Abusive People....

[Aurian]

So what makes people abuse others? Is it because they feel lousy about themselves? Is it because they are sociopaths and they like the feeling of doing this to another person? Can an abusive person really feel sorry or is it crocodile tears?

 

I guess I am still trying to understand why my formerly sweet husband went from being my knight in shining armour to an ogre who threatened to kill my family and himself if I ever saw my parents.

[brando]

threir is tons of information on the internet about abusive men. Also here on enotalone we have some great resources. Relationship Coach put together a great post on abuseive partners. May want to take a peek.

 

 

 

[Aurian]

That is a good thread, but it mostly focuses on the victim. I guess I am trying to sort out why the abuser does this. Just trying to put some thoughts at rest, as I only ended a five year relationship that turned abusive a few weeks ago.

 

I still love the guy, and I don't have that anger fuelling me anymore, so I am thinking too much. I know I can't/won't go back because I refuse to put myself into that situation again. I guess I am just trying to figure out why he did this, why he spent 2-3 years creating a great image for me only to rip up the relationship and myself. Seems like a lot of work just to get a couple of years of having someone to blame for every bloody thing that goes wrong in life and to have someone he could feel superior to.

 

In his last email before NC, he claimed he did love me but he was scared of losing me and not being good enough for me. He claimed that he searched for problems in me so he could feel good about fixing them (and I guess reassure himself that he was better than me). This resulted in him jumping all over every word and gesture I made. And because I WAS getting stronger and better when I fixed the legitimate weaknesses in myself, he went out of control and "found" some truly insane "problems." He claimed he did not listen to me or confide in me anymore because he thought it was showing a weakness. He was terrified I would leave him, so he cut off my support. He was frightened I wouldn't want to be with him, so he made me feel bad about myself so I would stay. I wonder how much of this was true, or him trying to make me feel sorry for him. Does he really feel bad for what he did to his loving wife, or is he already looking for a new victim?

[lilgothicdevil5533]

So what makes people abuse others? Is it because they feel lousy about themselves? Is it because they are sociopaths and they like the feeling of doing this to another person? Can an abusive person really feel sorry or is it crocodile tears?

 

I guess I am still trying to understand why my formerly sweet husband went from being my knight in shining armour to an ogre who threatened to kill my family and himself if I ever saw my parents.

 

its a combination of things....some just are so sick that they like seeing others in pain crying...

some feel lousy about themselves and their childhood

and most of them are NOT sorry

[AfterTheRain]

Aurian, I am asking myself the same questions -- is my husband being sincere in saying he's going to change this time? Is he or is he just trying to manipulate me so I would go back to him?

 

How is Vancouver by the way? I just miss living there because it's so peaceful, clean and just a nice place to raise a family. I just don't want to remember those horrifying moments when he's in a fit of rage -- physically,verbally and psychologically abusive.

 

Like you, I am still trying to figure out how this horrible side could come out of an originally loving, thoughtful person. I've literally seen the best and worst side of him. But when I think of all those nice things he has done --- it just weakens my resolve to finally let go of him and of my feelings for him. I still love the guy and I am still hoping we could work things out not only because of our child but because deep inside I still care for him.

 

Isn't it hard to forget the past and just focus on your new life without him? I feel that way most of the time. Deep inside I wish he's genuinely sorry for what he has done. Don't we all wish people who made grave mistakes are truly apologetic and are willing to change for the better?

 

How would we ever know?

[Aurian]

It is really hard to forget the past yes. I stayed in the abusive relationship for so long because I was hoping to get the wonderful person back. But nothing I did was ever good enough for him and he went out of control (waving a knife in my face, calling me names and verbally stomping me flat until I wanted to kill myself, telling me I was sick and insane whenever my feelings were hurt and I started to cry).

 

Its especially hard because this is the first time he promised to change after more than two years of abuse - before no matter what, it was always my fault. Towards the end, I was at a breaking point and wrote him an email saying we both had our responsibilities in our marriage and if it were to continue, he had to make some changes to heal it too. His response was verbal and emotional bashing and pointing the finger at me. Something broke inside me and I decided I just couldn't trust or be with him anymore. AftertheRain, like you, I think he could act like or even BE the nice guy again and I would just be waiting to see the ogre. The promise came only after I said I couldn't take it anymore, after I contacted the divorce lawyer. The promises came too late and they didn't feel real anymore.

