I just turned 25! And have never dated :(

[corvidae]

That's not right. I'm no hottie' date=' and I don't even radiate happiness or confidence, but I still get my fair share of looks in my daily commute. Some girls have even gone out of their way.[/quote']

 

Well done. I'm very pleased for you. Speaking only for myself, and not for others, I have only ever seen something like this with men who were very very attractive. Perhaps British women are very reserved.

[Raiden]

corvidae, this has long been my argument, too. Every word you speak could be my own.

 

I'd put my own point of view in, but I'd only be reiterating what I've posted about 400+ times before, lol. Thus I'll refrain. If you're that interested you can have a look at my profile/past posts.

 

Suffice to say though that I agree with you 200%.

[Gath]

The Elephant Man, with all the confidence in the world, would not be able to go into a bar and attract women. I can have the greatest confidence in the world as I walk into a maths exam, but if I have not studied then I will fail. I can't bend the universe to my will simply through self-belief. It must be supported by real ability/talent/attributes.

 

 

If the elephant man's only failing is a swollen face with tumors, and he had such confidence you speak of, I guarantee he would not be single. He might not be sitting next to a supermodel, but I bet she'd still be good looking and happy to be with him. looks are not everything. And looks don't last either.

 

I continue to believe that the biggest things that attract a man to a woman, and a man to a women, are things within our control. Your level of fitness, your dress, your confidence, your attitude, your sense of humor.

 

And math is a skill, if you worked on it as much as a confident person worked on their confidence, you'd be able to do that test with one eye closed. Confidence isn't just something you have, it is something you work on every day with every breath. It needs to be fed and exercised, or else it'll wither away.

 

 

edit: just to reiterate, go into any bar and you can find some guy you think is ugly with a pretty gal. At least where I'm from, it is quite common. They might also be buff and tough looking, or suave, or the jester or whatever. Hell, there's even a song about it "Is She Really Going Out With Him". Looks do make it easier, but they aren't everything.

[yeoshe]

Just start asking women out... If a guy asks me out for drinks out of the blue I wouldn't think they're jerks.

 

Also, women our age (mostly) are mature enough to reject men w/o being total witche$...there's really nothing to be scared off.

 

If they say no just walk away thinking "its their lost".

[corvidae]

If the elephant man's only failing is a swollen face with tumors, and he had such confidence you speak of, I guarantee he would not be single. He might not be sitting next to a supermodel, but I bet she'd still be good looking and happy to be with him. looks are not everything. And looks don't last either.

 

At this point you and I can no longer debate, as anyone that thinks the Elephant man could find a woman clearly has an outlook on the world so utterly different from mine as to be incomprehensibleto me.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

At this point you and I can no longer debate, as anyone that thinks the Elephant man could find a woman clearly has an outlook on the world so utterly different from mine as to be incomprehensibleto me.

 

 

as far as most of women go

 

Attitude = attractiveness, not looks alone

 

 

 

you can be butt ugly but if you carry yourself in a manner thats respectable, and you have something too offer on the inside and you can tap into her emotions then you can get the woman.

 

men think the other way around mostly, looks 1st then whats on the inside.

[corvidae]

OK, I'm going to have to disagree with you too there...in my 28 years on this planet I've never seen anything that has made me think that women are any less interested in looks than men are. True the media portray women as being personality-centred but in real life this does not bear out.

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

OK, I'm going to have to disagree with you too there...in my 28 years on this planet I've never seen anything that has made me think that women are any less interested in looks than men are. True the media portray women as being personality-centred but in real life this does not bear out.

 

in my deep freid moist and layered years i have seen and done the oppisite. i get women interested in my personality before anything. thats attraction. theres shallow people everywhere

 

but when we talk about women they make decisions based off emotions.

[Micwu_25]

I agree with SBJ, anyone with confidence can get a girl, even if your ding dong doesn't work.

 

However, telling a person with insufficient confidence to be confident is like telling a person on welfare to go get a higher paying job so he won't have to worry about his rent money anymore. Everyone wants to be confident, but it's not something you can just declare and you get it..especially if you grew up with low esteem.

