30 And Never Had A Girlfriend, Too Ugly?

[Batya33]

Just now, mylolita said:

I totally agree with Bolt regarding throwing Tinder in the bin.

 

Seems like a cruel way to break down peoples self esteem.
 

x

Yes -I never used it but I also had no issue with and accepted that men declined to contact me if they saw my photos and made a split second decision I wasn't pretty enough and didn't read the profile.  I also refused to send more photos which certain men requested -some because they'd been misled by women posting misleading photos as I was by men who did the same (I only cared if it was drastically different as it was in one case and in a really unfair way). 

Back then you had to take photos with a camera and upload.  I had four photos and two were more recent than the others.  I think there was one that was almost full body and I supplied my height and weight. My weight did not fluctuate in any relevant way (I mean maybe 2 pounds which is not noticeable to anyone).  

I never had anyone contact me and insult my physical features and I never, ever did that to anyone -it would never occur to me to be that rude.  

I did look at photos. My standards were if I was repulsed by the photos -which might be looks but also might be choice of clothing, what or who else was in the photo, etc - I moved on.  If I wasn't sure and I liked the profile and wanted to meet after the phone call I did.  

[Batya33]

38 minutes ago, mylolita said:

agree with most people that the right woman will come along if you keep attending events, putting yourself out there and the main thing - asking women out! It’s a numbers game, sure thing. You are more likely to get a yes if you ask 10 women out in a week than if you ask 1 woman out in a month. You just never know as well - never rule a woman out because you think she might not be interested or “out of your league” because you really never know!

 

What helped me the most in my search for a husband was to remind myself there were zero guarantees I would find the right person for me. I've known several men and women throughout my life who are great people, did and do all the right things, wanted marriage and family and are now in their 50s and never met the right person - I've heard of people in this situation as well from people who know them well.  I never felt I was entitled to meet the right person.  But I knew I'd put my all into putting myself out there.

[mylolita]

14 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

What helped me the most in my search for a husband was to remind myself there were zero guarantees I would find the right person for me. I've known several men and women throughout my life who are great people, did and do all the right things, wanted marriage and family and are now in their 50s and never met the right person - I've heard of people in this situation as well from people who know them well.  I never felt I was entitled to meet the right person.  But I knew I'd put my all into putting myself out there.

Why of course! Nothing in life is guaranteed, unfortunately.

 

You can be 16, marry your childhood sweetheart and love them till the day you depart or be 90 and never kissed. 
 

I think most people find someone if they look and make the effort and of course, ask people out on dates. 
 

90% of the population is average looking, and the majority of them have been in relationships or marriages. 
 

It’s, I think we can establish, not all a looks thing. People tend to look at “the whole package” when it comes to a person, especially when they want a long term relationship. 
 

x
 

 

[Tinydance]

2014 was actually like 9 years ago! If you only used online dating back then, it's been a very long time since you've actually done any online dating. Also Tinder is a hookup app. There are a lot of people there looking for sex and yes women get a lot of messages. If they just want hookup then it does actually make sense why they only swipe on cute guys because it's purely physical. When I was very briefly on there I realised nobody even filled out their profile. Whereas on more serious apps where women want a relationship, they're less likely to only care about photos.

I think we were just asking you those questions because we don't know you. You'd be surprised what people write on these forums about how they can't find a relationship but then it actually turned out they weren't even really trying.

Keep in mind we aren't your friends so asking questions like: "Do you ask women out"? and "Do you try to meet people?" is simply trying to get more information.

I don't think you're being that sarcastic or anything but you kind of seem resistant to most of the advice you're getting. You seemed happy when boltandrun validated that you "can't get women". What are you actually looking for? Just empathy or actual advice and suggestions for things you can do?

I also think that just because you've already tried certain things doesn't mean you can't try them again. I was surprised when you kept talking about Tinder but then revealed you used it in 2014. That was like close to a decade ago!

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, mylolita said:

Why of course! Nothing in life is guaranteed, unfortunately.

 

You can be 16, marry your childhood sweetheart and love them till the day you depart or be 90 and never kissed. 
 

I think most people find someone if they look and make the effort and of course, ask people out on dates. 
 

90% of the population is average looking, and the majority of them have been in relationships or marriages. 
 

It’s, I think we can establish, not all a looks thing. People tend to look at “the whole package” when it comes to a person, especially when they want a long term relationship. 
 

x
 

 

Looks and chemistry are two different things and often with some overlap.   As I and many others have written here I've met and dated extremely handsome men -objectively drop dead gorgeous - and had no chemistry and dated men who were not and had chemistry through the roof.  I know of women who think they're "safe" from being cheated on if they settle for a man that looks "nerdy" or simply not what most find attractive looking features - and settle meaning they're not that into the guy but he's a great provider. 

Um, wrooooonnnggg.  If a man carries himself with confidence and is charming in a genuine way, and has a good sense of humor - he will attract women and certain women will want him even more when they see the wedding ring (no, not me, not ever) -whether or not his physical features are conventionally attractive.    

[boltnrun]

18 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

You seemed happy when boltandrun validated that you "can't get women".

I don't believe I "validated" the OP can't get women. That was the conclusion HE drew based on my comments. I said there's real life evidence that so called "ugly" people also have love relationships and marriages and I asked him if he could give feedback on why he thought that was. I actually don't believe the OP "can't get women". I think that would be a pretty heartless thing to tell someone.

