To cheat or not?

[FortunateOne]

Walk us through the logical argument you pose. Where α = Girlfriend, R1 = Coworker, β = Men slept with

 

Deduction?

Using the rule and its preconditions to make a conclusion (α ∧ R1 ⇒ β

"Girlfriend" and "coworker" equals one of "men slept with" remembering that "...slept with well over 10 people, one of which was a one night stand with one of my colleagues a couple of days before we got together..." while she was technically single and not an item with you, thereforeeee not cheating since no commited romantic relationship existed.

Induction?

Learning R1 after numerous examples of β and α

"Coworker" after numerous examples of "mens slept with" and "girlfriend" which was, once again, not technically your partner.

Abduction?

Using the postcondition and the rule to assume that the precondition could explain the postcondition (β ∧ R1 ⇒ α .

Using the "men slept with" and the rule to assume that the "coworker" could explain the "girlfriend" actions which is the process of explaining what is known in reverse of deduction when she was not your partner from the moment of the transgression.

 

 

I think the logic is flawed and your basing you "wanting act" on emotions rather than logic.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Hey Jake,

 

From my perspective it seems as though you are thinking with the wrong head. Ya know sex with strangers isn't all hot and wild and naughty..sometimes it's down right not fun and awkward.

 

the best sex of your life is sex you have with someone you love and have deep feelings for.

 

you get just as much if not more "experience" from being with one person as you would from being with 10.

 

I think your willy wants to wonder and you are letting it convince you that you "should" do it becuase your girl has had more men then you.

 

it's her past...get over it. What will you do when you are in your 30's and you meet a woman who has had twice as many partners as you? Not date her? Say "oh wait..i need to go sleep with more people before i hook up with you?"

 

Your thinking is warped and I tend to lean towards the theory that your ego is seriously bruised because you were "ok" with the amount of sex partners you had until you found out she had more. So so so childish.

 

that's not love my friend...i'm sorry it's not.

 

I agree with Hubman... the grass is not always greener on the otherside.

 

i dated a man for 5 and half years..the BEST guy you could ever ask for.... that was over 10 years ago..i have YET to find someone or have a relationship like i had with him. Why did we break up? I wanted to date other people..i wanted to experience dating other people...well..now i have - whoopty doo. lol

 

i'm not going to convince you to stay with your girl because that's your choice ..but i would like to invite you to think about your thought processes before cheating.

[Jake1979]

Thank you everyone for every reply- I know I seem to be arguing back but your views are all much appreciated, I am going to print this off and have a good think about it all. I am going home now- (spent far too long writing all this at work!).

 

In all honestly I dont think I could bring myself to cheat but need to find some way to get over this without leaving her- its gone on for too long now and is destroying both of us.

 

Any more comments would be great, I will have a look back over it on monday.

 

Cheers

[shes2smart]

I am not fine with the past and there is nothing I can change, but I dont want to leave her

 

You want two things that cannot co-exist. Stripping away all the details, all the possible actions, all the justification, this is what it comes down to.

 

As long as you want two things that can't co-exist, you're going to have a problem.

 

In life, we have to make choices. If we are not proactive about making decisions, they will get made FOR us by other people or by circumstances.

 

Instead of focusing on what you don't have or focusing on what's already been and gone, try focusing on what you DO have.

 

Two you have to also consider that all her past experiences are what makes her the woman you love now

 

Give that some serious thought.

 

Also, ponder this: You are past an age where most people don't have any previous partners/relationships. Anyone you meet from this point forward is going to have a past. Heck, by the time you get to my age, it's not a matter of figuring out IF they have baggage...it's figuring out HOW MUCH baggage they have, and if it matches your baggage.

[Beec]

Oh yeah I do believe that- thats the weird thing, I dont for a minute think I will have a better relationship (sexually or otherwise) with anyone else, the person I could do it with is in no way better than my girlfriend. The only reason would be for the experience of sleeping with someone else, thereforeeee not feeling so bad about either her past or my past and instead feeling guilty for what I have done and being able to realsie what is true which is I am lucky to have what I do and learn that I will not want to be with anyone else or be bothered with how many either of us have been with.

 

You know there is simply not that much different about women that you get different sensations from having sex with different women. You get different sensations from women who really want you sexually from those who don't, but otherwise, nothing much changes, except their figures to some extent and their tastes and scents.

[lunatic]

Heck, by the time you get to my age, it's not a matter of figuring out IF they have baggage...it's figuring out HOW MUCH baggage they have, and if it matches your baggage.

 

 

LOL

 

 

Amen s2s Amen!!!!!

