Will A Marriage Survive If You Go In With 87% Certainty?

[MissDashwood]

Edited because it was stupid to air my laundry in this way to people who neither know me nor my situation in full. I am the only one who can handle it and anything that comes of it.

[Beec]

I think that you may adjust your thinking later on in life. We you get into a relaitonship with someone, and you love them, sometimes you marry them within two years of knowing them. I did. And I knew women who better fit the "blueprint" of what I had in mind when I was looking. But the blueprint is not something that you can live with, it's just a concept and idea. When you find youself with somene, and you love them, what happens if they don't fit the blueprint? You can hold back or you can accept it. When I was younger, I think I held back. More recently, I accepted.

 

In this case, I think that you have to look on this as an opportunity that never really came to be. The man is doing what a guy who loves his woman should do, and he seems to be trying to not hurt you. It seems he also knows there was something potential between the two of you, but he had to choose. And he choose to give her and what they had a real chance, instead of going for something with potential.

[RayKay]

I think personally, you are obsessing way too much over the whys and hows of his marriage...when to be quite blunt...it is none of your business.

 

You have no way of knowing how sure he was, or wasn't. Obviously he was sure enough to want to go ahead with it, and even distance himself from you. That does not mean he is tempted by you - it may mean is uncomfortable (which if he knows how you feel is very reasonable) or maybe his new wife is not comfortable with it. Whom knows, but it's none of your business anymore.

 

I think 2 years is more than enough time for him to know he wanted to be with her, and to marry her. He had his reasons, those are valid to him.

 

There is always someone out there with certain things "better" than someone else, that does not meant they are better for YOU, or that you can or want a relationship with them. Beec is right...we don't love blueprints. We fall in love with people..not a list of manufacturer specifications.

 

I knew I wanted to marry my boyfriend VERY early on. I had enough relationship and life experience, and sense of self to know this was the real thing. We are not married YET, but we both agree it is in our future, and are extremely committed to one another. He is not 'perfect', and neither am I...but we choose to love and be together and are very happy not looking for "better". We have what we want, to nourish and create together.

 

He chose to be with his wife. He chose not to be with you. Even if you worked together, there are ways around that. Bottom line is he is with her, not you, and it is time you move on with YOUR life and stop worrying about the what if's, and what could've's at this point.

[lozic21]

I agree 100% with raykay.

[tylercdurden2004]

I had enough relationship and life experience, and sense of self to know this was the real thing.

 

Super duper hyper important!

[Scout]

Hon, I hate to say this, but this issue is more about the fact you're still hung up on him to an extent, not whether he is making a mistake by marrying someone else.

 

Another thing I have to point out...one thing I know about guys, when they truly want to be with a woman, not much will get in the way of that. If he had really, truly wanted a relationship with you, you two could have seen each other on the side until one of you found another job. People do this every single day, work policy or not.

 

I think it's time you really try to let go of this guy. Another woman is not what stood between you and him having a relationship. Nor was your company's policy. I believe he liked you a great deal, but for whatever reasons, did not ultimately feel you two would be a good fit from an exclusive relationship standpoint.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It could very well be that he is tempted by you and still has feelings for you but has chosen the other woman to marry so has to keep his distance. People marry for all kinds of reasons, not necessarily out of love. I have seen many people choose someone to marry becasue they don't want to be alone anymore, they want children, they want a good lifestyle etc. Many people approach marriage as a kind of "business arrangement" and they meet and marry someone who has the same kind of "business arrangement" mentality. It may not be the love of their life but they are getting a certain need met. Some of those marriages last, many of the people wake up years down the road and realized that they messed up. I know of one person who got married in her 30's because she no longer wanted to be alone and was tired of the dating scene. The marriage was a disaster from day 1 and lasted about 6 or 7 ugly years before now degenerating into an all out bitter custody battle.

 

Who knows why this man is marrying this woman but if he was truly in love with her, he would not be going through this angst and wishy washy uncertainty with you. Having said all that, he is still marrying her right now and it is best for your own sanity to let it go and move on. Some people get married, it splits up and then they re-connect with the one they should have been with in the first place. But, you can't wait for something that may never happen. Forget about his life and focus on your own.

