Dejavu

[LaHermes]

OP. Seeing as you are meeting with CAB on Friday you might as well brush up in advance on what you will be talking about with them.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/ending-a-relationship/how-to-separate/getting-a-divorce/

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, smilieman said:

Why does it make me feel worthless when I'm ignored? 

She's not responsible for you anymore so you'll have to learn how to talk to your landlord, talk to your lawyer, talk to your doctor, talk to whatever agencies and deal with real life.

She should hurry up and do your paperwork for you while you take yet another stroll in the park? 

It would be best to stop expecting her to spoonfeed you stuff you have access to since you are legally married.

Why not go to the bank or landlord or whatever rather than gardening, walks in the country, lying in the grass etc.?

[smilieman]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

It's vital that all communication goes through your solicitor. 

You already said your ex will be responsible for paying the fees. So please utilize the solicitor.  It's to protect you in all ways including emotional and physical  (health).

Yes, I can see this now very clearly.  I'm always trying to be the reasonable one - thought I would learn, wouldn't you?

[smilieman]

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

That is what you were supposed to do in the first instance OP!

I know....😕  I thought it would be easier. Huh! What do I know, eh?

 

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

Please ask your solicitor to ask your stbx to send THEM the tenancy agreement, which they can then scan and email to you or post you the actual original.

I shall

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

An amicable divorce does NOT mean a DIY divorce.

Wasn't trying to do it myself, just thought that the initial bit would have been easier like that.  I was wrong.

[smilieman]

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

OP. Seeing as you are meeting with CAB on Friday you might as well brush up in advance on what you will be talking about with them.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/ending-a-relationship/how-to-separate/getting-a-divorce/

Thanks for the link. Been through all of that content with the solicitor yesterday. I think we will be talking about debt stuff also, so I need to get all that stuff together if I can find it - this is why I needed to talk with my stbx-wife, as she has the information of what debt companies she pays.  I've found some of them, so that'll have to do for a while.

Housing is the other discussion point it think.

[smilieman]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She's not responsible for you anymore so you'll have to learn how to talk to your landlord, talk to your lawyer, talk to your doctor, talk to whatever agencies and deal with real life.

She should hurry up and do your paperwork for you while you take yet another stroll in the park? 

I won't have to learn to do anything.  I am well educated on how to talk with people, thank you.  As far as the letting agency goes, it's always me dealing with them, I just didn't want to raise any suspicions with them that there was any issues, as this could cause me further problems.

Nobody is asking her to do paperwork, I just need the information that she has in her head, simple.  A stroll in the park.  Am I not allowed an hour to calm my mind?  Otherwise I would be indoors or at home sorting out the house, garden, paperwork and all the other stuff she has discarded and left me to do.

[LaHermes]

37 minutes ago, smilieman said:

Am I not allowed an hour to calm my mind?  Otherwise I would be indoors or at home sorting out the house, garden, paperwork and all the other stuff she has discarded and left me to do.

Not one person here said otherwise, OP! Truly, for your own sake, you need to stop (now) this martyrdom thing of your stbx being the sole cause of all ypour woes. 

And:

45 minutes ago, smilieman said:

Wasn't trying to do it myself, just thought that the initial bit would have been easier like that.  I was wrong.

Did I, or did I not, tell you days ago ages ago to have everything handled by the solicitors?! But you went your merry way anyhow. You think I gave you that advice just for the heck of it!  

And please, when meeting the CAB person, keep strictly to the matter in hand and write down what they say. Their advice will be objective (that is their job) so go with it.

 

[boltnrun]

I'm going to guess you were hoping to meet with her over coffee so you could perhaps try to convince her to come back. You maybe thought if she saw you in person she would realize the huge mistake she was making. Maybe if she saw how badly this has affected you she would feel bad and change her mind about divorcing.

But as you know, this wasn't some impulsive decision she made. She has been planning this for a while. She knows how it will affect you and chose to do it anyway.

Please, let the solicitors handle everything. No more "well, I just thought". It's all best left to the professionals. You're dealing with enough without adding to the pain by trying to see her.

[LaHermes]

1 hour ago, smilieman said:

I just didn't want to raise any suspicions with them that there was any issues, as this could cause me further problems.

