Adult Son w/ abusive GF; Estranged from Parents

[Mamma_Mia70]

Son (22), has GF (21) with borderline personality disorder. Son has loving family and had a privileged upbringing. He's an empath. He's kind, protective, and loyal. He's also prone to anxiety and depression. Coming of age during the pandemic took a toll on him.

GF had traumatic childhood, proudly admits to hating her mother.

GF fabricated a whopper about me. Son refuses to speak with me, Dad, or siblings - not even to get our response to her lie. GF wrote me lengthy email and texts to "document" her lie and my "failings" as a mother. After this happened, some of her relatives have come forth to share other things she's done - including trying to make a pact with her cousins to make false allegations of sexual abuse about another relative to the police.

To me, it seems the GF is trying to make me into a bad mom in his eyes and then trauma bond over their shared bad mothers. I'm flabbergasted he can't see it. 

Estrangement with Son is coming up to the one year anniversary. I'm so worried about him. He's an adult so I have accepted the boundaries he's set forth (that is, no contact), but is there anything I can do to ensure he knows we are here when he's ready? Are there any resources for someone in his situation to turn to when they realize they're being abused? Are there stats on how long before she turns on him? Would love to hear any happy endings to those with similar stories. I need some hope to cling to.   

***PS) I would never claim to be the perfect parent, but know in my head and heart I did everything to the best of my ability 100% of the time. My failings would likely be described as being there for my kids too much, not letting them fail on their own, and not requiring more of them around the house. My kids were never abused, neglected, or even once witnessed my husband and I in an argument. We were a loving, happy family that enjoyed each other and I want that back if possible.***

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

 Estrangement with Son is coming up to the one year anniversary. I'm so worried about him. He's an adult so I have accepted the boundaries he's set forth.

Sorry this is happening. How long have they been dating? Does your son live with her? Have you met her?

Unfortunately you seem to think she's poisoning your son against you. But he needs to draw his own conclusions, whether you agree or not. 

If your son wants to break free and try things out for himself, there's not much you can do no matter how much you disapprove or who you blame for that. If he's making mistakes, he'll realize it sooner or later.

The more you try to poison him against his GF, the more you'll push him right into hers arms, so be neutral.

Keep the lines of communication open with your son, but delete and block this GF from ALL your social media and messaging apps. Getting in a war with her or her people will only fuel the fire. 

There's no need to be defensive about your parenting. You can't micromanage his love life. Either he reconciles with you or he doesn't. Your neutrality in this matter will help determine that.

[Batya33]

I'm really sorry and how worrying! If you are in contact with her people perhaps there is a way they'd be willing to share information if something harmful is going on -beyond just she's not a nice person.  Do you send him $ or does he ask for $?

[boltnrun]

My brother and his first wife were estranged from our mother and I for about 2-3 years. We just had to stay away, respect his request for us to leave them alone and be patient. What ended up bringing us back together was my upcoming wedding. We finally got together and talked. He was more willing to reconcile than his wife was as she was still angry, but we did work it all out. At the end, we all had a great relationship.

So all I can advise is to let your son know you love him and you will respect his wishes. And that if he ever wants to see you, you are available. Hopefully things will settle down soon.

And I second Wiseman's recommendation. Do NOT bad talk your son's girlfriend, not even to her family members who talk bad about her. They will absolutely tell her everything you say about her, so just don't go there. 

I hope it all works out soon.

[Seraphim]

Do not engage in any drama. I know you must be so worried for your son. Eventually, he will come to see this is all lies but HE must come to that conclusion on his own. You will come out of this better if you stay out of the drama and offer support and love when he comes to you. 

[Mamma_Mia70]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. How long have they been dating? Does your son live with her? Have you met her?

Unfortunately you seem to think she's poisoning your son against you. But he needs to draw his own conclusions, whether you agree or not. 

If your son wants to break free and try things out for himself, there's not much you can do no matter how much you disapprove or who you blame for that. If he's making mistakes, he'll realize it sooner or later.

The more you try to poison him against his GF, the more you'll push him right into hers arms, so be neutral.

Keep the lines of communication open with your son, but delete and block this GF from ALL your social media and messaging apps. Getting in a war with her or her people will only fuel the fire. 

There's no need to be defensive about your parenting. You can't micromanage his love life. Either he reconciles with you or he doesn't. Your neutrality in this matter will help determine that.

Yes, I know her well. Dating 2 years. I don't say anything negative about her to anyone, so thanks for confirming my neutrality tactic as the best one. Appreciate the feedback. 