 

Still hurts though, that kind of love and then rejection. I think it hurts worse than a regular relationship because you WORKED so damn hard to be in the marriage, as opposed to a relationship simply falling apart because of incompatibility or something. I guess as part of my healing, I am just trying to understand what makes a person do this. Still think and wonder about the person I spent five years with, and I guess understanding would help me move on a bit, and maybe avoid a repeat in the future.

 

Vancouver is still good, a few pre-Olympics dramas but otherwise a lovely city. Go Canucks go

[yeawutever]

There's many factors of what leads some people to become abusers and you know something, it's just plain EXCUSES covering up their bad choices!!!!!!!

[AfterTheRain]

I wish for healing, too. I just wish I could have even a sliver of the that kind of strength you have, Aurian.

 

Perhaps I am just hoping for some miracle to happen. Miracles do happen but I guess right now, the miracle I should be hoping for is my willingness to let go and just move on with life.

 

It just upsets me that I have changed from someone who has faith in herself to someone who now second guesses her decisions and actions. I guess it's true that ABUSE changes you.

 

Remembering the coming 2010 Olympics in Vancouver brings bittersweet memories, too. We have planned to purchase tickets, watch the games and just be there when it happens. Now, I don't know if I should go when the time comes. It just feels painful. Even remembering the Canucks is painful.

[itsallgrand]

Aurian,

I do not know, and no one but your ex does, why he became an abuser.

 

I was an abusive person in the past. Perhaps I can shed some light, or help.

 

Abusers are not in control of themselves. Ever wonder how an abuser can do such disguisting things to the people they claim to love? This is how: by not taking responsibility for their actions, their thoughts, or their lives. They have disowned themselves.

It's like another person doing it. It is very hard to describe to someone who has never been there. It's possible to truly convince oneself that it is others, the outside world creating all this chaos. Not me, not me.

 

In fact, having those blinders on is the only way to be able to do such things.

 

An abuser is cut off from their true feelings, sometimes is numb, sometimes does not even know how to feel their own feelings!

 

The real feelings are so scary - a person will do anything to avoid them, not feel them, not face them.

 

Your ex may believe his own lies - probably does if he has not reformed completely. He obviously hasn't. He isn't living in reality. He doesn't know his own feelings - so he can't relate to yours.

 

All of it, all of it, is to escape from himself. To not have to face himself. When you threatened to leave, he realized bullying was not going to keep you around. So he resorted to pleading and promises. ALL FALSE.

 

It is very, very much like an alcoholic or drug addict out for their next fix.

Touch a coke users stuff, and he'll go wild. He'll promise you anything.

 

Can they really feel sorry?

If they are not far into a life without abusing, no.

They can feel sorry for themself - they can not connect enough to feel sorry for you.

 

All the pain, fear, and mental torture you have endured as a victim: that is what it is like inside him. That is his life.

 

There are so many factors which can determine whether someone will become an abuser or not. Not everyone is the same. And each has a unique, personal set of behaviors and issues: there are general similiarities, but each person truly is different. Much like each individual who suffers abuse will be different, but will some consistent similiarities.

 

Abusers are out of control and desperately are attempting to gain control the wrong way.

 

You just need to let this person go completely.

 

It is not easy, but this is how to love him: letting him go. Remember that. Your walking away and leading a good life is a loving act.

 

You should not see this person ever again. If, or when, he recovers, you still should not see him. Once that cycle of abuse has occurred with someone, it almost never can become a healthy relationship. The pattern is set. The abuse usually becomes much worse. Even after a person has recovered, they are adviced not to contact or be part of the life of past victims. It is too tempting to fall into old ways.

 

I hope that helps. You did the right things by leaving, that took great courage.

[GottaLetItBurn]

It's hard enough to leave a realtionship where you are not getting what you want out of it. Let alone one that is hurting you. You can't be a happy when your hurting. So get out, don't look back years from now and wish you did something.

 

NEVER try and change someone. It can't be done, your just throwing your life down the toilet. My grandma was cheated on for 30 years, never could do anything, she felt powerless. 50+ years married. Thought she could change him, never worked.

