What kind of relationship do me and my friend have? Please help

[limandy]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Nothing to do with what year it is.  Sexual contact is sexual contact as it was 40 years ago when I was a teenager.  There's no view needed.  This is not a relationship -this is an interaction you described and you asked if it was a platonic interaction.  It was not.  Basic stuff.

Separately if your friend promised not to have sexual contact outside of his relationship then he is cheating.  Perhaps he and his girlfriend defined their boundaries and level of commitment differently. This is none of your concern.

i see what you mean, its very black and white in the defintion of what is sexual and isnt.  its the definition of what is "gay" and "straight" is what isnt straight forward or personal opinion. thoughts?

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, limandy said:

i see what you mean, its very black and white in the defintion of what is sexual and isnt.  its the definition of what is "gay" and "straight" is what isnt straight forward or personal opinion. thoughts?

I don't actually think it makes any difference if someone is gay or straight. Unless you live in some kind of tribal or nudist society, there is a general belief that you wouldn't be naked or intimately touch your friends. Even if you were naked with your friends then it would only be considered not intimate in certain contexts. E.g. Getting changed in a change room, same gender sauna. 

I think it doesn't matter if someone is gay or straight but it matters if they are physically and sexually attracted to that person and what is their reason for being naked and touching that person.

Whether this guy is cheating on his girlfriend may depend on their own arrangements in their relationship. E.g. If they're polyamorous or have an open relationship. However that doesn't change the fact that you are intimately involved with this "friend".

[jul-els]

40 minutes ago, limandy said:

I meant, maybe in this day and age, it is more okay for straight men to do more intimate touching with other men, and it is not categorized as "gay" therefore, maybe in his eyes it wasent considered intimate and he wasent "technically" cheating on his gf.  thoughts?

If you want to know what he’s thinking, you’ll have to ask him. I honestly would just let the whole situation end. Continuing would just mean you’re enabling his cheating and puts you in a bad spot. 

[smackie9]

Yes he does know you are bi because you are displaying sexual contact with him. He's bi too is my guess. It's gonna happen eventually if this keeps up. Which is ok if you two can open up about it and just carry on enjoying whatever it is you two have. 

[Kwothe28]

Did he said "No homo"? Its alright, if he did say that it still means he is straight.

Its a joke lol. Because I dont know how to take this story seriously. Wrestling naked? Touching each other? Being intimate? Do you really think that what you described is something straight guys do? I mean gender and sexual norms today are blurry. But again, do you reallly think that just because he didnt penetrate you(yet lol) its OK and something that friends do? That he taps your sexual organ? I am sorry but its just silly to think that guy is at least not closeted gay.

[limandy]

36 minutes ago, jul-els said:

If you want to know what he’s thinking, you’ll have to ask him. I honestly would just let the whole situation end. Continuing would just mean you’re enabling his cheating and puts you in a bad spot. 

you have a very fair point on that. it is very true it will put me in a really bad spot.

[limandy]

37 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Yes he does know you are bi because you are displaying sexual contact with him. He's bi too is my guess. It's gonna happen eventually if this keeps up. Which is ok if you two can open up about it and just carry on enjoying whatever it is you two have. 

I am enjoying what we have, although it may not last long because of the dynamics of the relationship with him and his girlfriend.  One thing will most likely give out.

[limandy]

37 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Did he said "No homo"? Its alright, if he did say that it still means he is straight.

Its a joke lol. Because I dont know how to take this story seriously. Wrestling naked? Touching each other? Being intimate? Do you really think that what you described is something straight guys do? I mean gender and sexual norms today are blurry. But again, do you reallly think that just because he didnt penetrate you(yet lol) its OK and something that friends do? That he taps your sexual organ? I am sorry but its just silly to think that guy is at least not closeted gay.

when we are in bed cudding, or when im rubbing up on him, he just lies in bed and just lets me do it (regardless if we are drinking or not).  He doesnt have a hard on and doesnt intiate anything with me.  Just lets me do it everytime we are in bed, and then next day tells me he remembers everything.  This wouldnt just be a sign of a really good straight friend? because if I dont do anything, we wouldnt have these moments.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, limandy said:

its very black and white in the defintion of what is sexual and isnt.  its the definition of what is "gay" and "straight" is what isnt straight forward or personal opinion. 