 

True, true confidence comes from within, but believe it or not that true confidence was built from the environment you were in, most likely when you were a little child. Try telling a 10 yr old child he is an idiot for 1 year, I guarantee he won't have much confidence left. Growing up with low self esteem all your life, it is very very difficult to raise your confidence. You can't truly alter your confidence without changing your environment. Inner confidence changes a person's environment(friends, job, girlfriend, etc), on the other hand a person's environment changes his/her inner confidence. It's interlinked. Question is, chicken or egg first. It's got to start somewhere and I suggest you do both at the same time, faking confidence the best you can and put yourself in an environment where you can make successful accomplishment(ex. getting a girl to say yes, see below on how)

 

I suggested this before and some old fashion lady was offended but I am going to say it again. Forget morality, do what works and what will help you. Just like everything else, practice made perfect. Practice on someone that is less intimidating then upgrade after you get better. With zero successful experience you are not going to get the woman of your dream the 1st try.

 

P.S. I am speaking from personal experience

[Miss M]

I suggested this before and some old fashion lady was offended but I am going to say it again. Forget morality, do what works and what will help you. Just like everything else, practice made perfect. Practice on someone that is less intimidating then upgrade after you get better. With zero successful experience you are not going to get the woman of your dream the 1st try.

That "old fashioned lady" must have been me, because I'm "old" and yeah, I'm still "offended."

 

Don't "practice" on women, because we are also real live human beings with feelings, hopes, emotions, fears, problems, etc. Don't use a woman (who you don't really want) just to build your cofidence and then toss her aside so you can upgrade. Geez.

 

P.S. I am speaking from personal experienc

And hey, I'm also speaking from experience, naturally.

[bubblyblonde11]

Go have a ONS on holiday, worked for me. I was a virgin til I was 22 and had only slept with my ex ex, so after we split I knew for me it would be a really big deal sleeping with someone else so I went on holiday with the girls and found someone.

 

Just an idea. No one got hurt, well apart from when we broke the bed...lol

[Micwu_25]

lol, if the op can get an ONS then this thread subject should be "How to disappear after one night".

 

For a girl getting ONS is no problem but for a virgin guy, how to get "one" girl, ONS or LTR or whatever is a big problem.

 

Going abroad to practice is a good idea though.

[Micwu_25]

Miss M,

 

I can understand why you get offended if you were used as practice many times but really, by Darwin's Theory Of Evolution if you are in the bottom of the food chain and don't improve yourself you get eliminated.

 

How is a virgin without any experience going to get better? Reading the self help book can only help so much(if at all). If he goes and ask the girl he is totally ga ga over and gets so nervous that he can't even think straight and start sending flowers with "I love you's" after first date, make all kinds of mistakes before the girl finally ends his misery(if he gets that far) he will only feel smaller and smaller.

 

Sure, watch lots of love movies/tv shows, copy the movie characters and be considerate of the girls' feelings...then come back and tell us when you finally get your first lay. I wouldn't expect to hear from you for A WHILE though.

 

Or you can see what the playboys(I am not one) do(none of which will be approved by Miss M) and learn from them.

[Dating Coach]

How are you supposed to have confidence if no-one has ever made you feel good about yourself? Eh? How confident and self-assured would you feel if you have never managed to get a date? Somewhat of a downward spiral I think. Don't forget, women almost never reveal that they are attracted to men, thereforeeee men never get the little confidence boost that all women get everytime a man flirts with them, asks them out or even just looks at them.

 

I was looking at online video's recently that were coming from Mystery's bootcamps. When someone said something about confidence Mystery replied... "Competence or Confidence? When you jump out of an airplane with a a parachute... do you want to have the confidence to pull the string, or the competence?" The point is that you may be confident in yourself and approaching woman, but it's better to be competent, to know what you're doing.

 

For instance, a confident guy at a bar might be able to easily walk up to a girl and say, "What's up baby? Can I buy you a drink?" but he's still going to fail because he wasn't compentent. He didn't understand social interraction with women to know that when you walk directly up to them with a blunt straightforward approach you're being just like the last doofus who did it. You're like too many others and she knows you want to hit on her. Her defensive barriers are raised before she's ever had a chance to get to know you.

A competent person would be able to get the conversation going without raising her defensive barriers, by coming accross as unthreatening, that his approach wasn't to "hit on her". This allows him the opportunity to present "himself" to her so she can make up her mind on you and not your approach.

