Why is research such an offensive thing anymore?

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Hi Cynder, are there any writer's groups where you could ask how they do their research about these subjects?

 

I was going to ask this too - based on the response to me I take from that she is not looking for advice on what to do alternatively- she is upset at how she was treated and is wanting to share that and figure out if it was normal.  The writer's group was my first thought too but then thought better of it.

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Cynder said:

I never said I didn't get input about why. 

I never said you said that ;-).  You confirmed to me you weren't looking for alternative path - that's how I took what you wrote obviously I could have misunderstood. Good luck with your novel!

[Cynder]

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I've done creative writing -a long time ago -I'm a bookworm for 54 years now, an avid reader.  Oddly -I think -I love reading the acknowledgements section of a novel.  I read a fair amount of crime /suspense and historical fiction -all of which requires research.  What I see are lists of names of people who assisted with research and very very often the places the author visited including libraries/archives/historical landmarks, etc and also very often contact with the local police department for example.  I've never noticed any discussion of "thank to ____ online forums I popped into for helping me with my research."  I mean maybe the person also did that but not as a main thing or focus. 

I really like reading the acknowledgments, too.  I didn't plan on thanking the whole forum.  I have always said in these posts that I will include anyone who helps me out in the acknowledgements.  Most of the people who have helped me in the past tell me to not even worry about it because it was a question or two that took maybe a minute or two to answer. 

I think it's funny that so many people think me visiting a forum and asking questions is this awful thing, but if I were to Google the same questions it would probably bring up a lot of results from forums. 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Cynder said:

I really like reading the acknowledgments, too.  I didn't plan on thanking the whole forum.  I have always said in these posts that I will include anyone who helps me out in the acknowledgements.  Most of the people who have helped me in the past tell me to not even worry about it because it was a question or two that took maybe a minute or two to answer. 

I think it's finny that so many people think me visiting a forum and asking questions is this awful thing, but if I were to Google the same questions it would probably bring up a lot of results from forums. 

I didn't read the responses here that way at all.  Good luck with your novel and - I also enjoy reading the acknowledgements from the authors who wrote/published during covid/pandemic -and especially those who did need to research!  I just finished Not A Happy Family -a crime thriler -but her newer book I think wrote about her challenges during the pandemic.

[Cynder]

20 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. Talking to colleagues. Not doing a favor for a stranger writing a novel. Different if you wanted to be a CPS or EMT worker and wanted to sort of have an info gathering discussion or a question about licensing or training. 

Actually posts like that aren't allowed on the EMS community.  I don't remember if the CPS one has a rule against that.  But the EMS post was pretty recent.  They don't allow posts from people wanting to get into their line of work who are looking for info.  I know this for a fact because I read the rules before posting. 

I can't help but notice the irony here.  I'm being told that I should have done this or that, but those things are against the rules there, and stated pretty clearly in the rules.  This is for EMS.  CPS might be a little different.  But I always read the rules before posting somewhere I'm not familiar with.  SO I'm guessing the CPS sub has similar rules in place. 

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Cynder said:

Actually posts like that aren't allowed on the EMS community.  I don't remember if the CPS one has a rule against that.  But the EMS post was pretty recent.  They don't allow posts from people wanting to get into their line of work who are looking for info.  I know this for a fact because I read the rules before posting. 

I can't help but notice the irony here.  I'm being told that I should have done this or that, but those things are against the rules there, and stated pretty clearly in the rules.  This is for EMS.  CPS might be a little different.  But I always read the rules before posting somewhere I'm not familiar with.  SO I'm guessing the CPS sub has similar rules in place. 

I'm not interested in discussing the alternatives anymore because it seems your focus is more on the specific situation and your disappointment/frustration.  I commented on that. I don't see any irony and I see you are reading the responses in a way I am not -different interpretations, it's all good. Writing a novel especially with research is so hard - I hope it works out.

[Cynder]

So, I have an update to this thread if anyone is interested. 

Last night, I got a message from an EMS worker.  This person saw my post before it was removed and they actually offered to answer my questions that I posted and any other questions I have in the future.  This person has worked in different capacities in the field for almost twenty years.  They offered to show their credentials and prove they are the real deal and everything.  They told me they think it's really cool that someone is actually trying to write this stuff accurately and not like they do in Hollywood.  Like, you always see in movies when someone drowns... someone does CPR for like a minute, and then the drowned person coughs up a bunch of water, opens their eyes and starts talking.  And it's like nothing happened.  That's so not realistic.  CPR actually has a really low success rate.  And if someone is brought back with CPR, they aren't just going to get up and walk away.  But anyway, this person has offered to help me out, and they will get credit and I'm not even against throwing some money their way when I can afford it, if they are comfortable with that. 