The CDC simply calls it "men who have sex with men" and stays away from all your sociocultural labels. That could mean on the down low, in prison, by choice or whatever. It's not as narrow as you want it to be. But you already know cuddling nude with your male buddy is not a stereotypical straight behavior.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, limandy said:

I meant, maybe in this day and age, it is more okay for straight men to do more intimate touching with other men, and it is not categorized as "gay" therefore, maybe in his eyes it wasent considered intimate and he wasent "technically" cheating on his gf.  thoughts?

I mean my father in law kissed his male relatives hello and this was in the 90s and decades before.  It doesn't matter whether it's gay -it's not platonic contact.  People don't touch each other's private parts with their hands or mouths, etc, directly, platonically, no matter the gender. 

Men hug, men kiss hello on the cheek -men don't hang around touching each other's penises through clothing or when naked and call that platonic. It's sexual touching. Women don't touch each other's naked breasts other than maybe for a health related reason like if I asked a woman friend to see if she thought I had a lump in my breast (no I never have just hypothetical).  Same with male health providers who are doing an exam.  I mean come on.

[Batya33]

41 minutes ago, limandy said:

when we are in bed cudding, or when im rubbing up on him, he just lies in bed and just lets me do it (regardless if we are drinking or not).  He doesnt have a hard on and doesnt intiate anything with me.  Just lets me do it everytime we are in bed, and then next day tells me he remembers everything.  This wouldnt just be a sign of a really good straight friend? because if I dont do anything, we wouldnt have these moments.

Sexual arousal by the other person isn't what defines sexual contact.  For example if at work a man rubs up against a woman and she doesn't get aroused she will still go to HR and report sexual contact if she wishes and won't be asked if it aroused her as part of the definition.  Your friend is consenting to sexual contact by you on him.

[boltnrun]

Mental gymnastics and pretending that what the year is currently is relevant doesn't change what's happening...he is engaging in sexual activity with you.

Are you OK with being the third party in his relationship? And what does his girlfriend think of the sexual activity he engages in with you?

[catfeeder]

Quote

What kind of relationship do me and my friend have?

Deceptive. When our behaviors are kept secret from a partner, especially behaviors that can potentially put that person at risk for s disease, it's deception--regardless of any other verbal pretzels you might want to do with language.

Everyone's sexuality and gender fall on a spectrum. From 100% heterosexual behaviors and fantasies to hetero behaviors with homo or trans fantasies or visa versa mixing all the way across the spectrum to 100% homosexual behaviors and fantasies. Same with gender where a person can have 100% single sex genes and genitalia or a mix that might display outwardly as one sex while carrying genes or internal (undescended) genitalia of the other sex. This is the rational behind the movement to allow everyone to self-identify without anyone else assigning an identity TO another.

But regardless of how one self-identifies, if they are deceiving another person with their words or behaviors, that's deception--100%. 

[limandy]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

The CDC simply calls it "men who have sex with men" and stays away from all your sociocultural labels. That could mean on the down low, in prison, by choice or whatever. It's not as narrow as you want it to be. But you already know cuddling nude with your male buddy is not a stereotypical straight behavior.

I see, its just by definition not straight behavior no matter what time and age.  I just never pushed it to the point of sex, which is why I thought it wasent, but I see how its viewed as.

[limandy]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Sexual arousal by the other person isn't what defines sexual contact.  For example if at work a man rubs up against a woman and she doesn't get aroused she will still go to HR and report sexual contact if she wishes and won't be asked if it aroused her as part of the definition.  Your friend is consenting to sexual contact by you on him.

That is very true, i see what you are saying now, by law and definition it was sexual contact, any third party would have seen it that way, both under law and public view.  thanks so much for the insight!

[limandy]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Mental gymnastics and pretending that what the year is currently is relevant doesn't change what's happening...he is engaging in sexual activity with you.

Are you OK with being the third party in his relationship? And what does his girlfriend think of the sexual activity he engages in with you?

I am not okay with being third party in the relationship, but I am not looking for that kind of relationship with him.  I never thought this would even happen.  Just a really good friend that i cherish, and I HIGHLY doubt anything will come between us.  As long as he is in a relationship, I choose to not interfere, but I dont mind the touching and cuddling.

[limandy]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Deceptive. When our behaviors are kept secret from a partner, especially behaviors that can potentially put that person at risk for s disease, it's deception--regardless of any other verbal pretzels you might want to do with language.