[Tinydance]

46 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I don't believe I "validated" the OP can't get women. That was the conclusion HE drew based on my comments. I said there's real life evidence that so called "ugly" people also have love relationships and marriages and I asked him if he could give feedback on why he thought that was. I actually don't believe the OP "can't get women". I think that would be a pretty heartless thing to tell someone.

Well that's right, there are many plain and unattractive people who still find someone. I don't believe that many people are truly ugly though. I actually remember there was a guy posting here who thought he couldn't get girls because of his looks. Then he actually posted a photo of himself on here and he looked perfectly fine! 

I think sometimes people take rejection very personally and think it's because they're unattractive or they did something wrong. Usually I don't think that's the case and the main reasons are just that someone doesn't feel that click or spark. Or they find something incompatible but that's just their personal preference.

[mylolita]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Looks and chemistry are two different things and often with some overlap.   As I and many others have written here I've met and dated extremely handsome men -objectively drop dead gorgeous - and had no chemistry and dated men who were not and had chemistry through the roof.  I know of women who think they're "safe" from being cheated on if they settle for a man that looks "nerdy" or simply not what most find attractive looking features - and settle meaning they're not that into the guy but he's a great provider. 

Um, wrooooonnnggg.  If a man carries himself with confidence and is charming in a genuine way, and has a good sense of humor - he will attract women and certain women will want him even more when they see the wedding ring (no, not me, not ever) -whether or not his physical features are conventionally attractive.    

Hey Batya,

 

I’m not sure why you are directing dating and attraction and relationship advice at me! Maybe this is for the OP?

 

I got mine right first time with luck! I could do with advice in many other areas, but dating and attraction I think for once, I have down 🥲 

 

Sorry if I offended you regarding the driving - personally, I find it a big plus that a man can drive and own and run his own car, but that’s my personal opinion. I do see it as another string to the bow of independence too. Other people get by not driving, other women don’t see it as an issue, that’s all good! I think it would help Mysterious, especially once you get into the dating and relationships stage. 
 

You can do a fast learn intense drivers course in a week for £250 done and dusted! 
 

x

[mylolita]

7 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well that's right, there are many plain and unattractive people who still find someone. I don't believe that many people are truly ugly though. I actually remember there was a guy posting here who thought he couldn't get girls because of his looks. Then he actually posted a photo of himself on here and he looked perfectly fine! 

I think sometimes people take rejection very personally and think it's because they're unattractive or they did something wrong. Usually I don't think that's the case and the main reasons are just that someone doesn't feel that click or spark. Or they find something incompatible but that's just their personal preference.

Tiny I think you are right!

 

I also think maybe if someone is potentially building themselves up to ask a girl out and only asks one girl every few months, of course the likelihood is rejection, and it will feel much worse if this was the only one he asked for along time! 
 

I think you just have to get out there and ask whoever you want! It’s so hard to not get caught up in your own head or start looking for external reasons why people don’t say yes! 
 

You have perfectly great people with things going for them and decent looks who seem very hard on themselves and that’s a real shame!

 

As you also say it’s very hard to gauge exactly what is happening over a screen!

 

I may be totally off here, but I think modern culture tends to cultivate a certain seriousness at the moment - culturally, people take things very seriously, myself included. Some of us find it hard to step back and shrug things off and look at the big picture and not get caught up in day to day struggles or emotions. This mentality trends in dating as well. It’s a big business now like never before! I mean in the 80s and 50s what did people do? Go to dances, speed date. Hiring a match maker and paying them was rare, dating coaches? I don’t think my parents had ever heard of a dating coach in their lives! Now we have big business apps, a virtual judgement line, and a whole book buying kindle psychology behind it and big shifts in women’s movements that leave men wondering what they do next as well - I often wonder how my Grandad would have fared in todays environment, chasing my Grandma over a period of months, riding his motorcycle across the country every weekend to knock on her door and ask her out? Would that be acceptable or frowned upon now? 
 

I often wonder! Dating to me, being out of the game for 15 years and only in it once anyway, looks much harder now than it ever was. Or more complicated, at the very least! 

 

PS I hope your pregnancy is going smoothly! 😘

 

x

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 you kind of seem resistant to most of the advice you're getting. 

Agree. None of the sound advice or tips or suggestions was met with anything but snark. Except the confirmation bias that he's looking for which is "I'm ugly and can't get dates, I don't need to drive, try other things, etc."

[MysteriousTelephone]

14 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Now one knows what you were doing 8 years ago. Just that you use tinder now and feel that you're not having any luck.

Apologies for the confusion: 2014 was when I started online dating, prior to that (17-22) I didn't really think I needed it, but at 22 and never had any interest it seemed like a plan. I've been using dating sites ever since, not as my primary means of meeting people, just a side thing. Granted, I didn't really check it for 18 months when Covid Lockdowns were a thing, but life has been opened up to normal for over a year now.

Over the years the photos have been updated etc, every now and then one of my friends would want to pick the photos and write the bio themselves claiming they can 'fix' it.

13 hours ago, mylolita said:

I agree with most people that the right woman will come along if you keep attending events, putting yourself out there and the main thing - asking women out! It’s a numbers game, sure thing. You are more likely to get a yes if you ask 10 women out in a week than if you ask 1 woman out in a month. You just never know as well - never rule a woman out because you think she might not be interested or “out of your league” because you really never know!

 

Of course, having a license, a car, owning a home, having a decently paid profession - this all adds to your chances of finding someone easier. It would be unrealistic to say it wouldn’t. It will definitely help if you want to attract a long term partner, or future wife. 
 