What exactly does this mean,OP?  Why would the letting agency cause you "problems". Provided they are getting the rent paid as and when I fail to see the need for secrecy. 

So, I can only think that this tenancy agreement is in her name only, and not both of you. 😳

[smilieman]

7 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

you need to stop (now) this martyrdom thing of your stbx being the sole cause of all ypour woes

With utmost respect...

Is she not the sole cause of this situation then?  Was it not her that left without warning or discourse and was it not her that did not have the common decency to talk to me face to face and still continues to do that, but instead lie and deceive repeatedly and with ease?

Everything we have done in this relationship has been in agreement.  We talked about me not being able to work and after I could function a bit better after a number of years of doctors and tests and feeling absolutely rubbish all the time, we spoke about how we could maybe create a supplemental income that I could look after from home.

So what was my part in her deciding to go off with somebody else then, because quite frankly - and I'm not being rude, I'm really not - but I truly cannot see it.  I cared for her, looked after her, defended her, loved her, supported her through work when she was getting really badly treated.  It was me that spent days and weeks preparing presentations for her work, as she didn't know how to do it.  It was me that started all the discussions about things and about what we could do next week, next month, next year.

All she did was agree and just go along, that's all she has ever done really, in hindsight.  Yes she has supported me in my condition for 7 years, and I supported her in her 7.5 years surprise appearance of auto-immune hepatitis that nearly killed her.  The steroids made her fat and she was worried I would leave her.  But me?  I'm committed (or should be!) and I love the woman, the intelligence...I loved her.

And after all that, she doesn't have enough respect, or case, or love, to talk with me, care about the mess she has created and left behind her, or communicate in any way - for some reason that is reasonable to her when in actuality, it is unreasonable.

And then she treats me in such a way that the love I have always held for her suddenly gets replaced by other feelings that aren't that.

Sorry for the waffle, but I'm just having a really bad day.

 

22 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Did I, or did I not, tell you days ago ages ago to have everything handled by the solicitors?! But you went your merry way anyhow. You think I gave you that advice just for the heck of it!  

Yes I was told, you did twll me lawyer-up and get them to deal with it.  I failed to listen and for that I am sorry, both to you and to myself.  But seeing as I am a nice person I didn't want to upset the apple-cart and cause a rift between us that I thought that that communication up-front would cause.  Also I was concerned about how to pay the lawers - still am.

I live and learn.

23 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Not one person here said otherwise, OP! Truly, for your own sake, you need to stop (now) this martyrdom thing of your stbx being the sole cause of all ypour woes. 

And:

Did I, or did I not, tell you days ago ages ago to have everything handled by the solicitors?! But you went your merry way anyhow. You think I gave you that advice just for the heck of it!  

And please, when meeting the CAB person, keep strictly to the matter in hand and write down what they say. Their advice will be objective (that is their job) so go with it.

 

I shall do! 🙂

[smilieman]

10 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I'm going to guess you were hoping to meet with her over coffee so you could perhaps try to convince her to come back. You maybe thought if she saw you in person she would realize the huge mistake she was making. Maybe if she saw how badly this has affected you she would feel bad and change her mind about divorcing.

This was the last thing on my mind and no, I wouldn't have taken her back and I won't.  Adultery is for me, the one-way door, the ultimate betrayal.  I was just hoping to keep things civil.

11 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Please, let the solicitors handle everything. No more "well, I just thought". It's all best left to the professionals. You're dealing with enough without adding to the pain by trying to see her.

I think I've learned that little lesson, loud and clear.  I would never have thought she could be so cold and callous.  Perhaps I should have been a bastard abusive husband to deserve the way that she has treated me?

[smilieman]

5 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

What exactly does this mean,OP?  Why would the letting agency cause you "problems". Provided they are getting the rent paid as and when I fail to see the need for secrecy. 

So, I can only think that this tenancy agreement is in her name only, and not both of you. 😳

I didn't want the letting agent to get the indication that there may be an issue with the rent being paid and start asking questions.

The tenancy agreement is in both names.

[LaHermes]

12 minutes ago, smilieman said:

I was concerned about how to pay the lawers - still am.

Right.  CAB will advise you on this.  Please tell them!

