Marriage:

[xmrth]

I hear these two things:

When you're with someone for a long time, you should be able to, or start to, openly discuss marriage.

 

Then I hear, people in their early 20's (20 and 21... both halfway through the year) should NOT be talking about marriage.

 

So what is it with me and my boyfriend? We have been with each other over 6 years, and while I used to feel like we HAVE to talk about marriage, I'm starting to realize all the important factors (money to afford it, for one thing)

 

But at the same time, I get discouraged when my boyfriend won't open up about it... he never -really- has, but has in it's place, he has shown that we're always going to be pushing forward.

I guess I feel really rushy because we've been together for so long. He mentioned living together in a couple of years when he's more established and will have money, and I will be out of college by that time.

 

To be honest, given the amount of time we've been together, I do NOT want to wait... I want all of that right now. I'm even starting to realize how old we actually are, that wow we are young... But he talks about turning 22 in a few months, and making it sound like he will be so old, and he was the same way when he turned 21. So he's not thinking he's still young, and I really never have felt I was too young for more, but maybe that's because of how I am.

 

I want to talk about our future-- I want him to say that someday we'll be married, and I want him to talk about us living together some more... I feel like the more I read on relationship forums that more people are already talking about this sort of thing, but I never hear from the couples who are like me-- and if I do, everyone's telling them to get out of their relationship.

 

I'm not so bothered by us not talking about it, but I AM impatient. I don't feel like those are the same things. I just feel like because we've been together for so long, we should talk about it, I guess...

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

__Martha.

[Dako]

You should get married right away before you get even more ancient.

 

Seriously, I can't imagine getting married until you've experienced a few things like finishing school, starting a career and enjoying the fruits of your labor. These experiences will change in ways you can't imagine, and you'll be better off with some flexibility and autonomy so you can socialize, travel and try your wings a little more.

 

It's hard to see your peers getting married and settling down, but according to statistics, many will have a rough time. Of course you may just be the exception, but waiting to marry increases your chance of success.

 

I'm sure you feel you've done it all and want it all at 20, But you'll be amazed at what happens in the next 10 years.

[shes2smart]

Well, for whatever it's worth, I didn't even consider marriage for myself until I was in my mid-30's. Wasn't ready to make that kind of commitment before then, and didn't want to make the all-too-common mistake of marrying young and regretting it 5 or 10 years down the road.

 

By waiting, it allowed me to establish myself professionally (and financially), gave me the opportunity to travel to different places, date a lot of different people, and have long-term relationships with a few of them. I also got the chance to grow up a lot emotionally & spiritually. I am not the same person I was 20 years ago...thank God. So, when I did meet the man I would marry (when I was 37) I was ready to make that kind of commitment and had enough life experience to be able to handle the boatload of stuff that inevitably comes along with living without freaking out, stressing out or completely crumbling. I'm talkin things like unemployment, financial & health issues, family crap, deaths and so forth.

 

If I'm reading your post correctly, you've been with the same person since you were 14 and you're 20 now. I'm guessin' you don't think you're missing much, but when I think of the experiences and growth I would've missed out on if I had been in a relationship with the same person from essentially late junior high through half of college....well, it would make coping with life in general much more difficult....much more scary.

 

I think the course of action you want to pursue is likely to set you up to feel like you've missed something later in life....when you hit your 30's or 40's. I also know that you probably won't be able to see that now.

 

People I knew in high school and college didn't see it comin' either...but like clockwork, by the time our 10 year class reunion rolled around, a good 1/3 of those early marriages had failed or were on the skids. By the time our 20 year class reunion rolled around, about 1/2 to 2/3 of those who got married under 25 were divorced & single or divorced & on marriage #2.

 

Last guy I dated before I met my husband got married in his early 20's. He'd gotten this girl pregnant and blah blah blah. When I met him, he was in his 50's, twice divorced, and single for the first time since his early 20's (He'd gone right from marriage #1 to marriage #2 in less than a year). We broke up in part because he was still trying to make up for all those years he missed out being single when he was young.

 

Lemme tell ya, there are few things sadder than a guy in his mid-50's trying to be hip and hitting on girls half his age because he didn't have enough backbone to postpone marriage whe he was a young man.

 

If someone wants to have children, then the issue of age vs. fertility needs to be factored in. Generally speaking, however, I think the more life experiences and personal growth one can have prior to getting married only increases one's chances of having a long-lasting, healthy marriage. The fewer life experiences someone has, the less personal growth they have achieved, and the less "together" they are on their own, the more likely their marriage is going to wind up crashing & burning.

[Dako]

Great advice, Shes2smart!

