I spit on my Dad's grave on his birthday... literally.

[Cynder]

Yesterday was my Dad's birthday.  I've written here a lot about the relationship I had with him. He blamed me for ruining his life.  He hated me.  I honestly think that if The Purge was a real thing and if all crime was legal for 24 hours, he would have killed me.  He beat women, he physically abused me.  He told me all throughout my childhood how ugly and worthless I am.  

But, I can also have some level of empathy for him.  He was Bisexual and lived his entire life in the closet.  He had various male lovers all throughout the time him and my Mom were together.  My Mom knew about the guys, but he still cheated on her with women.  And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with him being with guys or with him being Bi.  That's actually the thing I empathize with because he grew up in a time where that wasn't accepted and he had to hide that part of himself all his life.  He also was funny.  He could fix anything and he was really creative.  But his good qualities don't outweigh all the hell he put me through.  It was me who called the cops and got him thrown in jail the last time he decided to beat my Mom up the day after Christmas.  He hated me for that, too.  But he already hated me so who cares? 

At his funeral this whole thing was made about me not sitting in the front row with everyone else, etc. Like, as in some of his family didn't think I should sit in the front row with the other immediate family members. 

I went to a cookout at my boyfriend's house yesterday and had a really good time. It also happened to be my Dad's birthday yesterday.  And then on the way home this happened.  I wrote about it in my journal, so I'm just going to copy and paste it from there.

"And then on the way home, him and I got into a really interesting conversation about family life, etc.  And I started talking about my dad.  And it dawned on me that today is my dad's birthday.  D knows how bad my Dad treated me.  And as soon as I said today is my Dad's birthday he said, "Let's go piss on his grave."  I'm pretty sure he was joking, but I said, "Hey, the cemetery is 5 minutes from my house and open all night.  You really want to?" 

So we actually went to the cemetery.  My Dad's grave is really easy to fine because it's right behind a big statue right on the edge of the place.  I had this letter that I wrote to my Dad years ago that I always wanted to go to his grave and read.  And it was in a Google Doc, so I could access it from my phone. 

It was 3:33 AM when we got there, which is really interesting because I know that time of night supposedly is when the veil is the thinnnest or something.  I don't really believe in all that, but it's interesting that that's what time it was.  So I stood there at my Dad's grave and read the letter out loud.  D stood behind me the whole time with his hands on my shoulders.  And every time I got emotional and had a hard time reading, he would tell me calmly to just keep going.  The letter had all the things anyone would expect...  "You lied, you cheated on Mom and beat her up.  You beat women and little girls because you're a coward.  Why did you have to be such an a******?  I didn't ruin your life, you ruined your own life." Etc... 

When I was done we both just stood there for a minute not saying anything.  Then we hugged, and before we left we did both spit on his grave.  Think what you want, but it was really satisfying.  Walking back to the car I felt light and fluttery.  That's the best way to describe it.  I had wanted to do that for a long time.  I just didn't want to go do it alone, but I also didn't trust anyone to go with me until now."

I did feel really light walking back to the car and last night I slept better than I have in a long time.  I have only read that letter one other time and it was about a year ago in my therapist's office.  I thought writing it would satisfy me, but it didn't.  I thought reading it to my therapist would satisfy me, but it didn't.  I think now I finally found the closure I needed. 

I feel kind of bad, though.  But he never felt bad about what he did to me. 

I thought this was worth sharing. 

[Cherylyn]

If it made you feel better and it was a relief for you after you spat on his grave,  then so be it.  It was closure for you as you say. 

[Kwothe28]

I am a bit more "direct approach" here on Forum. But I would advise you in just letting it go. Not because of him, he doesnt really seem like a good human being. But for yourself. The man is dead, he cant hurt you anymore. With words or otherwise. But you need to continue living. And being bitter about the past is no way to do it. Whole point about writing those letters is that you would get it off your chest and move on. Not so you could continously going back to that stuff. It derails the whole point of letters and it hinders your growth quite a bit. After all you need to be strive to be a better human being that he was. Spitting on his grave is not the way to do that.

