I spit on my Dad's grave on his birthday... literally.

[Big Stan]

4 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I agree.

 

If we are talking about being 14 and taking a trip to a graveyard during a joy ride, feeling gothic and angsty, etc, okay - but I think Cynder, you are a woman in your mid 40s? 
 

I think you can do better than this! 
 

And if people think gaining closure from trauma and abuse is as simple as a ritualistic act or spitting on someone’s grave… I don’t know. I don’t think it’s that easy. If it was, everyone would do it. I think it takes a conscious but deeply honest decision to come to the conclusion that, we can’t change the past, but we can change how we react to it. To put that into practice probably takes years of trying and failing and brutal self honesty and reflection. I’m no psychologist, this is just a lay man’s guess. We are ultimately in control of our emotions, if mature enough. I’m not preaching by the way, I am immature and spoiled and childish full pelt, and have a lot to learn, but for example, my mother had so much negativity attached to her own parents, it’s all she mostly talked about. Her mother died, and if she had said she had gone and spat on her grave, I would have thought less of her for dealing with it that way.

 

I think what would have helped my mum is to not harbour the resentment and hatred and, while she was alive, actually be honest with herself and her mother and confront her about it. I think my mum would have felt much better about herself and maybe even talked some things through with her own mum. She could have at least stuck up for herself as a now grown woman and said her piece. Instead, like the OPs father, she is dead now, and well, I still believe how you relate and deal with things lies within you.

 

I don’t doubt ritual has a very cathartic affect - rituals are extremely important in the human experience, but, like grand says, the sentiment and actual ritual is important. It may make you feel good, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing.

 

I have a bad habit of ranting. Does it make me feel better to rant and rave and let loose to my husband over things that irritate me or make me frustrated? In the moment - kind of. But you do that enough and realise it never solves the actual problem. It’s a release, but it hurts you after, and never feels really as good as you think it’s going too.

 

The closest I’ve come to coming near to resolution with worries and anger has been, putting it aside, and trying to better myself, and just simply live well. Live for other people. And not engross myself with how I feel, as I have a bad habit of focusing on that too much, and in the long run, it’s getting out of your own head and doing nice and good things for others, and being successful (your own personal version of success) which is what seems to really heal. I might be totally wrong. Again, it’s not as if I’m perfect or a psychologist. I just know when I have been at my happiest, and it’s not when I’m in a revengeful or victim like mood - it’s when I forget myself and am just being with my kids, or husband, or taking responsibility, being part of our community, social things, positive things - doing things that take me outside of myself. 

 

I’m not trying to pee on your parade Cynder. If that works for you, that works for you. I just have a different opinion and don’t agree it’s a healthy way of getting closure. Can you ever get full closure? I have my doubts regarding that as well. 

 

Might be my British sensibilities this time round!

 

x

A couple things I would like to address in here. The OP has been in therapy from the way it sounds and is otherwise doing the work it takes to move on from this abusive relationship. The act of reading the letter to the gravesite is confronting their abuser and in doing so it’s a big step towards healing. 
 

Sure the spitting probably wasn’t necessary but maybe it was the OP’s way of asserting themselves in a relationship where the dynamic was that they didn’t feel they were heard while their dad was alive. It’s a dramatic gesture but maybe that was the final step OP needed to put it behind them. 
 

The spitting didn’t cause any real damage to anyone or any thing. I don’t see any ultimate harm in it. The only harm would be to do it again because if it was a final confrontation before moving on it’s fine but it is not acceptable to use something like that as a regular coping strategy.  If OP was talking about their weekly ritual of spitting on the grave I would agree with you but it sounds like a one time thing. 
 

Also I don’t believe that we can control our emotions. If we could no one would ever feel anything bad ever again. While we cannot control our emotions we can choose whether or not we want to listen to them and it’s our follow through that gives emotions their power. We can choose to let emotions play out in the background or we can choose to listen. 
 