Of course we hear you when you say you are not getting past hi - but I find that hard to believe every single time? They won’t entertain any kind of flirting or conversation? Just turn you straight away? 
 

I can only think maybe you hardly ask women out much, therefore rejection is much more likely, or that you maybe misinterpret women’s reactions as no interest but really they might be but they want more conversation, are maybe shy themselves or want to hear more from you? 
 

People find love all the time later in life - people can get married at 70! We all know this. I guess, we can only go off what we read and make suggestions we think might help.

 

The likelihood is, you will find someone OP, and you will look back and wonder why you ever spent time thinking about the whys and how’s! 
 

I mentioned this thread to my husband. If you want another man’s perspective who has never had trouble in this department, I thought it was curious what he said. He told me, “Tell him to get used to rejection. That’s what being a guy is about. And just ask ask ask away. The more women you ask, the more likely you are to get a date. He also said go for who you like - even if you think they might be “too good” for you. He said you might be surprised.”

 

x
 

 

I do appreciate the time you've taken to write these things, I just think we're coming at this from different life experiences: your husband is a hot guy, so his advice of "just keep asking people out, and everything will work out" may definitely have been true for him, but that's just not my experience. Nobody's 'wrong'. It's a bit like if someone's having an asthma attack, and I say "Don't be silly, there's loads of air here, I can breathe just fine!", it's technically true, but does nothing to solve the situation.

So while you may think I'm not out there socially, not asking people out, or not talking to someone because I perceive them to be out of my league, but all I can tell you is that it's not true. I do realise you don't know me and are just asking questions, but all I can do is try to show you that I am doing all I can on that front, I'm not just sitting alone wondering why a woman doesn't fall through the roof and appear in front of me.

Sure, I do agree that home ownership, driving and employed are absolute positives in the dating scene, but as I frequently mention, I get turned away before any of those questions were ever asked. Even in my teens and early 20s, where nobody drove or owned a home, I was still not seen as a catch. Even when I was 18 and renting, when most lived with their parents, it was not a positive 'boon' for me. For someone born in the 90s, owning a home on a single income, in this economy, without help from parents, it's very difficult. And it brings no guarantees: supposing I work really hard, get promoted, take all the overtime I can, save my money, to get a deposit for a house, pay twice more than I do per month currently, and for my efforts.... instead of being ugly and unwanted renting in 1 bedroom, I get to be ugly and unwanted but with a lovely kitchen backsplash?

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

2014 was actually like 9 years ago! If you only used online dating back then, it's been a very long time since you've actually done any online dating. Also Tinder is a hookup app. There are a lot of people there looking for sex and yes women get a lot of messages. If they just want hookup then it does actually make sense why they only swipe on cute guys because it's purely physical. When I was very briefly on there I realised nobody even filled out their profile. Whereas on more serious apps where women want a relationship, they're less likely to only care about photos.

I think we were just asking you those questions because we don't know you. You'd be surprised what people write on these forums about how they can't find a relationship but then it actually turned out they weren't even really trying.

Keep in mind we aren't your friends so asking questions like: "Do you ask women out"? and "Do you try to meet people?" is simply trying to get more information.

I don't think you're being that sarcastic or anything but you kind of seem resistant to most of the advice you're getting. You seemed happy when boltandrun validated that you "can't get women". What are you actually looking for? Just empathy or actual advice and suggestions for things you can do?

I also think that just because you've already tried certain things doesn't mean you can't try them again. I was surprised when you kept talking about Tinder but then revealed you used it in 2014. That was like close to a decade ago!

Yes, have been using online dating sites since 2014, with zero matches. Okay, I have to take 18 months off for Covid, but you get the idea. I'm very selective in photos that I use, try to show a range of interests, all that jazz. I've been through them all: OKcupid, Bumble, Match, PlentyOfFish, it's have been of no use. I mean, I've never been against the concept of a hookup, so long as nobody's being deceived and everyone's consenting. It's not something I'm looking for, but at a certain point I feel there would be some validation in being seen as attractive.

I do understand that you're just trying to get information, but I really thought I'd addressed all of this several times now, and yet I still get people coming in with "Hmm, maybe you should try talking to them?", and as much as I appreciate they're trying to be helpful, from this side it feels like they never read my initial post.

Sure, I did appreciate BoltAndRun's reply, because at the moment they seem to be the only one that seems to be believing the words that I'm saying. When I'm saying that women find me unattractive from a distance, knowing nothing about me, and people on this forum respond with "Well obviously it's because you don't drive!", there seems a real disconnect between the things I'm saying and the responses I'm getting. I guess my reason being here is to be believed, because this is my experience, and for the most part it's feeling like people don't. And I get it, they've lived lives that they have had relationships since they were 18, they don't believe that I can't, all I'm trying to do is get my side out there.

[Wiseman2]

46 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

women find me unattractive from a distance, knowing nothing about me, my side out there.

Unfortunately this is your fixed stance and anything other than that will illicit an argument as if suggesting getting a license will somehow make your life worse and won't help your confidence.  

So with a fixed stance how is looking for tips or advice worthwhile? Or is it just a discussion on the typical manoshere rhetoric about how only rich handsome men have any chance at dating?

It's unclear how you can read minds from across the room and know for a fact what these random women think.

I personally don't think anecdotal stories about "ugly" guys living happily ever after is going to make a difference since you are completely against doing anything differently and keep reiterating your dating experiences from a decade ago as if in the present.