[Mamma_Mia70]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'm really sorry and how worrying! If you are in contact with her people perhaps there is a way they'd be willing to share information if something harmful is going on -beyond just she's not a nice person.  Do you send him $ or does he ask for $?

We pay his health and car insurance. He doesn't ask for anything additional. My husband toyed with the idea of pulling our financial support and I nixed it. We have always said we'd cover these expenses until age 26. To make a string attached to that seems retaliatory. I haven't really spoken with her family since everything first unravelled. 

[Mamma_Mia70]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

My brother and his first wife were estranged from our mother and I for about 2-3 years. We just had to stay away, respect his request for us to leave them alone and be patient. What ended up bringing us back together was my upcoming wedding. We finally got together and talked. He was more willing to reconcile than his wife was as she was still angry, but we did work it all out. At the end, we all had a great relationship.

So all I can advise is to let your son know you love him and you will respect his wishes. And that if he ever wants to see you, you are available. Hopefully things will settle down soon.

And I second Wiseman's recommendation. Do NOT bad talk your son's girlfriend, not even to her family members who talk bad about her. They will absolutely tell her everything you say about her, so just don't go there. 

I hope it all works out soon.

Thank you. Definitely haven't and won't speak I'll of her. 

[tattoobunnie]

12 minutes ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

We pay his health and car insurance. He doesn't ask for anything additional. My husband toyed with the idea of pulling our financial support and I nixed it. We have always said we'd cover these expenses until age 26. To make a string attached to that seems retaliatory. I haven't really spoken with her family since everything first unravelled. 

Stop paying his bills. He made his choice...let him eat his beliefs.  She can pay for them.  Kill her with kindness.  Don't fight it.  If you try to get others to fix it, it will drive him further away.  Hang back, and he will soon (well not soon) get tired of her BS.  But it will happen.

[Mamma_Mia70]

Thanks but I believe if we stop paying it plays into her narrative.  Having him on our health insurance doesn't cost us anything since it's a family plan rate. 

[tattoobunnie]

2 minutes ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

Thanks but I believe if we stop paying it plays into her narrative.  Having him on our health insurance doesn't cost us anything since it's a family plan rate. 

No it won't.  You are enabling his choices.  Stop thinking money will keep you connected, or sway opinion.  He needs to learn, actions have consequences.  Money hasn't gotten you out of this yet, and money won't get you through this now.  Paying them makes you look guilty.  Like you are buying his love because you are in the wrong.

If you can't see it that way...stop giving money to a drug addict.

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

Thanks but I believe if we stop paying it plays into her narrative.  Having him on our health insurance doesn't cost us anything since it's a family plan rate. 

I agree, do not retaliate against his girlfriend by removing him from your insurance plan. How would that be helpful?

I think simply standing back and letting things play out is your best bet.

[Mamma_Mia70]

10 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

No it won't.  You are enabling his choices.  Stop thinking money will keep you connected, or sway opinion.  He needs to learn, actions have consequences.  Money hasn't gotten you out of this yet, and money won't get you through this now.  Paying them makes you look guilty.  Like you are buying his love because you are in the wrong.

If you can't see it that way...stop giving money to a drug addict.

I will spend some time thinking about your advice. At the moment, I simply have a different take. Thanks again. 

[Lambert]

I'm so sorry this is happening. I would be torn on the paying his insurance. It's not a string to paying for him that he remain respectful to you. 

It's kind of rich and shows his maturity level. he won't speak, but he'll take the money. So in a lot of ways, he's still a child and this may all play out in your favor. With him regretting this and coming back in time... 

But I do see how ending the payments may play into the hands of the bad narrative. And push him away more. 

Maybe you could use it as a way to communicate with him- change insurance companies or something that requires some action on his part with you.  I think its easy to ignore a person, if you never see them.  but having to face them, accept their money and not soften would be hard to do.  

It would be an opportunity to say,  we love you and will never stop hoping you will talk to us to clear this up.  

Other than that, have you tried any ways of reaching out? recently? Do you have anyway of running into him? 

[Mamma_Mia70]

2 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I'm so sorry this is happening. I would be torn on the paying his insurance. It's not a string to paying for him that he remain respectful to you. 

It's kind of rich and shows his maturity level. he won't speak, but he'll take the money. So in a lot of ways, he's still a child and this may all play out in your favor. With him regretting this and coming back in time... 