How much was it since he died? Is it a recent thing or way in the past?

[Cherylyn]

1 minute ago, Kwothe28 said:

I am a bit more "direct approach" here on Forum. But I would advise you in just letting it go. Not because of him, he doesnt really seem like a good human being. But for yourself. The man is dead, he cant hurt you anymore. With words or otherwise. But you need to continue living. And being bitter about the past is no way to do it. Whole point about writing those letters is that you would get it off your chest and move on. Not so you could continously going back to that stuff. It derails the whole point of letters and it hinders your growth quite a bit. After all you need to be strive to be a better human being that he was. Spitting on his grave is not the way to do that.

How much was it since he died? Is it a recent thing or way in the past?

I agree.  My late father was a chain smoking alcoholic,  wife beater,  womanizer who left my mother with insurmountable debts.  She successfully raised 3 children all by herself,  saved her house,  never filed for bankruptcy,  paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debts all by herself without help from anyone. 

If everyone who has ever wronged me or my mother and they're currently burning 👿 🔥  in ______ for it, then so be it.  They're just a bag of deceased bones  💀 ☠️ right now so I tend to leave it there.  They're paying for it now.  😞

[Seraphim]

I understand your sentiment , my father wasn’t a good person either . 

[Coily]

I’ll just say the 3:33 part is symbolically bothersome, I have my experiences as to why.

As far as the sentiment I get it, a symbolic desecration of someone who has cause much harm can be cathartic. The question is what did it cost you in a metaphysical sense? How much energy did you burn up with all this hate?

[Cynder]

22 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

I agree.  My late father was a chain smoking alcoholic,  wife beater,  womanizer who left my mother with insurmountable debts.  She successfully raised 3 children all by herself,  saved her house,  never filed for bankruptcy,  paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debts all by herself without help from anyone. 

If everyone who has ever wronged me or my mother and they're currently burning 👿 🔥  in ______ for it, then so be it.  They're just a bag of deceased bones  💀 ☠️ right now so I tend to leave it there.  They're paying for it now.  😞

I don't believe in Hell.  And this wasn't about revenge or making him pay.  It was about letting go of some things I don't need to hold on to anymore. 

[Cynder]

12 minutes ago, Coily said:

I’ll just say the 3:33 part is symbolically bothersome, I have my experiences as to why.

As far as the sentiment I get it, a symbolic desecration of someone who has cause much harm can be cathartic. The question is what did it cost you in a metaphysical sense? How much energy did you burn up with all this hate?

I don't believe in any of that so it doesn't matter.  Two people went to a grave, read a letter and spit on the grave.  No ghosts are coming after me.  No demons latched onto me.  Energy was released and let go of.  It just happened to be at 3:33 AM. 

If the letter would have been on an actual piece of paper I would have burned it right there too. 

[Cherylyn]

4 minutes ago, Cynder said:

I don't believe in Hell.  And this wasn't about revenge or making him pay.  It was about letting go of some things I don't need to hold on to anymore. 

Then I'm glad you let it go and you don't need to hold on to anymore.  🙂

[Cynder]

8 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

Then I'm glad you let it go and you don't need to hold on to anymore.  🙂

That was the plan all along. 

The religious implications in this thread really surprise me.  I'm not knocking anyone's beliefs.  I am just surprised to see it on here.  Not too long ago in one of my other threads someone told me I might think I'm in love but I'm actually "living in sin" because my bf is trans.  (I don't remember the exact way it was worded but it was something to that tune... and the phrase living in sin was used.  The rise of secularism and everyone being obsessed with political correctness might be causing some people to go back to that way of thinking, idk. 

[Big Stan]

To me this sounds like you got some closure.  Sure it might not have been the healthiest way to express it but it wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of things.  I wouldn't spend time feeling bad about what you did because it's over now.  That's what closure is, it's the final chapter of that story so you can put the book down and start a new one.  

If reading that letter and spitting on his grave allowed you to do that then what you did was necessary. Just make sure you follow through and don't hold on to that hurt and anger anymore.  Nothing you do can change the past, and now you've unburdened yourself.  Leave it all there with that spit on his grave.  It's his to deal with now.  

