Ex drama

[Desperate1]

After almost 4 years, my abusive ex husband has decided he wants back in my daughters life. 4 years ago he had another baby with his now new wife and decided he wanted our daughter to get to know her baby brother, i obviously said no contact with him as he was really abusive with her to. One night after dancing, her dad collected her and i had a call to say she was staying with her dad now as she wanted to get to know him again. After 3 weeks she was told to live with his mam as there was no room in the house for her even though she'd never met her paternal grandmother. After 2 weeks living with her, she kicked her out as she was hard work and they cut all contact with her. 4 years later, he now wants her back which as shes almost 16 have no control if she sees him or not. My daughter knows i am very unhappy and worried about this as is the rest of our family, after being back in his life 2 weeks, she is now constantly in trouble at school, her behaviour and attitude is awful and if i say no to something, she tells me she'll just go and live with her dad. My ex pays for nothing, doesn't treat her well and when he's had enough of her, he doesn't drop her off or supply bus fare to get home. I have a restraining order from him due to domestic violence and he cant come within 25 meters of my home. I am at the end as i have no support and my daughter sees it as i'm the problem as i discipline her if she talks back to me or is nasty, i have no control as she just walks out and goes to her dads. No idea where to go from here, i have spoken to social services regarding my worries but as she is almost 16 they won't do anything unless he hurts her physically. Help!

[boltnrun]

Contact a family law attorney and a social worker to get good professional advice. Also ask for assistance in setting up counseling for your daughter. She will resist going but she is still a minor and must follow the direction of her custodial parent. Let her know you love her and are concerned and you'd like her to have someone she can talk to and be honest with. Assure her you will not ask the counselor to tell you what she says.

Was your relationship with your daughter good until her father came back into her life? Or was she already having struggles?

[Wiseman2]

You need to apply for court ordered supervised visitation. Otherwise you can not control this.

[Lambert]

How is your relationship with your daughter otherwise?

Does she talk to you about her life and feelings?

Or is she afraid to upset you?

Have you made her dad the villain and now she's a afraid to love him?

Regardless of what you know about this guy and your concerns, it's hard on her. Children want both parents. 

Maybe you can talk to a therapist about how to talk to her about this. where it's not an argument. Where you spent a bulk of the time listening to her.

What does she think about her dad coming back around?

How does she feel when he doesn't drop her off or help her get to a bus or whatever?

Does she know she can call you any time and what to do in a situation where he does something like that? 

It's important for you to understand her and make it so no matter what happens with him, she has you... meaning you understand her. And you express this to her.

When she says things that are disrespectful or threaten to go live with him. How do you react?

I think you have to find a way to flip this script to being allies not adversaries 

[DancingFool]

OP, this is the sort complex situation that is way beyond the help of random unqualified strangers on advice boards.

Your best course is to speak to a good child psychiatrist specifically about how to respond to your daughter when she is threatening you, how to handle yourself and where to draw boundaries and how. You need that advice from someone who actually knows what they are talking about, have direct experience and education helping parents like yourself.

Also, agree with your daughter needs counseling to help her deal with the abuse and trauma as well.

Understand that children who grow up with an abusive parent tend to want to please that abusive parent, which is counter intuitive to you and hard to understand. Again, why you need professional help to learn how to navigate this.

 

[SooSad33]

2 hours ago, Desperate1 said:

after being back in his life 2 weeks, she is now constantly in trouble at school, her behaviour and attitude is awful and if i say no to something, she tells me she'll just go and live with her dad. My ex pays for nothing, doesn't treat her well and when he's had enough of her, he doesn't drop her off or supply bus fare to get home. I have a restraining order from him due to domestic violence and he cant come within 25 meters of my home. I am at the end as i have no support and my daughter sees it as i'm the problem as i discipline her if she talks back to me or is nasty, i have no control

Sadly, it is true.  You do not have control of her this way, as she has her own choices in this matter.  My son chose to go to his dad's as well around this age, I said fine, this is your choice.. It lasted about a year ( longer than I assumed), but it's something HE wanted & felt he needed to do.

I remember a saying, ..When they are young we 'raise' them, as they hit their teens, we 'guide' them... Meaning no matter what you say or try to do with them.. they can easily find a way.  Yes, they can & will deceive you.  They will go against your word.  They are challenging.

So, don't try to damage your own self too much here.  Let her explore and let her learn, on her own.

Only so much you can do .  I am sure, eventually she'll come back.

As for past abuse with him. did either of you seek prof help?  My son was damaged a few ways & did need some therapy etc.  Keep watch on this.. Teen years can be very stressful with all the changes & stressors ❤️ 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Desperate1 said:

shes almost 16 have no control if she sees him or not. she is now constantly in trouble at school, her behaviour and attitude is awful and if i say no to something, she tells me she'll just go and live with her dad. My ex pays for nothing he doesn't drop her off or supply bus fare to get home. 

