My boyfriend wants to fix things before he propose

[redswim30]

I say this with all the love, kindness and respect in my heart- 

You aren't ready for marriage, OP.  

Take it from someone who got married too young (24).  You don't really know what you want yet.  You haven't learned successful conflict resolution yet.  Marriage never solves issues, it only amplifies them. 

You and your bf aren't compatible- and I mean this in an empathetic and kind way, you both have a lot of growing up to do.  I don't think either of you really knows what you want yet, out of a relationship or life.  I wonder why you seem to hold a stance of every change needing to come from your BF and not from yourself?  Perhaps you should consider how your stances may have contributed to things not going smoothly?  This will help you to learn about yourself and things that you perhaps need to work on. 

Can I ask why at your young age you feel so enthused to rush down the aisle?  A wedding is ONE DAY of your life, it's the actual marriage that matters.   And OP, what's you've experienced so far together, without diminishing what your experiences have been, is not even any of the difficult experiences in life.  Marriage is tough, OP.  Much tougher than the things that you have described.  

You are struggling so hard to make something work when you haven't even faced a serious life trial together.  If you were to rush into marriage, you would only be headed for a fast divorce thereafter. 

I highly recommend that you not reconnect with him.  You are so young.  Go out and have fun and take some time to learn about yourself and what you really want in life. 

Do NOT get married- to him or anyone else yet.  

[MissCanuck]

57 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I never said he has to solve my uncomfortable feelings, just understand that they exist and believe me. I understand him and I believe that he feels this way, but HE has to realize it is not the reality.

Maybe he is just buying time until he thinks of how to break it to you that he doesn't want to marry you. 

 

 

[smackie9]

I know someone that was in your shoes. I had many conversations with her BF in how he felt about her demanding/expecting a ring...the root of most of their fights. You being pushy/entitled is how you are being perceived to him. The focus is on getting a ring, and not what you can bring to the relationship or him. You are not ready yet and he knows this. That is why he's just not doing it and I don't blame him. The person that was in your shoes, finally shut up about it and let things happen organically. It took years but they were finally married last year because they were more mature, had a home, kids and were in a really good place. She finally realized it's not the ring that was important, but building a life together/having goals in place was. So being on better behavior for a few months is not going to cut it. It take more than that. Have to build a solid foundation, like rock solid before you get that ring on your finger. It will probably take another 2 or 3 years. Better to be prepared before taking such a big step. 

[hannarivers]

Again, thank you so much for the replies! 

I get what you say. The reason I hurry are the people in my family. Every one wasted years of their lives, because they couldnt keep their relationships. Single mothers, single fathers, too old to be mothers, too late to be married people. I dont want to end up like them. I want to love someone, cherish them, belong to them and create a life with them. I am terrified of having a life like my relatives. 

[smackie9]

Just now, hannarivers said:

Again, thank you so much for the replies! 

I get what you say. The reason I hurry are the people in my family. Every one wasted years of their lives, because they couldnt keep their relationships. Single mothers, single fathers, too old to be mothers, too late to be married people. I dont want to end up like them. I want to love someone, cherish them, belong to them and create a life with them. I am terrified of having a life like my relatives. 

All the more reason to wait and work on being more mature/ready. 

[hannarivers]

2 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

I know someone that was in your shoes. I had many conversations with her BF in how he felt about her demanding/expecting a ring...the root of most of their fights. You being pushy/entitled is how you are being perceived to him. The focus is on getting a ring, and not what you can bring to the relationship or him. You are not ready yet and he knows this. That is why he's just not doing it and I don't blame him. The person that was in your shoes, finally shut up about it and let things happen organically. It took years but they were finally married last year because they were more mature, had a home, kids and were in a really good place. She finally realized it's not the ring that was important, but building a life together/having goals in place was. So being on better behavior for a few months is not going to cut it. It take more than that. Have to build a solid foundation, like rock solid before you get that ring on your finger. It will probably take another 2 or 3 years. Better to be prepared before taking such a big step. 