But I do see how ending the payments may play into the hands of the bad narrative. And push him away more. 

Maybe you could use it as a way to communicate with him- change insurance companies or something that requires some action on his part with you.  I think its easy to ignore a person, if you never see them.  but having to face them, accept their money and not soften would be hard to do.  

It would be an opportunity to say,  we love you and will never stop hoping you will talk to us to clear this up.  

Other than that, have you tried any ways of reaching out? recently? Do you have anyway of running into him? 

We tried a few ways to reach out. He declines. The one rule we've put on him is that he must respond to us in a timely manner and he must be as cordial to us as he would a stranger - or we would cut off the support. At first, he was ignoring us and/or nasty toward us.

He's stated he wants no contact, so we only reach out when he gets a piece of mail that looks important. I always include messaging that says he's loved and missed and that we'd like to talk whenever he's ready. I won't purposely bump into him in public. I hope I don't accidentally bump into him either because I think I would burst into tears. 

[boltnrun]

My brother was estranged from one of his sons (ironic, isn't it?). He just waited for him to reach out even though it was agonizing. In fact, at some point he has been estranged from each of his children. But he had to wait for them to figure out he truly does love them and want the best for them.

One thing he did NOT do was punitively stop paying for their basic necessities.

[tattoobunnie]

3 hours ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

I will spend some time thinking about your advice. At the moment, I simply have a different take. Thanks again. 

My MIL tried holding gifts and promises of money and fortune over my hubs and my head...drove us even further away.  Using bribes and him building resentment over that is not a learning or teachable moment for him or you.  You also tell him you treat him like a child who cannot be responsible for himself or his choices when you pay his way.   The #1 way to not come off as the overbearing parent is by stepping back, even if it's important mail.  It's called mail forwarding.  All full-time jobs in the US offer medical insurance.  You want him to grow from this experience and find his way, let him learn what fundamental bills are.  He has the choice to come home.  

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

We tried a few ways to reach out. He declines. The one rule we've put on him is that he must respond to us in a timely manner and he must be as cordial to us as he would a stranger - or we would cut off the support. At first, he was ignoring us and/or nasty toward us.

It may seem far fetched, but is it possible he's gotten involved with drugs and this is his attraction to this type of girl? His turnabout in behavior and values seems more complicated than just choosing a wild/crazy girl for fun.

[Lambert]

3 hours ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

We tried a few ways to reach out. He declines. The one rule we've put on him is that he must respond to us in a timely manner and he must be as cordial to us as he would a stranger - or we would cut off the support. At first, he was ignoring us and/or nasty toward us.

He's stated he wants no contact, so we only reach out when he gets a piece of mail that looks important. I always include messaging that says he's loved and missed and that we'd like to talk whenever he's ready. I won't purposely bump into him in public. I hope I don't accidentally bump into him either because I think I would burst into tears. 

He is breaking his end of the agreement then.  I would seriously reconsider ending the payments. It's part of life, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. 

It's completely unreasonable for him to expect you to keep paying. And not in keeping with your description of him. whatsoever.  he is acting rather spoiled and entitled. 

I am twice your son's age, but I could not imagine at any age turning away from my parents. Arguments ok. They do happen, but something is off here... his behavior is unreasonable and ridiculously out of line.

I would give him notice and let him know.  yes, as part of your agreement you paid for these things, but if he doesn't want any the of relationship, then you are very sorry.  But this is 60 days notice of end of the arrangement. That his decision has forced you to do this and should he decide to be part of the family again, he will be included in the family plan.  Express again sadness and hopefulness that this could be resolved if he is willing to talk. 

I'm so sorry for his behavior. He (frankly) should be ashamed of himself acting this way and manipulating you.  You're no good as a parent, but here mom cover these bills... its a nightmare. 

[boltnrun]

My brother wasn't on drugs when he chose to go along with his wife in removing our mother and I from their lives. He was just completely enthralled with her. He's the type that falls hard and fast and becomes completely enmeshed with whoever he's involved in a romantic relationship with. I learned I needed to walk very carefully with his second wife because I knew he's capable of cutting me off if his wife tells him to. He eventually learned on his own how negative an influence these women were on him. Which is why he's twice divorced, sadly.

It's actually very common for parents to keep their adult children on their company medical plan until they age out (usually at 24, I believe). It usually doesn't cost much more to pay for a family plan than it does for an individual or a couple. If it were anything other than medical coverage (such as rent, car payment or money for leisure activities) I would say yeah, cut it off. But medical coverage is a different thing IMO.