[Tinydance]

3 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

Apologies for the confusion: 2014 was when I started online dating, prior to that (17-22) I didn't really think I needed it, but at 22 and never had any interest it seemed like a plan. I've been using dating sites ever since, not as my primary means of meeting people, just a side thing. Granted, I didn't really check it for 18 months when Covid Lockdowns were a thing, but life has been opened up to normal for over a year now.

Over the years the photos have been updated etc, every now and then one of my friends would want to pick the photos and write the bio themselves claiming they can 'fix' it.

I do appreciate the time you've taken to write these things, I just think we're coming at this from different life experiences: your husband is a hot guy, so his advice of "just keep asking people out, and everything will work out" may definitely have been true for him, but that's just not my experience. Nobody's 'wrong'. It's a bit like if someone's having an asthma attack, and I say "Don't be silly, there's loads of air here, I can breathe just fine!", it's technically true, but does nothing to solve the situation.

So while you may think I'm not out there socially, not asking people out, or not talking to someone because I perceive them to be out of my league, but all I can tell you is that it's not true. I do realise you don't know me and are just asking questions, but all I can do is try to show you that I am doing all I can on that front, I'm not just sitting alone wondering why a woman doesn't fall through the roof and appear in front of me.

Sure, I do agree that home ownership, driving and employed are absolute positives in the dating scene, but as I frequently mention, I get turned away before any of those questions were ever asked. Even in my teens and early 20s, where nobody drove or owned a home, I was still not seen as a catch. Even when I was 18 and renting, when most lived with their parents, it was not a positive 'boon' for me. For someone born in the 90s, owning a home on a single income, in this economy, without help from parents, it's very difficult. And it brings no guarantees: supposing I work really hard, get promoted, take all the overtime I can, save my money, to get a deposit for a house, pay twice more than I do per month currently, and for my efforts.... instead of being ugly and unwanted renting in 1 bedroom, I get to be ugly and unwanted but with a lovely kitchen backsplash?

Yes, have been using online dating sites since 2014, with zero matches. Okay, I have to take 18 months off for Covid, but you get the idea. I'm very selective in photos that I use, try to show a range of interests, all that jazz. I've been through them all: OKcupid, Bumble, Match, PlentyOfFish, it's have been of no use. I mean, I've never been against the concept of a hookup, so long as nobody's being deceived and everyone's consenting. It's not something I'm looking for, but at a certain point I feel there would be some validation in being seen as attractive.

I do understand that you're just trying to get information, but I really thought I'd addressed all of this several times now, and yet I still get people coming in with "Hmm, maybe you should try talking to them?", and as much as I appreciate they're trying to be helpful, from this side it feels like they never read my initial post.

Sure, I did appreciate BoltAndRun's reply, because at the moment they seem to be the only one that seems to be believing the words that I'm saying. When I'm saying that women find me unattractive from a distance, knowing nothing about me, and people on this forum respond with "Well obviously it's because you don't drive!", there seems a real disconnect between the things I'm saying and the responses I'm getting. I guess my reason being here is to be believed, because this is my experience, and for the most part it's feeling like people don't. And I get it, they've lived lives that they have had relationships since they were 18, they don't believe that I can't, all I'm trying to do is get my side out there.

Well I want to validate how you feel, I do, but I just generally don't have that attitude in life that you just need to give up because you've been dealt something unpleasant. All my responses have been trying to give you very specific types of advice that you could actually try and CAN be successful. I also personally said that I don't mind if someone doesn't drive so I was on your side with that one.

I understand you've already done a lot of these things and so far they haven't worked. But the thing is the difference between actually doing something and doing nothing is well, pretty obvious. When you do nothing your chances are actually zero. When you do something your chances are above zero. I think you just need to accept that yes maybe you have to work harder at dating that some people, but keep persisting.

Things don't just come easily to everyone. There is a small minority of hot people but the rest of us need to face rejection and put a lot more effort in.

Even in my case, I'm pretty but I've always been a bigger woman. I try to watch what I eat all the time. I only drink water and black coffee and plain tea. I hardly eat any junk food. Yet I'm still bigger. But I have friends who eat whatever they want and they're very slim. I mean, that's not fair yeah? I've had to accept from childhood that I'm not a thin girl. In fact when I was a little girl I wanted to be a ballerina. I then realised it just wasn't an option because of my size and I accepted that.

If you can't think of anything else you can do differently then that's OK.. Continue doing what you're doing and one day it can pay off. If you just give up you definitely won't find anyone. So I mean, what options do you really have apart from keep trying or give up? 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

So I mean, what options do you really have apart from keep trying or give up? 

I agree. It all boils down to this.

You can keep doing what you've been doing. You can try to mix it up by going to events and joining new groups (Coed softball or bowling? Cooking class? Yoga? Animal shelter volunteer?) Or you can throw up your hands, give up and decide you'll be single forever.

Any of those choices are valid and each has its own pros and cons.

All I can say is I see with my own eyes "ugly" doesn't mean single and lonely forever. It's just not true. But you have your own truth, don't you?

[Carnatic]

20 hours ago, mylolita said:

I totally agree with Bolt regarding throwing Tinder in the bin.

 

Seems like a cruel way to break down peoples self esteem.
 

x

I'm with you on how awful Tinder is. Even 'better' dating apps like Hinge and Bumble that are supposely less about just hooking ups are swiping apps all the same. They all encourage people to make a snap decision on someone based on what they look like.