 

I got married at 28, and even that seems too young to me.

 

 

I did wince at "nothing sadder than a guy in his mid-50's trying to be hip..."

But you're right!

[Huntsman]

I guess I feel really rushy because we've been together for so long.

 

= You're worried your attraction levels will decrease.

 

To be honest, given the amount of time we've been together, I do NOT want to wait... I want all of that right now.

 

= If you depend on him financially he will dump you eventually.

 

I want him to say that someday we'll be married, and I want him to talk about us living together some more...

 

= When he does this your sexual attraction will plummet, but your instinct to feel provided for will feel satiated. Double edged sword, but divorce will be on the cards.

 

I'm not so bothered by us not talking about it, but I AM impatient.

 

= You think your value will decrease in his eyes, as his value increases in society. You want to secure him, and quick. All perfectly natural.

= IF YOU DO THIS, it will kill your sex life. And he will leave you.

 

= Focus on sexing him right, and treating him well, and working on your own value and goals. Wait for him to propose. Desperation is the most sexually unattractive quality - even if you've been together for 20 years.

[shes2smart]

Great advice, Shes2smart!

 

I got married at 28, and even that seems too young to me.

 

 

I did wince at "nothing sadder than a guy in his mid-50's trying to be hip..."

 

I'm sure you have more sense & class than he did. He was very desperately (and obviously) trying to make up for lost time.

 

My father once told me (when he was more than a little tipsy) "Well, your mother was 28 and I was 32 when we got married, and I think it might have been a little too soon."

 

In another conversation, at another time, my mother expressed a simliar sentiment.

 

Ever since I started looking backward at my 40th birthday, I can't believe how young 20-something seems......scary. You never think you're gonna get to a point in your life when exciting topics of conversation will be "should I refinish the hardwood floor myself or should I hire someone to do it?" but then you find yourself having just that conversation and being way more into it than you probably should be.

 

Ugh. When did I become an adult?

[Hope75]

I am 30, and would still like to finish my degree before getting married. I have been with my guy for 3 years, living together most of that time, and I know I want to be with him forever and to be married to him, but we would both like for me to be established in my career, and satisfied with my life before we get married.

 

I would say given your age, there is no reason to rush things.

 

Yes, you've been together for 6 years, but much of that time you were both still children (started at 14- right?) You have both just come out of your teens within the last few years, and late teens early twenties is such a time of discovery about yourselves and change. Ask anyone over the age of 26 and they will tell you, they did alot of thinking and changing during their early 20's.

 

You yourself are still in college, I don't know if you have mentioned whether your boyfriend is in college or not, but what do you think about finishing college and getting established in careers, saving some money for a home and a wedding before you push tying the knot?

 

If you are going to be together forever, 5 more years isn't going to kill you.

 

You both have so much to learn about yourselves and each other and life in general...

 

There is a reason your guy isn't bringing up marriage every day-- he's not ready. Should he be? at 21- not yet 22, probably not. I think he's being smart. I go to school with a friend who's 39. He married his wife when he was 32- after 12 years of dating. Before they married, they both went to college, got their degrees, established careers, travelled together, bought some land, built a house, and then, when they were ready, got married. They now have 2 beautiful sons, ages 4 and 2. My friend looks very fondly on the time they dated and were 'carefree', travelling and seeing the world, enjoying each other, knowing they would always be together, not feeling a rush to "make it official".

 

Marriage should be discussed when both parties are ready.

 

Wouldn't you agree?

[Huntsman]

Well, for whatever it's worth, I didn't even consider marriage for myself until I was in my mid-30's.

By waiting, it allowed me to establish myself professionally (and financially), gave me the opportunity to travel to different places, date a lot of different people, and have long-term relationships with a few of them.

 

= You exude too much masculinity. No man has ever led you correctly, in the manner in which you deserve as a sensual woman. Look at your father, your father figure, your exes: I think they were either not present, let you down, or simply expressed too much yin.

 

I also got the chance to grow up a lot emotionally & spiritually.

 

= Yes, but what did you miss out on?

 

I was ready to make that kind of commitment and had enough life experience to be able to handle the boatload of stuff that inevitably comes along with living without freaking out, stressing out or completely crumbling. I'm talkin things like unemployment, financial & health issues, family crap, deaths and so forth.

 

= A 20 year old can deal with this stuff if they are spiritually balanced.

= They are immaterial to life's purpose anyway.

 

think the course of action you want to pursue is likely to set you up to feel like you've missed something later in life....when you hit your 30's or 40's.

 

= What about what she misses now? Like having children?