It's unclear why there isn't court ordered child support. She did not suddenly have problems 2 weeks ago since he started visitation.

It's also unclear why she can't call you to come pick her up wherever she is and she has to take a bus.

Some of this seems like a rebellious teenager. Some of this is due to your  exasperation, that she clearly picks up on.

Get into family therapy with her. Most of all, use the courts to secure child support (which she is entitled to) and try to get supervised visitation or at least an organized visitation plan together.

 The way to you are handling it with fear, over control and antagonism won't help you.. Be her mother and open to listening to her, rather than shutting down and shutting her out because of your hatred of her father.

[Desperate1]

I involved social services 4 years ago as both her dad and his new wife are abusive in ways i can't understand why she puts herself through the trauma just to get hurt again. I have spoken to lawyer who has told me due to her age, the court would give my daughter her voice unless there was a serious  physical or mental situation which put her in immediate danger. I have had a very good relationship with my daughter, until it comes to her dad, one minute she wants a restraining order, the next hes better than sliced bread. My daughter has seen her dad hit me, scream at me while spitting, crying pretending to take an overdose, throw things at me and abuse me in public. Needless to say the police have numerous reports regarding abuse. Once i left him and filed for a restraining order, things improved until he got back in touch with our daughter and now its like shes forgot everything he id to me or her. I don't talk about her father to her only that she texts me when she is with him so i know shes ok or if she needs busfare etc if im at work. Its an awful situation to be in as i feel totally helpless. Everything comes down to her age when dealing with counsellors or courts, it has to be her choice and if i say no to contact with him, she goes behind my back. I'm just hoping she realises before he does something she can't get out of.

 

[Wiseman2]

44 minutes ago, Desperate1 said:

Everything comes down to her age when dealing with counsellors or courts

She's a minor? Then she is entitled to child support. Unfortunately, he is entitled to visitation since you did not apply for court ordered supervised visitation.

Yes, she as well has the right to see her father regardless of what he did to you, restraining orders, etc.

What is your end goal? Supervised visitation or a coherent co-parenting plan? 

Those are your only choices. As far as her acting out, see if she'll agree to seeing a psychologist specializing in adolescents.

Make and appointment for yourself and her for a family counselor. Try to get on more neutral caring terms with her.

Much of this, sadly, is from your own chaos and unfortunately she is acting out in addition to rebelling and mirroring your drama.

 

 

[Seraphim]

Ok, let me give you the “ child’s perspective “ keep in mind I am almost 55 now. My father was “ that guy” the abusive husband and dad. My mom left many times and even married other people. I had step fathers who were wonderful to me. Guess what? I still wanted MY dad. I wanted him to be normal and have a relationship with me. EVERY child wants that. 
 

It took me until my 30’s to have boundaries with him and not let him mentally and emotionally abuse me anymore. However, that meant us cutting off most of our relationship with each other. Intensely painful for me. 
 

My dad passed away a year ago at 74. The finality that I never had a real relationship with him guts me still. 

Also YOU may hate your ex but your daughter does not . Partner relationships are not unconditional, but most parent and child ones are. 

Your daughter is searching for the same things I was. A relationship with her father. She is angry. Angry at him and angry at you too for this whole mess. Sometimes I am angry at mom for making this person my parent and putting up with his crap and damaging us all. I have gotten past most of that anger now, but that is what your daughter is experiencing. She needs help but due to her age you may not be able to force her. Here in Canada the age of 12 is when you can no longer force a minor into mental health care if they say ,no.

 

Anyway some things to think about. 

[Seraphim]

I will say too, I wanted an apology from my mother and her to accept and OWN the part she played in my being abused. She as an adult owed me a safe childhood I didn’t get that and was abused in every way possible. So even though she was a victim as well SHE was the adult and parent. Our relationship got MUCH more peaceful  once she owned her part in what happened. 

[DarkCh0c0]

21 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Our relationship got MUCH more peaceful  once she owned her part in what happened. 

How and when did that happen? if you don't mind me asking. 

[Seraphim]

1 minute ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

How and when did that happen? if you don't mind me asking. 

It took me a lot of therapy and until I was 47 to realize it was an apology is what I needed. I didn’t even realize what I was angry at her for. So once I realized I told her she needed to stop minimizing what happened to me to assuage her guilt and she needed to own her part. I got push back at first but she did own her part and apologize and 99.9 9% of the time I am not angry at her anymore. I realize she was also a victim and it was MUCH different times ( 60’s,70’s and 80’s) when help was not readily available like today. Sometimes she still minimizes because that is her default and I remind her and she stops.
 