We cannot will those emotions away and we shouldn’t feel guilty for thinking or feeling bad stuff. Acting on those feelings or giving them validity sure but simply thinking something negative is not only normal but harmless in and of itself. 
 

What happens when we think that we can control how we feel is we add guilt to our list of negative emotions once we inevitably fail and suppressing something negative. It’s like intentionally trying not to think about a pink elephant, you do that hard enough and you’ll be consumed by that thought. 
 

 

[mylolita]

Just now, Big Stan said:

A couple things I would like to address in here. The OP has been in therapy from the way it sounds and is otherwise doing the work it takes to move on from this abusive relationship. The act of reading the letter to the gravesite is confronting their abuser and in doing so it’s a big step towards healing. 
 

Sure the spitting probably wasn’t necessary but maybe it was the OP’s way of asserting themselves in a relationship where the dynamic was that they didn’t feel they were heard while their dad was alive. It’s a dramatic gesture but maybe that was the final step OP needed to put it behind them. 
 

The spitting didn’t cause any real damage to anyone or any thing. I don’t see any ultimate harm in it. The only harm would be to do it again because if it was a final confrontation before moving on it’s fine but it is not acceptable to use something like that as a regular coping strategy.  If OP was talking about their weekly ritual of spitting on the grave I would agree with you but it sounds like a one time thing. 
 

Also I don’t believe that we can control our emotions. If we could no one would ever feel anything bad ever again. While we cannot control our emotions we can choose whether or not we want to listen to them and it’s our follow through that gives emotions their power. We can choose to let emotions play out in the background or we can choose to listen. 
 

We cannot will those emotions away and we shouldn’t feel guilty for thinking or feeling bad stuff. Acting on those feelings or giving them validity sure but simply thinking something negative is not only normal but harmless in and of itself. 
 

What happens when we think that we can control how we feel is we add guilt to our list of negative emotions once we inevitably fail and suppressing something negative. It’s like intentionally trying not to think about a pink elephant, you do that hard enough and you’ll be consumed by that thought. 
 

 

When I say control our emotions, I mean handle them as they come up. There is a choice. Something primal in us shoots off - we feel anger, or love, or frustration - whatever it may be, and the power lies within us all to make a decision how to react. 
 

I don’t mean you are not allowed to ever feel anger again, or that you should be this perfect un-feeling person.

 

I think you are wilfully putting the wrong sentiment there Big Stan to what I wrote.

 

I just don’t think spitting on a grave is a good thing. Some people do, obviously. That’s their opinion. The OP is of course entitled to deal with her past and feelings however she feels fit - and I actually don’t advocate therapy, and have never been to therapy. I think you can have therapy until the cows come home, as much medication as they’ll load you with - but if you’re not ready to try to really move on, it’s only going to temporarily mask the problem. I’m British - we generally don’t go in for therapy, on the whole. 
 

If you think a single ritualistic act will rid someone of a lifetimes worth of hate and resentment, and give them closure - I will be honest and say, you are maybe being naive in my opinion.

 

You might feel great in the moment, even after, but long term? Is anything truly resolved? 
 

I do genuinely hope so! It would be a great thought to think letter reading a true to the heart letter and spitting on a grave brings final closure, and the OP can move on. 
 

To me, it’s not a great way of dealing with your emotions, and it’s not a mature thing for grown adults to be getting involved in but, if it’s what works - I don’t feel that strongly about it that I’m going to violently condemn it or anything.

 

Again, maybe my Mum should have just gone and spat on her mothers grave with my Dad and she would feel better about my Grandma? I don’t know. Different strokes for different folks.

 

It’s an aggressive act, spitting, and classed as physical assault here in England, so maybe my view of this is due to different cultures.

 

 

[mylolita]

By the way, I am not sticking up or defending abuse, and in my world anyone who does that gets the chair or life in prison, depending on exactly which crime.

