Friend's extreme fear of Covid has returned

[Wonderstruck]

1 minute ago, WorkSux56 said:

Yes, for my own selfish reasons, it'd be good to have her back. Yeah, I said it. That's selfish of me, sure. But it also speaks to how much I wish the previous version of her could return so she could hike and camp and go to museums and offbeat attractions in other areas of the country. The things SHE used to do and ENJOYED doing and wishes she could again. Maybe she will one day and maybe she won't. This could be permanent. For her sake, I hope it isn't. But, it may very well be. Yes, it SO inconveniences me!! It makes me sit with my arms folded pouting like a child. 🙄

You're extremely rude and defensive, and it makes me feel sorry for this girl.

You even ADMITTED that you sarcastically mocked her with your comment about the toilet paper.

And the way that you've been rudely addressing both me and SherrySher leads me to believe that you're not exactly a gentle, kind, and patient person.

But that's exactly what this girl needs right now - a gentle, kind, and patient person who will NOT sarcastically mock or get annoyed with her mental health struggles.

I think it's VERY telling that the second I pushed back against you, you responded with a dismissive laughing emoji reaction.

[WorkSux56]

16 minutes ago, Wonderstruck said:

You're extremely rude and defensive, and it makes me feel sorry for this girl.

You even ADMITTED that you sarcastically mocked her with your comment about the toilet paper.

And the way that you've been rudely addressing both me and SherrySher leads me to believe that you're not exactly a gentle, kind, and patient person.

But that's exactly what this girl needs right now - a gentle, kind, and patient person who will NOT sarcastically mock or get annoyed with her mental health struggles.

I think it's VERY telling that the second I pushed back against you, you responded with a dismissive laughing emoji reaction.

When I made that sarcastic remark " I hope I can find TP at the store" I was sincerely surprised when she reacted by saying "let me know if you can't". I realized then that it was more serious than I thought. She had had an incident where someone yanked a package of TP out of her hands in early 2020 when all the panic buying was happening. But, it's hard to get a read on her sometimes because she actually laughs about that incident now. So, maybe that's why I took a liberty with my sarcastic remark. But he reaction was one of concern, so I pulled back. One night, she messages me. She says "hey...you up? I need to talk". So we video chatted awhile. She says "I am getting unfriended left and right. Then she told me that it was because she was posting old outdated memes to other people's pages. So, I say "yeah...maybe stop with that". Now, I do believe that posting to other people's pages is something she CAN control. And, for what it's worth, the old outdated memes she was posting to other people's pages were funny ones. That's when I said "hey...maybe share some current funny stuff to friend's pages. Because those 2020 jokes are kind of over now. Ya know?" and the whole time, we are both laughing. Then, I used seeing Jack Tripper falling over the coffee table on Three's Company for the 70th time as an example. She liked that. She laughed. Believe it or not, she wants me to make her laugh. And yeah, sometimes I may poke a little and have a "come on, snap out of it" tone and that's not always appropriate. But, that aside, if she says lighten the mood, I am going to lighten the mood. 

[boltnrun]

When my anxiety was at its worst I couldn't even fathom getting off my couch let alone going hiking or visiting museums or camping. It took everything I had to do grocery pickups and go to the laundromat. I was even afraid to take out the trash! I had lived in a lovely townhome that had a beautiful and spacious backyard but I never went out there because I was afraid someone on the other side of the (six foot high) wall might sneeze or cough and infect me. Yes, I honestly feared that happening! I feared my sleeve brushing up against a grocery cart and somehow infecting me because there was so much emphasis placed on hand sanitizer and hand washing. Even now that it's been proven the virus is transmitted through breathing I still hate to touch things. I wash my hands so frequently I've permanently damaged my skin. 

I presume she can't even think about hiking or camping and is struggling just to get through each day. 

I feel sympathy for her because I understand her fear. But she has to take the steps of recognizing her thoughts and actions are not healthy and seeking professional help. If she won't even acknowledge she has a problem it will never be resolved. And no one can convince her. It has to come from her. She may have an external catalyst or motivation but in the end she has to make the decision to seek help.

And as I said earlier, it's nearly impossible for someone who doesn't struggle with mental health issues to understand. She can't "just stop" or "snap out of it" or hear logic and facts and have them affect her anxiety. It just doesn't work. It's like telling someone who is diagnosed with leukemia to "just stop" or "snap out of it" because they're no longer going hiking or camping. Fortunately, though, many mental health conditions can improve with treatment.

I hope she chooses to seek treatment for her own health. It would be sad if she lived out the rest of her life this way. 

