning. I've seen my girlfriends doing this countless times, and I've seen guy friends being smothered and running in the other direction.

 

For some reason, I haven't seen it happen the other way around.

 

And I do think it's great for a girl to ask a guy out. But now I'm talking about beyond the first or second date. She shouldn't keep calling him 3 times a week thereafter. Many girls do this and it ruins their game.

[renaissancewoman101]

I think girls take relationships WAY seriously in the beginning, like when they first start dating a guy they are into, they are already thinking in their minds about marriage, a house, kids, etc. Men, on the other hand, seem to take dating a day at a time, and just enjoy the experience for what it is, at that point in time. Women tend to jump the gun and think of what it can lead to down the road. I know I have been guilty of that many times. I think the reason why men and women approach dating differently has to do with social constraints and how we are taught to view dating. Women see dating as a means to an end (marriage and kids) while men see dating more in current time frame.

[justpaisley]

RW, I'm not sure I understand (you'll have to excuse me, I'm very tired ). Are you saying that we SHOULD change in the beginning of a relationship because we're going to change eventually anyway during the natural course of life?

 

And honestly, I don't think that if you're what someone else would consider clingy, you should change yourself. If you are, you will eventually find the guy that appreciates that behavior. I did. With my last serious boyfriend before I started dating my husband, I called several times a day. I just liked being in constant communication, and I'm the kind of person who will call if I see something funny on TV, ate a really good piece of pizza, or just want to say "I love you." I'm also very physical. I like holding hands, hugging, kissing. It just so happened that the last boyfriend I had didn't like that, and said I was clingy. He was happy with calling maybe once a day, and wasn't raised in a household where physical contact was encouraged. My husband, however, is the kind of person who will call all the time for no reason and likes to be physical. I found someone who likes his wimmin the way others would consider clingy.

 

I say if you are the kind of person who calls a lot, then do it. You will eventually find the man who appreciates that part of you.

 

If you're constantly changing yourself because of what you see caused your last relationship to fail, whether it was your fault or not, you'll never find the man who will love you for you. You'll find the man who will love you for the damaged, cautious you. The thing that caused your last relationship to fail may be one of the things that causes your next relationship to flourish, so eliminating that part of yourself will inevitably bring relationship failure.

 

Just my opinion though.