I hope things are resolved for you soon. 

[Mamma_Mia70]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It may seem far fetched, but is it possible he's gotten involved with drugs and this is his attraction to this type of girl? His turnabout in behavior and values seems more complicated than just choosing a wild/crazy girl for fun.

I've worried over that possibility too but have no evidence of it. 

[Mamma_Mia70]

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

My brother wasn't on drugs when he chose to go along with his wife in removing our mother and I from their lives. He was just completely enthralled with her. He's the type that falls hard and fast and becomes completely enmeshed with whoever he's involved in a romantic relationship with. I learned I needed to walk very carefully with his second wife because I knew he's capable of cutting me off if his wife tells him to. He eventually learned on his own how negative an influence these women were on him. Which is why he's twice divorced, sadly.

It's actually very common for parents to keep their adult children on their company medical plan until they age out (usually at 24, I believe). It usually doesn't cost much more to pay for a family plan than it does for an individual or a couple. If it were anything other than medical coverage (such as rent, car payment or money for leisure activities) I would say yeah, cut it off. But medical coverage is a different thing IMO.

I hope things are resolved for you soon. 

Falls hard/falls fast sounds like my kid - thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience here

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Mamma_Mia70 said:

Having him on our health insurance doesn't cost us anything since it's a family plan rate. 

Agree that coersion to try to sever them won't work. And as you mentioned, insurance family plans are cheaper for everyone.

He does have a history of anxiety and depression so there's that. Sometimes people who feel flawed feel better around other such people. 

It would be nice to think it's a passing fancy, but either way there's still a rift with you that has nothing to do with her. 

Sometimes people with untreated or undertreated mental health issues self medicate. It's definitely possible.

But...he's not around enough to know. Did his pulling away from home coincide with meeting her? Were there objections to dating her or him moving out on his own?

Where does he live? With her? Her parents? How are they supporting themselves?

[Mamma_Mia70]

15 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree that coersion to try to sever them won't work. And as you mentioned, insurance family plans are cheaper for everyone.

He does have a history of anxiety and depression so there's that. Sometimes people who feel flawed feel better around other such people. 

It would be nice to think it's a passing fancy, but either way there's still a rift with you that has nothing to do with her. 

Sometimes people with untreated or undertreated mental health issues self medicate. It's definitely possible.

But...he's not around enough to know. Did his pulling away from home coincide with meeting her? Were there objections to dating her or him moving out on his own?

Where does he live? With her? Her parents? How are they supporting themselves?

They now live together and have jobs. It's a long story but after several months of supporting them (emotionally and financially), we gave Son 6 months notice to start saving up so he could move out and support himself. Her nastiness towards me started after notice was given. 

I think the best I can do is keep a journal to help remember things along the way (including my feelings, not just a log of events) and hope it's helpful to us when/if he comes back. There may never be a familial "post-mortem" of this whole episode - but should he want to discect things -  I want to remember properly. Until then, I wait and hope he's ok.

I'm all for this being a learning experience for him, just don't want him to end up totally wrecked by her. She has borderline personality disorder. People with borderline personality disorder often have difficulty tolerating being alone and may resort to self-destructive actions to cope with or to avoid being alone. They may make frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, including creating crises. (Source: Merck Manual) She had childhood trauma. The tactics she used to survive that environment are what she's using now to survive crises that she imagines/creates. I think it's the only way she feels normal. I do feel for her. Not to the extent I used to. 

[Mamma_Mia70]

On 11/7/2022 at 2:36 PM, tattoobunnie said:

My MIL tried holding gifts and promises of money and fortune over my hubs and my head...drove us even further away.  Using bribes and him building resentment over that is not a learning or teachable moment for him or you.  You also tell him you treat him like a child who cannot be responsible for himself or his choices when you pay his way.   The #1 way to not come off as the overbearing parent is by stepping back, even if it's important mail.  It's called mail forwarding.  All full-time jobs in the US offer medical insurance.  You want him to grow from this experience and find his way, let him learn what fundamental bills are.  He has the choice to come home.  

Thanks. I'm ok with the occasional piece of mail coming in as it gives me an excuse to break the "no contact" boundary he set up. We take a pic of the mail, text it and ask if important. Then we close with love and miss you, willing to talk whenever you are ready. Depending on how long this goes who how badly she screws with his brain, he needs to hear more than once that he's wanted here.