I understand and agree. I want to clarify something that I should have done the first time. My 4 year thing is based on the statistics that if a man doesnt propose until that timeline, he wont do it in the future either. I could surely focus on us for 1-2 more years, I am just freaked out that if he doesnt propose now, all that hardwork was just so he can break up with me in 6 or so years. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

No. I dont dismiss it, I just cant help him process HIS feelings. The way he couldnt help me process MY feelings when he broke my trust with his porn use. Of course, he could help with reassuring me by updating me about his state (eg. is he doing good, did he fail his no-porn practice, etc) but only I could work on a constant fear of him lying again. I built my trust again. I can tell him "hun, we did not argue in two weeks", but it is his job to work with it. I never said he has to solve my uncomfortable feelings, just understand that they exist and believe me. I understand him and I believe that he feels this way, but HE has to realize it is not the reality. 

Wow, I see. If I were him, I would have definitely thought that you would never marry me if you missed out the first time. My perspective is that even if times were and sometimes are hard, I was never unsure about him. Not even when I was completely in disgust after finding out about his little porn fantasies. Literally broke my heart when I saw pornstars names in his search history and I still felt like we had to overcome this. I just accepted the fact that he might not have been into me as much sexually in the past as he is now. But Im trying to concentrate on now, that NOW he adores me, and I trust him that even if porn comes up again, he will never ruin us again. 

 

I totally would have thought so as well. But when we reconnected and got back together almost 8 years later we had changed a lot and grown a lot such that we were a great match. Also we never had even one trust issue - nothing at all. Had we I very likely wouldn’t have even had a friendly dinner with him - no cheating nothing even close - no inappropriate behavior nothing even close. Yes - trust to rebuild as in trusting ourselves that this time - we would be together and stay together and marry. But I trusted him and he trusted me that our hearts were in the right place. I’m sorry you had to deal with his porn use. I can’t imagine. 

[smackie9]

5 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I understand and agree. I want to clarify something that I should have done the first time. My 4 year thing is based on the statistics that if a man doesnt propose until that timeline, he wont do it in the future either. I could surely focus on us for 1-2 more years, I am just freaked out that if he doesnt propose now, all that hardwork was just so he can break up with me in 6 or so years. 

Hate to break the news to ya but, relationships no matter how good they are, still can end/fall apart without warning. There's no such thing as a guarantee...it's a crap shoot.  

[Batya33]

Just now, hannarivers said:

I understand and agree. I want to clarify something that I should have done the first time. My 4 year thing is based on the statistics that if a man doesnt propose until that timeline, he wont do it in the future either. I could surely focus on us for 1-2 more years, I am just freaked out that if he doesnt propose now, all that hardwork was just so he can break up with me in 6 or so years. 

If you’re basing on statistics then I’d be very concerned that this has little to do with your individual relationships with this person. I think you’re looking for outside statistics because you don’t trust your internal sense about how he feels and how you feel and whether there actually is rebuilt trust. In my life the statistics were wildly against me. I was 39 and single. Never married.
Never tried to conceive till I was almost 41 - what are the statistics on geriatric pregnancies. Oh and how about successful marriages where the bride and groom become parents 3 months after the wedding ?  Statistics anyone? 

So these statistics- is that 4 years of a healthy relationship - a stable relationship? That’s not your history. And what are the ages of the men in the study ? My friend’s son in law proposed to her daughter when he was 18. My friend’s spouse proposed after dating 5 years when they were 20 and 21.  And do you mean proposals with a wedding date soon after ? Did the study include proposals but no wedding or a divorce soon after ?  What is the background of these men. Do these men only have gender in common and what about those men who never propose because their girlfriends did so. Do you see how nonsensical this is ? And it’s really concerning if this is your focus given your sort of clinical approach to this really personal milestone. 

