Why is research such an offensive thing anymore?

[Batya33]

Just now, Cynder said:

Yea, like the example I gave of me being visually impaired.  I actually really like it when people ask me questions about it.  What I don't like is when people make assumptions, try to test me, etc.  I like it when I get the chance to educate someone.  I wouldn't get pissed off if some author with 20/20 vision wrote about a blind character, either. 

And a lot of these people get pissed about being misrepresented in the media... but then don't want to provide information when people ask how to accurately represent them. 

But this is not for the media. It’s for a personal project and some may be concerned there is no novel and you have some odd or prurient interest. 

[Cynder]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. If I was going to do that that is how I would. 

Well, the reason I didn't is because these communities really frown on that.  Asking someone for emails/PMs is against the rules in most of these communities. 

[Batya33]

Just now, Cynder said:

Well, the reason I didn't is because these communities really frown on that.  Asking someone for emails/PMs is against the rules in most of these communities. 

So then I’d choose to ask someone by phone or in person - do some networking. I get you’re scared. And uncomfortable. So are they or assume so. 

[Cynder]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

But this is not for the media. It’s for a personal project and some may be concerned there is no novel and you have some odd or prurient interest. 

The word media can mean anything in entertainment.  Books, music, movies, TV.  It's just a lot easier to type media than typing all the different things where fictional characters/concepts are presented. 

And I plan on publishing this novel.  At some point other people will see it and read it for entertainment.  And ok, even if there was no novel and I was just asking to ask, that's not a reason to threaten doxing or say I should be in prison, IMO. 

[Batya33]

Just now, Cynder said:

The word media can mean anything in entertainment.  Books, music, movies, TV.  It's just a lot easier to type media than typing all the different things where fictional characters/concepts are presented. 

And I plan on publishing this novel.  At some point other people will see it and read it for entertainment.  And ok, even if there was no novel and I was just asking to ask, that's not a reason to threaten doxing or say I should be in prison, IMO. 

Right. I was just referring generally why I understand those who decline or are concerned. You’re also hiding behind a screen. You want a favor. They’re entitled to decline. I’m sorry some declined in an impolite way. Online can be like that in many ways. I’d move on and not waste time getting all stressed about it. I gave you my opinion on how to approach your research. 

[Cynder]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So then I’d choose to ask someone by phone or in person - do some networking. I get you’re scared. And uncomfortable. So are they or assume so. 

Well, I'm not going to just call up some random person I don't know, most likely at work since I would have to call the police department, CPS offices, the hospital, etc, to get ahold of these people, and ask them questions about my novel. 

[Cynder]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Right. I was just referring generally why I understand those who decline or are concerned. You’re also hiding behind a screen. You want a favor. They’re entitled to decline. I’m sorry some declined in an impolite way. Online can be like that in many ways. I’d move on and not waste time getting all stressed about it. I gave you my opinion on how to approach your research. 

It's not people declining that's the issue.  I just don't understand threats of doxing, etc over a few questions. 

I'm trying to understand why it pisses people off to that degree when someone asks a question about their job that they do every day.  There are things I just don't get.  That's why I started this thread.  Like, is there something I'm missing?  Is it really taboo to ask people stuff like that and I just never realized it?  Like it says in my OP, there are things it took me a really long time to figure out because sometimes I just don't understand certain social things, etc. 

[Jaunty]

18 minutes ago, Cynder said:

It's not that I'm surprised.  I just don't understand why wanting to be accurate is so offensive. 

I don't think it's that at all.  It's just that the individuals who responded to you in the way you're posting about were not open to it,  probably for reasons mentioned here.  They did not want their personal experiences to be "harvested" for the sake of fiction.  There were probably others on that group who would have been fine with it who just didn't read your post or maybe didn't feel inspired to respond.

I would agree with the person who suggested asking for people to reach out to you if they were interested in sharing their perspectives.

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Cynder said:

It's not people declining that's the issue.  I just don't understand threats of doxing, etc over a few questions. 

I'm trying to understand why it pisses people off to that degree when someone asks a question about their job that they do every day.  There are things I just don't get.  That's why I started this thread.  Like, is there something I'm missing?  Is it really taboo to ask people stuff like that and I just never realized it?  Like it says in my OP, there are things it took me a really long time to figure out because sometimes I just don't understand certain social things, etc. 

there’s nothing to understand except certain individuals were triggered.  This happens a lot in online interactions. Could be some of them are intruders or not supposed to be in the community and enjoy riling people up. I would assume nothing. 

[Cynder]

1 minute ago, Jaunty said:

 

I would agree with the person who suggested asking for people to reach out to you if they were interested in sharing their perspectives.