And something else, this is just really interesting timing.  Another author I know recently had a really similar experience.  This was also on Reddit.  He is writing a book that takes place in a city he's visited but has never lived in.  So he went to the sub for that city and asked a few questions, like Is there some expression that locals use there that people from out of town wouldn't know?  Are there local businesses that are really well known that have been around for decades, etc.  He got his ass chewed pretty good, too.  And this wasn't even about anything traumatic or sensitive.  It was about a city.  So, as much as it sucks that people treated him this way, it is strangely validating for me to read about. I'm not the only one who thought of asking questions on Reddit, for one.  And this just goes to show a lot of people are just mean, regardless of what you're asking about.  He was told he should stick to writing what he knows, and if he's never lived there he shouldn't be basing his book there.  It's interesting how no matter how dark or light the topic, people have some of the same issues. 

My next novel that I'm outlining right now takes place partly in Phoenix and part in Las Vegas. Hopefully no keyboard warriors find out I've never lived in either city, lol. 

Also, I just think I should point out, asking questions on Reddit isn't the only research I've done.  I spent a lot of time listening to 9-11 calls, both for overdoses and also where someone was killed and the murderer calls 911 to report it.  There are all kinds of compilations of YouTube.  I also did a lot of reading about what happens to a person during an overdose, etc.  Honestly, the scene that takes place from the victim's perspective was a lot easier for me to write considering I've come really close to death. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone who gave their input here.  I appreciate it.  I do have a better understanding of why some people were upset.  I can't graph it emotionally, but I can see the logical side of it.  In my mind I'm thinking since these are people who do this for a living they probably have a pretty thick skin when it comes to situations like this.  It seems like someone who can't handle that kind of work wouldn't decide to do it.  This is why I've never worked in a vet clinic.  I know I couldn't handle seeing animals suffer every day.  I'm really not trying to argue and say I'm right,.  This is just my line of thinking and why it doesn't make complete sense to me.  That's all. 

Ok, it's almost 8AM, bed time. 

 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Cynder said:

Last night, I got a message from an EMS worker.  This person saw my post before it was removed and they actually offered to answer my questions that I posted and any other questions I have in the future.  This person has worked in different capacities in the field for almost twenty years.  They offered to show their credentials and prove they are the real deal and everything.  They told me they think it's really cool that someone is actually trying to write this stuff accurately and not like they do in Hollywood. 

Wow that's great!

[catfeeder]

Isn’t that something. I guess the keyboard warriors jump on everyone before clearer heads can address anything. Glad you heard from someone who is willing to help.

You know, our local paper hosts community boards for towns, and I’ve noticed when people try to post an experience or ask a question for discussion, there are increasing numbers of grumps who try to police those threads too. They get bent out of shape over the most innocuous stuff.

 I guess since Covid there’s been a huge decline in generosity and social support all around. Maybe this has a blanket effect thrown over those who are still tapped into the good in people.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Isn’t that something. I guess the keyboard warriors jump on everyone before clearer heads can address anything. Glad you heard from someone who is willing to help.

You know, our local paper hosts community boards for towns, and I’ve noticed when people try to post an experience or ask a question for discussion, there are increasing numbers of grumps who try to police those threads too. They get bent out of shape over the most innocuous stuff.

 I guess since Covid there’s been a huge decline in generosity and social support all around. Maybe this has a blanket effect thrown over those who are still tapped into the good in people.

My nextdoor site is like this.  What I've found -not sure if pandemic related at all -I will offer to help with my time -or a referral like to a doctor or the like - or help with job advice - and the person might follow up (sometimes in a private message) and poof disappear without saying thanks or acknowledging. I now write "please message me if you want a referral/advice/introduction to a particular person or group" I find this screens in the people who really want that information so I don't waste time.  

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Isn’t that something. I guess the keyboard warriors jump on everyone before clearer heads can address anything. Glad you heard from someone who is willing to help.

You know, our local paper hosts community boards for towns, and I’ve noticed when people try to post an experience or ask a question for discussion, there are increasing numbers of grumps who try to police those threads too. They get bent out of shape over the most innocuous stuff.

 I guess since Covid there’s been a huge decline in generosity and social support all around. Maybe this has a blanket effect thrown over those who are still tapped into the good in people.

Yea, and a lot of the subs are ran by keyboard warriors anymore.  Yea, I'm really glad this lady reached out to me. 

My city's Facebook group is exactly like that.  About the only posts that don't spiral into crap talking and arguments are posts asking for business recommendations.  Like people asking for a good plumber in town or something.  Everything else just gets twisted around.  I remember seeing a post there where someone asked if anyone else noticed the mail being delivered late in a certain neighborhood and knew why.  Well it devolved into people just yelling at this person for not respecting mail carriers and how hard their job is, etc.  People posting, "Hey, our dog got out last night.  We live on XYZ street.  Here's a pic of him.  Please let me know if you see him." Get yelled at for being irresponsible pet owners, etc.  I don't even post there anymore. 