 

I am not advocating meek and mild forgiveness and floating away on a cloud by turning the other cheek - I just don’t think it’s a good thing and I don’t applaude it and I think you can move on in different, more healthy ways. 
 

It’s just my opinion. Again, not a psychologist, not perfect myself - 33, still learning. 

[Big Stan]

15 minutes ago, mylolita said:

. 
 

I think you are wilfully putting the wrong sentiment there Big Stan to what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

That’s not fair. You don’t know me near well enough to accuse me of willfully misrepresenting what you said. I was fair and I went by what was written in your post. I responded directly to words that you wrote. 
 

I am not clairvoyant and therefore I cannot comment based on your intentions only on what’s in black and white. I’m good but I’m not that good. Plus I cannot fail to see the irony in you taking umbrage to my reply to your direct words while directly ascribing malice to my reply. 
 

You’re doing directly what you’ve accused me of indirectly doing. I’ve done nothing wrong with my responses. Instead of picking a fight with me perhaps reflect on how you can communicate more effectively to avoid misunderstandings in the future. 

[mylolita]

1 minute ago, Big Stan said:

That’s not fair. You don’t know me near well enough to accuse me of willfully misrepresenting what you said. I was fair and I went by what was written in your post. I responded directly to words that you wrote. 
 

I am not clairvoyant and therefore I cannot comment based on your intentions only on what’s in black and white. I’m good but I’m not that good. Plus I cannot fail to see the irony in you taking umbrage to my reply to your direct words while directly ascribing malice to my reply. 
 

You’re doing directly what you’ve accused me of indirectly doing. I’ve done nothing wrong with my responses. Instead of picking a fight with me perhaps reflect on how you can communicate more effectively to avoid misunderstandings in the future. 

How about do the same my dear! 
 

Never said I was very good or a great amazing person - just gave my opinion that I didn’t think spitting on someone’s grave is a good, healthy thing or a way to gain closure. 
 

If it works for the OP, it works. I just don’t agree.

 

And I never meant to control your emotions like Iron Man - you took it that way, it wasn’t my sentiment, so I’m just letting you know that you’re wrong in that regard. If you read that into it, then I apologise if I mislead you or wasn’t clear enough for you.

 

I think you are, actually, quite malicious - but again, that’s my opinion. It’s not a popularity contest here, it’s an advice board, and my personal free advice is, don’t spit on your parents grave, no matter how horrendously they treated you. I actually don’t believe it will help in the long run at all.

 

Again, if this helps the OP, if you think this is an okay idea, if you approve, etc - that is up to you. I’m giving my advice and input. Not here to debate the back and forth and semantics of how I said something or how it came across.

 

If it’s not clear Big Stan - I apologise. Again, I just don’t think spitting on someone’s grave is a good healthy thing. I doubt its ability to give closure. That is all. 
 

This isn’t about you and what you think of me or my response - if the OP wants to reply to my response and not like it I completely get that. Not here to debate your personal take on another take. You can do that on the feminist thread if you like, but I’m not getting into it with you here, because I think you argue dirty and twist everything, and then just say “it’s on you that’s what you think that’s not fair”. 
 

If you want to start t*t for tat debates you’ll have to get it on with someone else babe! I’m not into it! 
 

 

[mylolita]

18 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

I don’t care what you think of me, all you really needed to say was the first paragraph I left here and move on.  Also it’s not that I’m wrong it’s that you write poorly so misunderstandings can happen.   Take some accountability for your failures. Grow up and stop with the tantrums

 

I’m going to call out people when they say something I believe is incorrect, and you did.  Get over it.  Also you sure are replying and antagonizing me an awful lot for someone who’s not looking to trade blows with me.  Don’t start throwing mud then run away when you’re called out on your BS  

 

I’m sorry, I can’t take you seriously. 
 

You can also think what you like of me, and do exactly what you accuse me of - by taking what I say and making assumptions.

 

You get into name calling and swearing, and I’m not going down that route. 
 