I can't really remember what dating was like before those apps all appeared and I imagine there's always been on some level the idea that being physically attracted to someone is the initial hurdle that then makes you consider if you like their personality and other things. Tinder and such are pretty absolute with that though, it's like if you entered a bar, took a look around then just anyone you didn't find attractive, you could make invisible so they're no longer even noticed, you never get to hear them laugh, see how they carry themselves, their sense of style or those things that sit between personality and appearance that can make you find someone more physically attractive over time, even if they didn't totally grab you when you first laid eyes on them.

I did go speed-dating once though, in the days before Tinder was a thing. Plan to give that another go.

[SherrySher]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:12 PM, MysteriousTelephone said:

Sorry bud, I haven't really had time yet, but do fully intend to! It sounds interesting.

Again, I really can't answer for how every other male on Planet Earth, including boil covered dwarves and toothless smack addicts, can find themselves partners and I am unable to. Really, you've stumped me, I have no answer for that. All I can do is answer from the experiences I have, in which looks seems to be a definite roadblock. Other than hitting up a social club for the visually impaired, I'm sort of running out of ideas.

Have I answered your question to your satisfaction?

I mean, why? She wasn't saying it to me, I can't have her for her opinions. We're not especially close friends, but through good friends we've had enough interactions throughout the years. It does serve as a good example that while everyone can be all "Oh don't worry, there's nothing wrong with you!" when asked directly, you never know what's said once you leave the room.

Hey there! As I laid out in my initial post; I'm renting, been fully employed since I was 18. I've had to re-train over Covid, I'm now on the path to a degree in mechanical engineering. I do not drive.

Thing is, none of those things are remotely obvious. So when I'm in a bar or social situation, even before asking me any of those things, I get shut down. I could be a doctor with a big home and a 12" dong, and they'd never know it.

I would err on the side of caution with the not taking "no" for an answer. I'm aware it's worked for some people, but honestly just hounding a woman who's got no interest in me just sounds like repeatedly hitting my head against the same closed door in hope that I break it down. Having seen the other side of it: a good female friend of mine has a regular group of guys that will message her daily, in hope that she'll go out with them, it just comes off as desperate. I'm not against flirting, and I do think I have a good sense of humour.

I have over the years asked friends to set me up, female friends love to play matchmaker, however when they ask their single friends, so far they have said 'no' before even meeting me.

As for a wider net, I mean, I live in a big city with thousands, I really didn't think I had to move beyond that to find someone who thinks I'm vaguely ok. That's not to say I'm against a commute, just seems much harder to wrangle.

No, she was there with her partner.

I'm absolutely not expecting women to hit on me, don't worry. I would say of my close friends, about half are women. I've been to events they have hosted and met their friends, that's no problem. To be fair, a lot of the time their friends are partnered up, that's nobody's fault. A few times I've asked if they could set me up with someone, and to their credit they have tried; the last time was a couple of years ago she had a friend that was looking to date and didn't know me, she had showed a semi interest when my friend described me, but lost interest once she showed her photos. You ask why I bring things back to my looks, I would say it seems to be the biggest hurdle.

Again, between my hobbies, meeting new women and getting to know them is not a problem, I've made some great friends that way, but that's all it's going to be.

I may have missed the answer to this, but have you asked out all kinds of women? Every shape, size, race..even every level of attractiveness?

I don't know if I seen this asked anywhere, but do you ask out women who are also what you consider is "average"?

I hate to say it, but lots of times men will ask women out that aren't compatible with them at all in many different areas, including looks.

I don't want looks to be the focus here, but there is some truth to the fact that people who are around the same level of attractiveness, will get together.

Are you possibly asking women out who don't match up with you and that's why you keep getting turned down?

[MysteriousTelephone]

20 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately this is your fixed stance and anything other than that will illicit an argument as if suggesting getting a license will somehow make your life worse and won't help your confidence.  

So with a fixed stance how is looking for tips or advice worthwhile? Or is it just a discussion on the typical manoshere rhetoric about how only rich handsome men have any chance at dating?

It's unclear how you can read minds from across the room and know for a fact what these random women think.

I personally don't think anecdotal stories about "ugly" guys living happily ever after is going to make a difference since you are completely against doing anything differently and keep reiterating your dating experiences from a decade ago as if in the present.

See, now who's coming up with snark?

Really though, pretty much all the examples I've listed have been from the past year, I only mentioned 2014 because you made the suggestion that on dating apps I use decent photos and write a bio, which is something I figured out in 2014, and have been doing ever since.

Again, I really don't understand why you're so fixed on the driving thing. I'm confident in myself and who I am, that's never been a problem, I can get about in my city without any issue, at this stage in my life I really cannot find a decent reason to pay out that amount of money for a car I would rarely use, in vague hope that the women who found me repulsive suddenly change their minds.

18 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well I want to validate how you feel, I do, but I just generally don't have that attitude in life that you just need to give up because you've been dealt something unpleasant. All my responses have been trying to give you very specific types of advice that you could actually try and CAN be successful. I also personally said that I don't mind if someone doesn't drive so I was on your side with that one.

I understand you've already done a lot of these things and so far they haven't worked. But the thing is the difference between actually doing something and doing nothing is well, pretty obvious. When you do nothing your chances are actually zero. When you do something your chances are above zero. I think you just need to accept that yes maybe you have to work harder at dating that some people, but keep persisting.

Things don't just come easily to everyone. There is a small minority of hot people but the rest of us need to face rejection and put a lot more effort in.