[Cynder]

46 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

To me this sounds like you got some closure.  Sure it might not have been the healthiest way to express it but it wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of things.  I wouldn't spend time feeling bad about what you did because it's over now.  That's what closure is, it's the final chapter of that story so you can put the book down and start a new one.  

If reading that letter and spitting on his grave allowed you to do that then what you did was necessary. Just make sure you follow through and don't hold on to that hurt and anger anymore.  Nothing you do can change the past, and now you've unburdened yourself.  Leave it all there with that spit on his grave.  It's his to deal with now.  

Right, It's all left there in the cemetery. 

I try the best I can to only live in the present.  There is no past and there is no future.  There is only right now.  And a minute from now, right now no longer exists. 

My BF is training to be a peer counselor.  I think he got something out of this too.  He is all about helping others, etc.  I think he really liked knowing that he gave me the opportunity to do it. 

[Coily]

2 hours ago, Cynder said:

I don't believe in any of that so it doesn't matter.  Two people went to a grave, read a letter and spit on the grave.  No ghosts are coming after me.  No demons latched onto me.  Energy was released and let go of.  It just happened to be at 3:33 AM. 

If the letter would have been on an actual piece of paper I would have burned it right there too. 

Eh, then why bring it up at all? I find people who use symbology like that are seeking some sort of "experience" for validation of the activity. Belief or not.

But if it brought you some closure, hopefully it allows you some peace of mind.

[Cynder]

13 minutes ago, Coily said:

Eh, then why bring it up at all? I find people who use symbology like that are seeking some sort of "experience" for validation of the activity. Belief or not.

But if it brought you some closure, hopefully it allows you some peace of mind.

Well it was originally mentioned in a journal entry just because I thought it was interesting.  That's the time when the dead are supposedly the most active and that's when we were there.  I don't believe the Loch Ness Monster exists either but if I was in Scotland and passed by Loch Ness I would probably mention that in my journal, just because it was interesting being there.  It had nothing to do with seeking validation.  It was just commentary about the experience. 

How come when people pick small things apart like that it always gets turned into something negative (like seeking validation)?  Why can't it ever be made into something positive?  Just food for thought.

Also, if you're wondering why I knew what time it was, I had to look at my phone to read the letter.  When I held up my phone to open the Google Doc I saw what time it was. 

[Starlight925]

Good for you, for writing this letter, for spitting on the grave of the man who abused you, and for having the healing power within yourself to not only not repeat a pattern with your current relationship, but to have cemented something with someone who sounds like a wonderful person.  A person who stood by you, literally with his hands on your shoulders, while you rid yourself of this negative energy.

And yes, I think the fact that you did it in the middle of the night, and it happened to be at 3:33 am, is symbolic at most, interesting at the least.

These letters that therapists have us write are intended to help us release the negative feelings, and we read them in their offices.  Then what?  Then we talk about how we take our coffee?  When I went through a similar situation, I was like....um....how do we fill the rest of the hour?  

Like, it didn't DO anything for me.  Just put a bunch of words on a page to tell the person how horrible I thought they were, and that yes, I was happy that they died.  But what then?  

What we really crave is for them to take ownership and a genuine apology.  Movies, TV dramas.  Not real life.  In real life, they are a bitter pill till the end.

So it sounds to me that this symbolic event, plus the seemingly healthy relationship that you are now in, is what's what now for you.

In my case, I didn't want to ever grace that person with the time it would take to drive to the cemetery, find a place to park, etc.  Like, they took up  too much of my time and energy while they were alive.  I didn't want to spit as much as I wanted to yell at them, but I didn't want to disturb others.  

When a loved one, who honestly loved this person, wanted to go but couldn't drive, I took them, but I stayed in the car.  That was my symbolic effort:  You're not even worthy of me leaving my air conditioned car.

We do what we have to, to move on.  Sounds like you  are doing just that.

[Cherylyn]

5 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

 

What we really crave is for them to take ownership and a genuine apology.  Movies, TV dramas.  Not real life.  In real life, they are a bitter pill till the end.