 

Get out if your in one, go talk to a psychiatrist if you need an opinion.

[brando]

There's many factors of what leads some people to become abusers and you know something, it's just plain EXCUSES covering up their bad choices!!!!!!!

 

 

Uh..... I would pick up quite a few more books on this topic, it doesn't sound like you know much about it.

[yeawutever]

They use excuses like "But I was molested as a kid, or I was abuse, etc. So what, many people who were abuse at a very young age or even bully at school, etc. DO NOT become abusers. It's your choice whether you wanna be an abuser or not.

[Aurian]

Thank you, itsallgrand.

 

(PS AftertheRain, feel free to PM me if you want to talk)

[itsallgrand]

You're welcome. Thanks for being kind enough to listen.

[nottoogreen]

And here as another useful link: link removed.

[Managor]

They use excuses like "But I was molested as a kid, or I was abuse, etc. So what, many people who were abuse at a very young age or even bully at school, etc. DO NOT become abusers. It's your choice whether you wanna be an abuser or not.

 

That may be true that it's their choice, but everything you do is your choice, and often you have a very good reason to make a particular choice. People have reasons to be abusive, albeit those reasons don't justify their actions.

 

I think some of the large reasons people become abusive is because they want power, and to control the other person, also to take out their anger and frustration on someone else (which happens in non-abusive relationships too, when someone rants about something or snaps back at someone trying to help). Especially the case if they're angry because of something their partner did. Other people may have been abused as children, and so abuse becomes a normal part of life for them. I found a nice webpage about it here:

 

link removed

 

I'm not saying abusive relations are ever right. Not at all. But people do have pasts or reasons which cause them to become abusive.

[Beyondthesea]

Is it because they feel lousy about themselves? Is it because they are sociopaths and they like the feeling of doing this to another person? Can an abusive person really feel sorry or is it crocodile tears?

 

I have done some research on this subject and taken courses in abnormal psychology, and there are tons of differing views.

 

A few things that seem to be unwavering:

 

1. Lousy childhood

2. Repeated altercations and viewings of abusive people and situations growing up

3. Feel they are 'owed' something by the world, by others

4. Feel they have the right to abuse someone because of the life they have lived.

 

Many of them are psychopaths, and have no remorse about what they do. Of course they say they are sorry, but if they were that sorry, would they continually abuse others and go from victim to victim? Not IMO.

 

After the research I've done in psychology, I truly believe that part of this is (sorry to say) they are just generally bad people. I have been abused but have never abused another person and why? Because I choose not to. Abusing someone, raping someone, killing someone...they are all choices.

 

Overall, I believe it's a mix of severe mental problems and that they are just generally bad people. I have no pity for someone who abuses others, regardless of what they've been through themselves. We all choose our behaviors, period.

[itsallgrand]

Beyondthesea,

 

It is quite common for people to hold opinions such as yours. It is an opinion. Also, a moral judgement call.

 

I do not wish to turn this thread into a debate, but I strongly disagree with the knee-jerk reactions that come about (especially once people have a few pysch courses under their belts). This is not aimed particularly at you, merely an observation about your reaction.

 

Abusers and those who allow themselves to be continually abused share a lot off checks off lists. They share the same cycles.

 

It is in the nature of folks to direct their rage, pain, and disguist on abusers.

Likewise, to turn their pity, empathy, and love at those who are being abused.

 

But - that is a surface reaction. If all things are a choice - how to account for those who allow themselves to be abused and to allow their children to be abused? The 'need for power' is equally demonstrated there.

 

Likewise, I don't believe pity is ever an appropriate reaction. So I agree with you there. No one deserves pity.

 

All I am saying is that no good comes from condemnation and judgement calls. In order to bring understanding and eradicate abuse: we all need to look deeper and be careful of our bias/emotional workings. Especially if you are going to be working in the health field...oyy...it's not easy.

 

peace out.

[Beyondthesea]

IAG, no worries. This is a forum and everyone states their opinion and I have done likewise. I have stronger opinions on the subject since I have been severely abused in the past. Also I know you think I have a 'few psyc courses under my belt' but I assure you I have much more than that. I have really done some research on the subject and on bullying, etc. Plus real life experience gives some insight into it that reading from a book would never offer.

