Going Dutch, I'm appalled! I'm just old fashioned I guess

[wastedtime]

So the blind date went really well last week, then we met again today. Everything was going swell until we went to a restaurant and he asked me if I wanted anything, I ordered something and he asked me for $4. (the cost of my meal) I was shocked and played it off like he was joking. We joke around alot so I don't know if he really meant it. I think he did cause he ordered a drink for himself and said "that's it" without asking me if I wanted to drink something. Then we the food arrived he asked if I wanted water and I said "yes". He noticed something was bothering me and asked me what was wrong, I tried to cover it up and said "nothing". But I felt insulted. It was so hard for me to tell him how I was feeling and why.

A gold digger I am not. But I like to be treated like a lady. The other thing too was when I said I was going home, he didn't say "I'll walk you to the train station", so I had to ask him if he was going to walk me and he said ok, that he'll walk me half way, that he had alot of studying to do. Again I didn't like that, so he walked me most of the way. Weird. Whatever happened to romance???

 

The thing that really messes with me is the incident at the restaurant. He has a really good job. So I don't think money is the issue here. I asked a friend about it and she said to tell him "I like to be treated like a lady...." She says he just needs to learn, but I don't wanna have to teach. This topic makes me very uncomfortable to speak about. So, I don't know if and how I will bring it up to him. I really like him, and thought it'd be smooth sailing for us, but this is turning me off. Now I want to avoid restaurants all together with him. But I know avoiding this topic is not the way.

 

The friend that set us up offered to say something to him, but I think it may be my duty to tell him, though it would make it so much easier if I let her talk to him about it. It's just so so so awkard for me.

 

Any thoughts guys? Also when replying guys state your age, I'm wondering if there is an age factor here

[Lexicon85]

I totally understand. The other day, I was taking the bus over to see a man I really like (almost an hour long bus ride), and he thought I was joking when I asked him to meet me at the bus stop because it was dark. I was really offended. Most men I've dated would have offered to meet me half-way, so we could ride the bus together, let alone meeting me at the bus stop.

[Hope75]

While I can understand the reasoning behind dutch treat if you are both broke and both totally cool with it, it sounds like it's more than that with this guy, just plain bad manners.

 

If he didn't even offer to walk you safely to the train station as well, and this is your first date, I don't hold out much hope that in the future things will be different.

 

Especially a 4$ meal... I mean, come on, he could have treated you for that.

 

I would write this guy off, he obviously doesn't have very good manners and if you aren't prepared to accept him as he is, I wouldn't waste any more time with him

[DropToZero]

Haha wow...you two...

 

Umm, so you expected the guy to pay for a random girl he'd met on a blind date...? I hope you're kidding...that's not just being old-fashioned...that's somewhat selfish really. Just because we're guys, doesn't mean we're made of money...we don't have to pay for everything, and really...in a sense, most girls I've met DO NOT want me to pay for dates b/c I've found they feel they must 'owe' me something in respect to it. It's good to go dutch for at least the first 4-5 dates....hell it's better if it's that way almost all the time. If you think a guy should have to buy you something in order for return of YOUR affection, you're totally wrong. That will not happen...if you really liked him, it wouldn't matter if you two hung out watchin rented movies and eating popcorn, or went out to eat....you should enjoy the time he's spending with you and be respectful of that. If he's buying your affection by payin for meals...there's nothing there... That's like a guy saying "Since I can't attract you with my personality and charm, I may as well buy you out by taking you to nice restaurants and paying for everything so you'll like me"...and it's wrong. Now don't get me wrong....chivarly isn't a bad thing...but if you're complaining he's not buyin everything....you'd be gone in my book. I'm not here to serve you(the girl)...we're two equals goin out to have a good time and you should be delighted to pay for your half of the fun...and in time I may begin paying for things here and there for you if you and I are getting along really well after many dates.