 

@Starlight925.  I'd give anything to hear an in person very humble,  sincere apology from those who've wronged me sorely.  I agree,  save that fantasy world for movies,  TV melodramas,  storybooks,  magazines,  puff piece newspaper stories and imaginations.  It's not real life. 

Since apologies will never be forthcoming in a million years,  it's best to keep moving forward by surrounding yourself with very moral people who know how to treat you right.  Everyone else is trash 🗑️and should be treated as such. 

[mylolita]

9 hours ago, Coily said:

I’ll just say the 3:33 part is symbolically bothersome, I have my experiences as to why.

As far as the sentiment I get it, a symbolic desecration of someone who has cause much harm can be cathartic. The question is what did it cost you in a metaphysical sense? How much energy did you burn up with all this hate?

“Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." ― Mark Twain

 

x

[mylolita]

7 hours ago, Cynder said:

Right, It's all left there in the cemetery. 

I try the best I can to only live in the present.  There is no past and there is no future.  There is only right now.  And a minute from now, right now no longer exists. 

My BF is training to be a peer counselor.  I think he got something out of this too.  He is all about helping others, etc.  I think he really liked knowing that he gave me the opportunity to do it. 

I’ll be in the minority here, but someone training in some form of counselling I imagine should be together themselves, mature and professional - and their suggestion is, pee on the grave, or in the end, spit on the grave of someone who badly wronged you in childhood, to help with closure? I’ll hold your shoulders while we do it? 
 

How is someone supposed to help anyone else in any form of counselling when they couch surf, are irresponsible towards providing a secure and stable home for their son, and are mentally all over the place and suicidal at times? 
 

I don’t mean to be too critical, but it’s full of hypocrisy to me in my opinion.
 

x

[Cynder]

2 hours ago, mylolita said:

 

How is someone supposed to help anyone else in any form of counselling when they couch surf, are irresponsible towards providing a secure and stable home for their son,

Really not sure where the couch surfing stuff is coming from.  He has lived in the same house for years.  The rent/bills get paid and his son has his own room in that house.  Maybe you are just so set on thinking everyone I know is some lowlife that you just assumed that about him with no basis at all. (You've made similar assumptions in some of my other threads. There's a pattern here.)  I've never written a single word here even indicating that he is couch surfing.  Honestly I laughed when I read that. He runs an animal rescue, too.  It would be pretty hard to do that while couch surfing.  I don't know very many people who would let someone come and crash on their couch with several foster/rescue animals in tow.

 

 

[Cynder]

9 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Good for you, for writing this letter, for spitting on the grave of the man who abused you, and for having the healing power within yourself to not only not repeat a pattern with your current relationship, but to have cemented something with someone who sounds like a wonderful person.  A person who stood by you, literally with his hands on your shoulders, while you rid yourself of this negative energy.

And yes, I think the fact that you did it in the middle of the night, and it happened to be at 3:33 am, is symbolic at most, interesting at the least.

These letters that therapists have us write are intended to help us release the negative feelings, and we read them in their offices.  Then what?  Then we talk about how we take our coffee?  When I went through a similar situation, I was like....um....how do we fill the rest of the hour?  

Like, it didn't DO anything for me.  Just put a bunch of words on a page to tell the person how horrible I thought they were, and that yes, I was happy that they died.  But what then?  

What we really crave is for them to take ownership and a genuine apology.  Movies, TV dramas.  Not real life.  In real life, they are a bitter pill till the end.

So it sounds to me that this symbolic event, plus the seemingly healthy relationship that you are now in, is what's what now for you.

In my case, I didn't want to ever grace that person with the time it would take to drive to the cemetery, find a place to park, etc.  Like, they took up  too much of my time and energy while they were alive.  I didn't want to spit as much as I wanted to yell at them, but I didn't want to disturb others.  

When a loved one, who honestly loved this person, wanted to go but couldn't drive, I took them, but I stayed in the car.  That was my symbolic effort:  You're not even worthy of me leaving my air conditioned car.