Everyone's sexuality and gender fall on a spectrum. From 100% heterosexual behaviors and fantasies to hetero behaviors with homo or trans fantasies or visa versa mixing all the way across the spectrum to 100% homosexual behaviors and fantasies. Same with gender where a person can have 100% single sex genes and genitalia or a mix that might display outwardly as one sex while carrying genes or internal (undescended) genitalia of the other sex. This is the rational behind the movement to allow everyone to self-identify without anyone else assigning an identity TO another.

But regardless of how one self-identifies, if they are deceiving another person with their words or behaviors, that's deception--100%. 

I see what you mean, there is no 100% hetersexual, I classify as BI just because I have only been in relationship with women, but I do find men attractive to me.  But the behavior is sexual with him and that is a hard fact, regardless of the gay or straight classification.  thanks for insight! really appreciate it

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, limandy said:

 I classify as BI just because I have only been in relationship with women.

Are you over 18? Get on Gringr and explore your sexuality. It sounds like you are confused.

[boltnrun]

11 minutes ago, limandy said:

I choose to not interfere, but I dont mind the touching and cuddling.

This is contradictory.

Would you want someone you're in a committed relationship with to cuddle naked and touch the genitals of someone other than you?

I think you're being deliberately disingenuous. Pretending you don't know that people who are naked and rubbing on one another and touching one another's genitals are engaging in sexual activity. Mental gymnastics doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility for the actions they choose to engage in.

Would you engage in this behavior if his girlfriend was present? Would he?

[Jaunty]

6 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I don't actually think it makes any difference if someone is gay or straight. Unless you live in some kind of tribal or nudist society, there is a general belief that you wouldn't be naked or intimately touch your friends.

Nudists don't grab each other by the balls either.  

OP:  I'm interested in how you two find yourself frequently wrestling buck naked.  Do you decide together to take off your clothes, or just spontaneously strip down at any given time? 

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, Jaunty said:

Nudists don't grab each other by the balls either.  

OP:  I'm interested in how you two find yourself frequently wrestling buck naked.  Do you decide together to take off your clothes, or just spontaneously strip down at any given time? 

Yeah sorry I meant just the being naked part. Unless you're at a nudist beach or something it's not normal to get naked with your friends.

[boltnrun]

6 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Yeah sorry I meant just the being naked part. Unless you're at a nudist beach or something it's not normal to get naked with your friends.

Or to lie on top of them while you're both naked, or to rub on them, or to touch their genitals...

I don't know anyone who wouldn't consider this sexual interaction.

[Tinydance]

How old are you OP? I find it very surprising that you would honestly think that what you're doing is fine and not cheating. Even if you don't know the nature of his relationship with his girlfriend, you do know that he HAS a girlfriend. I'm sure somewhere deep down you know it's wrong but you're telling yourself it's all fine because you're "just cuddling". Actually you aren't just cuddling. You are both naked by choice and you're rubbing your hard penis on him. And he's fine with this and never asked you to stop, so he consents to it. 

Also I find it odd you're just carrying on with this and you haven't asked him what is actually going on here??!! Why is he doing this? Like, don't you want to know? Instead you're asking strangers online if he's gay or straight  - we don't know that.

[limandy]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you over 18? Get on Gringr and explore your sexuality. It sounds like you are confused.

Yea I am confused which is why I am asking this thread, this is my first homosexual experience with any man, but I didnt think it was homosexual untill i started thinking about it after all these times intimate touching.  Weve been doing this for a while now, but now I am thinking back at it, may not br normal and that is why I am asking.  I just never gave it thought till recently, looking back at our videos/pictures, I was like wait maybe I was delusional that this wasent a big deal LOL.  Now u guys are helping me.

[limandy]

6 hours ago, boltnrun said:

This is contradictory.

Would you want someone you're in a committed relationship with to cuddle naked and touch the genitals of someone other than you?

I think you're being deliberately disingenuous. Pretending you don't know that people who are naked and rubbing on one another and touching one another's genitals are engaging in sexual activity. Mental gymnastics doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility for the actions they choose to engage in.

Would you engage in this behavior if his girlfriend was present? Would he?

Hi yes, you are correct, as mentioned in my previous answer, the whole time I was just ignoring the situation and being delusional about it.  Only when I went back looking at all our pictures/videos that I recently started thinking that it was not normal between straight friends to do this.  Like I said first time having these kind of experiences with another guy.