And yea, I agree.  People have gotten a lot meaner since the pandemic.  I've even noticed this at festivals.  I've had the occasional rude customer in the past pre-pandemic.  But post-pandemic, it happens a lot more. 

[Cynder]

On 1/23/2024 at 3:11 AM, Wiseman2 said:

My favorite legal thriller author is John Grisham because he's an attorney and therefore the accuracy (plus some Hollywood poetic licence) is often there. You could try researching things at the library and reading novels about forensic situations.

For example, in your example about the EMTs you seem to be trying to ask yes/no questions. If there's an OD and a murder, what do they do first? However you leave out the most important part which is that a medical examiner investigates crime scenes after EMTs, police and a host of officials are on the scene. 

Libraries have tons of free information that is probably much more reliable than anything on Reddit.  So researching for a novel is a great idea but consider your sources. 

Here is a list of some legal thrillers 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/john-grisham-books-best-new-b2076023.html

I know this thread is old news now, but I did want to take time to thank you for this. 

I didn't go to the library, mainly because the Library here in my city closes really early most days and I sleep during the day when they are open.  But I did do tons of research in other capacities.  I listened to hours of 9-11 calls.  Both calls for overdoses and also calls where a murder was reported.  I also did read a lot on what the effects of the drug my character is overdosing on feels like, etc.  It's not Heroin, so it wasn't as easy to find that information. 

I want to thank you particularly for understanding the kinds of questions I asked.  They were pretty much, yes or no questions.  Hey, if someone is overdosing, and a murder just took place one room over in the same house, the cops and EMS arrive at the same time, who would go in first?  That was one question I couldn't find a straight answer to anywhere online.  It wasn't some big emotional question where I was asking people to dredge up traumatic memories of all the bad things they've seen, etc. 

I'm glad a few people understood this.  Simple questions.  No psychology required. 

I haven't read any Grisham yet, but I've been meaning to.  I know he's really good.  Thanks for the recommendations. 

[Seraphim]

On 1/23/2024 at 7:32 AM, Cynder said:

So, I have an update to this thread if anyone is interested. 

Last night, I got a message from an EMS worker.  This person saw my post before it was removed and they actually offered to answer my questions that I posted and any other questions I have in the future.  This person has worked in different capacities in the field for almost twenty years.  They offered to show their credentials and prove they are the real deal and everything.  They told me they think it's really cool that someone is actually trying to write this stuff accurately and not like they do in Hollywood.  Like, you always see in movies when someone drowns... someone does CPR for like a minute, and then the drowned person coughs up a bunch of water, opens their eyes and starts talking.  And it's like nothing happened.  That's so not realistic.  CPR actually has a really low success rate.  And if someone is brought back with CPR, they aren't just going to get up and walk away.  But anyway, this person has offered to help me out, and they will get credit and I'm not even against throwing some money their way when I can afford it, if they are comfortable with that. 

And something else, this is just really interesting timing.  Another author I know recently had a really similar experience.  This was also on Reddit.  He is writing a book that takes place in a city he's visited but has never lived in.  So he went to the sub for that city and asked a few questions, like Is there some expression that locals use there that people from out of town wouldn't know?  Are there local businesses that are really well known that have been around for decades, etc.  He got his ass chewed pretty good, too.  And this wasn't even about anything traumatic or sensitive.  It was about a city.  So, as much as it sucks that people treated him this way, it is strangely validating for me to read about. I'm not the only one who thought of asking questions on Reddit, for one.  And this just goes to show a lot of people are just mean, regardless of what you're asking about.  He was told he should stick to writing what he knows, and if he's never lived there he shouldn't be basing his book there.  It's interesting how no matter how dark or light the topic, people have some of the same issues. 

My next novel that I'm outlining right now takes place partly in Phoenix and part in Las Vegas. Hopefully no keyboard warriors find out I've never lived in either city, lol. 

Also, I just think I should point out, asking questions on Reddit isn't the only research I've done.  I spent a lot of time listening to 9-11 calls, both for overdoses and also where someone was killed and the murderer calls 911 to report it.  There are all kinds of compilations of YouTube.  I also did a lot of reading about what happens to a person during an overdose, etc.  Honestly, the scene that takes place from the victim's perspective was a lot easier for me to write considering I've come really close to death. 

Anyway, thanks to everyone who gave their input here.  I appreciate it.  I do have a better understanding of why some people were upset.  I can't graph it emotionally, but I can see the logical side of it.  In my mind I'm thinking since these are people who do this for a living they probably have a pretty thick skin when it comes to situations like this.  It seems like someone who can't handle that kind of work wouldn't decide to do it.  This is why I've never worked in a vet clinic.  I know I couldn't handle seeing animals suffer every day.  I'm really not trying to argue and say I'm right,.  This is just my line of thinking and why it doesn't make complete sense to me.  That's all. 

Ok, it's almost 8AM, bed time. 

 

That is great someone is willing to help you .