[hannarivers]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

If you’re basing on statistics then I’d be very concerned that this has little to do with your individual relationships with this person. I think you’re looking for outside statistics because you don’t trust your internal sense about how he feels and how you feel and whether there actually is rebuilt trust. In my life the statistics were wildly against me. I was 39 and single. Never married.
Never tried to conceive till I was almost 41 - what are the statistics on geriatric pregnancies. Oh and how about successful marriages where the bride and groom become parents 3 months after the wedding ?  Statistics anyone? 

So these statistics- is that 4 years of a healthy relationship - a stable relationship? That’s not your history. And what are the ages of the men in the study ? My friend’s son in law proposed to her daughter when he was 18. My friend’s spouse proposed after dating 5 years when they were 20 and 21.  And do you mean proposals with a wedding date soon after ? Did the study include proposals but no wedding or a divorce soon after ?  What is the background of these men. Do these men only have gender in common and what about those men who never propose because their girlfriends did so. Do you see how nonsensical this is ? And it’s really concerning if this is your focus given your sort of clinical approach to this really personal milestone. 

You do have a point that I never thought about, thank you for the insight. 

16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

. I’m sorry you had to deal with his porn use. I can’t imagine. 

I was the one who you talked to a few months ago. I had the problem where he watched specific actors instead of random videos. We had many talks about that. He reassured me many times that it had nothing to do about him having any kind of feelings (sexual or emotional) towards anyone beside me, it was just his search habit (whose video was useful before, will be good for a few more times). Still hurts to remember those names, but I became aware that he needed time to get off of porn, and now he only uses homemade ones and way less frequently. 

[boltnrun]

Him proposing within four years guarantees nothing. I got engaged about two years into my relationship. Guess what? We're divorced! HE rushed ME and I was not at all ready to be a wife. But he pestered and badgered and insisted (sound familiar?) and finally said if I wouldn't agree to get engaged he was going to break up with me. Well, I gave in and turns out I was right.

If he'd just given me a couple more years to get it together...but he wouldn't wait. And our child had to go through seeing his parents not getting along. 

Please...slow your roll.

[bluecastle]

53 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

The reason I hurry are the people in my family. Every one wasted years of their lives, because they couldnt keep their relationships. Single mothers, single fathers, too old to be mothers, too late to be married people. I dont want to end up like them.

So, in a nutshell, your main motivation to be married, and ASAP, is fear and anxiety connected to a story you've told yourself about your family rather than the state of your connection with your boyfriend. Take a deep breath and ask yourself: Does that sound healthy?

Fears are generally realized—not avoided—when they are our primary motivation. Go back and read that sentence one more time. Now, think of the driver who is so deathly afraid of an accident that she white-knuckles it everywhere and—oops!—rear ends someone in the parking lot because she's already panicking about merging on the highway.

It's not that different in relationships.

A marriage is only as strong and enriching as the connection it's built on—not so different, to put it somewhat coldly, than how a company is only as strong as the innovation it's built around and the people running it. Your boyfriend is saying to you, "I love you, I also want the things you want, but I am concerned about us." And I don't think he feels heard. 

If you two were getting ready for a cross country road trip, it would be like: You really, really want to get going, now, while he is pointing out that the check engine light is on and the car feels a little funny at high speeds and maybe that should take priority over the trip. To which you reply, "It feels fine to me, the check engine light only flickers—let's go already."

Sounds like a rough road trip, from where I'm sitting, even if the car held.

I said it once, I'll say it again: I hope that you can come to see these years as more than a "waste," even if they don't end up exactly how you want them to. In that I hope the same for the way you see your family—that their lives were being lived, not wasted, even as they took unexpected and sometimes sad turns. If you can challenge yourself to widen your perspective there, I think you'll be in for a much smoother ride, with hands relaxed on the wheel. 

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

. The reason I hurry are the people in my family. 

How old are you both? Do you both work?  How long have you lived together? What is your timeline for starting a family?

It's not unreasonable to want to build a life with someone or unreasonable to expect some sort of commitment after 4 years together. 

However try to reflect if you are both in a position financially and otherwise to move forward and reflect what your motivation for a wedding is. 