Even in my case, I'm pretty but I've always been a bigger woman. I try to watch what I eat all the time. I only drink water and black coffee and plain tea. I hardly eat any junk food. Yet I'm still bigger. But I have friends who eat whatever they want and they're very slim. I mean, that's not fair yeah? I've had to accept from childhood that I'm not a thin girl. In fact when I was a little girl I wanted to be a ballerina. I then realised it just wasn't an option because of my size and I accepted that.

If you can't think of anything else you can do differently then that's OK.. Continue doing what you're doing and one day it can pay off. If you just give up you definitely won't find anyone. So I mean, what options do you really have apart from keep trying or give up? 

I don't want to seem like I'm giving up, I guess, more that I've ran out of ideas. Like I said, statistically I feel like my situation just doesn't happen, I have yet to meet another person like it: I know people on this forum say some of their friends have had similar situations, but I've yet to actually talk to any. It really does just feel bizarre, like there's something obvious that I must have missed, when I feel I'm doing everything right, or at least the bare minimum as a human to get some sort of validation.

Sure, absolutely, everyone has their own struggles and lived experiences, I've always said that. You say that being 'bigger' has presented it's own share of challenges in life that you've had to overcome, and I have to take your word for it because it's something I've not experienced. The difference I'm seeing is that you are allowed to say that you are 'bigger' and that's okay, but if I say that I'm 'ugly', I get people screaming "No, you're definitely not! It's just a complete coincidence that you're 30 and never had a girlfriend, and get called ugly! They're just two separate things!" and I really don't understand it. Like you've said, you've seen how easy it is for a lot of people you know to maintain thinner physiques, and you're just not built that way, why am I not allowed to be ugly, and must be something else?

9 hours ago, SherrySher said:

I may have missed the answer to this, but have you asked out all kinds of women? Every shape, size, race..even every level of attractiveness?

I don't know if I seen this asked anywhere, but do you ask out women who are also what you consider is "average"?

I hate to say it, but lots of times men will ask women out that aren't compatible with them at all in many different areas, including looks.

I don't want looks to be the focus here, but there is some truth to the fact that people who are around the same level of attractiveness, will get together.

Are you possibly asking women out who don't match up with you and that's why you keep getting turned down?

I would say so. When I look at the women I've liked, there really hasn't been much of a 'thread' to them; short, tall, bigger, smaller, athletic, non-athletic. I would say I have liked a healthy amount of 'average' people.

I mean, if I'm talking to someone and we really have nothing in common, I'd have to chalk it up to a loss, but the issue I bring up is that so often on the dating scene, I'm rejected before it gets to that stage. We may very well be reading the same books, or love the same music, I may cook her favourite meal without knowing it, but unfortunately that's just something that doesn't get to be explored.

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

. It really does just feel bizarre, like there's something obvious that I must have missed, when I feel I'm doing everything right, 

Agree. As much as a group of people have offered a huge variety of help, suggestions, etc it doesn't seem to register except in  hostile condescension about "been/there done that, duh"

It is probably happening in real life where you complain and complain and get angry and frustrated with your own friends and family trying to address your woes.

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

See, now who's coming up with snark?

Really though, pretty much all the examples I've listed have been from the past year, I only mentioned 2014 because you made the suggestion that on dating apps I use decent photos and write a bio, which is something I figured out in 2014, and have been doing ever since.

Again, I really don't understand why you're so fixed on the driving thing. I'm confident in myself and who I am, that's never been a problem, I can get about in my city without any issue, at this stage in my life I really cannot find a decent reason to pay out that amount of money for a car I would rarely use, in vague hope that the women who found me repulsive suddenly change their minds.

I don't want to seem like I'm giving up, I guess, more that I've ran out of ideas. Like I said, statistically I feel like my situation just doesn't happen, I have yet to meet another person like it: I know people on this forum say some of their friends have had similar situations, but I've yet to actually talk to any. It really does just feel bizarre, like there's something obvious that I must have missed, when I feel I'm doing everything right, or at least the bare minimum as a human to get some sort of validation.

Sure, absolutely, everyone has their own struggles and lived experiences, I've always said that. You say that being 'bigger' has presented it's own share of challenges in life that you've had to overcome, and I have to take your word for it because it's something I've not experienced. The difference I'm seeing is that you are allowed to say that you are 'bigger' and that's okay, but if I say that I'm 'ugly', I get people screaming "No, you're definitely not! It's just a complete coincidence that you're 30 and never had a girlfriend, and get called ugly! They're just two separate things!" and I really don't understand it. Like you've said, you've seen how easy it is for a lot of people you know to maintain thinner physiques, and you're just not built that way, why am I not allowed to be ugly, and must be something else?

I would say so. When I look at the women I've liked, there really hasn't been much of a 'thread' to them; short, tall, bigger, smaller, athletic, non-athletic. I would say I have liked a healthy amount of 'average' people.

I mean, if I'm talking to someone and we really have nothing in common, I'd have to chalk it up to a loss, but the issue I bring up is that so often on the dating scene, I'm rejected before it gets to that stage. We may very well be reading the same books, or love the same music, I may cook her favourite meal without knowing it, but unfortunately that's just something that doesn't get to be explored.

Well who has actually said you are ugly? Like, how many people have said that? Yeah I think I can be allowed to say I'm a more plus size woman because that's just my actual size. But I am definitely not ugly. 

If let's say you are ugly, which part of your face do you think? Is there anything you could correct with any cosmetic procedures or plastic surgery?

BUT what I would hate to happen is for you to get any procedures done and then realise dating is still really hard. And come to the conclusion your face actually wasn't the problem! 