 

Did you choose Miss Dashwood from the Jane Austen novel, Sense and Sensibility?

[RayKay]

Well, yes, the age thing is definitely very relevant, since you were under 18. How old was/is he? He may have either felt that you were way too young for him (illegalities aside too) or that you just are not in the same "space" as he was. He may have been attracted to you, but that does not mean he had to follow through if there were too many issues that made it not feel right for him to do.

 

Is it possible he does care for you, in a "looking out for you kinda way" but found someone whom is more on his wavelength and place in life, that he felt better suited too as a partner for marriage?

[annie24]

Hi - unfortunately, I agree with raykay and scout. beec also brings up good points - just because a person doesn't fit your blueprint exactly doesn't mean they're not right for you, and just because they do fit the blueprint doesn't mean they're right for you either.

 

I have been in a somewhat similar situation as you, where there was space/distance/another relationship "stopping" me and this guy from becoming a committed couple. Even though he told me he was crazy about me and was massively attracted to me.... somehow... we just didn't get together. Actually, I've been in this situation several times. Scout is right, if a man is crazy about a woman, he will move mountains to make it happen. (or at least, see the woman quietly on the side ignoring the office policy against dating!)

 

I think if you look back on your situation, you'll find that there were times that you and he could have made a real "go" of it, but for whatever reason, he chose not to. Not that he wasn't interested in you at some point, or that the timing wasn't rough, it's just that he didn't want to be with you enough to overcome these factors. I'm sorry if this is a painful thing to hear.

 

Anyways, like the others said, it's none of your business anymore. If he gets divorced one day, and wants you, he knows how to find you. In the meantime, let him worry about his relationship, and you worry about your life.

 

Anyhoo, since the party haven't heard from him despite writing to him twice: one email and one post (he has given me his home address and two emails and told ME to stay in touch). Also, at the time of the party I asked where he was planning to honeymoon and though this was only four weeks before the wedding date, he said they were still thinking MAYBE Mexico. A) I wouldn't call Mexico honeymoon material so much as spring-break material, and B) I know for a fact he's wanted to go to Australia forever, and his sister has even been, and C) isn't that a bit late to still be up-in-the-air over where you're going?

 

A little harsh, don't you think? I know several couples who honeymooned in mexico and loved it. maybe they just can't afford australia right now? I think you're trying to find any reason as to why they aren't a good match.

 

PS - go watch "My Best Friend's Wedding"

[Beec]

MissDashwood, I've had quite a number fo women I have loved, who I would now treat like he is treating you, if I saw them. Something was possible with them, but not now, I'm taken.

 

And I did not know where I was going to honeymoon four weeks before my wedding.

[arwen]

Why are you so concerned about these things? I think that is a more important question than whether he is marrying with a 100% commitment. I think the 87% is how you see it, he might be into his marriage for a full 100%. As far as I can read from your message, nothing actually happened between you than just being more than friends, but no relationship either. I think the fact that he found someone else already indicates that there wasn't really more than friendship and maybe a little flirtation? You mention that there is a age difference, how old are you?

 

Ilse

[Siriana]

Show must go on.

Meaning: distance yourself, forget the friendship no matter how hard it could be for you.

He is getting married, he is distacing himself - he is beeing correct and fair. He's showing that he's beeing commited to his wife.

Just slowly limit contact and drift away.

[Beec]

If you really want to do the right thing, hope that it does work. I know it means you losing something that might be, but if he loses with her, he will be very hurt. Hope it works. And if it ever doesn't, then you might have a shot. If you do anything else, you won't.

[annie24]

Ah see, here's the kicker - he and I are on the same wavelength. I mean, we've even talked about it. He has the same interests and goals and aspirations as I do,

 

Love isn't about a checklist. just because the lists match up doesn't mean that a love match is certain.

 

I will say that I have always been considered a little too old for my age. A mutual friend of his and mine, a 54 year old woman too, has said that often I am more mature than him and that even though there is an age gap, he and I are actually balanced!

 

It doesn't matter if mutual friends think you are a balanced match. He didn't ask you out so he couldn't have ever considered you a good match for him.