[redswim30]

25 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

So, in a nutshell, your main motivation to be married, and ASAP, is fear and anxiety connected to a story you've told yourself about your family rather than the state of your connection with your boyfriend. Take a deep breath and ask yourself: Does that sound healthy?

Fears are generally realized—not avoided—when they are our primary motivation. Go back and read that sentence one more time. Now, think of the driver who is so deathly afraid of an accident that she white-knuckles it everywhere and—oops!—rear ends someone in the parking lot because she's already panicking about merging on the highway.

It's not that different in relationships.

A marriage is only as strong and enriching as the connection it's built on—not so different, to put it somewhat coldly, than how a company is only as strong as the innovation it's built around and the people running it. Your boyfriend is saying to you, "I love you, I also want the things you want, but I am concerned about us." And I don't think he feels heard. 

If you two were getting ready for a cross country road trip, it would be like: You really, really want to get going, now, while he is pointing out that the check engine light is on and the car feels a little funny at high speeds and maybe that should take priority over the trip. To which you reply, "It feels fine to me, the check engine light only flickers—let's go already."

Sounds like a rough road trip, from where I'm sitting, even if the car held.

I said it once, I'll say it again: I hope that you can come to see these years as more than a "waste," even if they don't end up exactly how you want them to. In that I hope the same for the way you see your family—that their lives were being lived, not wasted, even as they took unexpected and sometimes sad turns. If you can challenge yourself to widen your perspective there, I think you'll be in for a much smoother ride, with hands relaxed on the wheel. 

 

^ WONDERFUL ADVICE and I heartily agree! 

OP, you may have heard the phrase, " Everyone comes into your life for; a reason, a season or a lifetime."   People sometimes want to judge every relationship by the "lifetime" measure and that anything less isn't successful, useful or love-filled. 

Some of the most meaningful relationships I've ever had, whether formative, to teach me a specific lesson I needed to learn, to help me grow, or even just a temporary " help" or "distraction"  I needed - have been some of the most useful relationships I've ever had.   Not staying with someone romantically permanently does not make it a "failure" or a "waste", so please try not to think in those terms. 

One thing I've learned is- Never judge yourself by OTHER people's standards.   You have plenty of time.  I had a short-lived first marriage myself partially because I felt like I had "had to" take certain steps at certain times, without fully exploring WHY.   The result was only unhappiness for me. 

I'd love nothing more than for you to avoid that. 

 

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

My 4 year thing is based on the statistics that if a man doesnt propose until that timeline, he wont do it in the future either.

You do realize that strong-arming someone into proposing is a great way to pave the road for divorce later on, right? 

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

but I became aware that he needed time to get off of porn, and now he only uses homemade ones and way less frequently. 

I defer to you as far as your comfort level with your boyfriend's use of porn.

[boltnrun]

Where are you finding these "statistics"?

I'd be curious to know the "statistics" of those relationships that fell within this supposed "four year or else" window.  How many actually got married?  How many remained married for longer than five years?

[Jaunty]

I'd like to know a bit about your life outside of your fixation on getting a ring on it.  Do you have things that you are passionate about that you spend time and put significant energy into?  Do you have other hopes for your future besides marriage on a timeline?  

[hannarivers]

3 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I'd like to know a bit about your life outside of your fixation on getting a ring on it.  Do you have things that you are passionate about that you spend time and put significant energy into?  Do you have other hopes for your future besides marriage on a timeline?  

Yes, some passions are healthy and some are not so much. Healthy ones include me saving up almost 2/5 part (which is still less than a good salary, but I work with what I can in a messed up country) of my paycheck, so I can buy a house even without a man. Or the one I am proud of, instead of whining alone in my room, I come here and try to gain insight about the things I might see not so righ. I read many books and articles about self improvement, because it is my main goal to become a great mother one day. The kind that raises a healthy, happy child with conflict resolution and coping skills. And even if I cant become one, it would be nice to not just love myself, but like myself too. Also love to help others, so those skills I am trying to learn each thay, can be useful there, too. My not so healthy passion is creating the best home, so I tend to shop a lot for gadgets and tools that make our lives better. 