Asking people to message you isn't allowed in a lot of places on Reddit.  There are some communities that will outright ban someone for that.  And even if you don't get banned, the post will be removed.  A lot of communities even have bots that will catch certain words and remove the post instantly.  That's why I didn't do that. 

[indea08]

Perhaps call your local police department or family services office and ask to do a ride along. Don’t mention your novel, don’t ask intrusive questions, just learn. It may take several attempts to learn what you need.

Honestly, I think it would do well for your book, too. Describing the steps taken at the scene is one thing. Using your words to evoke the feelings and the heaviness of the scene…that’s an entirely different experience for a reader. You may capture it more profoundly once you’ve felt a taste of the reality.

Best of luck on your novel.

[Seraphim]

Can you ask someone who teaches CPR? They tend to know a lot . 

[itsallgrand]

Wow you got a lot of great responses and I think everyone had something to add and it is probably a combination of these things.

I'd add that it's very common nowadays for media to pull content straight from forums and use it for everything from articles to rage bait to anything else you  can think of. People are less trusting out of necessity in what they share and to who. They have no idea who you actually are. If you are verified, you might get more responses to what you seek, but I wouldn't necessarily know if that's worth it in this situation. I think you'd be better off researching the old fashioned way if getting those details right to a time and place are important. Old fashioned way meaning finding and reading relevant sources, and feet on the ground talking to people in real life ..but again, foot on the ground, people may want verification of what you doing and who you are. 

 

[Wiseman2]

A lot of movies, TV and books have technical advisors for this reason. They'll hire a police consultant or legal consultant or medical consultant for the purposes of accuracy and believability in fiction. Reddit forums is probably not the best place to get accurate information about what happens at a crime scene. 

[tattoobunnie]

Writers (especially for novels) write what they know.  If you have any friends that are cops, I would recommend going out with them one day.  Fire stations also are willing to help teach people about fire safety.  And, you can shadow EMTs. Going to a forum where no one is exactly a protocol expert, and you are going in hot, these people don't know you.  Even if all your books are fiction, it should stem from some experience with it or the concept of something.  Strangers (especially Reddit) don't care to school you.

[Batya33]

I've done creative writing -a long time ago -I'm a bookworm for 54 years now, an avid reader.  Oddly -I think -I love reading the acknowledgements section of a novel.  I read a fair amount of crime /suspense and historical fiction -all of which requires research.  What I see are lists of names of people who assisted with research and very very often the places the author visited including libraries/archives/historical landmarks, etc and also very often contact with the local police department for example.  I've never noticed any discussion of "thank to ____ online forums I popped into for helping me with my research."  I mean maybe the person also did that but not as a main thing or focus. 

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

A lot of movies, TV and books have technical advisors for this reason. They'll hire a police consultant or legal consultant or medical consultant for the purposes of accuracy and believability in fiction. Reddit forums is probably not the best place to get accurate information about what happens at a crime scene. 

In a perfect world I would be able to afford to hire a whole team of technical advisors, but I'm poor, unfortunately, lol. 

The whole concept behind Reddit is that there are communities about everything and anyone can go there to learn about whatever they want.  But some places there don't really understand the point of the site.  They have this whole, "How dare you come here to learn!" mentality. 

Some of the artist communities over there get really hung up on what makes someone a "real artist."  I've seen so many debates about that that I don't bother participating in because both "real" and "artist" are concepts that are hard to define. 

But, I mean, it's one of the few platforms online where people can be truly anonymous.  And that brings out the worst in people. 

[Batya33]

It’s not about perfect world. What I notice a lot is these authors network and get out there. You’ve been given suggestions that take time but are free. Or maybe you offer home baked cookie or some gift for their time. I don’t think most new authors hire technical advisors at great expense but I could be wrong. 

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

Writers (especially for novels) write what they know.  If you have any friends that are cops, I would recommend going out with them one day.  Fire stations also are willing to help teach people about fire safety.  And, you can shadow EMTs. Going to a forum where no one is exactly a protocol expert, and you are going in hot, these people don't know you.  Even if all your books are fiction, it should stem from some experience with it or the concept of something.  Strangers (especially Reddit) don't care to school you.

See, pretty much every writer I know hates that quote.  Mark Twain said it, but he didn't even follow it 100%. 

If everyone only wrote what they know, fantasy, scifi, and about 99% of horror wouldn't exist. Neither would apocalyptic fiction, futurism, speculative fiction, etc. 

