Hesitant between starting remotely or move to the new country

[survivor2021]

I(25M) accepted an IT job offer in Germany a while ago, but because of some embassy problems, I did not get my VISA appointment before my agreed starting date. I thought that I will start after 3 months back then but there was still no news from the embassy so my new employer told me that it was ok and that they will wait for me until something comes up from the embassy.

2 more months went on and still nothing, so the company came up with the suggestion to start working remotely ( something they should have offered from the start in case I did not make it ) and I accepted. I thought that it's better this way since I will have more time to learn the language, get familiar with the tasks I will be doing, and meet my new team, all while staying in my country. It will be less stressful this way since this is the first time I will travel and live abroad. So I bought some German language books and moved back to my parent's home.

Ironically, after agreeing to my new temporary remote contract, the embassy contacted me finally yesterday and gave me an appointment 3 weeks from now. Now I'm very hesitant about what I should do.

Should I tell my company that the embassy contacted me and that I will be getting my VISA soon but prefer to start working remotely for 2 or 3 months before moving to Germany since we already went down that path? Or would that come out as unprofessional?

[moodindigo91]

I don't think it would be unprofessional to ask to work remotely for a while until you relocate. It is perfectly reasonable, especially if they've already agreed to allow you to work remotely temporarily. I did something similar when I moved for my current job. Now, I didn't move to an entirely new country, but I did have to relocate to a new city from one city but all of my belongings were in storage in another city, all cities were not located near one another. I needed a lot of time to plan, obtain funds to move, find a place, get my belongings, move them to the new place, etc. When I got hired, I maintained contact with them and told them I would need a certain amount of time to get there but I could work remotely until I was able to physically relocate. They agreed to it and I worked remotely for about 2-3 weeks before physically relocating. 

I think as long as you propose it in a professional manner and let them know you're obviously still intending to relocate and soon, then maintain good communication with them as far as the status of your relocation during your remote work. 

[catfeeder]

Work remotely to learn whether the job is a good fit before making such a leap.

So many people are regretting that they've made themselves physically available to work on site, as now their employers demand full time on site service.

They're stuck with horrible commutes or other stressful conditions for no good reason.

Many must now sell the far away homes they purchased, or quit, or hope for another shutdown, which is unlikely.

Keep your options open unless and until YOU are ready to make the leap to onsite work in another country.

[SooSad33]

29 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

Should I tell my company that the embassy contacted me and that I will be getting my VISA soon but prefer to start working remotely for 2 or 3 months before moving to Germany since we already went down that path? Or would that come out as unprofessional?

I think you should do what YOU want here.

Yeah, if you feel a few months more would suit you better at this time, then do that.

IF that company has told you it's no problem, can you now, just look into the 'process' then proceed in the next few months?

If you were really into travelling there, then I'd say keep on that & enjoy the experience!

[Blue_Skirt]

I live in Europe, not in Germany, but I have worked with German companies professionally for many years. I am fluent in German and I also have friends in Germany.

It totally depends on the company, but generally, working remotely is not standard in Germany. Allthough even in Germany things seem to be loosening up a bit now after people have been working from home during the COVID lockdowns. If the company is operating internationally, they might be more open to you working remotely for a bit longer, but otherwise from my experience, things are more strict in Germany, the rules are the rules.

What was the deal with the company when you accepted the job? Did they expect you to relocate to Germany? Where in Germany is the company located? Where are you located now?

I would advise you to learn German, even if it is in the beginning just the basics, like greetings, thank you etc., that always makes a good first impression with team members. Not everyone in Germany is fluent in English and I have seen many people struggling with English and they were always relieved when they found out that they could speak German with me.

Also, and again, it totally depends on the company’s culture, but in more conservative companies, you typically don’t call your managers and even colleagues by the first name, it’s very often on a last name basis. It can be quite formal.

Good luck with your new job!

[survivor2021]

@Blue_Skirt 

Quote

What was the deal with the company when you accepted the job?

We never thought that the VISA process will drag for this long. We thought that I will make it after 3 months but I did not.

The company has a multicultural environment and in fact and German is not required at all because I've been told that all colleagues talk english. Of course I have to learn German since I will be living there.

I hear from engineers working there that the company is very flexible when it comes to remote work, even for those who are living there. They have to go to the office on specific days only. So my impression from the interviews and the feedbacks of the employees I've contacted for opinion is that the company is flexible and not conservative.

[Batya33]

Agree with remote work first. I likely would be honest about the embassy contact because you don't want them to find out later should you then decide to relocate that you knew this - they offered it thinking you had no other option.