[Siriana]

You know there is simply not that much different about women that you get different sensations from having sex with different women. You get different sensations from women who really want you sexually from those who don't, but otherwise, nothing much changes, except their figures to some extent and their tastes and scents.

 

 

I agree. Good point

 

Can I be mean? Well o.k. I will be mean. I am preparing myself to be flamed.Here it goes:

 

Dump her than have sex with several girls, afterwards feel miserable and alone because it is going to be a loooong winter (or summer depending on your time zone), than be a looser who tries to come back to her - but she already turned the page and is dating someone who she thinks is the love of her life.

 

Second scenario - cheat on her, be a selfish bastard, than try to live with that and post here on enotalone and ask for some sympathy. Heh.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

i dated a man for 5 and half years..the BEST guy you could ever ask for.... that was over 10 years ago..i have YET to find someone or have a relationship like i had with him. Why did we break up? I wanted to date other people..i wanted to experience dating other people...well..now i have - whoopty doo. lol

 

You have to work on your own demons in order to get over this feeling of insecurity. Read all of the posts in response to yours. The above comment from Healinghands says it all. Don't let insecurity rule or else you might throw away something wonderful and live to regret it. Back in my parents generation, people did not have multiple sex partners. They often married their one and only sex partner and did indeed live happily ever after. You are really buying into the whole SEX is everything myth that society has pushed. You don't have to experience something to learn lessons. A really smart person learns lessons from other people's experiences and learns not to repeat the same mistakes. Take it from the people on this board who have "been there, done that" and realized the hard way that it is not all it is cracked up to be. Having love is a gift that should not be thrown away just to scratch an itch.

 

If you don't tackle your insecurities, it will continue to go places no matter how many partners you have. If you have 10 partners and your girlfriend had 10 partners, if you don't tackle your insecurities, you will start wondering what she did with those partners...was the sex better, what positions, does she do with me what she did with them....the list goes on. You have to live in the moment with your girlfriend as she is now, not her past.

[Hope75]

S2S was onto something when she said that you sleeping with someone else is NOT going to change your girlfriend's past.

 

You said that you feel you need to sleep with someone else in order to "forgive" your gf for something she did in her past before she even met you that has nothing to do with you and should not have to be forgiven by you.

 

The bottom line with this is that this is her past- either you learn to accept it or you let her go. Cheating is not an acceptable answer. It's not going to take away the knowledge that she slept with these people, it's not going to perpetuate and foster feelings of love, trust and respect, it is not going to change your relationship in a positive way.

 

Imagine your gf writing what you are writing right now, after 6 years. How would that make you feel- knowing she wanted to sleep with someone else to get over something you did before you ever even met her? Would you feel loved and respected by her? Do you think that would help your relationship? She deserves someone who is FAITHFUL, HONEST, LOVING. What you are contemplating is NOT.

 

Can you honestly say to yourself that you love her and yet you want to hurt her by sleeping with someone else? That you even could contemplate that if you loved her?

[lunatic]

Hope I think your missing a small but significant piece of the puzzle here. I think he is mad that she lied to him about how many partners she had in the past. I know if someone lied to me for six years I would be hurt and confused too. Although I would have given her the walking papers right after that because I cannot stand a liar!

[candy604]

yeah don't cheat, cheating never helps a relationship. NEVER. Read all the posts here how people thought it would help, but in the end their relationship is still a diaster. Illogical thinking. It won't help you mentally, and it's a really odd way to recover. Normal people would result to talking it over, reasoning with themselve about the situation. Called "problem solving".

 

Break it off if you don't want a relationship. No one wnats a relationship where another person wants to be a cheater. That's something very low a person could stoop to. Be a man and resolves things maturely!

 

let her past be her past. Everyone has a past but it depends what they do now.

 

Don't copy her behaviour just to be in the same boat, you'll feel guilty and be known as a cheater ( to urself). If you can go threw with it now, what makes you think you won't be able to do the same in hte future? Please think about it. If she's not cheating on you, then that's great.

 

You're not married, go find another girl who has a better past if you're worried. My friend has prolly slept with over 20ish girls, but he's happy with his gf of 3 years now and she doesn't care b/c you know what, it's not what he did in hte past, but what goes on in their relationship NOW.

 

Another thing, my friend and her bf ( now-ex bf) went out for about 1.5 years, he lied to her about his virginity to her. Of course she was fuming but you know what, doesnt' mean she has the right to go out and cheat b/c she was bothered. That's ludacrius behaviour.

 

Good luck, please don't! I always say, somehow the truth will come up one way or the another, no one can really hide their secrets.

