Why is it narcissistic when I know what ppl feel, but not when others know?

[NighttimeNightmare]

I have an issue that keeps repeating itself in my life that I can’t seem to navigate or figure out.  It’s regarding “knowing,” and “not knowing.”   All my life I thought I knew everything I needed to, other people didn’t matter, and the idea of them having their own thoughts and feelings seemed otherwordly to me.  I thought for people, assumed for them, felt for them, etc  Life was really just a world I created and people were puppets.  I lived like this for a long time, until I realized my ideology made me abusive to those I cared about.  So, I went to therapy with several specialists and I no longer think this way  

 

However, I definitely struggle with extreme black and white thinking, that I presume will always be there in some degree. It’s something I try to manage and overcome, but it’s just what it is.  Because of this, I definitely see the world in pretty big extremes in comparison with people who don’t have this issue.  It’s difficult for me to be aware of grey-area nuances, etc. which seems to cause people to often think I’m not understanding or grasping things on purpose, in order to manipulate them, or that I’m somehow naive. When in actuality, I just don’t see grey areas.

 

Ffwd to post therapy: when I engage with people, in particular people I’m interested in romantically, I found I do the stark opposite of what I always used to do: instead of thinking I know everything and overriding their autonomy, I’m convinced I know nothing, which may not be such a bad thing, however, but I believe I’m doing it to the opposite end of the extreme. For example, instead of being able to “read the room” as it seems many can, I find myself frozen hoping for big neon signs that can show me what to do in absolutes. I have had my absolutes I trusted in completely taken from me, even though they were often wrong, they still guided me. Now I have nothing. 
 

here’s an example: I’ve posted before about my friend who I’ve got feelings for.  Things have been progressing with us it seems, and I was telling some friends about it.  I explained that I went to her house and we talked for a few hours, had dinner, and she dimmed the lights and we watched a show.  I sat next to her, with my hands in my pocket, because I was petrified of offending her in some way.  The old me would have been like, “I’m the king of the world, the most desired of them all, I know that you want me so I’m going to make a move because why else am I here?”  But now I’m sat there going, “oh god I was wrong so many times before. I have no idea what anyone is feeling or thinking, yes I’m sitting close to her and the lights are dim. God she looks good. But she’s just friendly and I can’t assume this is anything other than that”

And while I actually think those things are true, ie: none of us can know what someone else is thinking or feeling, most people are able to read the room and gauge what’s going on

Case in point, when I told my friends this story they all agreed (male and female friends) that they thought she wanted more and one of my friends asked if I was dumb (albeit, in the most loving of ways).  I said none of this is fair, you all say I’m narcissistic when I assume and state I know things, so why is it ok for you all to suddenly claim you know?  How can you be so sure she wanted me to do something? It makes 0 sense.  So it’s not ok when I assume, but it’s ok for others to?

they explained it’s about reading the room. Yada yada.  And I mean, I understand aspects of that because it’s not normal to have to stop someone every 2 minutes while communicating and ask for clarification, there’s a lot our brains should be able to fill in naturally, and in most my everyday life I can do this just fine  

but in other areas, when it comes to personal things, like another’s feelings, “reading a room” is odd to me.  Someone sitting by me and dimming lights doesn’t mean they want something, but many people in that situation would have made a move.  But how/why when you can’t truly know anything, and how can some be sure of things but when I’m “sure” I’m called an a**hole 

 

[Kwothe28]

Quote

Why is it narcissistic when I know what ppl feel, but not when others know?

Its not?

You lack nuances. That you even know yourself, I dont need to repeat it to you but will try to explain since I dont think even you understand a difference and a magnitude of it.

Narcissistic behavior you described very good since I think you have gone to therapy for it. So you know what you did before was that. How you assumed you are the best person in the room, how you always assumed other side likes you etc. However, there is a difference between thinking and acting like a narcissoid, and just acting in accordance to a situation.

Narcissoid would ignore all those signs and straight up go for it. With no regard of other person feelings even if they would say otherwise.

Nuanced person would read the signs, see that the other person maybe wants the same as them and maybe act accordingly and try something, for example maybe complimenting and even touching the other person.

Insecure one would doubt themselves and do nothing even if the situation was right for it.