Again, I’m sorry if you think spitting on a grave is a good and healthy thing - I don’t. You don’t need to get into it with me. Just a difference of opinion. If I didn’t write well enough for you, or you can’t read between lines, I didn’t wilfully mean miscommunication. 
 

No need for nasty come backs, insults, etc. In my opinion, that is the low blow immature thing. We can all go there. 
 

For the record - again - I don’t agree with spitting on graves. There we go. If you want to carry on about how I put that across or the way I write or if I’m unclear, I’m not going to argue the t*ss. 

 

I will apologise to Cynder if she feels I have been unkind or too hard in my opinion on the grave spitting. But I’m not getting into it with you. 
 

How ridiculous!

[Big Stan]

21 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I’m sorry, I can’t take you seriously. 
 

You can also think what you like of me, and do exactly what you accuse me of - by taking what I say and making assumptions.

 

You get into name calling and swearing, and I’m not going down that route. 
 

Again, I’m sorry if you think spitting on a grave is a good and healthy thing - I don’t. You don’t need to get into it with me. Just a difference of opinion. If I didn’t write well enough for you, or you can’t read between lines, I didn’t wilfully mean miscommunication. 
 

No need for nasty come backs, insults, etc. In my opinion, that is the low blow immature thing. We can all go there. 
 

For the record - again - I don’t agree with spitting on graves. There we go. If you want to carry on about how I put that across or the way I write or if I’m unclear, I’m not going to argue the t*ss. 

 

I will apologise to Cynder if she feels I have been unkind or too hard in my opinion on the grave spitting. But I’m not getting into it with you. 
 

How ridiculous!

Yawn. It’s really hard to believe you’re “not getting into it with me” when you’ve repeatedly gone out of your way to antagonize me. Your words don’t match your actions and it’s pretty entertaining to watch you claim the high road while acting like a child. 
 

If you really didn’t want to interact with me you wouldn’t. I have no such issue with you therefore I’m not going to stop. Put your big girl pants on and take some responsibility for your actions. 

[Cherylyn]

For me personally,  since my late father was horrible towards my poor mother and the family to put it mildly,  it would require more effort for me to schedule my week or month to take the time to drive faraway to the cemetery,  spend gas,  wear 'n tear on my car for the long drive,  search for his grave site (tombstone),  walk afar from my car regardless of the weather that day,  stand there in the breeze and hurl spit at the grave marker.  Also,  if anyone were to accompany me,  my husband would have to coincide his already hectic schedule with mine which is an extra hassle for both of us.  After all that,  we'd have to make the long drive leaving the cemetery and arrive home feeling fatigued.  I have better things to do with my precious time and energy than plan to spit at a cemetery.  To me,  it's a tremendous waste of my time which is a commodity I'm not willing to trade even for the dead.  However, that's just me and if you,  OP @Cynder found closure you're looking for,  I'm glad it worked for you.

[mylolita]

43 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

Yawn. It’s really hard to believe you’re “not getting into it with me” when you’ve repeatedly gone out of your way to antagonize me. Your words don’t match your actions and it’s pretty entertaining to watch you claim the high road while acting like a child. 
 

If you really didn’t want to interact with me you wouldn’t. I have no such issue with you therefore I’m not going to stop. Put your big girl pants on and take some responsibility for your actions. 

Maybe someone will spit on your grave when you’re dead, y’know? 
 

Maybe someone will spit on mine.

 

Fascinating! 

[Big Stan]

9 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Maybe someone will spit on your grave when you’re dead, y’know? 
 

Maybe someone will spit on mine.

 

Fascinating! 

There’s the 4th reply you’ve made to me after telling me you were done engaging with me. 

[TacticalLinguine]

26 minutes ago, Big Stan said:

There’s the 4th reply you’ve made to me after telling me you were done engaging with me. 

What point are you making exactly? Are you just being petty? 
 

Hate to tell you this but on an online forum people engage when they feel like it. Pretty simple. 