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. As much as a group of people have offered a huge variety of help, suggestions, etc it doesn't seem to register except in  hostile condescension about "been/there done that, duh"

It is probably happening in real life where you complain and complain and get angry and frustrated with your own friends and family trying to address your woes.

I believe a lot of suggestions are meant with good intentions, however having been at this for 12ish years, unfortunately they are a lot of things I've already done or attempted. That's nobody's fault, but suggesting I need to meet more people, dress nicer or exercise regularly, they're all solid advice for someone who hasn't done those things, but I have. The only things suggested that I haven't done are; giving up my hobbies to take on new ones in an attempt to meet women, or learn to drive and buy a car.

Frustrated? Sure. Angry? No. I have of course asked my friends and explained my situation: they know me, they know what I look like, how I dress, that I'm easy to talk to and social etc. They really don't believe the words I'm saying when I tell them how I'm treated, so it's very difficult to get an effective dialogue going. It would be like if a close friend of yours asked for help about their ghost problem: fundamentally you don't believe in ghosts, so there's not going to be a great conversation coming from your side if you won't accept the premise. These are pretty people who've never had problems finding partners, even when they were 15 and didn't drive, so they genuinely don't believe me. Yes, it is incredibly frustrating.

8 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well who has actually said you are ugly? Like, how many people have said that? Yeah I think I can be allowed to say I'm a more plus size woman because that's just my actual size. But I am definitely not ugly. 

If let's say you are ugly, which part of your face do you think? Is there anything you could correct with any cosmetic procedures or plastic surgery?

BUT what I would hate to happen is for you to get any procedures done and then realise dating is still really hard. And come to the conclusion your face actually wasn't the problem! 

 

It happens more than you'd think. Sometimes it's outright saying it, sometimes it's implied "he's alright from the neck down", sometimes people are very polite and try to dance around it.

Really, I can't point to a specific are that I would have surgically changed. I keep see 'facial symmetry' being touted as the most attractive feature but... I really see most faces as symmetrical. Maybe that's just me? Shy of a scar or disfigurement, I look at most people's faces and see them as symmetrical, so I'm really not sure where to go.

Absolutely, in an ideal world I would sit in a surgeon's chair, hand over my credit card and say "fix this", and wake up with a new face, seeing as that seems to be the major turnoff for people. That is, however, unrealistic no matter how much money you have, so I'm not going further down that line of thinking.

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I believe a lot of suggestions are meant with good intentions, however having been at this for 12ish years, unfortunately they are a lot of things I've already done or attempted. That's nobody's fault, but suggesting I need to meet more people, dress nicer or exercise regularly, they're all solid advice for someone who hasn't done those things, but I have. The only things suggested that I haven't done are; giving up my hobbies to take on new ones in an attempt to meet women, or learn to drive and buy a car.

Frustrated? Sure. Angry? No. I have of course asked my friends and explained my situation: they know me, they know what I look like, how I dress, that I'm easy to talk to and social etc. They really don't believe the words I'm saying when I tell them how I'm treated, so it's very difficult to get an effective dialogue going. It would be like if a close friend of yours asked for help about their ghost problem: fundamentally you don't believe in ghosts, so there's not going to be a great conversation coming from your side if you won't accept the premise. These are pretty people who've never had problems finding partners, even when they were 15 and didn't drive, so they genuinely don't believe me. Yes, it is incredibly frustrating.

It happens more than you'd think. Sometimes it's outright saying it, sometimes it's implied "he's alright from the neck down", sometimes people are very polite and try to dance around it.

Really, I can't point to a specific are that I would have surgically changed. I keep see 'facial symmetry' being touted as the most attractive feature but... I really see most faces as symmetrical. Maybe that's just me? Shy of a scar or disfigurement, I look at most people's faces and see them as symmetrical, so I'm really not sure where to go.

Absolutely, in an ideal world I would sit in a surgeon's chair, hand over my credit card and say "fix this", and wake up with a new face, seeing as that seems to be the major turnoff for people. That is, however, unrealistic no matter how much money you have, so I'm not going further down that line of thinking.

OK well you are not disfigured in any way which is definitely a plus! I'm actually not being patronising but some people really are disfigured. You probably also don't have anything wrong with your skin such as acne, since you never mentioned that. 

I'm not invalidating your experiences but dating really is very hard. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I mean, when I'm walking down the street or your average person, it's not like heads are being turned. I'm not sure why you have all these "pretty people" friends but most people are not necessarily pretty. 

Also I have had some people be jerks to me about my looks. Thankfully not that many. I do remember one guy from online dating, when I said I enjoy walking, looked me up and down and said: You don't LOOK like a walker". What he implied of course is that only slim people can like walking! Overweight people simply cannot like walking because didn't you know, they never move from the couch! Lol

Anyway you can't change your face so I think accepting it might be the next step. If there is technically nothing wrong with your face then I'm sure someone will like you one day. I mean you can't even really pinpoint what about you is "ugly" and neither could your friends. If they didn't believe you maybe it's because they don't actually think you're ugly?

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I believe a lot of suggestions are meant with good intentions, however having been at this for 12ish years, unfortunately they are a lot of things I've already done or attempted. That's nobody's fault, but suggesting I need to meet more people, dress nicer or exercise regularly, they're all solid advice for someone who hasn't done those things, but I have. The only things suggested that I haven't done are; giving up my hobbies to take on new ones in an attempt to meet women, or learn to drive and buy a car.