[Cherylyn]

Couldn't hurt to ask before making the drastic leap to uproot your life to a new country.  However, think this through first before making your decisions.   

Since you're living with your parents,  if money is not an issue and if this German company releases you as a viable candidate,  you can always search for another job which better suits your needs. 

If you're desperate for this German job, beggars can't be choosers meaning take what you can get because job opportunities may be few and far between for you.  It depends on how long you've been unemployed and how long it took for you to obtain this German job?  Then weigh your options.  Some people don't have a choice and don't challenge their employer for fear of losing the job opportunity entirely.  If you need a steady paycheck now,  I would do as the company says.  If you are confident regarding obtaining another job quickly, then ask this German company to accommodate your needs.  Assess your situation and then make your decisions.  Don't be impulsive otherwise you'll regret it.  Think things through very thoroughly first. 

[Kwothe28]

5 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

Should I tell my company that the embassy contacted me and that I will be getting my VISA soon but prefer to start working remotely for 2 or 3 months before moving to Germany since we already went down that path? Or would that come out as unprofessional?

I think its OK to tell them and see their opinion on it. Say that you just were contacted about Visa but that in meantime you can work remotely. And see if they are OK with that. They are your future employers, good IT worker is very hard to find in Germany (I have a friend that went there from my country, he is in Berlin now) so they would probably be OK with that as they already offered you to work remotely until Visa stuff gets handled. In meantime, focus on language. Maybe enrolling into some course is also a good option but you would probably get that option in Germany too when you get there, my sister-in-law did that when brother and her moved there. 

[mylolita]

Hey Survivor!

 

Congratulations on your new job!

 

I would be honest about your appointment with the embassy. I would also keep in contact with them about how the process is going - be it a phone call or e-mail, whichever they seem to be preferring. I think they will like the feeling of you being honest with them and transparent. Keep it professional - maybe speak to HR about your relocating logistics. They might be understanding and give you extra time, but I wouldn’t bank on it. Try and get your eggs in a row in good time if you can! 
 

This seems like a huge move - are you familiar with Germany? Have you been there before, even on holiday, or know anyone who is from Germany or has German family?

 

I’m from the UK, I have lived here all my life. We were always taught basic to decent German in schools from 11-16. German is very close to English, you have probably heard it said, but it doesn’t mean learning a new language is easy! I know the basics and the pleasantries but I would definitely struggle to get by - online classes might help, or a language evening school to help you gain confidence with the language a bit quicker!

 

I don’t know how it is in Germany, although the Germans have always been more rule orientated and regulation orientated especially when it comes to work. They are known for their efficiency. In the UK, working from home or wanting to work from home, I will say, has become socially a bit of a “slacker move” - people generally in England don’t look too sympathetically on it. The old school mentality of turning up at the office, mingling with co-workers in person, sitting shoulder to shoulder with them during meetings and projects, I think, still holds true here. I don’t even think most people working in UK offices would admit it but, there is an undercurrent of general judgement when people say “I want to work remotely”. 
 

I couldn’t say what the general mentality towards working remotely is in Germany. 

 

I would take your queues from your new company, it sounds like you have already! They seem maybe more loosey goosey than your standard German engineering firm. Don’t push them, try your best to get there in good time, don’t let it drag on if you can but also don’t break your own back throwing yourself across the pond. You don’t want to get there feeling frazzled and under prepared. 
 

Can you speak to your colleagues? Ask them questions maybe about local areas near your new work place, German custom? Any tips for getting by once you land? Sometimes this builds work report and people like to be asked for advice and help, they see it as you humbling yourself. You might also get some really practical tips! Like, where to move too - which areas are handy for shops and bars, which areas are very pricey, where to get or hire a car, etc. even if you can Google it, people just like being asked I have found, it breaks the ice nicely! And you are showing interest in their country! 
 

Make sure your heart is in this survivor! I have never re-located but I imagine it’s a big deal and a big change of lifestyle and life pace. It’s an exciting adventure as well! 

 

I know an Austrian woman… she is classically exactly like the stereotype - HA! Maybe I am classically British too. We fit into general moulds a bit more than we would like to admit.

 

I will say our way of communicating is very different, even when she is speaking English. You can tell two different cultures are at play! It’s not necessarily a bad thing, just some things get lost in translation. We Brits constantly self depreciate in humour, it’s a real common thing. She responds to this by patting my shoulder and saying there there basically! When I’m not being serious! You’ll learn all these little niches once you get there and work for awhile!

 

@Blue_Skirt what would you say the micro customs are in Germany? Or general mannerisms are of German people? Any big dos and don’ts? 
 

Knowing these things can make you feel more confident and at ease before touching down!