 

I don't know how to say this, but haven't you ever seen someone and just KNEW they weren't a good person? That's what I'm trying to say. The abusive people I've met and dealt with in the past all had that negative vibe coming off of them and just reeked with "I'm a bad person!" Now with that being the case, the real question is why do people associate with these individuals?

 

Because like anything (being an abuser, being someone who is constantly abused over and over) it's a cycle, it's a sickness, etc. I'm just saying some people have certain dispositions that seem to match being an abuser/victim, etc. It's really a fascinating subject, just too bad it's an actual problem.

 

How to account for those who allow themselves to be abused: cycle, just like being an abuser. You repeat actions. Insanity is doing the same things over and expecting different results; well, call me a nut.

 

Have you ever been in an abusive situation IAG? I'm curious. I'd say no, because I feel that someone who has been abused would never say 'allow themselves to be abused.' That's a whole new story, but I'll tell you this much.

 

If you met me, you would NEVER believe I would 'allow myself' to be abused. I am very strong willed, determined, good-hearted and opinionated (which is clearly demonstrated around here . In fact, I had always said that people who get into those situations are ridiculous and I would walk if someone ever laid a hand on me.

 

It's like you're brainwashed and tortured and everything all at the same time. Life is like a bad dream everyday, and with no one to help you, your support systems cut off, your mind filled with nonesense...it's a nightmare. And sadly the only thing that gets you from being abused to being free is if you can shatter the glass and walk through without getting your soul shredded on the way out.

 

Do you work in the healthfield? On a personal note: I was going to take a Masters in Psyc, but after being through what I have, I won't do it. There's no way I could honestly assist someone who is abusive, and that isn't the way a professional should be. I can honestly say I will never be unbiased in that respect.

[nottoogreen]

... There's no way I could honestly assist someone who is abusive, and that isn't the way a professional should be. I can honestly say I will never be unbiased in that respect.

Hi Beyondthesea,

 

I have been through a bit of abuse and was exposed to the aftermath of abuse of women with my 1st love and wife of 9 years.

 

Thus I feel with you and I fully understand that it can be impossible to forgive your abuser.

 

I also share your strong feelings on that abusers must be left and stopped if violent or of danger.

 

However I would never refuse to help an abuser to improve. Refusing to help abusers will also hurt future victims.

 

Your above statement makes me wonder whether you are truly over your abuse.

 

Thus I ask whether you are sure that you are over it? and whether you hold any grudges against yourself?

[Aurian]

I don't know how to say this, but haven't you ever seen someone and just KNEW they weren't a good person? That's what I'm trying to say. The abusive people I've met and dealt with in the past all had that negative vibe coming off of them and just reeked with "I'm a bad person!" Now with that being the case, the real question is why do people associate with these individuals?

 

If the person who abused you had this vibe, why did you associate with him/her? I don't think this is true. I did not have any vibe when I met my ex. He was everything I wanted - loving, sweet, funny, intelligent and open. If it was not for this persona, I would not have married him and tried so hard to get that persona back. Sure, NOW he reeks, but back then he didn't have a warning sign over his head.

[Beyondthesea]

I've been abused by family members so I associated it with being a normal relationship.

 

Funny how some abusers show absolutely no signs to start with. Well, actually my ex didn't show me any warning signs until about 6 months in, and by then, I was really hooked. He had treated me like gold until then, so I thought I must have done something wrong.

 

Jeez guys, I'm really starting to feel attacked in this thread.

[DN]

I don't think you are being attacked per se. Abuse brings out strong opinions and not everyone will agree. I think it's good that these issues are discussed because not everyone's situation will be the same and we can all learn from each other. So long as people respectfully disagree, of course.

[Dako]

All the abusers I've seen in action were selfish children at heart.

I know that lacks psychobabble, but that's how they seem to me.

 

Sorry, IAG, just my 2 cents

[Aurian]

Jeez guys, I'm really starting to feel attacked in this thread.

 

I'm sorry if I reacted a bit harsh there. I guess I felt frustrated by that comment because he really didn't show me enough to call him future-abuser (as opposed to flawed human being). He was sweet to me for two years, bounced between sweet and nasty for a third, and outright abusive for the last two. It really shaken me, because two years is a long time to hide something, so how to trust someone in the future?

 

Anyways, sorry for jumping on you. #-o