[Dating Coach]

OK, I'm going to have to disagree with you too there...in my 28 years on this planet I've never seen anything that has made me think that women are any less interested in looks than men are. True the media portray women as being personality-centred but in real life this does not bear out.

 

Maybe you're focusing on looks as your scapegoat because it's the one thing that may beyond your control to help... so it justifies giving up. Perhaps you just actually believe this. I don't know. What I do know is that looks... don't... matter... that... much.

 

What matters? The whole package. I've seen plenty of ugly dudes with hot girls. At the gym on Sunday I saw this smoking gorgeous babe working out with this ugly guy. He was in shape, but he looked ugly and smelly. I thought he was a personal trainer or something until they starting kissing.

 

What matters? Value. What is your value? Value is composted of a lot of different things, and the mean different things to different people. To achieve the most success you'll have to focus on what is generally true. In dating there isn't a universal truth. There are always exceptions, and the exceptions don't make them better or worse.

 

So... speaking generally... and I am talking like 95% of the women out there and even a greater percentage of the physcially beautiful women... Value is best defined as looks, personality, social status, and social skills. You may be a 6 out of 10 on looks, but if you are the leader of your group, the guy that everyone looks up to, if you are funny and fun, if you say something and people stop to listen, etc then your social status is going to be very high. If you also understand social skills, especially with female interaction, then you combine all of that then you're going to be very attractive. You're going to have a high value.

 

Most people like to date at their own value or above. This is why you generally see celebrities date celebrities, or Prom Kings date Prom Queens. They see them as their equal or superior, and that's attractive, they've secured someone of high value. Are you going to see a 10 date a 3? Probably not. A 10 could date 100 3's in a heartbeat. You're going to see a 10 date a 10.

 

The way you get a 10 is to make them think you're an 11. If they see you as their social equal or their social superior then they will be more apt to be attracted to you. Why would a 10 date someone so much lower than themselves? They're always going to have to deal with the fact that they think they can do better.

 

And this isn't just looks, I am talking about Value. If you're a 6 on looks but you're a movie star, you're going to have high value. You're going to be able to date someone more physically attractive to you because even so, you still have higher value. The same thing with money. A lot of people say, "Women are attracted to guys with money". No. But being rich assists you on establishing yourself as someone of higher value. You're "somebody". No one is attracted to a "nobody" unless they feel themselves as a a nobody and are fearful of placing themselves at risk by being with someone who is somebody.

 

A buddy of mine was talking about this cute and funny girl at college whom was dating a guy who wasn't that good looking and had a zero personality. The guy always followed her around like a puppy dog, and was very jealous and vindictive to random guy friends she had. Why? He knew she had more value than he did so he was scared of losing her. She knew this too, how could she not? But why was she with him? Security. She felt safe. She knew he wouldn't leave her. Why would he? He scored way above his own value.

HOWEVER... did he satisfy her? No. She knew she could do better but was fearful of putting herself out there emotionally by going for someone of her own value in fear that they would dump her or leave her hanging. So what happened? She stayed with the guy... but she cheated on him. Multiple times. And she would always feel guilty and complain that she wasn't a * * * *... but people thought she was because she cheated. Her problem was that she was more attracted to guys of her own social value or greater, but didn't feel "safe" with them because if they were that high then she feared them being drawn away.

 

Looks are but one thing. You want to find out your value and you want to realize that you have a lot to offer. You also must realize that you can improve and become greater, and the more value you have the more others will see it which gives you more options. With more options you increase your selection in finding the right one.

[corvidae]

Actually I think I have quite a high value. I'm a Doctor, I earn a good salary, I decent person with strong ethics and I've been told I have a good sense of humour. I'm also socially adept. All in all I have a pretty high opinion of myself.

[Dating Coach]

Actually I think I have quite a high value. I'm a Doctor, I earn a good salary, I decent person with strong ethics and I've been told I have a good sense of humour. I'm also socially adept. All in all I have a pretty high opinion of myself.

 

But do your actions portray this to the women you talk to? You can't just believe it yourself, you have to exude this high value (but not too much, there is this little things called arrogance that turns people off)

[Raiden]

But do your actions portray this to the women you talk to? You can't just believe it yourself, you have to exude this high value (but not too much, there is this little things called arrogance that turns people off)

 

Not to nit-pick, but what is the specific difference(s) in showing confidence in yourself, when in conversation (with a girl, in respect of what we're talking about here) and coming accross as arrogant?