We do what we have to, to move on.  Sounds like you  are doing just that.

He is an absolutely wonderful person.  I met him in 2017, became good friends, in 2022 things between us evolved.  We really do bring out the best in each other.  I know there are probably people reading this thinking, "Your best is spitting on graves?"  No, that's not me at my best.  But I needed to do it. 

I remember watching Just Melvin, Just Evil a few years ago.  It's a documentary about a family where the patriarch sexually abused all the girls over multiple generations.  His funeral is shown at the end and a lot of them throw dirt on his grave and spit on it while the preacher just preaches on about what a great guy he was and tries to act oblivious. 

Writing the letter didn't get any of it out.  Reading it to my therapist didn't do anything either.  You're right.  I knew I would never get a real apology.  You're right again about that kind of stuff only happening in the movies.  People rarely change and things rarely get tied up neatly and resolved. 

Good or you for taking the loved one to the cemetery and not getting out of the car.  I think that's awesome.  It shows you are kind enough to help them, but also not giving up your own boundaries.  That's really admirable. 

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, Cynder said:

Really not sure where the couch surfing stuff is coming from.  He has lived in the same house for years.  The rent/bills get paid and his son has his own room in that house.  Maybe you are just so set on thinking everyone I know is some lowlife that you just assumed that about him with no basis at all. (You've made similar assumptions in some of my other threads. There's a pattern here.)  I've never written a single word here even indicating that he is couch surfing.  Honestly I laughed when I read that. He runs an animal rescue, too.  It would be pretty hard to do that while couch surfing.  I don't know very many people who would let someone come and crash on their couch with several foster/rescue animals in tow.

 

 

They are perfect parents and not in an unstable financially pressed situation where the heating is turned off and they struggle to pay the bills and he struggles with suicidal thoughts? 
 

I must be reading the wrong journal Cynder. 
 

And you’re right, from afar, I don’t think these people do sound clear of mind and like good friends or lovers, and a poly situation with a trans woman is often fraught with complications and drama - yours might be different, I hope it is, but I just think when you already have a hard time mentally, you should make things as easy as possible for yourself and be friends or partners with stable, well rounded people. 
 

I just can’t congratulate you spitting on your fathers grave. 
 

I can see why therapists never suggest things like that. I understand it could be frustrating to go to therapy and see little to no change after many years, and maybe their techniques aren’t the best, and maybe the current medication isn’t the best, but I personally don’t think spitting on someone’s grave is the answer to heal trauma, pain and hate.
 

You don’t want to stoop low in order to feel high.

 

x

[itsallgrand]

May I ask is your mom still living? What sort of relationship do you have with her now? Did she ever show remorse or apologize to you for putting you in that situation and failing to protect you? Does she support you now? Did she heal ? 

I don't think it's the best choice to spit on a grave but ultimately the only person it can really hurt is you. How can it hurt you? Well honestly I'm thinking of many years ago, I burnt a picture symbolically of an ex. It just felt icky after. Like, I don't want to be this person who wishes to erase another human being even symbolically! And somewhat the same here. Do you want to be a person who spits on Graves? It's done, so nothing you can do now except you get to decide what defines you going forward. Your actions are yours, just like your mom and dad's were theirs. 

 

 

 

 

[Jaunty]

6 hours ago, mylolita said:

“Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." ― Mark Twain

 

x

That's a good one.  In this case, the OP poured anger out of the storage vessel and at least that portion of it is no longer being carried with them.

There are many threads and posts on these forums mentioning "closure" like it's something that one person can provide for another.   This post is, IMO, a good example of a valid way to create some type of closure for oneself through a symbolic or ritualistic act.  I feel like it was meaningful.

[mylolita]

1 hour ago, itsallgrand said:

May I ask is your mom still living? What sort of relationship do you have with her now? Did she ever show remorse or apologize to you for putting you in that situation and failing to protect you? Does she support you now? Did she heal ? 