She has become angry herself about things to do with my father now that he is gone even though they had not been together in over 30 years at his passing.  

[Kwothe28]

23 hours ago, Desperate1 said:

her behaviour and attitude is awful and if i say no to something, she tells me she'll just go and live with her dad.

You say "OK, when you are 16 go live with him but until then you are under my care and you should listen". You have a rebelious teenager who emotionally blackmails you. You need to get that under control. After she is 16(I assume that is the age when they can decide in your country) she can go wherever she wants. We try our best with kids and I am sure you did. But after certain time, they can decide on their own where they want to go. Be there for her always, but if she decides she wants to live with her dad, there is nothing you can do unless he is really harmful to her.

[DarkCh0c0]

@Seraphim thanks. I appreciate this as I have a similar struggle.

[catfeeder]

Seraphim is giving you important insight to consider, which can serve to your advantage in keeping your relationship alive with daughter.

Nobody has the power or the ability to rationalize or regulate how a person (of ANY age) feels about a parent.

The most that we can do for a loved one who is of age to choose the scope of their own relationship is to voice our availability as an ally rather than allow ourselves to be perceived as an adversary.

While this can mean that if daughter doesn't like a condition of living under your roof she can threaten (or carry out the threat) to live with her father, you have a choice to reconsider whether your condition is alterable, OR, you can tell her that your door remains open should she reconsider...

... AND you can create the right condition for her to reconsider.

It might be helpful to offer a focused situation, such as treating daughter to a mani-pedi with you or a meal at a restaurant of her choice, or whatever--and during this time of positive bonding, explain that you'd like daughter to pretend that she is a parent who loves her teenager who wants to break (the specific rule in question).

Explain in detail some of the potential consequences you fear, and then ask daughter to explain to you what a parent can do to help HER child prevent those consequences.

If daughter gets defensive, ask her to back up and teach YOU what she would want for HER child, and how she would go about helping her child to reach that goal.

Regardless of where the conversation lands, be prepared to back up YOURSELF and thank daughter for trying to hear your point of view. You hope that daughter has a better grasp of your reasons for upholding this particular rule, and your door is open for her to return if things don't work out well with her father. AND, she's welcome to come over regularly for (brunch, laundry, Tuesday dinners, name-your-incentive).

This can cement your bond with daughter rather than alienate her from you regardless of outcomes.

Should she choose to live with her father, understand that this is typical of teenagers regardless of how wonderful their current home may be--it's often something they just need to try our for themselves.

Head high, and write more if it helps.

 

 

[Desperate1]

My daughter does not want to live with her father to be clear, she craves a relationship with him no matter the pain he causes her. I blame myself as instead of when i was with her dad focusing on her mental and physical  safety, i put my own fear above my daughter and i will always regret that and continue to support her whatever she chooses. Myself and my family are purely worried about this toxic relationship with her dad is yet again going to end up in tears and i am helpless to stop it. I have agreed if she wants to see him, i'll accept and just be there for her. We have a therapist and my daughter seems to be better at opening up to her, the therapist also has commented that my daughter does and says things for attention, i can't understand this is i always give her my undivided attention in whatever the situation is, sadly the only way she gets attention from her father is if she creates a problem or situation. 

[Seraphim]

3 minutes ago, Desperate1 said:

My daughter does not want to live with her father to be clear, she craves a relationship with him no matter the pain he causes her. I blame myself as instead of when i was with her dad focusing on her mental and physical  safety, i put my own fear above my daughter and i will always regret that and continue to support her whatever she chooses. Myself and my family are purely worried about this toxic relationship with her dad is yet again going to end up in tears and i am helpless to stop it. I have agreed if she wants to see him, i'll accept and just be there for her. We have a therapist and my daughter seems to be better at opening up to her, the therapist also has commented that my daughter does and says things for attention, i can't understand this is i always give her my undivided attention in whatever the situation is, sadly the only way she gets attention from her father is if she creates a problem or situation. 

It takes people A LONG time to let go of an abusive parent. This is still your parent after all and you are genetically part of that person. So just support her but never badmouth him because she is part of him. It is always pain when you have an abusive parent. It leaves you with deep pain about why you are not loved. Why you are not enough. 
 

She will be more open with a therapist. A therapist doesn’t have a vested interest in her life on the same level as parents . She can also say what she likes without guilt someone is going to feel bad. When she is ready and has the emotional fortitude to open up to you she will . She may not even understand what she wants to tell you yet. I was 47 before I understood what I wanted to say and why and had the emotional fortitude to stand my ground and boundaries. 

This will be a lifetime issue.