[MissCanuck]

30 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

My not so healthy passion is creating the best home, so I tend to shop a lot for gadgets and tools that make our lives better. 

What's not healthy about that? Are you over-spending? 

[hannarivers]

It is a bit unhealthy because I dont buy things that are neccessities. They are useful and helpful little things, but if I were poor, I would not need them. For example, I bought a really pretty shelf for my collectives. I could have bought a cheaper one, but I liked the way it looked. So, yeah, a bit of a shopping addiction I guess. But I still maintain a price range I never go over, and we pay 1/3 the cost for our apartment, because it belongs to my boyfriend's relatives. (This is also the reason I said that I hope my boyfriend doesnt just play with me. If we ever separate, he will be the one who stays here, and I spent much much money and energy and love on this place. I dont have relatives that would help me out, and in my country, it is basicly about being born rich or having luck that gets you through life. I have a few papers and still get no job because I am young) 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

 our apartment, because it belongs to my boyfriend's relatives. If we ever separate, he will be the one who stays here, and I spent much much money and energy and love on this place.. I have a few papers and still get no job because I am young. 

Sorry to hear this. It may explain your anxiety about marriage. Unfortunately it seems like you're worried that if you breakup you'll be homeless. And you're hoping that by getting  married you would have more security as far as living arrangements. Except for paying your share of the rent and expenses,  please stop overinvesting in the property. 

[MissCanuck]

20 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

we pay 1/3 the cost for our apartment, because it belongs to my boyfriend's relatives

In this case, you should dial back how much you're spending on extras. You two don't own the home and it is unlikely you would live there forever anyway. 

21 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I spent much much money and energy and love on this place

Again, this isn't the best move when it's a rental and not your own home. It's one thing to make a rental unit a comfortable and pleasant place, but it's another to over-spend on it when it doesn't belong to you and isn't going to be your permanent home. 

You're trying very hard to carve out a domestic life, which I understand is what you want. But you're going about it in ways that stand to hurt you or otherwise backfire later on. 

 

[Batya33]

What helped me be a good mother was having a life outside of my son -yes I was a SAHM the first 7 years by choice - a joyous choice for all of us - (I started looking to return to outside work in the middle of his kindergarten year when I was 48).  So for example -I did occasional volunteer work for the local public radio station (some for his schools too but as a former teacher -I wanted time apart from my son and to let the teachers - teach!).

  I read up on current events and read novels -mix of good literature and lighter stuff.  It helped me not be so uber focused on motherhood and more of a well-rounded person. I think well-rounded people make better parents. I exercised daily -often with him in the stroller. Also it made me a better partner - I talked to my husband about lots of stuff not just The Baby or The Marriage.

Also we traveled quite a bit -showed our son a lot of sights and fascinating and educational experiences -also broadened my world.  

I think some self help books are excellent.  I think some are garbage. Be selective IMO.  I hapen to like the philosopher Alain De Botton because it's philisophy with a good dose of self-help/self-improvement.  I think certain novels are much better for personal growth -like Pride and Prejudice, Jane Eyre, and certain of the more light authors like Jennifer Weiner, Kristin Hannah, and for sure Elizabeth Strout -she is more literary, she is awesome at deciphering why people do what they do -in her novels. 

Reading books pales in comparison IMO to having a varied life including exercise/outdoor activities maybe a bit of mindfulness (I don't meditate or do yoga but I do daily stretches, practice 4-7-8 breathing and an attitude is gratitude prayer).  

Also remember parenting does not come with any manual and even the most intelligent infant and baby can't read up on how to let you know if you're doing it right. You won't really know but we try our best.  

I think interior decorating can be fun - (not for me -missing that gene, missing the baby shower/bridal shower/decorating a nursery -genes -zero interest) - but I think for you it's too tied into the marriage/mommy thing so I'd expand beyond that. 

[boltnrun]

Does your boyfriend also get really into this home decor thing you're into?