As for the rest of your text above, all that is in the past. Gone. What has happened has happened, and, if you are honest with yourself, was to be expected after the latter ten years.  "I did" and "she did" and all the rest is of no help now.  The practicalities are where you must fully concentrate.

12 minutes ago, smilieman said:

seeing as I am a nice person I didn't want to upset the apple-cart and cause a rift between us

Please don't go there OP!  There is no time for "nice" in the midst of the present spate of practicalities.  Right now "practical" far outweighs "nice".

And this kind of utterance makes no sense, OP:

""Perhaps I should have been a bastard abusive husband to deserve the way that she has treated me?"

I have news for you. What we might deserve in this life and what is often handed to us are wo entirely different things. 

You are not the first, nor will you be the last couple to break up, for a wide variety of reasons. 

"I didn't want the letting agent to get the indication that there may be an issue with the rent being paid and start asking questions.

The tenancy agreement is in both names."

Sigh. Why did I even ask!  Letting agents are not in the business of monitoring tenants matrimonial issues etc.  What "questions" would they be asking. Unless they are telepathic they cannot know what is going on behind your door.  

Try to get things into perspective OP.

 

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, smilieman said:

This was the last thing on my mind and no, I wouldn't have taken her back and I won't.  Adultery is for me, the one-way door, the ultimate betrayal.  I was just hoping to keep things civil.

I think I've learned that little lesson, loud and clear.  I would never have thought she could be so cold and callous.  Perhaps I should have been a bastard abusive husband to deserve the way that she has treated me?

No, no need to be that extreme. 

You can be civil by allowing the solicitor who she has to pay for to do their job. No confusion, no emotion. You just take care of yourself.

[smilieman]

1 minute ago, LaHermes said:

Right.  CAB will advise you on this.  Please tell them!

As for the rest of your text above, all that is in the past. Gone. What has happened has happened, and, if you are honest with yourself, was to be expected after the latter ten years.  "I did" and "she did" and all the rest is of no help now.  The practicalities are where you must fully concentrate.

Please don't go there OP!  There is no time for "nice" in the midst of the present spate of practicalities.  Right now "practical" far outweighs "nice".

 

I shall discuss with them.

You are right, I know.  I expected her to leave for years after she ran away the first time.  Again, I was advised to let her go and it is likely she was having an affair, but I didn't listen.  I wanted to believe that she was being truthful and that she wasn't seeing another, even though deep down I knew.  After 5 years I stopped worrying, wondering and we had a great life together.  After 10 years, I thought that we were alright.

Practical it is then!  I know that once I get my war helmet on, that's it, I'm in for the win.

I do wonder if my VM will go along with her now - that'll be cool!

🙂

[smilieman]

6 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

No, no need to be that extreme.

Sorry!

6 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You can be civil by allowing the solicitor who she has to pay for to do their job. No confusion, no emotion. You just take care of yourself.

Yes, great advice.  I could feel my emotion kicking in interacting with her, so now I shall take that out of the equation.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

There is no time for "nice" in the midst of the present spate of practicalities.  Right now "practical" far outweighs "nice".

Agree. Divorces are plaintiff v. defendant, not "lets have coffee, honey and where's all the paperwork you always do for me?"

[smilieman]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. Divorces are plaintiff v. defendant, not "lets have coffee, honey and where's all the paperwork you always do for me?"

Learnt that one that's for sure!

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately this has been going on a long , long time for the same reasons. Your untreated depression and chronic unemployment.

 

[LaHermes]

Leaving aside the practicalities of the present divorce scenario you have a fair bit of work ahead with the psychologist in order to address buried issues and build yourself up so that you can go out in the world with no further co-dependence.

It is vital that you address this aspect. 

[smilieman]

10 hours ago, LaHermes said:

Leaving aside the practicalities of the present divorce scenario you have a fair bit of work ahead with the psychologist in order to address buried issues and build yourself up so that you can go out in the world with no further co-dependence.

It is vital that you address this aspect. 

But I was already out in the world and I was totally independent.  It's just an unfortunate set of circumstances that were/are beyond my control that are a pain in the butt.

I agree that I become dependent on somebody, but we were in a relationship and it's not like I didn't have savings that I we used to bolster the income for a while.  I would work tomorrow if I could.  Just walking around the house today tidying up, shows me that this is not a possibility due to how dizzy I have become just doing housework.