 

People I knew in high school and college didn't see it comin' either...but like clockwork, by the time our 10 year class reunion rolled around, a good 1/3 of those early marriages had failed or were on the skids.

 

= That is a failure of the individual; cannot be blamed on age.

 

If someone wants to have children, then the issue of age vs. fertility needs to be factored in.

 

= Ahah!

 

= You have given the wrong advice for this girl.

[xmrth]

You couldn't be further from the truth. I don't even know how you came to those conclusions...?

[RayKay]

Great advice from Shes2Smart.

 

When I was your age, I was definitely knowing I was NOT ready to get married yet, yet at the same time, I thought I could do it if it happened. Now, I am really glad I did not at that age. The amount I have grown in the last few years spiritually, emotionally, in terms of my independence, my interests, my goals, is something I would not trade for anything and I think marriage would of really limited those.

 

My mum got married at 21...I know she had wanted a longer engagement but she felt pressured by her own parents then. Now, marriage at a younger age was more common then, but I know it was something she wishes she had waited on...she had three kids by the time she was my age, and was freshly divorced too. Her life changed a lot...she was in university studying to be a teacher, but when she got pregnant, after she had her degree, she found herself raising kids at home, because my dad was on the road so much. Now she loved doing that, and wanted to be home, but she wishes she had more independence first. When my dad cheated on her, she was stuck, when he finally left, she had three kids, a mortgage, a job, and was going back to school...I don't know how she did it...and it worked out well, and she does not regret having us, but I know there are things she wished she had waited for. She had no idea yet what it was all about, or enough about herself to know if she was even marrying the right one! She did find that person AFTER that first marriage though and things have worked wonderfully for her and my stepfather.

 

Marriage is important to me. But for the right reasons. I want to marry my boyfriend. We have talked of it. It's complicated now as I need student loans again soon, and if we were married, his income would bar that from happening (he has a lot of school debts himself though so we don't have much net income). So, while we do live together, and engagement is possible, marriage needs to wait until we can afford my school without loans. We love one another, and that IS a fantastic reason to get married...but not the ONLY one. We also have made sure we are compatible on all levels - we can communicate, we can resolve conflicts, we can be our own persons and be there for one another, we share similar goals for our future together including family/children, our lifestyles are compatible, we support one another in our goals, we are part of each others families, we are aware of one another's debts and financial personalities, we truly know we will be there for one another, and for our relationship, we have similar priorities, all the nitty gritty that is not so glamorous, but so important. We are just at that stage in our lives and have had enough life experiences to know we can do it.

 

You have been together with your bf a long time. You have grown up together...you were truly children when you got together. I think you still both need to still grow up individually. Not necessarily apart, but grow more into yourselves as individuals before you take those steps. You are both truly very young. I know it might not seem that way now, HE might not feel that way now, but when you will look back at the age you are now in a few years and realize you were still a newborn in so many ways. Trust me, you WILL change. I have known SO many people to get married sooo young, some have children, others not, but of all those couples, I know so very few that are still together even 5 years later. Look another 10 years in and the stats are even more vicious. If you get married under 25, you have a 43% greater chance of divorce then the already 50% rates! (saw that on CNN the other day). That's HUGE! But there is a reason...because you ARE still growing in so many senses.

 

Your boyfriend is not discussing it as he is truly not ready. And he knows it. I can't say if he will be or not at a certain time, but I can say that at this age, he is doing the right thing by not going that path yet. Marriage truly takes two complete souls to work, and that takes maturity, experience, shared goals, and time to get there. Take your time. You are young, you have many years before you need to worry about children for example. Learn about yourself, about each other, enjoy your time together and when the time is right, if you are meant to be, it will happen.

[xmrth]

Should I be expecting him to reconsider our relationship because we've been together since we were 14 and 15?

It sounds hopeless for us almost after reading the responses...

But then again, having one life to live, I would think everyone wishes they'd have done things a million different ways... I don't know. It's like nobody should ever even bother getting married or something.

 

I just wanted to add that I appreciate the comments, but it makes me feel like it's hopeless at the same time, you know what I mean?

Such as, how do I know that I myself will feel that way, and things like that. It's kind of like disregarding what has been said, but I don't mean it like that because I did ask for other points of view... I'm just saying, or maybe just asking, should I expect this to be hopeless?

[RayKay]

 

= You have given the wrong advice for this girl.

 

You are way off the mark with some of your comments. You cannot just say someone's advice is "wrong" because it's not the same as yours. I would say that your comments that if she put out more, he would marry her are "off the mark" however - considering it is not even addressing the poster's concerns and issues in the least.

 

The whole point of the site is posters have different views, insights, from their own experiences, and the original posters realize this.