 

I hope you understand what I'm saying here above, if you bring it up with him....you're more than likely going to be cut off from dating him....unless he's somehow head over heels already for you. Even then...it seems really selfish to me if really think he's going to pay for everything from now on when you two go out.

[wastedtime]

Are you for real? YOu missed the whole point. No one can BUY me.

Listen, if he can't afford to dine out with me then we don't have to go out. I have no problems with that, but maybe it's a generation thing I don't know. Yeah, in the past I would pay for stuff, but I just see that as something that makes no sense to me now. Actually, yeah he really digs me, alot actually, and I was digging him too. But I need more feedback from you guys. Cause this just doesn't feel right.

[wastedtime]

[annie24]

I don't think you should say anything or have your friend say anything. I always offer to pay my share on the first few dates, but most men say, "no no, I'll get it" just as they should After all, if he asked you, he should pay. Especially a $4 meal.

 

But whatever, I don't mind going dutch that much. But I did one time have a 2nd date with a guy and we had separate tabs. When mine came, he literally *jumped back* from it like it was a spider! geeezzzzz.....

 

Anyways, it doesn't seem like you two are really compatible. You should never expect the man to pay. Usually, I just start "reaching" for my purse, and they will stop me. Even the most broke college students will do this.

 

But, if you're looking for an old-fashioned man who will wine and dine you, (or at least take you to McDonald's without asking for $3.54), then this ain't your man.

 

NEXT!

[lady00]

I agree with Annie. Usually the person who asks the other person out should pay. And out of courtesy the other person should offer to pay. I'm a little confused...did he get your number through a frienda and then ask you out? If he did the asking, he should pay and vice versa. What happened here tho is sort of awkward because he actually asked you to give him four bucks instead of you offering to pay (which, like i said, you shouldn't have had to do if he was the one who asked yo out). I don't think it's good form to ask someone for money...but I also think that the non-payer should always offer.

[shockeddismayed]

 

Are you for real? YOu missed the whole point. No one can BUY me.

Listen, if he can't afford to dine out with me then we don't have to go out. I have no problems with that, but maybe it's a generation thing I don't know. Yeah, in the past I would pay for stuff, but I just see that as something that makes no sense to me now. Actually, yeah he really digs me, alot actually, and I was digging him too. But I need more feedback from you guys. Cause this just doesn't feel right.

 

Well...

 

Although I don't personally agree with this guy, I do think he is for real.

 

It's a pretty weird time these days with who pays... it's often impossible for a guy to know what is expected of them. Some girls want us to pay, others don't. Either way we're wrong 50% of the time.

 

I'm curious why you reacted this way to the other guy though.... if buying you dinner is required for you to "feel like a lady" then there is, by definition, some financial exchange required for you to feel attracted/attractive to a guy. I'm not saying it's wrong, I wouldn't dare... but I'm just saying that I see the other guy's point, and don't understand why you reacted so adversely.

 

Anyway... just to come clean on the issue... I'm 29. I have only recently began dating again after a 7 year relationship gone sour. I've taken the strategy of buying for the first few dates.... this has left me a little short on disposible income (mostly my own doing... I like nice restaurants). So my initial plan was that I would pay for the first few dates with the expectation that we would settle into "dutch", essentially the opposite of the guy above. However it hasn't always worked that way (sometimes the girls just never offer and a pattern is established)... and even if it does, it ends up being an expensive way to get to know someone at $60-100 per night... dinner and a movie just isn't what it used to be.... and it isn't like I can invite a girl over for dinner on the first/second date.

 

Anyway... I guess the point is that we all have different expectations... but what is important is how we react to them and roll with it.

 

If I were you, I'd be more concerned with:

a) the fact he stopped you from ordering a drink

b) the fact he didn't offer to walk you... that's just completely ignorant given safety

 

To me the "who pays" thing is his perogative... and then your perogative to choose whether it's ok with you. But the other stuff was just plain rude and if he didn't notice it, he needs to be told.