I'm looking forward to the psychologists though, see what I discover.  Shame it's a bit of a wait.

[LaHermes]

Sigh!  I didn't say you had not been independently out in the world.

And I am not talking about being dependent on someone (that can happen in particular situations. I am talking about co-dependence.

I thought you already had a psychologist lined up through some organization.  It is vital (just as vital as the practicalities) that you see a psychologist asap. And yes you did say what they can cost privately.  Again, some are indeed prepared to scale their fee depending on the patient's circumstances. Do no keep putting it off. 

[smilieman]

3 hours ago, LaHermes said:

Sigh!  I didn't say you had not been independently out in the world.

And I am not talking about being dependent on someone (that can happen in particular situations. I am talking about co-dependence.

I think I'm being a bit stupid as I don't really recognize where the co-dependency is, am I being thick?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319873

3 hours ago, LaHermes said:

I thought you already had a psychologist lined up through some organization.

The NHS.  I should hear within 5 weeks, apparently it takes that long, which is a pain.  I arrange to see a psychiatrist tomorrow just for an interim thing to get something started, but it would appear I double-booked with the CAB!  Typical.  I have emailed him to rearrange a different time, but no response.  I shall call him in the morning.  I think he has been away this week.

[LaHermes]

The NHS. You "should" hear within five weeks!  Of course it takes that long on the NHS. I said so. I thought you had contacted some organization that has counsellors/psychologists on their panel. 

Believe me the psychologist will very quickly bring you up to speed on co-dependency, assuming you ever get to see a psychologist. Why this fixation with the NHS? There are organizations out there where you can get help. 

No, I don't think you are "thick" as you put it. But you sure don't listen to anyone, or you only hear what you want to hear.

Oh, I see you booked with the psych at the same time as with CAB. Do you have a diary where you keep a record of your appointments?  It's a great idea. 

So, five weeks, at least, till you see a psychologist (NHS style). Well, then, better do some reading up then in meantime.  

[smilieman]

So, now everybody is going to have a go at me.....

Early this morning, I received an email from the wife agreeing to talk with me to pass on information about the things I needed.  We had a very civil telephone call and I now am in the possession of loads of information for my claims and my CAB meeting in the morning, although I have to find all the stuff still.

As far as finding out about her intentions, she is to talk with her work colleague who deals with divorce, on Monday.  I told her some of what I had learned from the meeting with my solicitors (who I haven't instructed yet).  It looks like she didn't know anything about Spousal Maintenance and said that she doesn't know how she's going to do that then, so that will be a contentious issue, as will the paying of my legal fees as she indicated that she wasn't happy doing that by making a sarcastic comment.

I reminded her that she had chosen to put us in this situation and that these things are a consequence of her decisions.

She also indicated that she will probably start the proceedings off and that she would be looking for Divorce rather than separation, which was the only option for me, but I thought I'd ask.  I said that she would need to give a reason for filing proceedings (Unreasonable behaviour, Adultery, Separation - 2 years or 5 years, or desertion).  I have done none of these and told her that if she put any of these it would be challenged as it would be wrong.  She seems unsure about the whole thing and said that she hadn't looked into anything, either prior to or since, leaving.

I mentioned about the savings account being emptied on the Monday, after she left on the Sunday, and that all monies will need to be accounted for at some point.  She said that she had taken that out on the Friday, but it must have only been dated as the transaction on Monday.  I didn't believe her.  Banks wouldn't work that way, I used to write the software!

I said that "I don't know what she may have spent money on, but bearing in mind that all of your clothes and work clothes are in the wardrobe, all of your underwear draw is full and the dresser drawers are packed, I would assume that you have been building up a wardrobe somewhere else over time."  She said that this was not the case and that she only had 3 work dresses.

Anyway, she was hoping that we could deal with most things ourselves, but I assured her that that would probably not be the best option.

I didn't ask anything else, only the info I needed.  No why's, who's, where's, etc.

She has promised to keep the dialogue open, but I somehow think that she will go back on this at some stage.  Please be assured that I will be going through my solicitor also.

I also told her that because of the lies and deceit she was so willing to dish out, I now longer trust her.

So, that was that.