 

Using her if she can sleep with someone else she's known for 3 hrs or something, doesn't give you a reason to cheat or as an exception to your relationship. Hurt and mad, yes, but other than that you can't use that as an excuse to cheat. She was not in a relationsip then remember!! very important, she was not in a relationship with you yet. 6 years gone by, you and her have done great. Ask yourself of those 6 years that passed : you have a good relationship? Why do you people want so many partners before they get married, that's not hte aim of life. I'd be so happy to find the one right off the bat, it's not all about sex.

[Beec]

Jake this really seems to be a case of you wanting what you don't have and being ready to risk what you do have. Perhaps you should think about what you have more, and then consider if you want to risk that.

[NJRon]

Something struck me in your post. At first, you said you were ok with everything and didn't seem to feel this desire to cheat until you found out that your girlfriend has a lot more experience than you. You were fine when you thought it might be one or two.. but ten? That makes you jealous. I also sense that, because of that, you are wondering whether she is comparig you to others.

 

In general, acting from jealousy, you want to have the same opportunity she had... it's just you feel stuck because you don't actually want to hurt her or get out of the relationship. Also, your insecurity is not allowing you to directly face the issue head on... but instead look for some magic back-door way to address it and get over your insecurity.

 

You may not realize it yet... but if you went out and cheated, no matter how much you justified it in your head and how "exactly what you were looking for" it was, your pride will be tarnished. your self-esteem will be lowered even more. You will forever realize that you were unfaithful... and, no amount of justifying the infidelity will erase that fact. It's very damaging for your sense of self.

 

In respect to that, Shes2smart gave pretty well the cornerstone to how you should maturely address this issue:

 

So, here's a quick overview of my definition of cheating, regardless of the activity/activities involved:

 

Partner knows what you want to do AND consents = not cheating

Partner knows what you want to do and DOES NOT consent = cheating

Parter doesn't know what you want to do and thereforeeee CANNOT consent = cheating

 

Go with that definition of cheating, and there is a way you can have your cake and eat it too. If you're so hell-bent on having sex with someone else, run it by your gf...present your reasons as you have here...if she agrees and is cool with it, you're in the clear and off you go.

 

If you follow that advice... in all of your relationships, you will know that you acted with dignity and honor. It is very important that if you want to improve your self-esteem, that you always practice acts that support a positive self image... doing the opposite can have disasterous effects... well beyond just losing a girlfriend you feel is "the one".

 

In the end, if you are, as you say "meant to be"... then addressing these issues with her and seeing if you can work out a common ground *together* and with *mutual consent* will confirm that you two are, indeed "meant to be". Any other action outside of that will prove that you are not.

 

Good luck.. you have a lot to think about and I hope you reach a conclusion that supports a happy healthy relationship made of two happy and healthy people that are secure and tursting with one another.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

Again, from someone who knows - number of experiences count for nothing.

 

What you are considering is sickening in my personal rule book.

 

Not excusable at all, I'm afraid, no matter what lies your girlfriend told you about her past.

 

You want sex more than a relationship? Go forth. Urgh.

[Jake1979]

Thanks everyone- all that advise looks very sensible and is probably exactly what I would say to someone but to be honest I don't think it has really helped me think differently.

 

I am sure the amount of people you have been with doesnt matter to most- but the people who are giving this advise are people who have done it so it must have mattered to them at some time, I think its something you have to learn yourself and can not be told otherwise if you happen to have a problem with it. And likewise being told the amount your partner has been with and what they have done before being with you doesnt matter is just a matter of opinion- some people are very bothered knowing their partner has been with a lot of people (and to be honest I know people who have slept with girls but not wanted long term relationships with them for this very reason- double standards I know but human nature?), if they are bothered then it must matter to the relationship.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by shes2smart

Heck, by the time you get to my age, it's not a matter of figuring out IF they have baggage...it's figuring out HOW MUCH baggage they have, and if it matches your baggage.

-Yes well that sort of reinforces my point, I thought our baggage was compatable for the forst 6 years and now know that it is not- but am this far into a good relationship that we cant split up but I cant change the baggage or be fine with it, so what to do?- change my baggage?