 

S&D

[bleeder]

I think this guy either needs a lesson or two in social etiquette, or he totally lacks any sense of chivalry, to say the least.

 

Call me an old fashioned dude, but I still believe that guys should cover the tab when it comes to dating. Whether you are drawn to your date or not, that is an entirely different matter.

 

The fact that he didn't even bother to walk you to the station shows his level of concern. If I were you, I'd drop him. Don't waste your time with someone whose behaviour you are not comfortable with.

[wastedtime]

Well I've been out of the dating scene for 7 years. SO this seems all new to me.

 

Btw, the walk to the train station was during the day so it wasn't dangerous or anything for me to walk alone, just customary in my opinion.

 

NO, paying for my meal doesn't make me feel like a lady. It just seems so cheesy going dutch. I think it's tradition for me. And yes HE asked me out on a date and also at the restaurant HE asked me if I wanted anything.

[annie24]

yeah.... forget him. I usually like being walked home also, unless it's a blind date. Then, no. On the second date, maybe.

 

He's a cheapskate. and needs etiquette lessons

[arwen]

Going DUTCH?

 

 

 

Doesn't sound Dutch to me, this lack of etiquette.

[Celadon]

This guy sounds a little to matter-of-fact to me, wastedtime. Mister everything-has-to-be-equal. If you don't want to teach him some relationship skills, then cut him loose now. I wouldn't blame you.

 

But you might give him another shot too. Some dates I've gone on, we play the "I'll get it next time" game or do the "I'll get the tip" offer. Perhaps this may not go well with your expectations, but it's not so bad, providing you do earn an income.

 

Instead of going Dutch, grab the whole bill - then say coyly, "Oh, you can get the tab next time." That way, there's a relationship established, some give and take, and not just two people being insanely equal about everything.

 

About walking you to the station, it WOULD have been nice - but perhaps he figured it was daytime and you could walk yourself back safely. It was a total lose of a statement for him to make that he doesn't have time because he has to study, though. Negative points for him on that one!!

[annie24]

hehehehehe....

 

 

You've never heard that phrase ilse?

[arwen]

Yes, I have, and believe you me we have a couple of similar expressions for Americans here. But I am a minority here, so I will behave

 

Ilse.

[wastedtime]

Yes, I have, and believe you me we have a couple of similar expressions for Americans here. But I am a minority here, so I will behave

 

Ilse.

 

I hope you weren't offended Ilse. In the US "going Dutch" means when a couple splits the tab on a date.

[arwen]

 

 

I am less offended than you should be about his behaviour!

[DropToZero]

Are you for real? YOu missed the whole point. No one can BUY me.

Listen, if he can't afford to dine out with me then we don't have to go out. I have no problems with that, but maybe it's a generation thing I don't know. Yeah, in the past I would pay for stuff, but I just see that as something that makes no sense to me now. Actually, yeah he really digs me, alot actually, and I was digging him too. But I need more feedback from you guys. Cause this just doesn't feel right.

 

I missed the whole point?...how ...the title of your post is "Going Dutch..."

 

I don't care if he can't literally buy you out, it's what it looks like and it's wrong... Now one thing I did miss I'll admit is that he cut you off in the middle of ordering...sorry there, but you could have brought that up yourself and just said something instead of just acting like nothing was wrong. See what most guys don't get...is when a girl says 'nothing' is wrong, we believe it lol....mostly because we don't want to know something is bothering you. It just adds some unwanted tension if something is going wrong during the date.

 

It's not a 'time' based thing...or old-fashioned...it's just not how things should be. Should I mention the first time I went out with this one girl..I paid...then the 2nd time...I paid, despite her telling me she didn't want me to pay for her. I said she could pay next time we went out(and yes things were going well)...but know what?...I never got a 3rd date. Recently...I went out with another girl, and I paid for the tickets, and she paid for the food at the movie theater....and I didn't order a lot, but we all know the food is much more expensive than the tickets at the theater. All this girl wants to do is just be together, she doesn't even really care if we go out somewhere....but this has nothing to do with your age or being 'out of the dating game' for so many years.