 

I am calm and decent and not the empty-headed type that you find on The Real World. I know what I want and what I don't want and I have a clear head and plenty of common sense and logic. I'm not flighty and I'm not one who's going to jump from liking one guy to another because "I'm still trying to find myself" - I feel I've found myself and my own mind and now what has to happen is just letting it develop more.

 

You sound like a catch.

 

He used to talk about not wanting to marry until he is 30 and that he wants to spend a while with the person before marrying to make sure because he never wants to divorce. Yet bam, months after that speech he was engaged. He talked to me about how he suddenly felt like settling down and getting married and wanting a house - within a couple months he wanted this. I happen to know though that besides one friend of his, all of his other friends got married before him. Also, from what I know of him is he'd never been "in love" and serious with anyone prior to her so she is the first person traveling on the same road as him and he jumped at the opportunity.

 

Well, it seems he changed his mind. That happens a lot when you are in your 20s. People change, evolve, grow.

 

And I do agree, it all sounds a lot like a "business arrangement" - that's a good term for it. It sounded to me when he first told me why he was wanting to get engaged that it was just the next step in his blueprint -

 

You don't know what is going on through his head. Whatever it is, he thinks this is the right step for him, so you should respect that.

 

I think the problem is he met her, realized that because he wouldn't have to wait for her it was the opportune time to fall in love, and so now he's in this new stage of life that he expects himself to be in, but not necessarily means it is the right time for it.

 

There may be some truth to this. Many people suddenly feel in their mid-20s that they are supposed to get married, so they'll marry the first person that comes by that fits the bill. But, it's their choice. However, you are not in his head - you don't know just how crazy he is about her.

 

I happen to know he doesn't want to stay in the job he has and actually wants to be a writer! He has other aspirations (and they actually match mine). And while I've never met the girlfriend/wife (whichever) and I don't know what she does, I don't know how it will work out when he wants to pursue them. But I hope she doesn't turn him off of his goals because he is a very fine writer and could very easily be published one day!

 

Again, you are not inside his head. You don't know what he is all about.

 

I suppose I'm more or less worried that he has gotten himself tied up now. You always hear those male comedians on TV about how they married the girl because at the time it was all about the physical side and wanting everything NOW NOW NOW, and then they wake up seven years down the line and wonder what the heck happened to them and their dreams and such! It's like a perfect set-up for that to happen.

 

Let him worry about that.

 

And regarding his relationship with me, wishy-washy is the best term to describe it. He knows we are on the same page and that all I'm doing is playing catch-up. Even our mutual friend, the woman I mentioned, even she made a comment that he must not have wanted to wait for me. At least she recognized that if there wasn't waiting involved things may have been working out.

 

Again.... if he REALLY wanted you, he wouldn't have let you slip away. He had 5 years to decide if he wanted to ask you out on a date - that's plenty of chances, and he would have gone for it if he wanted you.

 

And again, I mentioned the fact that when I told him I was going out of state now for school he wasn't excited or happy for me. I was expecting him to be like, "Oh that's great! You know I wanted to too but couldn't, so enjoy it and have fun!" yada yada yada. Instead all I got was "Hmm, that's good." And he wasn't excited at all. He looked annoyed. It's a great school, extremely selective, prestigious - What is a less-than-happy expression and lame "congratulations" supposed to say to me?

 

you never know the reasons. maybe he just got distracted by someone else for a second. why does he need to gush over you getting into that school? maybe he had indigestion and that's why he wasn't overly excited.

 

How did you come up with the 87% number?

 

I think the bottom line is that you're projecting a lot of your feelings about the situation onto him, but the truth is that he's marrying her, and he never actually asked you out on a date, so it seems he has made his choice pretty clear. No need to second guess it.

[annie24]

There is no sarcasm in my post. You do sound like a catch. Just because he didn't ask you out doesn't mean you're not a great girl.

 

Sorry, I modified stranger to "mutual friend."

 

There is no point in overanalyzing the situation or what happened at a party. And how do you know for sure he didn't have indigestion or need to use the bathroom and that's why he was distracted? Maybe he was glum that he didn't get into that good school or one of its caliber.