You skipped the middle one. You went straight from "I am the king of the world" to "I am nobody and she may not even like me". There is nothing wrong in being confident. You dont have to be a king of the world. But you can say to yourself how you are good enough and that person see that in you. You just have to find nuances for yourself. And not fluctuate between two extremes.

[Batya33]

23 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

You skipped the middle one. You went straight from "I am the king of the world" to "I am nobody and she may not even like me". There is nothing wrong in being confident. You dont have to be a king of the world. But you can say to yourself how you are good enough and that person see that in you. You just have to find nuances for yourself. And not fluctuate between two extremes.

I agree. There's a middle ground.  I have to go to a social event for the parents of the high school freshman at my son's new school - I know few of them since the school is private and over 10 miles away.  Another parent I know is reluctant to go because how new she is (some of the parents have kids who went to a private middle school together).  But she said she likely will go.

It's nuanced - it's not either or.  I'm not going to be Miss Popularity there and in that crowd being too chatty/extroverted would be a bad idea.  But if someone is friendly to me  even just politely of course I will respond in a friendly, approachable way without being gushy/ovesharing. 

If someone else acts cold or distant but also asks politely if she can get me a drink, I'm not going to tell myself "oh this means she doesn't like me" instead I'll say -sure if you're going to the drinks table a bottled waer would be great."  Likewise if someone asks me a very personal question and shares something personal I'll assume she finds me approachable but it doesn't mean I'll go all out with my answer nor will I assume she has found her kindred spirit.  

But if I followed what you are saying you would instead go - obligatory -then retreat into a corner and assume that even if someone approached and greeted you warmly, better to stay in the corner silent than risk any impression at all of overstepping/being too chatty

It's also about courage - get out of your comfort zone a bit -what's the worst that would have happened if you lightly touched her arm while on the couch and talking? Sounds like you're trying to protect yourself from any risk at all - more than an issue with "reading the room" (or both are true.)

[Cherylyn]

Narcissism is when you don't place yourself in other people's shoes.  Narcissists are complete opposite of empathetic types. 

If you want self improvement,  to put it simply,  treat others the way you would want to be treated which is respect,  good manners and grace.  Be honorable.  Any other way is a train wreck.

[Wiseman2]

Having an unrequited crush doesn't seem to have much to do with narcissistic personality disorder or "reading the room".  This particular lady enjoys your company but she doesn't seem to want to pursue sexting as much as you do or dating, despite some cheeky flirty banter.  

Try to trust your instincts more. You stated you were clinically diagnosed with NPD, however these cluster B personality disorders are typically associated with poor insight as well as rigid maladaptive coping skills.

You seem to have excellent insight and seem to be open and introspective about yourself and your impact on others as well as interpersonal dynamics. 

[catfeeder]

What is the worst that could happen if you just said, “I can’t tell whether you’d like to cuddle or not cuddle?”

You’d have your information without any disrespect.

[NighttimeNightmare]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:10 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Having an unrequited crush doesn't seem to have much to do with narcissistic personality disorder or "reading the room". 

I guess, but I’m like this in almost every aspect of my life. Whereas it seems to not be an issue for most people, I’m referring to the nuances.  I think @Kwothe28s post picked up on what I was struggling with 

 

On 10/23/2023 at 1:10 PM, Wiseman2 said:

This particular lady enjoys your company but she doesn't seem to want to pursue sexting as much as you do or dating, despite some cheeky flirty banter. 

Well, this is broaching the content of my initial thread but I’ll go with it  because I do have updates: im not so certain she isn’t into it, and her comments about not wanting to date have ceased completely.
 

Since I’ve made that thread, we’ve spent a ton of time together.   Two nights ago she was my +1 to a dinner party, and we’re going out to dinner again in a few days. We’ve definitely gotten a lot closer.  I don’t really have anxiety about it anymore, I’m just enjoying the company. But I do think that my being overly cautious could be coming across as rejection. 
 

On 10/23/2023 at 1:10 PM, Wiseman2 said:

You stated you were clinically diagnosed with NPD, however these cluster B personality disorders are typically associated with poor insight as well as rigid maladaptive coping skills.

You seem to have excellent insight and seem to be open and introspective about yourself and your impact on others as well as interpersonal dynamics. 