[Big Stan]

Just now, TacticalLinguine said:

What point are you making exactly? Are you just being petty? 
 

Hate to tell you this but on an online forum people engage when they feel like it. Pretty simple. 

The point I’m making is people should be responsible for their own choices and when they tell me they aren’t going to engage with me they shouldn’t continue to antagonize me. 
 

People engaging when they feel like applies to me too. I feel like commenting and I feel like doing it again. Pretty simple right?

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

May I ask is your mom still living? What sort of relationship do you have with her now? Did she ever show remorse or apologize to you for putting you in that situation and failing to protect you? Does she support you now? Did she heal ? 

I don't think it's the best choice to spit on a grave but ultimately the only person it can really hurt is you. How can it hurt you? Well honestly I'm thinking of many years ago, I burnt a picture symbolically of an ex. It just felt icky after. Like, I don't want to be this person who wishes to erase another human being even symbolically! And somewhat the same here. Do you want to be a person who spits on Graves? It's done, so nothing you can do now except you get to decide what defines you going forward. Your actions are yours, just like your mom and dad's were theirs. 

 

 

 

 

Oops, not sure what I just did here, but I can't delete this post.  My actual reply will be coming shortly.  Sorry. 

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, itsallgrand said:

May I ask is your mom still living? What sort of relationship do you have with her now? Did she ever show remorse or apologize to you for putting you in that situation and failing to protect you? Does she support you now? Did she heal ? 

I don't think it's the best choice to spit on a grave but ultimately the only person it can really hurt is you. How can it hurt you? Well honestly I'm thinking of many years ago, I burnt a picture symbolically of an ex. It just felt icky after. Like, I don't want to be this person who wishes to erase another human being even symbolically! And somewhat the same here. Do you want to be a person who spits on Graves? It's done, so nothing you can do now except you get to decide what defines you going forward. Your actions are yours, just like your mom and dad's were theirs. 

 

 

 

 

My Mom and I have a good relationship now, but that's a recent thing.  I was my whole family's scapegoat for a long time.  My Mom has shown a lot of remorse for things.  I also can see that she was in a bad situation, too.  She was so young when she had me. 

I don't think she has ever really healed.  She did quit drinking about 5 years ago, though.  My youngest brother disowned all of us and that was what made her stop drinking. 

Do I want to be a person who spits on graves?  It doesn't really matter now how I answer that because I already am a person who spits on graves. But I'm also a person who does random acts of kindness whenever I can. I'm also a person who goes out of their way to make other people's day better, etc. 

I don't really feel bad about it anymore.  I also don't really look at death he same way as most people do.  When I die I want my body donated to science and I want everyone to have a big party celebrating my life.  And this is coming from someone who has had a NDE, so I know where I'm going when I die.  I also know I probably don't have a lot of time left because the women on my Dad's side of the family die pretty young.  And I got my Dad's genes when it comes to everything else, so it's reasonable to think I won't live a long life.  My dad died pretty young too, he was only 51. 

To be 100% honest if I knew where the man who sexually abused my sisters and I was buried I would probably go to his grave and do the same thing.  Graves, funerals, etc are for the living, not the dead.  Everyone stands around talking about what a great person someone is when they die.  But we rarely tell them that while they're alive. 

[itsallgrand]

I'm glad your mom has been doing better and you can have a relationship. That's great. The quitting drinking is great. Makes a huge difference in being able to have a relationship . 

As long as you feel right with yourself on this, well there's not much for me to add. I thought maybe you were feeling uneasy about it but I guess I misunderstood. 

 

[Cherylyn]

I'm sorry for everything you,  your sisters and mother experienced @Cynder.  I hope you and your family are healing.

I agree,  grave sites and funerals are for the living and it's extremely expensive nowadays but for some people,  it's to honor the deceased especially if they deserved tributes and accolades.

I've actually told my husband that I felt like spitting on my father's tombstone but I've since reconsidered because he's not worth my time and energy but that's just me.  Since it brought closure for you to write the letter and spit at the cemetery,  then so be it.  