 

Surely if you had a passion for your job, your life et all it would be a great conversation piece. As opposed to appearing dull and uninteresting, anyway.

[shy2cool]

Actually I think I have quite a high value. I'm a Doctor, I earn a good salary, I decent person with strong ethics and I've been told I have a good sense of humour. I'm also socially adept. All in all I have a pretty high opinion of myself.

 

Maybe women think that you're too good to be true?

[Sweet Buttabean Jellayroll]

Not to nit-pick, but what is the specific difference(s) in showing confidence in yourself, when in conversation (with a girl, in respect of what we're talking about here) and coming accross as arrogant?

 

Surely if you had a passion for your job, your life et all it would be a great conversation piece. As opposed to appearing dull and uninteresting, anyway.

 

arrogance is how someone preceives it...........

 

but most likely if you do nothing but praise yourself your seen as arrogant

 

having confidence is just being comfortable with yourself, its not something you think of when you do it

 

such as me

 

i dont have too think about confidence when im rapping, i just do it beacuse i know i can do it

 

same with girls, you know you can talk too them, so thats confidence

[Micwu_25]

Not to nit-pick, but what is the specific difference(s) in showing confidence in yourself, when in conversation (with a girl, in respect of what we're talking about here) and coming accross as arrogant?

 

To me confidence shows in your body language, not in words. Two persons can say the exact same words but the one with confidence will be taken more seriously.

 

arrogance is mostly words trying to hide a person's insecurity.

[Dating Coach]

Not to nit-pick, but what is the specific difference(s) in showing confidence in yourself, when in conversation (with a girl, in respect of what we're talking about here) and coming accross as arrogant?

 

Surely if you had a passion for your job, your life et all it would be a great conversation piece. As opposed to appearing dull and uninteresting, anyway.

 

I'm not sure I understand your question. What are the difference in showoing confidence and arrogance? Confidence at a healty level is simply showing that you care and believe in yourself without putting the other person off. If you atart taking your self confidence to a level where it looks like you're looking down on others or trying to brag to make yourself look better... this can be taken as arrogance.

[Raiden]

I'm not sure I understand your question. What are the difference in showoing confidence and arrogance? Confidence at a healty level is simply showing that you care and believe in yourself without putting the other person off. If you atart taking your self confidence to a level where it looks like you're looking down on others or trying to brag to make yourself look better... this can be taken as arrogance.

 

I just meant talking about your passions, and using this as your conversation piece, when appropriate. I didn't mean talking endlessly about your job/car/salary. That's just boring and irritating. Natch.

 

My question was, I suppose: assuming a guy can't think of anything better to talk about (on a date), rather than sitting there in silence, he talks about his career and personal interests, primarily. What are the chances that this is interpreted as arrogant?

 

Hope that makes it more clear.

[Dating Coach]

I just meant talking about your passions, and using this as your conversation piece, when appropriate. I didn't mean talking endlessly about your job/car/salary. That's just boring and irritating. Natch.

 

My question was, I suppose: assuming a guy can't think of anything better to talk about (on a date), rather than sitting there in silence, he talks about his career and personal interests, primarily. What are the chances that this is interpreted as arrogant?

 

Hope that makes it more clear.

 

Well I wouldn't advise that conversation at all unless the girl is interested in your line of work. Going on and on about you shows poor social skills as you aren't being very attentive to the other persons comfort and boredom.

Why not instead ask questions about their hobbies and such?

[corvidae]

So to summarise:

 

In order to get women men need to have a high sense of value, regardless of how they have been treated in life, but this should be just below 'arrogance', arrogance being a subjective judgement on the part of the women. We're supposed to approach women, but women don't really like being approached, unless it's in a certain way that makes them feel like they are not being approached. Also, women don't like if they are NOT approached as this hurts their self-confidence, BUT women don't seem to realise that men need positive affirmation too...so we never get any. If you do all of this, and don't get confused and go mad in the process, then you might be able to get someone to go out for coffee with you.

 

...I hope women realise what a tough time men have.