It is because I’ve worked very hard for years to try to develop cognitive empathy and figure out how not to hurt those that I care about. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

On 10/23/2023 at 2:21 PM, catfeeder said:

What is the worst that could happen if you just said, “I can’t tell whether you’d like to cuddle or not cuddle?”

You’d have your information without any disrespect.

Well if she said no I’d probably see black and be overcome with the need to flee to protect myself.  I don’t know, it’s something I’ve not figured out completely. I get that it doesn’t make sense to most people, but it’s my reality. If I knew why I responded that way, I could fix it. 
 

I’ve actually gotten better, though, I’ve been using her to practice.  When I want to invite her somewhere I have to take myself through a lot of preparatory steps like: “if she says no it doesn’t mean it has to do with me, it’s not a rejection of self, she’s entitled to not want to go anywhere.” Then I practice asserting what I want. For instance I say, “I’d like for you to come with me,” instead of being passive about the request eg: “you can come if you want,” which I used to say to give myself a loophole out of feeling rejected.  I find being direct works, if she declines she always offers an alternative, so I’ve found it’s safe for me to be a bit vulnerable in my requests of letting her know I want to spend time with her. I’ve found she’s extremely consistent in her behaviors and very affirming. So I’ve been mirroring that engagement back onto her. 
 

After getting comfortable doing this for a bit, it doesn’t seem as scary to bring up physical requests. I’m probably close to asking to hold hands or cuddle or what not without having a massive internal freak out 

[NighttimeNightmare]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:27 AM, Batya33 said:

Sounds like you're trying to protect yourself from any risk at all - more than an issue with "reading the room" (or both are true.)

I think both things are true. 
 

in reference to the “reading the room” thing I think im overshooting on the “caution” side of the scale as to not think I know what anyone else is thinking or feeling.  That was beaten out of me when I went through therapy, the reality is that I don’t know. I don’t think I’ve discovered, or refined, tools to operate on a middle ground as far as this is concerned.  
 

I’ve literally spent my entire life thinking I knew what everyone felt and thought, I had no fear, no shame, everything was my way. And I mean, it gained me A LOT in business when things really do benefit one to be ruthless and rigid… but now I just don’t get how people can say “read the room, xyz is obvious bro!” Like, how can someone even say that. Nothing is obvious to me anymore, everything I thought was obvious before was proven to have holes in it. 

 

On 10/23/2023 at 3:27 AM, Batya33 said:

what's the worst that would have happened if you lightly touched her arm while on the couch and talking?

Well, we did this. Actually, she did it to me first in the car. She put her hand on my arm and “caressed” me.  Then I did it back to her when we got to her house.  
 

last night she was standing by me shivering trying to warm herself up and I was going to put my arm around her and do it for her and then I froze thinking “oh man what if she pushes me off of her,” so I didn’t. I think that is a bit of fear of rejection, but also a fear of “misreading” someone 

[Batya33]

It's not about "obvious" - at least, not to me - it's simply reading the room where you're reasonably sure X is true.  And I find that less talking and more observing/active listening increases the accuracy of reading the room.  Also if you talk less, then less risk of offending or near-offending.

I personally wouldn't like someone I'm not romantically involved with or very close to trying to warm me up in that way.  (Everyone is different).  

[catfeeder]

Reading the room is about acquaintances and strangers, and it’s not a science, it’s an art form, and some people are more talented at it than others.

Close relationships have a history and an investment in building trust, so if they are too fragile to withstand direct communication, then they only wear a facade of closeness.

A simple statement that says, “I can’t tell what you want me to do right now…” gets you off the hook of playing psychic and opens the door of trust without offense.

[NighttimeNightmare]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I personally wouldn't like someone I'm not romantically involved with or very close to trying to warm me up in that way.  (Everyone is different).  

Neither would I, but she’s constantly touching me and/or standing right on me, leaning in.  

we hug a lot now and I rub down her body, she’s never stopped me 

there is something about our behavior that, once again, doesn’t feel platonic. It still seemed weird to assume the dinner was implied that I should have made a move 
 

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

it's simply reading the room where you're reasonably sure X is true.

I still am not grasping this. For instance, I like to read these forum boards here and the amount of people who come in and make statements about someone else’s behavior, and I’m reading it thinking “whoa you’re creepy and I’m pretty sure this woman is trying to get away from you,” the storyteller has got this entire narrative going where the two of them have “such a great connection!” etc.  These people believe they’ve “read the room” successfully. so you never really can truly know

 

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

And I find that less talking and more observing/active listening increases the accuracy of reading the room.  Also if you talk less, then less risk of offending or near-offending.