As for good people,  I agree,  we don't praise them enough while they're living and often times take them for granted.  I don't have guilt because I know in my heart that they were loved and cared for in my own way because actions spoke louder than words.   

I'm glad you're on better terms with my mother.  I am, too.  However,  I cannot forget how miserable my mother was courtesy of her late husband and how she lashed out her frustrations on this scapegoat which was me.  She has since mellowed through the years and we have a civil relationship due to my strict boundaries with her.  She's very soft and loving nowadays but there's a huge part of me who will never forgive her.  The best I can do is occasionally drop off home cooked meals,  new clothes and household supplies at her house every so many months.  No more,  no less.  She's lucky she gets that from me if anything. 

I told my husband that I wanted to reveal all the gory details during my mother's future eulogy but then again,  I thought the better of it and what good would it do to air the family's dirty laundry?  I want to awake tomorrow morning knowing I possessed aplomb,   retained composure and class while still enforcing strong boundaries with those who don't qualify to be decent human beings in my life past or present.   

[TacticalLinguine]

1 hour ago, Big Stan said:

The point I’m making is people should be responsible for their own choices and when they tell me they aren’t going to engage with me they shouldn’t continue to antagonize me. 
 

People engaging when they feel like applies to me too. I feel like commenting and I feel like doing it again. Pretty simple right?

It is that simple, I’m glad you’re getting it! 

[Cynder]

9 hours ago, mylolita said:

They are perfect parents and not in an unstable financially pressed situation where the heating is turned off and they struggle to pay the bills and he struggles with suicidal thoughts? 
 

I must be reading the wrong journal Cynder. 
 

And you’re right, from afar, I don’t think these people do sound clear of mind and like good friends or lovers, and a poly situation with a trans woman is often fraught with complications and drama - yours might be different, I hope it is, but I just think when you already have a hard time mentally, you should make things as easy as possible for yourself and be friends or partners with stable, well rounded people. 
 

I just can’t congratulate you spitting on your fathers grave. 
 

I can see why therapists never suggest things like that. I understand it could be frustrating to go to therapy and see little to no change after many years, and maybe their techniques aren’t the best, and maybe the current medication isn’t the best, but I personally don’t think spitting on someone’s grave is the answer to heal trauma, pain and hate.
 

You don’t want to stoop low in order to feel high.

 

x

Back in March his power was shut off for a few days.  That was actually a mistake on the power company's part.  Him and his son went and stayed with a friend until it got straightened out. 

So in your eyes that makes him a couch surfer who can't provide a stable environment for his son.  Ok.  You're entitled to think whatever you want about him.  But that's a serious stretch, in my opinion.

You also supposedly read in my journal that my ex husband was an alcoholic.  I was with him for ten years and saw him drink maybe three times.  One of those times was the toast at our wedding.  Are you one of those people who thinks everyone who drinks ever in their life is an alcoholic? (I know some people actually do think that and I am genuinely curious now.) If so, I drank a couple hard seltzers the other day at a cookout.  I guess I'm an alcoholic too then, lol.  D was the host of said cookout and provided the drinks so he's my enabler, lol.  I can already see the replies in future threads where you tell me I admitted to being an alcoholic and that D forces me to attend drunken Bacchanalian parties at his house.  Lol  Oh and the skunks join in on all the debauchery too.  Of course, why wouldn't they. The expression "Drunk as a skunk" is actually a reference to D's parties.  Ok... I need to stop.  I am obviously being sarcastic and making myself laugh.  But I don't want to get in trouble. 

All sarcasm aside, do you see the point I'm making?  

I'm flattered that my journal is so entertaining.  🙂

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, Big Stan said:

A couple things I would like to address in here. The OP has been in therapy from the way it sounds and is otherwise doing the work it takes to move on from this abusive relationship. The act of reading the letter to the gravesite is confronting their abuser and in doing so it’s a big step towards healing. 
 