 

Do you wish you had done anything differently? Why didn't you ask him out when you had the chance?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I am not sure how to post the link to my thread in Healing after Breakup or Divorce (the title is Angry, in pain and feeling like a fool), but I know what you are going through as I have been down that road.

 

You know the interactions that have occurred between the two of you and the little nuances so I would definitely trust your instincts rather than what outsiders tell you. About 15 years ago I was working with a guy who didn't want to go out with me but there were definitely indications that he was very interested in me. It was also clear that his friends knew it. It was a very frustrating time and outsiders would tell me that he obviously wasn't interested because "the proof of the pudding" is if the person goes out with you. That is not necessarily the case. People may have an interest but for whatever reason that has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with inner issues, the person can't act. So they act wishy washy and do the backwards forwards backwards dance over and over again.

 

So, yes, given your maturity and insights and description of your interactions with him, there is probably some interest there but his time frame and life goals are preventing him from acting on them. What he feels for the woman he is marrying, you will never know, but if he is still harboring feelings for you, then he is not 100% on board with her. However, the bottom line is that he is still choosing to be with her and all the analysis in the world won't change his choice. All you can do is allow him to make the choice. Only time will tell if it was a wise or foolish choice. In the meantime, it is best for you to stop dwelling on his choices and move on with your life. Maybe there is someone far better out there for you who will not be wishy washy.

 

Pride and Prejudice is my favourite Austen book. The best film adaptation of this book was a four hour movie from the early 1980's. It stars Elizabeth Garvie and David Rintoul. It is a BBC production. Far superior to the A&E production with Colin Firth. Persuasion is my second favourite Austen book and there was an excellent movie made in the 90's with Ciarin Hinds in the lead male role. If you want an interesting read into Jane Austen's life, there is a book by Carol Shields called Jane Austen, A Life. (As you can see, I am a Jane Austen fanatic!).

[annie24]

I understand where you are coming from. As I said, I've been in your situation also. Where there was a man that was seemingly perfect for me, we had so much in common, really liked each other, but the timing and distance were off. It just wasn't meant to be. Strange.

 

But maybe take it as a lesson. That there are other men out there like him, and maybe one of those will be an even better match for you. Somethings are just not meant to be, and sometimes the reasons will never be known.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Oh yes, do I ever know about finding someone who complemented me and understood me and it not working out. I am in this situation right now, also feeling very down about having to start over. This past relationship and the one 15 years ago have been like those in Jane Austen novels, but unlike the Jane Austen novels, unfortunately they didn't worked out.

 

Alan Rickman is great in whatever he is in! He has got a great, deep and sexy voice!

[helpme2]

MissDashwood- I had a friend in highschool who I was in love with, we were "just friends" though, and the summer after I graduated he got engaged, it broke my heart, until I found my now husband. His engagement broke up and he confessed to me that he had been in love with me the whole tiime we were friends, but by now I was married. I didn't really have any regrets, I was mostly confused, he knew I liked him why didn't he do anything? I talked to my husband about my feelings about the situation, and he said "if you would have dated him you wouldn't have met me, which is more important now? me or what might have never happened with him?" and he was right.

 

My friend and I would have been perfect for eachother, but not quite as perfect as my husband and I are.

 

The past is the past, and we can look back and say "what if?" but it makes the here and now suck because we aren't living life to it's fullest.

 

Don't give up yet, I went on many crappy dates before I found my husband, you can live through it I promise. You gotta let this one go though, nothing is going to change, all you can do is move on.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It is always good to have a partner who is similar to you but there also needs to be plenty of differences as well so that you can see other perspectives. That is what helps you learn and grow as a person.

[gur]

Miss Dashwood,

 

I have been following your thread with some interest. I do get the feeling that you are consistently level headed and logical/analytical. While I am not very great at relationships myself(Also being the reason I am in these forums - I have postings for help), I cannot help but feel that you should have asked him about it yourself. If he cannot talk, and you are so straighforward and logical about it, why not? The worst thing I see happening is him realizing that he should have asked you or waited for you. The other possibility is that he really believed the age gap and your current place / status as a student going to college may be an impediment to your relationship, if it were to develop.