In my situation it’s moreso the vibe I have with her. I still feel I can’t know her thoughts or feelings on it. 
 

In my recent situation with her we had a fancy dinner at her place, she was dressed nicely with her hair done, lights were dimmed… everyone is telling me they’re sure it was prime time to make a move. 
 

but you can’t be sure.  Of anything. 
 

like I said, the people posting here about their love interests “are sure”, and they’re often wrong. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

A simple statement that says, “I can’t tell what you want me to do right now…” gets you off the hook of playing psychic and opens the door of trust without offense.

That’s a really good phrase, she’s actually said this to me and it felt really nice but I never thought of using it. Didn’t make that connection 

 

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Close relationships have a history and an investment in building trust, so if they are too fragile to withstand direct communication, then they only wear a facade of closeness.

I think I’m ok in communicating around topics I feel there’s no chance of rejection, like a non romantic thing.   For instance, we got into our first “argument” the other evening. I wouldn’t even call it an argument actually, because we didn’t argue.  But, I did something and she reacted, then I reacted to her reaction and I just needed time to wrap my head around it, but we talked and I explained she can’t do that to me and why.   She explained how she felt in the moment and the reason for the reaction. I explained it is scary for me and checked in with her emotions. There was no one trying to “win,” she just hugged me. 
 

so I think it’s faceted for me, and I do need to apply these things to getting my romantic themed questions answered 

[NighttimeNightmare]

I got a text from her saying she’s uncomfortable with how we left things the other evening and she wants to talk in person about this 

 

kind of glad because I felt weird about it all too, and knew I should explain to her what was going on in my head, now that we’re spending so much time together. But I thought she was over it so I tried to move on from it.   
 

I’ve always had really dysfunctional connections with people so this is different, my goal will be to listen to her side and not invalidate her feelings. And if I feel invalided I’m just planning on saying that, and then removing myself if the boundary isn’t respected 

I’m just having flashbacks to all of the blowups my ex would cause instead of just communicating 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

listen to her side and not invalidate her feelings.

Maybe could you put this as "listen to what she has to say (might not be a "side") and respond in a kind and thoughtful way" .  I don't think it's about validating or invalidating -you don't need to validate her feelings and you can express your view and perspective as your own -nothing to do with her "I feel" is fine-that has nothing to do with how she feels.  Feelings aren't facts.

[Kwothe28]

17 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I still am not grasping this. For instance, I like to read these forum boards here and the amount of people who come in and make statements about someone else’s behavior, and I’m reading it thinking “whoa you’re creepy and I’m pretty sure this woman is trying to get away from you,” the storyteller has got this entire narrative going where the two of them have “such a great connection!” etc.  These people believe they’ve “read the room” successfully. so you never really can truly know

 

Eh, its more on what other person is comfortable with. Last year I was at some friends wedding. Anyway, my acquaintance wanted to dance with the woman at my table. He didnt even asked her, just very forcefully pulled her and took her to the dance floor when music started. Me and even some other women at the table thought that was very agressive and creepy. But the woman was OK with it, so eh. He didnt do anything at the end but he did at least try no matter how we thought he was agressive. Wouldnt recommend it to anyone though. Still think its way out of order.

Anyway, what was the fight about? What you did and how she reacted to it? Its never a good thing when they want to talk so wouldnt expect good news from that, sorry.

[Jibralta]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:20 AM, NighttimeNightmare said:

Ffwd to post therapy: when I engage with people, in particular people I’m interested in romantically, I found I do the stark opposite of what I always used to do: instead of thinking I know everything and overriding their autonomy, I’m convinced I know nothing, which may not be such a bad thing, however, but I believe I’m doing it to the opposite end of the extreme. For example, instead of being able to “read the room” as it seems many can, I find myself frozen hoping for big neon signs that can show me what to do in absolutes. I have had my absolutes I trusted in completely taken from me, even though they were often wrong, they still guided me. Now I have nothing. 

If nothing else, therapy has at least given you an awareness that your personality type is prone to black and white thinking. It's a great start, I think. 