Sure the spitting probably wasn’t necessary but maybe it was the OP’s way of asserting themselves in a relationship where the dynamic was that they didn’t feel they were heard while their dad was alive. It’s a dramatic gesture but maybe that was the final step OP needed to put it behind them. 
 

The spitting didn’t cause any real damage to anyone or any thing. I don’t see any ultimate harm in it. The only harm would be to do it again because if it was a final confrontation before moving on it’s fine but it is not acceptable to use something like that as a regular coping strategy.  If OP was talking about their weekly ritual of spitting on the grave I would agree with you but it sounds like a one time thing. 
 

Also I don’t believe that we can control our emotions. If we could no one would ever feel anything bad ever again. While we cannot control our emotions we can choose whether or not we want to listen to them and it’s our follow through that gives emotions their power. We can choose to let emotions play out in the background or we can choose to listen. 
 

We cannot will those emotions away and we shouldn’t feel guilty for thinking or feeling bad stuff. Acting on those feelings or giving them validity sure but simply thinking something negative is not only normal but harmless in and of itself. 
 

What happens when we think that we can control how we feel is we add guilt to our list of negative emotions once we inevitably fail and suppressing something negative. It’s like intentionally trying not to think about a pink elephant, you do that hard enough and you’ll be consumed by that thought. 
 

 

I absolutely love how you explained this.  I am someone who really struggles a lot with intrusive thoughts.  Sometimes it's really hard to just accept that thinking bad things is normal and party of being human. 

I don't plan on going back to my Dad's grave.  I didn't say this in the OP, but someone else was there that day and put flowers there.  There was a fresh arrangement of flowers sitting there.  My Dad had people who loved him, too.  The flowers being there almost made it seem balanced out.  

And you're right, I never felt heard when he was alive.  This was a way of feeling heard. 

[Cynder]

50 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

I'm glad your mom has been doing better and you can have a relationship. That's great. The quitting drinking is great. Makes a huge difference in being able to have a relationship . 

As long as you feel right with yourself on this, well there's not much for me to add. I thought maybe you were feeling uneasy about it but I guess I misunderstood. 

 

You didn't misunderstand anything because yesterday when I posted this I did feel a little guilty about it. 

My Mom quit drinking in hopes that my youngest brother would let her see my nephew.  My brother had a son and that's when he stopped talking to all of us because he doesn't want his son growing up around all the dysfunction in our family.  I can't say I blame him in that respect.  But my Mom decided to quit drinking and really get her act together in hopes that my brother would speak to her again.  But he still won't.  That's what I don't agree with. 

I think being raised around substance abuse taught all of my siblings and I how to be responsible about it.  If nothing else, there's that. 

[Cynder]

5 hours ago, mylolita said:

and I actually don’t advocate therapy,

This is interesting considering all the negative opinions you seem to have about anyone with a mental illness. 

[Cynder]

3 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

For me personally,  since my late father was horrible towards my poor mother and the family to put it mildly,  it would require more effort for me to schedule my week or month to take the time to drive faraway to the cemetery,  spend gas,  wear 'n tear on my car for the long drive,  search for his grave site (tombstone),  walk afar from my car regardless of the weather that day,  stand there in the breeze and hurl spit at the grave marker.  Also,  if anyone were to accompany me,  my husband would have to coincide his already hectic schedule with mine which is an extra hassle for both of us.  After all that,  we'd have to make the long drive leaving the cemetery and arrive home feeling fatigued.  I have better things to do with my precious time and energy than plan to spit at a cemetery.  To me,  it's a tremendous waste of my time which is a commodity I'm not willing to trade even for the dead.  However, that's just me and if you,  OP @Cynder found closure you're looking for,  I'm glad it worked for you.

If my Dad's grave was really far away I wouldn't have bothered.  But the cemetery is literally 5 minutes away.  This was a spur of the moment thing, also.