Did it for the better part of 24 years -most of the suggestions aren't the sort you "try" then stop because as time goes on doing those things very often have wildly different impacts.  Like my friend who was a ballerina and then would dance on and off for fun - years later married her salsa dancing instructor, the friend who kept playing tennis and that's how she met her husband, my decision to be out there meeting people constantly and looking for suitable activities wasn't something I tried with a finite end point to justify "see I tried it didn't work" - I kept on kept on - and all of those experiences helped me to become the right person to find the right person (despite no guarantees).

Yes some things you try and then move on - like I tried skiing once it wasn't for me -maybe I could have met someone like that.  Right now Pickleball is all the rage and I respect those who try it a few times because they want a better social life and then realize it's not for them.  I know now because of the pandemic I have to push myself to meet people in person and get out there again so I've gone on three group walks in the park that are every other Friday with parents from my son's school. 

After walk one a really cool person asked me to go on a walk with her one on one.  As in dating parlance it's obvious she wasn't "that into me". 

So do I tell myself "ok I tried the parent walks twice and they're not working for me because I didn't meet anyone yet I clicked with?  No.  I went a third time and I will do my best to go this Friday -honestly it's inconvenient for me and I don't really want to but I know I need to restart an in person social life so I will force myself. 

If I said "I tried parent walks and they didn't work" that would be silly -different people might come and my overall goal remains the same. Now if I went and people were nasty to me or if I went and no one showed up that would be a good reason to stop. 

But please stop dismissing broad suggestions that are tried and true with "tried it/didn't work." 12 years is a long time. I get it. So was 24.  For me it was worth it because I wanted marriage and family.  Had I not it wouldn't have been worth it. 

It's ok to say "I'm happy on my own therefore all this time and effort isn't worth it" or "I'm not going to do all this because all I really want out of it is a casual date or a hookup" - but if you have a life long serious goal then I say stop making excuses about "trying" and "12 years."

[mylolita]

I’m legitimately curious Mysterious! How many women have you asked out in 12 years? If it is under 40, then I would say that is farrrr too little to get any response at all. 
 

If you said I have asked out over 100 in 12 years I might start to think you are doing something wrong - but if it’s just not often enough, not meeting women you like and directly asking them enough, that could be your problem. That’s my hunch, anyway, not that you are unattractive or not a good catch on paper but because you may think you have asked out plenty of women but over your timeframe, actually not enough to get a positive outcome at all!

 

x

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, mylolita said:

I’m legitimately curious Mysterious! How many women have you asked out in 13 years? If it is under 40, then I would say that is farrrr too little to get any response at all. 
 

If you said I have asked out over 100 in 12 years I might start to think you are doing something wrong - but if it’s just not often enough, not meeting women you like and directly asking them enough, that could be your problem. That’s my hunch, anyway, not that you are unattractive or not a good catch on paper but because you may think you have asked out plenty of women but over your timeframe, actually not enough to get a positive outcome at all!

 

x

It also depends on context, who he is asking out, how he knows them.  In high school I tried to convince my cute, socially awkward guy friend (yes just friends!) that he should ask out a girl just to get practice, get the ball rolling -I mean he was cute!  So he chose the hottest girl in school -she actually modeled professionally.  She said no.  So he told me "see I tried!!" LOL.

[Tinydance]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Did it for the better part of 24 years -most of the suggestions aren't the sort you "try" then stop because as time goes on doing those things very often have wildly different impacts.  Like my friend who was a ballerina and then would dance on and off for fun - years later married her salsa dancing instructor, the friend who kept playing tennis and that's how she met her husband, my decision to be out there meeting people constantly and looking for suitable activities wasn't something I tried with a finite end point to justify "see I tried it didn't work" - I kept on kept on - and all of those experiences helped me to become the right person to find the right person (despite no guarantees).

Yes some things you try and then move on - like I tried skiing once it wasn't for me -maybe I could have met someone like that.  Right now Pickleball is all the rage and I respect those who try it a few times because they want a better social life and then realize it's not for them.  I know now because of the pandemic I have to push myself to meet people in person and get out there again so I've gone on three group walks in the park that are every other Friday with parents from my son's school. 

After walk one a really cool person asked me to go on a walk with her one on one.  As in dating parlance it's obvious she wasn't "that into me". 

So do I tell myself "ok I tried the parent walks twice and they're not working for me because I didn't meet anyone yet I clicked with?  No.  I went a third time and I will do my best to go this Friday -honestly it's inconvenient for me and I don't really want to but I know I need to restart an in person social life so I will force myself. 

If I said "I tried parent walks and they didn't work" that would be silly -different people might come and my overall goal remains the same. Now if I went and people were nasty to me or if I went and no one showed up that would be a good reason to stop. 

But please stop dismissing broad suggestions that are tried and true with "tried it/didn't work." 12 years is a long time. I get it. So was 24.  For me it was worth it because I wanted marriage and family.  Had I not it wouldn't have been worth it. 

It's ok to say "I'm happy on my own therefore all this time and effort isn't worth it" or "I'm not going to do all this because all I really want out of it is a casual date or a hookup" - but if you have a life long serious goal then I say stop making excuses about "trying" and "12 years."

Yes that's right, dating is a process. A lot of it does end in rejection too so it requires to keep trying. Also it's about luck as well. I've mentioned about my best friend who only went on 4 - 5 dates from online and then found her husband of now 14 years. I mean she's pretty but not a model necessarily so why was it so easy for her? And also speaking of imperfections. Her husband actually has a stutter but she didn't care. Unfortunately her son also has a stutter because maybe it's genetic.