[Seraphim]

19 minutes ago, WorkSux56 said:

When I made that sarcastic remark " I hope I can find TP at the store" I was sincerely surprised when she reacted by saying "let me know if you can't". I realized then that it was more serious than I thought. She had had an incident where someone yanked a package of TP out of her hands in early 2020 when all the panic buying was happening. But, it's hard to get a read on her sometimes because she actually laughs about that incident now. So, maybe that's why I took a liberty with my sarcastic remark. But he reaction was one of concern, so I pulled back. One night, she messages me. She says "hey...you up? I need to talk". So we video chatted awhile. She says "I am getting unfriended left and right. Then she told me that it was because she was posting old outdated memes to other people's pages. So, I say "yeah...maybe stop with that". Now, I do believe that posting to other people's pages is something she CAN control. And, for what it's worth, the old outdated memes she was posting to other people's pages were funny ones. That's when I said "hey...maybe share some current funny stuff to friend's pages. Because those 2020 jokes are kind of over now. Ya know?" and the whole time, we are both laughing. Then, I used seeing Jack Tripper falling over the coffee table on Three's Company for the 70th time as an example. She liked that. She laughed. Believe it or not, she wants me to make her laugh. And yeah, sometimes I may poke a little and have a "come on, snap out of it" tone and that's not always appropriate. But, that aside, if she says lighten the mood, I am going to lighten the mood. 

Maybe she need to be “ forced “ into taking action? Would she be willing to have you take her to her doctor? When my husband was suicidal in Feb I drove him directly to the hospital. 

[boltnrun]

I can't speak for her but when my anxiety was really bad the last place I wanted to go was a doctor's office full of sick people. It didn't help that I have actually gotten sick from someone at a doctor office waiting room and so have my kids. The only reason I took myself to the doctor is the psychologist my insurance company set me up with wanted me to be put on medication and I had to see a medical doctor so he could write the prescription. No one would have been able to "take" me to a doctor, especially back then. 

This may be in your OP, but is she working currently? And if so, is she working remotely or in person? I quit a very high paying job that was the result of a promotion I had worked very hard to get because I would have had to work in person in a large group of people (a hundred and more) and there was no way I was able to do that. My psychologist supported my decision to quit. I'm just curious how she's handling working. 

[Seraphim]

Well, she can’t really sit at home and do squat or nothing will change . 

[boltnrun]

9 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Well, she can’t really sit at home and do squat or nothing will change . 

Yes, I agree. I've been saying all along she needs professional help. I just don't know that physically forcing her into a doctor's office is going to go over well. I know if someone had tried that with me I would have had an epic meltdown. Even if it was someone I love dearly.

[Seraphim]

Someone will have to put in the work to bring it to someone’s attention because she isn’t capable.  

[SherrySher]

I honestly can see both sides of what you're saying here, Seraphim.

I truly do believe that this lady does in fact need to be more active on getting herself well by seeking out therapy, possible medication, and help in general that will benefit her.

Doing nothing will only keep the problem going and could get even worse.

It's the forcing bit that I am on the fence about.

If someone is unable to fully comprehend what is going on (as in a psychotic episode), or if they are suicidal and are a threat to themselves, then absolutely someone needs to take over and get them help when they aren't in the right mind set to get the help they need.

However, an anxiety disorder/phobia is slightly different(at least in my mind). Most times (not all), but most times, the person has to want to  make the choice to seek help and to get better.

Forcing might actually heighten the anxiety.

People sometimes in cases like this, need to hit rock bottom so to speak and decide they can't live like this anymore, before they are willing to make a move and reach out for help.

It's a very delicate situation, and I do hope that this lady decides she wants help and will get the help she needs.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

Forcing might actually heighten the anxiety.

I was once asked to go on a small boat for a company outing.  The problem was -it was my very first day of work and no one had told me and I had a fear of motion sickness on small boats and had never taken dramamine (with advance notice I may have tested out dramamine in advance and brought clothes to change into as it was really hot out).  I was very conflicted.  I actually took half a dramamine and tried to force myself to go.  I went downtown and it was windy out.  Small boat rocking there. I knew I couldn't do it -these were new coworkers -what if I felt queasy or weird or scared??

So I turned around and left without most people seeing that I even arrived.  Actually rode train home with a new coworker who was only there to see everyone off.  She actually agreed that the current was strong that day etc.  

The next day one of my new supervisors told me I should have gone and it was a mistake not to go, I missed out.

Trying to force myself plus this supervisor telling me I should have gone only made me feel worse. It did not help at all in any future decisions related to my (irrational) fears of motion sickness.

I'd also called friends that day for advice.  But people who didn't have that intense phobia were well meaning but didn't really get it.  The thoughtful friends did their best not to make me feel badly about being the new employee who already skips out on a work event. Had someone tried to pep talk me into going or "forced" it would have made me feel even more conflicted.  