 

To me, it looks more like a misguided but well meant sense of decency on his part, where he thinks it is not right for him to date a girl of your age. There is nothing wrong in seeking closure and being such good friends that you used to be, I dont think there is anything wrong with laying matters to rest even now. It should either serve to really deepen the friendship or to completely sever it. There would at least be no wishy washy state of affairs.

 

Anything you do - I am sure life is just beginning for you, and I wish you all the very best. I also agree with you that with your outlook and maturity, you will not find attraction or closeness with many people, especially in College. Your deepness intellectually will limit the number of people that you can truly connect with.

 

Good luck !!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Your deepness intellectually will limit the number of people that you can truly connect with.

 

That is so true. Being an intellectually deep person myself who sees way beyond the surface of things, I have found it has been hard to truly connect with many people. I have friends both male and female, but as far as having a loving relationship with a man, the most I have ever had were men who were definitely interested in me for many years but who couldn't seem to be able to make the move forward despite plenty of direct encouragement from me. I always tended to be interested in the shy, intellectual guy and they are just too afraid. I was never interested in the fun-loving less not so intellectually deep men, nor were they interested in me. I still hope that one day I will find someone who appreciates me and is not afraid to get close.

 

As for having a partner who is exactly the same vs a bit different. I will give you an example of why I think some difference are important. The man I mentioned from about 15 years ago was a golf fanatic. I had a set of old golf clubs from my mother and decided to see what golf was all about. Had I not met this man, it never would have occurred to me to try it out. For a summer I dabbled in golf but then realized it just wasn't my thing. But I am enriched for having experienced it and tried something new. With regards to the latest man that has now broken my heart, he is really involved in Judaism and spirituality. For many years I had become quite secular and not much interested in Judaism. Because of this man's interest, I started to delve deeper into Judaism and have learned a lot. I now have regained my ties to my religion and spirituality and am happy I did. It is always good to be open-minded about someone else's interests because it may take you down avenues that you never before imagined.

[MissDashwood]

Thank you!!

[annie24]

I'm going to become a major writer and that he'll see what he missed out on!

 

It's funny - I've been thinking a lot about this topic these days. Just because you are successful doesn't mean that men will swoon. I know plenty of extremely successful women, have money, great career, are beautiful....... and single. And it's odd. While a man can be impressed by a woman's accomplishments, it doesn't always translate over into ATTRACTION. (And then there are always that percentage of men that are intimidated by successful women, but we don't care about them anyways )

 

Think of it this way - you would like a man because he is a whole package and awesome and because he speaks 5 languages. However, what if he spoke only english? would you be less attracted to him? probably not.

 

Anyways, just want to help you out Listen to your mother. Great grades, academics, those will get you a job, but not necessarily a boyfriend. Make sure you aren't too closed off and "hard to talk to" when you get to college.

 

I'm afraid that you'll run into quite a number of "boys" when you get to college also, even if you are in the best place. Remember - George W. Bush, Mr. Frat Boy, went to Yale and Harvard! No matter where you go, you'll find "dumb" or "shallow" people, so don't expect everyone to be as intellectual as you. Trust me, I have met a TON of people who went to really good schools that didn't seem to be playing with a full deck. And lots of great minds at not so great schools, or never even went to college.

 

Sorry - I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just don't want you to be disappointed when you're trying to sleep on a tuesday night, but the frat down the street is having a toga party and crushing beer cans against their heads

 

I bet that guy was attracted to you and did have some feelings for you... but for whatever reason... he never acted on it... the age I'm sure was a factor.... why not the next time you meet a guy that you can tell is interested, ask him to hang out sometime?

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

I see you deleted almost all your posts MissDashwood. I was following them with great interest. I'm sorry to say I think you were living in a dreamland about this guy that when people started injecting reality into the mix, you didn't want to hear it. Hence why you've deleted or modified almost all your posts.

 

If you ever do read this, let the man go. He's married and not to you. Find yourself a nice single guy who will pick you instead of marrying someone else. Good luck to you.