 

All the best!

 

x

[mylolita]

Cues* I meant woah long night 🫠

 

x

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, mylolita said:

I would be honest about your appointment with the embassy. I would also keep in contact with them about how the process is going - be it a phone call or e-mail, whichever they seem to be preferring. I think they will like the feeling of you being honest with them and transparent. Keep it professional - maybe speak to HR about your relocating logistics. They might be understanding and give you extra time, but I wouldn’t bank on it. Try and get your eggs in a row in good time if you can! 

Related to this -from personal experience - it's a really great feeling starting out at a new job knowing you've shared what's relevant -meaning relevant to job performance and job environment -from your "personal" life.  When I returned to the workforce after 7 years out working as a full time mom to our son, it felt awesome to find an employer that had a part time program that over the years had attracted stay at home moms looking to return to working outside the home.

A relief to be able to be transparent about limitations I might have with a 7 year old and a husband who traveled a great deal.  Having said that I didn't overshare -I presented myself as a person ready willing and able but since my status was also mom to a young child even my ability to show up for part time work might have more limitations than someone who didn't care for a child or elderly family member, etc.  

Just like with you - you don't want employer belatedly finding out that this whole time you actually did have the option of showing up in person but hid it for your own interests in getting the job.  You don't "have to" share anything about your status since you have the correct credentials to work remotely at this moment but employers appreciate not being in the dark about such things.  

[Blue_Skirt]

I went back to read some of your previous posts. Is this the job in Munich you accepted? Munich is an expensive city and finding an affordable place to live can be difficult. You might look for a place outside the city and travel with public transport as a starting point.

Make it your priority to find a place to live and I would ask help from the HR department. The company hired you knowing that you need a VISA, don’t speak German and thus it is clear you need help finding a place. Once you live in Germany, it is easier to find something else.

 

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

I would be honest about your appointment with the embassy. I would also keep in contact with them about how the process is going - be it a phone call or e-mail, whichever they seem to be preferring. I think they will like the feeling of you being honest with them and transparent. Keep it professional - maybe speak to HR about your relocating logistics. They might be understanding and give you extra time, but I wouldn’t bank on it. Try and get your eggs in a row in good time if you can! 

Mylolita is spot on. Keep in touch with the company about your VISA progress.

 

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

I don’t know how it is in Germany, although the Germans have always been more rule orientated and regulation orientated especially when it comes to work.

Yes, this is my experience, as I said before, the rules are the rules.

Even though people have told you that you can work remotely, even when you have moved to Germany, check whether your employment agreement has a clause about working from home, because personally, I would go by what has been written in the employment agreement.

 

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

@Blue_Skirt what would you say the micro customs are in Germany? Or general mannerisms are of German people? Any big dos and don’ts? 

I would generally advise to address people in the formal way Mr / Mrs (“Herr” / “Frau”) using last name only. When speaking to them and you say “you” use the German “Sie”, which is the more respectful way.

When work colleagues offer you to call them by their first name, that is a good sign and accept it by thanking them by saying something to the effect of “Thanks, I am <your first name>”. And then you can say “Du” (also you, but the informal way) instead of the formal “Sie”.

Don’t expect to receive a “thank you” from your employer for a job well done (because you are being paid for it). Now if you receive a “thank you” that is a good sign!

Finally, should you ever leave your job in Germany ask for a “Arbeitszeugnis” (Certificate of employment or a reference letter). The company is obliged to give you one and this is so typically German. I have always been joking to my German friends that I could never get a job in Germany, because I don’t have any reference letters, I think I have only 1, lol.

[Kwothe28]

18 minutes ago, Blue_Skirt said:

Make it your priority to find a place to live and I would ask help from the HR department. The company hired you knowing that you need a VISA, don’t speak German and thus it is clear you need help finding a place. Once you live in Germany, it is easier to find something else.

 

I would just add to this. They maybe just find you a place to live for the first 3 months until you manage to find your own. For example brother and his family got a nice hotel at company expanses. As well as company car if its far from your work place(which would probably be since Munich is big city).

Also, yes, Munich, Berlin and Hamburg in particular are very expensive cities. You work in IT so you probably will manage nicely but be prepared for crazy expanses for rent and other stuff. 

And yes, dont expect too much from your work colleagues. Germans are formal and job oriented, that means everybody just does their job, generally dont care about yours and you are expected to do the same. 

[Wiseman2]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:42 PM, survivor2021 said:

I(25M) accepted an IT job offer in Germany a while ago, 

How fluent are you in German? While most people speak English especially in international business settings, it's hard to make friends without having some fluency and understanding of the culture, which is quite staid.