 

Quote:

i dated a man for 5 and half years..the BEST guy you could ever ask for.... that was over 10 years ago..i have YET to find someone or have a relationship like i had with him. Why did we break up? I wanted to date other people..i wanted to experience dating other people...well..now i have - whoopty doo. lol

-Again, I totally understand this which is why I feel I cant leave her, but like you felt you needed to be with more people so do I- I realise I dont want to actually have a relationship with anyone else but just want to have slept with more people before I can be completely comfortable with myself moving forward in this relationship

 

Leaving her really doesn't seem an option- we have nearly split up so many times and both just realise that we should be together- but I still have this problem with the amount she has been with/lied to me about and the thing with my coleague to make it all seem relevant and I just cant seem to get over it but cant leave her. If I knew from the start I would have dealt with things from then (either decide I am not ready for this relationship because this will become an issue or decide to be fine with it) but 6 years down the line I feel trapped to do anything now- we have grown too close for me to be able to leave her but this is too much of an issue for me to be fine with it.

 

She said if its really what I need to do then go and do it now- just dont go feeling guilty and telling her about it later and dont do it again after the one time. If I dont realise the error of my ways and never want to do it again then we must split up.

 

I know it sounds twisted but I want to do something that I know I will always regret- that way I will know I don't want to be with anyone else, that the amount anyone has been with really doesnt matter. -I guess to anyone reading this could be going down the completely wrong track and wont actually make anything better but I have sort of convinced myself it is a way of sorting this out?

[Spugly Fuglet]

never there is no honnor in it

[Siriana]

Look, if you love her how can you cheat on her? Looks to me you are just affraid to leave her and you want to do the single life with her by your side. It is not about the fact she lied - for that you have every right to be furious, but you wanted more partners subconsciously long time ago and this is just a trigger for you to make it happen

 

But I must admit I am curious if the cheating is going to help your relationship - so keep us updated if you want to.

[Jake1979]

Look, if you love her how can you cheat on her? Looks to me you are just affraid to leave her and you want to do the single life with her by your side. It is not about the fact she lied - for that you have every right to be furious, but you wanted more partners subconsciously long time ago and this is just a trigger for you to make it happen

 

But I must admit I am curious if the cheating is going to help your relationship - so keep us updated if you want to.

 

 

I am still in 2 minds, and it is probably true that I have felt gradually as it became more obvious we might be together forever that the only downside to that is that I am going to have a problem in that I wont feel like I have been with many people- to then find out she has been with lots more than I thought and with this colleague of mine tipped me over the edge. -mainly due to the anger of being misled when she knew this could do this to me and so decided it was for her to not tell me- I think if she knew things could affect me this way then she should have told me before, now its so far into the relationship it seems totally unreasonable for me to split up or cheat over things that happened so long ago.

 

She said I could go and do what I want if it will get me past this - although I know she would be devistated to know I actually did it so it would feel like cheating because I would always need to keep it from her even if I didnt need to lie about it.

 

Is there anyone out there who has been through this and it has worked out as I have rationalised it? I know people would naturally take things from my girlfriends perspective and say if I have such a problem I should leave her, but after months of not being able to do that it seems like this is an option- if nothing else it will be the thing that pushes us to finish the relationship or it might make me more comfortable with our pasts and be able to move on?

[NJRon]

The suggestion, from my perspective, to leave your girlfriend as *not* because you feel like you need to cheat, but because you are not secure in yourself. In that matter, you are not fit for a relationship at all... not just this particular girl. With insecurities, you will not be in a position to be able to offer yourself fully. Cheating will not build your esteem and make you proud and will further erode it.

 

I am amazed at the amount of responses that you have received. It is apparent that you are looking for someone else to tell you a success story on how they cheated and how wonderful it made everything in the end... how they felt like a much better person and how their partner was worth so much they were willing to cheat for them.

 

I imagine, if you poke around long enough, you will be able to gather some external justification for your actions. In the end though, it is your decision and I suggest you make that decision based upon what *you* feel is right... not what others feel.

 

Good luck...

[Jake1979]

It is apparent that you are looking for someone else to tell you a success story on how they cheated and how wonderful it made everything in the end... how they felt like a much better person and how their partner was worth so much they were willing to cheat for them.

 

 

No not especially- I am assuming that this scenario is perhaps quite common and would like to hear about others experience and if it has ever helped anyone.

 

There have been some really useful answers but they seem to be things from a slightly different perspective like people leaving the person they love so they can be with more people then later regretting it or people being with lots of others and now not bothered what they or their partner has done before. -In a way these reinforce my argument that I would be a fool to leave her and that I need to learn that the amount of people someone has slept with really does not matter- I have tried to think that for months and forget about the past but just cant- it seems like it is just one of those things you need to find out for yourself.

[Siriana]

Do you love her?

[shes2smart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shes2smart

Heck, by the time you get to my age, it's not a matter of figuring out IF they have baggage...it's figuring out HOW MUCH baggage they have, and if it matches your baggage.