[SherrySher]

It's along the lines of Exposure therapy, and from my experience with it, it truly can do two ways.

It can force the person to meet their fear/phobia head on and it works so that the person isn't as scared anymore, or it can escalate the fear and deepen the intense anxiety and fear.

it can go either way and no way to predict which way it will go. 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

It's along the lines of Exposure therapy, and from my experience with it, it truly can do two ways.

It can force the person to meet their fear/phobia head on and it works so that the person isn't as scared anymore, or it can escalate the fear and deepen the intense anxiety and fear.

it can go either way and no way to predict which way it will go. 

Yes and I think exposure should be done with the guidance of a therapist.  I never had therapy for my phobia and exposure to throwing up at least back then likely wasn't advisable but my "healing" came actually in large part from a personal exposure to almost getting sick and my reaction to it and experiene of it somehow healed me.  There were a number of people who tried to pressure me to do scary situations related to my phobia and mostly it was unhelpful to me.

[Seraphim]

4 minutes ago, SherrySher said:

It's along the lines of Exposure therapy, and from my experience with it, it truly can do two ways.

It can force the person to meet their fear/phobia head on and it works so that the person isn't as scared anymore, or it can escalate the fear and deepen the intense anxiety and fear.

it can go either way and no way to predict which way it will go. 

For me exposure therapy works except in the case of medical phobia where I need to be heavily medicated 2 mg of Lorazepam just to get through a dental appointment. But when I had agoraphobia forcing myself to go out worked, same for Covid fears. If I wanted to eat working was necessary so I had to be exposed to people. People ARE my work. 

[boltnrun]

I had an intense fear of going over bridges (the big ones, not little footbridges or pedestrian bridges). For years I would drive miles out of my way to avoid them. If I was a passenger in a car that went over a bridge I was terrified, sick and in tears. It did NOT reduce or remove my fear. 

But one day I wanted to go hiking on a trail a couple of cities over. I had the option of driving over TWO big bridges or going 45 minutes out of my way to get there. I got angry and thought "eff that, I am NOT going that far out of my way today!" And I gritted my teeth and drove over the bridges. Since then I have no problem going over bridges.

But I had to make that decision for myself. No one could "force" me and no one could talk or joke me out of my fear.

If she agrees to have you take her to a doctor that's one thing. But forcefully taking her to a doctor against her will is insensitive and wouldn't go over well. She would probably feel betrayed. If she's not a danger to herself or others an adult cannot be forced into a doctor's office. 

But again, I truly hope she chooses to seek help for her issues. 

[Starlight925]

There is a psychological phenomenon where a person gets enmeshed in a certain era within their life, and lives in that era.  Think of the aging high school football star who can't seem to realize that he's not in his glory days anymore.  I have a high school cheerleader Facebook "friend" who is in her 60's who continually poses in a particular NFL team outfit, tight-fitting, posing.  Bleaches her hair, plastic surgery, fillers, can't seem to believe that she's not 17 anymore.

Your friend, I believe, has found a comfort place.  For her.  

She is comfortable in her home, not socializing, as for many, the stay-at-home orders put people in a bubble.  I admit, I enjoyed being made to stay home.  Yoga pants, Zoom calls, and homemade cappuccino all day was nice.  As was getting to know my neighbors with our 6' apart wine evenings.

Where this affects you is, you've moved yourself out of the bubble.  

Don't expect her to move out of it until she's ready.

I've come to realize that, for some, the bubble might be forever.  That's ok, she's not hurting anyone, and she's not asking for your help.

Where it also affects you is that you desire a non-bubble relationship with her, which you simply can't have.

I empathize with you, and I get it.  I had some bubble-intense family members for a while.  I just sort of let them be, loved them from the phone, and they moved out of the bubble on their own.  

But in this situation, you have 2 choices:  Recognize that this is a distance-only friendship, or move on completely.  Either way, keep the love for her in your heart.  You'll never go wrong.

 

[Seraphim]

Think that is what it comes down to, a phone relationship only or move on . Both sad, but very little you can do. 

[SherrySher]

I do still have hope that she will get help, but when and how soon, it's difficult to say.

She has to be tired enough to living with the fear and wants something more.

She needs to feel safe again and have the courage again that the world is somewhat safe and that the threats are no longer there.

She needs time. 

It's okay though if you need to continue moving forward and can't stay in her "bubble" as Starlight mentioned.

People heal in their own time, but it might be holding you back and that's not healthy either.

[boltnrun]

I haven't even attempted to date because I know it's not fair to insist a man be fully vaccinated and boosted before I'll even meet him. And I don't want to act weird in front of a man I don't know. Jeez... it's bad enough my family sees me doing weird things!

I don't know if you're still reading, but I'm curious if she is able to go to work and if she goes grocery shopping and runs errands, etc.