 

She is 21. There IS plenty of time to have children yet. While yes as you get older (ie past 30/35) there are more risks, and difficulties, it is certainly not impossible...the people I know whom have had children in their 30's are happy they did as they were more established and prepared emotionally and financially for them. Better to have them with the right one, even if it means waiting, then have them by rushing into it.

 

And it IS true that younger marriages have higher failure rates. Yes, because of the individuals involved...because they were not ready.

 

No one said NO younger ones work out, but take a look around, maybe do some more research on the poster in question, and realize that everyone's case is individual and should be taken as an individual case.

 

Better to be wait a few more years to have children when they are TRULY ready to be married, then rush into it, discover it's not as simple as love, and end up divorced with kids going through it as well.

[Dako]

Hopeless?

I would think being 20, attending college and have a great BF would be a great situation to be in.

[DN]

You are way off the mark with some of your comments. You cannot just say someone's advice is "wrong" because it's not the same as yours.

 

The whole point of the site is posters have different views, insights, from their own experiences, and the original posters realize this.

 

Well said, RayKay. No one on here has a monopoly on wisdom.

[lunatic]

Well said, RayKay. No one on here has a monopoly on wisdom.

 

***Applauds*** *Standing Ovation*

 

I agree with DN on this one! RayKay could not be more on the mark with that post.

[shes2smart]

Should I be expecting him to reconsider our relationship because we've been together since we were 14 and 15?

 

Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was. For the vast majority of people the period of time between mid teens and all the way up to late 20's is a time of trying a lot of different things (in ALL areas of life) in an attempt to figure out who you are. Part of that is having relationships with different people.

 

In particular, the decade between 19 and 29 is a time of a lot of growth and changes for most people. I met my college bf when I was 19, when we split up I was 27. He was 2 years older than me. Neither of us were the same people we were when we met and we had literally grown apart because we grew in very different directions. There was no cheating, no animosity, nobody did anything "wrong." We just were not going the same direction in our lives and once we realized that, we had a choice - stay together while one or both of us suffocated due to being unable to grow in the direction we, as inidviduals, were being pulled OR split up, be true to ourselves, follow our own paths and remain friends. To this day, he's the only ex I am friendly with...but his life is very, very different from mine in every aspect -- income, hobbies, interests, lifestyle, etc.

 

So, it's normal that your bf might be feeling the urge to see what else is out there. It's no reflection on you at all. I'm a little surprised that the thought hasn't crossed YOUR mind...at least wondering what other guys would be like or what your life would be like if you weren't in a relationship. You've never experienced being single as an adult...don't you ever wonder what that's like?

 

Someone who hasn't had a chance to explore (in all areas, not just sexually) as much as they want to is going to eventually chafe at being restricted. They will likely feel they missed out on something...much like my 50-something ex-bf...during the entire sexual revolution in the 70's, pre-AIDS, was married and and still felt like he missed some great party 20 years later! I think someone in that situation would be more prone to cheat when/if an especially interesting AND interested person crossed their path. God knows my 50-something ex-bf was trying to nail anything female who showed the slightest shred of interest...even if it was just interest in his wallet.

 

That was really one of the good things about waiting til later to get married for me -- I was able to get that all out of my system...I was done being single -- I'd achieved what I wanted to career-wise to that point, I was in a good place financially, I'd travelled a bit on my own (nothin' like taking a solo vacation...it's a true luxury...), I'd been through tons of therapy and had my head screwed on right, I'd done all the relationship/sexual experiementing I cared to and so on.

 

I had a healthy relationship with myself (& still do)...which meant I was gonna have a much better shot at having a healthy relationship with someone else = healthy marriage.

[Hope75]

So, it's normal that your bf might be feeling the urge to see what else is out there. It's no reflection on you at all. I'm a little surprised that the thought hasn't crossed YOUR mind...at least wondering what other guys would be like or what your life would be like if you weren't in a relationship. You've never experienced being single as an adult...don't you ever wonder what that's like?

 

Well said, S2S.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Neither of them really has any idea what's out there, they have never explored other options.

 

Martha, Since puberty you have been together, and have likely done alot of growing and changing since then. Are you ever curious about what else is out there? I know you've had alot of problems with your boyfriend, particularly with him excluding you completely from his social life for the last several years... I see that as part of the feeling restrained in the relationship that S2S talked about.

 

He's a a prime age to go out, party, and enjoy feeling single, he's never had that. It's almost like he's doing it as much as he can by leaving you out of it, and then coming to you when he feels he wants a relationship.

 

You are reaching the age of discovery too, and I worry so much about you because I think you have built your whole life around him and this relationship, you know nothing else.