I don't think it's the best choice to spit on a grave but ultimately the only person it can really hurt is you. How can it hurt you? Well honestly I'm thinking of many years ago, I burnt a picture symbolically of an ex. It just felt icky after. Like, I don't want to be this person who wishes to erase another human being even symbolically! And somewhat the same here. Do you want to be a person who spits on Graves? It's done, so nothing you can do now except you get to decide what defines you going forward. Your actions are yours, just like your mom and dad's were theirs. 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

If we are talking about being 14 and taking a trip to a graveyard during a joy ride, feeling gothic and angsty, etc, okay - but I think Cynder, you are a woman in your mid 40s? 
 

I think you can do better than this! 
 

And if people think gaining closure from trauma and abuse is as simple as a ritualistic act or spitting on someone’s grave… I don’t know. I don’t think it’s that easy. If it was, everyone would do it. I think it takes a conscious but deeply honest decision to come to the conclusion that, we can’t change the past, but we can change how we react to it. To put that into practice probably takes years of trying and failing and brutal self honesty and reflection. I’m no psychologist, this is just a lay man’s guess. We are ultimately in control of our emotions, if mature enough. I’m not preaching by the way, I am immature and spoiled and childish full pelt, and have a lot to learn, but for example, my mother had so much negativity attached to her own parents, it’s all she mostly talked about. Her mother died, and if she had said she had gone and spat on her grave, I would have thought less of her for dealing with it that way.

 

I think what would have helped my mum is to not harbour the resentment and hatred and, while she was alive, actually be honest with herself and her mother and confront her about it. I think my mum would have felt much better about herself and maybe even talked some things through with her own mum. She could have at least stuck up for herself as a now grown woman and said her piece. Instead, like the OPs father, she is dead now, and well, I still believe how you relate and deal with things lies within you.

 

I don’t doubt ritual has a very cathartic affect - rituals are extremely important in the human experience, but, like grand says, the sentiment and actual ritual is important. It may make you feel good, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing.

 

I have a bad habit of ranting. Does it make me feel better to rant and rave and let loose to my husband over things that irritate me or make me frustrated? In the moment - kind of. But you do that enough and realise it never solves the actual problem. It’s a release, but it hurts you after, and never feels really as good as you think it’s going too.

 

The closest I’ve come to coming near to resolution with worries and anger has been, putting it aside, and trying to better myself, and just simply live well. Live for other people. And not engross myself with how I feel, as I have a bad habit of focusing on that too much, and in the long run, it’s getting out of your own head and doing nice and good things for others, and being successful (your own personal version of success) which is what seems to really heal. I might be totally wrong. Again, it’s not as if I’m perfect or a psychologist. I just know when I have been at my happiest, and it’s not when I’m in a revengeful or victim like mood - it’s when I forget myself and am just being with my kids, or husband, or taking responsibility, being part of our community, social things, positive things - doing things that take me outside of myself. 

 

I’m not trying to pee on your parade Cynder. If that works for you, that works for you. I just have a different opinion and don’t agree it’s a healthy way of getting closure. Can you ever get full closure? I have my doubts regarding that as well. 

 

Might be my British sensibilities this time round!

 

x

[mylolita]

48 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

That's a good one.  In this case, the OP poured anger out of the storage vessel and at least that portion of it is no longer being carried with them.

There are many threads and posts on these forums mentioning "closure" like it's something that one person can provide for another.   This post is, IMO, a good example of a valid way to create some type of closure for oneself through a symbolic or ritualistic act.  I feel like it was meaningful.

It’s a strange elusive thing Jaunty.

 

Once something has been done, it’s done. I don’t mean to be negative, but I’m not sure whether you can actually attain perfect closure, where you kind of, have a moment or ah-ha moment then bounce off into the sunset unburdened by what has previously burdened you for your whole life before.

 

I do think you can learn to manage it, and find ways to occupy yourself, take your mind away from the past hurts, and kind of, develop your own way of navigating the feelings that probably will come up, on and off, over the course of life.

 

I know a psychologist and, reading this thread, I have a big urge to ask him about closure, and what his opinion is on it. I mean, I don’t hold psychologists up like Gods, by the way. I don’t think they are always right or always know best. But it’s made me think!

 

x