 

-Yes well that sort of reinforces my point, I thought our baggage was compatable for the forst 6 years and now know that it is not- but am this far into a good relationship that we cant split up but I cant change the baggage or be fine with it, so what to do?- change my baggage?

 

You've been together for 6 years, and if I remember from earlier in the thread you said you were 25...so that means you were 19 when you got together, right?

 

The amount of personal growth and change that most people go through from their late teens through their late 20's/early 30's is incredible. For many people, no other 10-15 year period in their life will encompass that much personal growth. For most people, who they are at 19 may bear little or no resemblance to who they become by the time they are 29. While you and your gf may have been a match when you were younger, it is entirely possible that one or both of you have grown (or are in the process of growing) into very different people who are not as compatible anymore...or not compatible at all.

 

I started dating my college bf when I was 19 and he was 21. We dated a bit over 2 years, lived together for a little over 5 years. By the time we

were 27 and 29, weren't heading the same direction in life -- materially, spiritually, emotionally. Staying in the relationship would mean each of us limiting ourselves to fit in those confines. So, we parted as amicably as possible, didn't speak to each other for the better part of a year, and managed to become friends after that. He's the only ex I keep in touch with. Some 15 years after our break-up, to look at his life now (which he's happy with) and my life now (which I'm happy with), it's clear that us staying together never would've worked...we woulda both been miserable. Seeing who he is now, and who I am now...even I have a hard time seeing us together in a romantic relationship at some point in the past....and I lived with the guy for a little over 5 years!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with syrix's observation:

Looks to me you are just affraid to leave her and you want to do the single life with her by your side.

 

This relationship is all you've known for the majority of your adult life. Considering the possibility of NOT having it there anymore IS frightening, and you'd be lying to yourself if you claimed you had no fear. Yet, you are considering taking a course of action that has the potential to end the relationship, should you be found out. Is it possible that there's an element of "this is a way to end the relationship without taking responsiblity for ending the relationship" involved? People have done stranger things.

[Siriana]

I agree with she2smart. Think about the things she said, maybe that's the real problem. You are trying to find a quick fix, but such thing doesn't exist. Only if you have a puncture, but even than you need to replace your wheel after a while.

 

I used to date my ex of 2 years. I started dating him with 22 and I broke up with him when I was 24. He was even 5 years older than I am. At the beginning we were at the same stage, but than, after a while I figured out that I am capable of way more mature relationship than he was. And that happenend in only 2 year period! And you have this period of dating this girl since you were 19 and now you're 25.

When I remember myself when I was 19 and now when I am 26 - it is a huge difference, so much things changed.since than.

[Jake1979]

Do you love her?

 

Yes

 

And I think rather than maturing to different people we have grown together and now want the same things in life- I just feel that I cant get over her history (it seems too relevant what with the thing with my colleague a couple of days before we were together) and am now not happy with my history.

 

By staying with her I will never be able to look back on that aspect of the past with fond memories, but I know leaving her would do nothing to make it better- but I would be able to be with other people and one day it will all be in the past as an ex and I will be happy that I feel I have been with enough people and am comfortable with the amount my girlfriend has been with.

 

I just cant face the fact I am going to have to leave her because something as stupid as this is such a big issue for me- I know I will regret doing it but cant make myself be fine with things.

 

I guess cheating seems like one last possible way out to make me not be so bothered with the past. It seems to follow a bit of a twisted logic but basically I am bothered with the amount of experiences I have had when compared to my girlfriend, I am bothered that she was able to mislead me about things she knew mattered to me, we are years into an otherwise brilliant relationship and I feel now that we are too far down the line for me to leave her over things that did/didnt happen before we were together, I know I dont want a relationship with anyone else but can't be happy with things staying the way they are now. If no-one thinks that me sleeping with someone else will in any way help lessen any of these feelings (not just because you are thinking in terms of my girlfriend if she found out- even she has said 'just go and do it' because its obviously what I need to do before I can hopefully get over things) then I wont do it and will have to break up with her instead- which she has said we will not be getting back together if that is the case.

[Siriana]

Well before braking up with her or before cheating on her you could go to speak to a counselour-not together, just you. He will know why is it so hard for you to accept her past and how to get over her lies and how to deal with your plan to cheat. I guess you think you see your reasons pretty clear, but how about getting to the bottom of things on several meetings just in case, to prevent wrong decisons or to give yourself a solid ground for making them?

 

 

I had to edit my post because I wanted to add something: she is going to dump you if you don't do something smart.