On 10/23/2023 at 5:20 AM, NighttimeNightmare said:

I said none of this is fair, you all say I’m narcissistic when I assume and state I know things, so why is it ok for you all to suddenly claim you know?  How can you be so sure she wanted me to do something? It makes 0 sense.  So it’s not ok when I assume, but it’s ok for others to?

I just want to point out that this (bolded) is another example of black and white thinking. There's more to it than that. But rather than speculate on a situation where I don't know anyone or anything, I'll give you a (somewhat metaphorical) example from my own life:

I have balanced my checkbook to the penny for over 20 years. One day, not long after I first started doing this, I found a $0.14 discrepancy. I reviewed my transactions over and over again. The cause of the discrepancy seemed so clear, and--since it was such a small amount of money--I was tempted to chalk it up to a clerical error and be done with it.

BUT I couldn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that my theory was correct. Something wasn't adding up. No matter what I did, I could not get the discrepancy down to 0. The best I could do was $0.02. So, I (reluctantly!) pressed on.

After HOURS of additional review, I discovered that the discrepancy was indeed caused by a clerical error... the bank had misread a check for more than $600 and my account was short!

After that, it was an easy fix to go to the bank and have my money restored. But I don't think I will ever forget that experience. It taught me that the seemingly obvious answer isn't necessarily the correct answer. I had to delve deep into the grey, seemingly unrelated transactions of my checkbook to suss out the truth.

Yes, my example is about a series of financial transactions. But it's similar in so many situations. You have to resist jumping to conclusions, and develop both the patience and tenacity to continue gathering more information until everything adds up. You can't think critically with success unless you suspend your judgment in this way.

[boltnrun]

I have a bad habit of thinking I know how people are going to react to something. Of course I always assume it's going to be a negative reaction.

For example, I am feeling really, really sick today. I was supposed to work in the office today. But we were told very clearly that if we feel sick we are NOT to come into the office. I am able to work from home easily. But I thought "<Manager> knows I don't like coming into the office because the commute is terrible. What if he thinks I'm just pretending to be sick so I don't have to go into the office? And I took two hours off on Monday to have blood drawn. What will he think?"  But I legit don't feel well at all so I didn't go in and told my manager I would work remotely. And he said he was also working remotely because HE is not feeling well! 

Probably 90% of the time the negative thoughts I presume people will have are wrong. But I'm wired from a young age to assume everyone thinks I'm trying to get out of doing something or that I'm just trying to get attention, because that's what my mother told me whenever I said I wasn't feeling well. She would actually spank me and order me to school or to a lesson or whatever and tell me to stop trying to get attention. That happened over 45 years ago and I'm still reacting like I'm going to get into trouble!

These things can be deeply ingrained and it's tough getting those thoughts to change. I get it!

[NighttimeNightmare]

7 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Anyway, what was the fight about? What you did and how she reacted to it? Its never a good thing when they want to talk so wouldnt expect good news from that, sorry.

Thanks for the comment about the wedding story. That makes sense. 
 

it wasn’t really a fight per se.  But we were at a costume party and I had a mask on and she didn’t. I came up to her and grabbed her arm and I think it scared her and she reacted really strongly, which in turn scared me.  I feel Iike she goes from 0-10 sometimes (more mild than 0-100, but the acceleration is the same), but had never done it to me specifically before. I’ve just seen her react like that in general a couple times over the months when her dog stressed her out. 
 

I sorta just shut down and removed myself. And she thought I was mad at her and went walking around alone. When she returned I saw she was crying cos her eyes were red. Etc etc. 

 

I don’t think the convo is me getting in “trouble” or her ending whatever this is between us. She likes to talk things out in general, which is good for me because I have a history of being dismissive and avoidant, and I’m using these situations to practice all the new skills I’ve learned in therapy.
 

She’s not treating me any different or anything, we’ve spoken. But I guess time will tell 

[NighttimeNightmare]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think it's about validating or invalidating

True, I’ve been in situations where I was expected to validate someone’s delusions. 
 

I think in this situation I’m just trying to be mindful that she felt anything at all, and I want to give her a safe space to tell me what she was feeling.  
 

in the past I’d mock people for feeling, or crying. And I’d parrot around the “facts” of the situation.  Like, “why are you crying? I didn’t mean to do any of that. Stop being dramatic!” 
 