 

Honestly, I don't think yours is a healthy relationship because you have so little self identity outside of the relationship, and it seems, little self esteem.

[xmrth]

He's told me seriously that he thinks dating around is for high school and he's too old for that. This is what I meant by him talking about being "old" at 21, and now 22 coming up.

I have only thought about seeing what was out there in high school as well, and that's only because I never would have thought we would last having been so young.

 

I really do wonder that in place of this, that's why he likes to go out and have fun with his friends without me tagging along. I would take that over him being interested in someone else... I never really thought about it, but I really do think that might be how he feels in place of seeing what else is out there. Even while being with him, I can still see how other people are... I'm just not interested in the least bit... I just don't see how I'd be able to deal with other guys and the ways they are and the things they're interested in. I just couldn't deal with it, and that's my story on the subject.

 

I used to think that marriage was what I wanted the MOST, but then him bringing up us living together before engagement, made me think differently because I always thought engagement/marriage would come first.

I'd be content with living with him for the next couple of years before being engaged. But that itself won't even come until then. He's already out of college-- well, he will be this month, and he's already worked full time and has money in stocks and retirement. I don't have that... but in another 2 years I will be out of college myself. So I think that is when we'll see something happen but I CAN'T BECOME PATIENT... I don't know what to do about it.

[melrich]

He's a a prime age to go out, party, and enjoy feeling single, he's never had that

 

I think that is part of the problem Hope. He is out living the single life. It is Xmrth who has never experienced it.

[xmrth]

From what I've posted about, is he really living it now?

Wouldn't it be a good thing that he still is a good boyfriend in all areas other than him liking to hang with his friends without me and things like that...?

I just don't think that he is... I also don't want to do things just because now is the only time I can. I don't want to lose out on something that makes me happy just to go out with other guys and party just because now is the time to... I've never been like that, and probably never will be. We're together -now-, so I'm going to work towards a future with us because that's what I truly want. It doesn't matter to me what I'll want years from now. I don't even know that I'll disagree with this choice, anyway.. I want to live for -now-.

[melrich]

From what I've posted about, is he really living it now?

 

Yes I think that is exactly what he is doing. He is in a position I think plenty of 21 year olds dream about. Girlfriend at home but able to get out with his mates and be a single guy pretty well whenever he wants to.

 

Wouldn't it be a good thing that he still is a good boyfriend in all areas other than him liking to hang with his friends without me and things like that...?

 

Well my guess is that most people would not put up with it. But as I have advised you before, you don't have to be most people. But if you are going to accept the arrangement, then accept it. You cannot just keep questioning it.

 

As for marriage. Well you guys have known each other long enough. You seem to accept everything that is missing in the relationship and he seems to be pretty happy with the way it all works so why not start thinking about marriage.

[xmrth]

I could never imagine him getting all up on a girl talking to her like he's single.. he just goes out with his guy friends. Some of them are single, but not all of them. The thing with right now is it's just because his friends were back on leave from the army that he's been out. Otherwise he's always with me on Friday and Saturday nights all of the time... it's pretty much when they're back on leave that he ever even goes out. My posts on the subject are always about when they're back because then he's actually out.

I would still like to go too but I suppose it must make up for him never going out and always being in with me or something. I don't think that makes it better, but that's just what it seems like.

[RayKay]

Martha,

 

Has he ever said he wanted to get married (to you, or at all)? As in the future...not now, but down the road? Does he discuss future plans with you in general? What are his general beliefs in marriage, do you know?

 

I know you used to say you did not want to live together unless you were engaged/married....why did you change your mind (just curious!)?

[xmrth]

I only changed my mind because I thought he was ONLY going to live with me if we were married or engaged... and so I never thought about the possibilities of living together before marriage and because of that, I always thought it was a horrible idea.

But then I realized when he talked about us living together, that maybe that's what should come first since I feel hasty as we've been together for so long-- like maybe that's a better choice of what to work towards.

 

He's told me we would be engaged after we've lived together for a couple of years. Which could be anywhere between 1.5 years and 2.5 of living together... in which living together could be between another 2 or 2.5-3 years from now (after he's more established and I'm full-time out of college) That discussion was about a month ago, maybe a month and a half.

I wanted to add though, we still don't sit down and seriously talk about it like "so we'll be married in some years" or even about living together. I feel like we should be able to openly discuss it whenever I feel like it, not just when he feels like it. I don't know if it's just him because he's like that, or if it's because he's that kind of a guy or what.

[melrich]

I think it is probably a good idea foor you to try living together first before getting married. Maybe focus on that for now rather than getting married.