 

I could go somewhat in depth in saying this idea has to do with 'mothers' and the way they teach their sons to treat women. I'll tell you right now...if I was still listening to my mother on how to get a girl...I would be a very lonely guy right now. I know it used to be an old-fashioned thing that the guy would pay for everything in dates...but things haven't changed in 7 years that much.

[wastedtime]

Well, all these responses are making me think.

 

Here's the thing, this guy and me, the first time we spoke (even before we ever met) on the phone we talked for an hour and a half! Then, on our first date we really hit it off, and it went so smoothly. He called the friend that introduced us to eachother to tell her what a good match we were. How much he liked me, he thought I was beautiful, how happy he was, etc.

He is truly a nice person, he's has some really nice qualities. In New York and in this day and age those are hard to find. I am not desperate or one to settle, but I feel we are connected, and are compatible in many ways. We share the same views on alot of things.

 

So what am I to do? I don't know. Maybe eat before I see him.

[Mun]

You don't need to teach him a lesson, just don't go out with him again.

 

There is nothing wrong with paying your share AFTER you have been on a few dates and especially when you are already a couple. But on the first date he should be especially courteous and pay your meal, especially if it's 4 dollars. To me any man who demands you pay your half right off the bat is a man who has nothing to offer and will be stingy with other things too like : his time ( remember the walk to the train?) and further down possibly his affections. Ditch him.

 

This is 2005, but that doesn't mean a man should forget his manners. It's not about the money. I'm sure you can pay your own meal. It's about a man taking out a lady and showing her a nice time, providing for her comfort and being a gentleman. He sounds like if you had offered to pay for the whole meal he would have accepted--not a guy you want to be dating.

 

Better luck next time.

[venus777]

hey- i think that if you can't talk about this with him, then how are you going to talk about REAL DEEP issues. This is something pretty superficial (I think) that two people should be OPEN about. How are you going to talk about sex? How are you going to talk about a potential future? How are you going to talk about expectations in a relationship?... if you can't talk about how to split the bill, if it should be split, or if one person is buying? Be upfront about this!!

[apollocreed71]

First of all did he ask you to go eat, or did he ask you for a date. the best way is clear communication. not really a money issuse, but as a guy, a will ask a guy or girl friend to go eat, i do not pay for their meal, same deal with movies, etc. now If i ask a girl on a dinner date then i would pay, you really need to define your type of meeting. another thing just to meet someone an start paying for little dates can get expensive, cause if we are all honsest most of the time its not going to work. in todays society why do so many women want to be old fashioned in that aspect, the guy pays, women fought for equal rights, pay, jobs, etc, now they have that, yet still want to old ways too. in the past, i mean when women really did not work men made all the money, did most of the work, so it was natural for the man to pay for everything.....today things are different...do not be offended....just look at how people are today. there are alot of gold diggers out there, so maybe he is being careful. do you pay for all your friends everytime you invite them to to out.

 

simple rule...

lets go out= dutch(pay yourself)

can i take you out= the asker pays

[Mun]

I don't think you can really label a woman a gold digger if a man is paying for her 4 dollar meal. Come on!

 

Also, yes things have come a long way, but most of the time men are still making more money than women. Wish things had come a really long way that we could be making the same pay for the same work.

[apollocreed71]

not to say its right. but 50 years ago the only a few women made more money than men, unless they were born into money. today yeah men still get paid more for the same job, however women are more educated now, and often times make more money than alot of guys they meet. 50 years ago it just was not so. i never called her a gold digger. but honestly there are a lot of women out there who want men to pay for everything. i know girls who just go to clubs to get free drinks, cause guy are trying to get laid...thats life....i wish the world was a pettier place. and when you first meet someone, its hard to tell, there are a lot of good liars out there.