If I only wrote what I know, then all my characters would be female.  They would all be around my age or younger (because I don't know what it's like to be older than I am.)  They would all work jobs I've worked.  They would all live in places I've lived.  They would all only have interests that I have or have had in the past.  They would all be Bisexual.  They would have all been raised Catholic.  They all would have alcoholic parents.  They all would have OCD. They would all be white with an Italian background. They all would be visually impaired. Etc

And, self inserting is something that's frowned on.  If an author inserts themself into their story they are usually mocked for it.  So, if people are supposed to write what they know, then they would only write about things they've experienced and all their characters would be just like them.  And then all they would ever hear is "OMG!  She put herself in her story!  That's like, SO TACKY!"

Generally, from what I've seen, it's people who don't write who say that.  Just like people who aren't artists tell artists "You have to suffer for your art!"  Artists don't have to suffer for anything.  People think because Van Gogh was miserable, all artists have to be.  Picasso wasn't miserable.  He partied a lot.  He had beautiful women chasing him all his life.  He was famous and made good money.  He wasn't suffering.  DaVinci and Michelangelo didn't suffer.  I don't know why Van Gogh is the standard all artists are held to by non artists.  I mean, yea, Van Gogh was a genius.  But because he suffered doesn't mean all artists need to be just like him. 

[Cynder]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It’s not about perfect world. What I notice a lot is these authors network and get out there. You’ve been given suggestions that take time but are free. Or maybe you offer home baked cookie or some gift for their time. I don’t think most new authors hire technical advisors at great expense but I could be wrong. 

Yea I don't know any indie authors who can afford technical advisors.  Traditionally published authors have that stuff made available to them because their publisher pays for it.  Indie authors pay for everything.  It's not a cheap process. 

I never said I was against networking.  The whole point of this thread wasn't to ask for how I can get my questions answered other ways.  I was trying to understand why people get so upset when I ask the questions.  To me it just doesn't make sense.  I'm visually impaired.  That's something that has caused me a lot of issues in life.  But if someone asked me about it online I wouldn't get all pissed off at them for asking. I have OCD.  That's caused me more pain than anything, honestly.  But if someone asked about it online, I wouldn't get pissed.  Even if they were doing research for a book.  I would rather someone come to the source than just make stuff up and perpetuate stupid myths. 

Perfect example, this idea that visually impaired people touch people's faces to know what they look like.  People think that because they see it in movies and on TV.  Visually impaired people hate that because we don't do that. 

And all these myths about OCD are why society has pretty much made OCD into a punchline.  And it's also why everyone thinks they have it and they treat it like a cute quirky personality trait.  "OMG!  I'm so OCD!  I like my cups stacked a certain way!  Tehehehe!!!!"  No, Stacey, you're not.  And you should really be thankful because OCD sucks.  It's not cool and it doesn't make you a special snowflake. 

[Batya33]

I think you also got a lot of input about why. I understand you’re frustrated by the reactions on these online forums. I don’t agree with your analysis. I think you’d appreciate agreement so I’ll let others chime in. I like others also thought you wanted alternatives. Sorry I misread. 

[catfeeder]

Hi Cynder, are there any writer's groups where you could ask how they do their research about these subjects?

 

[Cynder]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think you also got a lot of input about why. I understand you’re frustrated by the reactions on these online forums. I don’t agree with your analysis. I think you’d appreciate agreement so I’ll let others chime in. I like others also thought you wanted alternatives. Sorry I misread. 

I never said I didn't get input about why. 

[Cynder]

Just now, catfeeder said:

Hi Cynder, are there any writer's groups where you could ask how they do their research about these subjects?

 

The one writer's group I'm really active in online is a critique group.  They don't allow non critique posts there.  But, there are other groups out there. 

This is off subject.  But I was trying to start a meetup group for people in my city who write.  This was in November when NaNo was happening and there were NaNo groups in every city around here, but mine.  And when I posted about it in my city's Facebook group I got banned from the group, lol.  A mod told me I was banned because "You're a man asking people to meet up with you.  We don't tolerate there here."  (Something like that, I don't remember exactly word for word what it said.) Another case of all men are evil, and people thinking I'm a guy. Smh.  

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Cynder said:

In a perfect world I would be able to afford to hire a whole team of technical advisors, but I'm poor, unfortunately, lol. 

My favorite legal thriller author is John Grisham because he's an attorney and therefore the accuracy (plus some Hollywood poetic licence) is often there. You could try researching things at the library and reading novels about forensic situations.

For example, in your example about the EMTs you seem to be trying to ask yes/no questions. If there's an OD and a murder, what do they do first? However you leave out the most important part which is that a medical examiner investigates crime scenes after EMTs, police and a host of officials are on the scene. 

Libraries have tons of free information that is probably much more reliable than anything on Reddit.  So researching for a novel is a great idea but consider your sources. 

Here is a list of some legal thrillers 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/john-grisham-books-best-new-b2076023.html