I just can’t be that person anymore. But this has also caused me to be emotional because I had to get in touch with my own feelings in order to care about someone else’s. So, on the flip side, I need her to listen to how I felt and what her reaction brought up in me. 
 

it’s time I tell her about the extent of my abusive relationship. And now is my chance to see if she offers me the same consideration I will offer her. if she can’t then… I can’t go any further with her. 
 

I never want to be in a situation ever again where someone makes me feel wrong for my feelings or emotions, but I can’t do that to her either. 
 

anyway, when she said she wanted to talk about it I said we can do this in a safe space and both share our feelings.  I’m ok with the discussion of feelings so long as no one says “I felt this therefore I know you meant xyz.” That is when, ya.. feelings aren’t facts. But I also want to be gentle to both of our feelings 
 

 

[Batya33]

This sounds like you’re making it way way more complicated than it needs to be. She wants to talk to you. You’ve agreed to have her talk to you. See what she says. No need to prepare to this extent or rehearse based on assumptions and hypotheticals. IMO. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Thanks for the comment about the wedding story. That makes sense. 
 

it wasn’t really a fight per se.  But we were at a costume party and I had a mask on and she didn’t. I came up to her and grabbed her arm and I think it scared her and she reacted really strongly, which in turn scared me.  I feel Iike she goes from 0-10 sometimes (more mild than 0-100, but the acceleration is the same), but had never done it to me specifically before. I’ve just seen her react like that in general a couple times over the months when her dog stressed her out. 
 

I sorta just shut down and removed myself. And she thought I was mad at her and went walking around alone. When she returned I saw she was crying cos her eyes were red. Etc etc. 

 

I don’t think the convo is me getting in “trouble” or her ending whatever this is between us. She likes to talk things out in general, which is good for me because I have a history of being dismissive and avoidant, and I’m using these situations to practice all the new skills I’ve learned in therapy.
 

She’s not treating me any different or anything, we’ve spoken. But I guess time will tell 

I actually read Bolt’s response after I wrote mine below. It sounds like you startled her and scared her and then escalated it by ignoring her. Judging her for how scared she was. I feel for her. I get very startled and often scared by someone I don’t know or don’t think I know grabbing me. Or even touching me. And yes also when it’s a dog.
 

Just today a man standing behind me in the cashier line tapped me fairly hard on the shoulder - I had earbuds in - to point to a new register that opened. So that he gave me the opportunity (which I couldn’t take as it was an express line).

While I appreciated the thought it was startling in a bad way. I didn’t show it but certain people don’t get that touching someone from behind can be really startling. I’m easily startled and a woman and a petite woman. And with Covid I really want people to give space. If possible. I’m not sure why you grabbed her knowing her propensities or why you sulked after. But ok. The two of you seem a bit too oil and water - no?

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I’m not sure why you grabbed her knowing her propensities

I was playing with her but I guess she couldn’t see my expressions due to the mask I had on 

 

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

or why you sulked after.

Because her reaction looked similar to my ex before she’d throw *** and break holes in walls. So it startled ME and I shut down then regained composure by the time she walked back around to me 

its not about one of us being right or wrong. She got startled and so did I. 
 

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

The two of you seem a bit too oil and water - no?

Nope don’t think so. I think I’m an extreme person who needs to constantly keep myself in check and she’s actually been nothing but kind to me.  All of my posts here are about ME and my own internal dialogue. Very little actually has to do with her 
 

I think this is a very normal thing and I’m navigating it the best that I can.  The conflict isn’t my issue with human beings, the results are in how two people resolve things and I plan to offer her kindness and understanding in return 

 

[Batya33]

Sorry you don’t get to blame the victim. You were playing a game and grabbing her knowing she’d startle easily. Why in the world would you do that ? My son has always hated being tickled so when we “rough house “ or get silly I never even pretend to tickle him because it’s never ever funny to him. I respect him and his bodily autonomy. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

20 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

knowing she’d startle easily.

Nope I didn’t know this.  
 

I’ve only said I’ve seen her “react like this before” to her dog. That’s what I said, and that’s what I’ve seen. Like I’ve seen her do it when she’s been overly stressed. So no, I had no idea I would have startled her 

 

but it happened. I’m not blaming anyone. Expressing my thoughts isn’t blaming or playing the victim. It’s helping me to detach from black and white extremes.