Dejavu

[smilieman]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What resources does the UK have for indigent or lower income people? There has to be some agency that provides free or low cost legal assistance.

I can't find anything significant.  The CAB (Citizens Advice) can only help in as much as offering a half hour legal advice telephone call.  I accepted this and have arranged a call for 21st June - earliest time they had.  I think it's just general advice though.

Since 2013 there is no legal aid available anymore for Divorce, unless there is physical abuse involved.

I called 7 lawyers in the closest city this afternoon.  The majority said that they don't provide legal aid and the senior partner at one of the firms said that most people "Do it themselves these days" and that it's "very straight-forward".

There is one firm left to return my call that states: "In 2013 changes were made to the eligibility for Legal Aid in family law. This has given rise to a myth that legal aid is no longer available for family matters. Legal Aid is in fact still available depending on the type of family law matter and subject to.."

so I would like to speak with them if I can, to see what there plan is. Everybody wants an amount on client account when instructed, this seems to be set at £500.  I can't even pay off over time, as that's not an option either.

I know people here have advised not doing this myself, but what if there is no other option?

It would appear that due to my lack of income, I should be exempt from paying court fees, so I am wondering if it would be pertinent to become the petitioner and state Adultery, seeing as I can file without fees.  Not sure what other implications there are further down the line though.

[smilieman]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ok.  Makes no difference in the long haul, since she's filing and the divorce paperwork is going forward either way..

However, it is unfair as she is the one who has been cheating and admitted Adultery.  Or is that just me being stubborn?  This will go on public record won't it?  Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth accepting this though.

 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

It makes it quicker. It's easiest to prove because of your chronic unemployment, untreated depression, etc. It's the most straight forward.

I don't know why you keep saying that I'm suffering from depression, I am simply not.  Unemployment yes, but not by choice, as previously discussed.

 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

You can go pro se if you want or can't pay an attorney. 

Yes I could speak for myself, however I cannot go pro se as this would mean that I will be re-presenting myself, rather than being myself.  When you are yourself, you cannot re-present yourself.  A big technicality in common law.

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Relax she's doing all the work. All you have to do is show up for court.

So you think that I should just roll-over and not challenge the "unreasonable behaviour" thing?  How the hell can I relax - this is stressful!  🙂

[boltnrun]

I used a paralegal.  Cost $300 all in, including the divorce filing and child custody, child support and settlement agreements. Never set foot in a courtroom. 

But that was in the US. I have no idea if you are permitted to use a paralegal in the UK.

[smilieman]

16 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I used a paralegal.  Cost $300 all in, including the divorce filing and child custody, child support and settlement agreements. Never set foot in a courtroom. 

But that was in the US. I have no idea if you are permitted to use a paralegal in the UK.

Usually here a paralegal would work under the supervision of a solicitor (lawyer) and on their instruction.  Not sure if you can employ one direct and I can't seem to find any information on it anywhere either.  As I say, my experience of paralegals is that they are like enhanced secretaries and help ease the workload of lawyers.  I know no more.

The divorce filing here is £550 ($776).  I have found a "hand-holding" services where you do the stuff yourself but then it's looked over by lawyers, but that's only for uncontested divorces.  If she tries to claim my pensions (which she said she wouldn't but has indicated she might in her email tonight) then that would make it contested, I think.

[boltnrun]

Contested would be you contesting, not her.  She can't contest her own filing.  She would just be filing documents indicating what she wants.

And that's why it's vital to get legal advice.  Her lawyer can couch things in legalese that would be impossible for anyone to understand who does not have knowledge of the legal system and the terminology.

A paralegal is not an "enhanced secretary" in the US.  They have extensive legal knowledge and can draft and file paperwork on clients' behalf.  But again, I don't know the regulations in the UK.

[smilieman]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Contested would be you contesting, not her.  She can't contest her own filing.  She would just be filing documents indicating what she wants.

I was referencing the hand-holding service.  They only deal with uncontested.  Yes she says she is filing, but if I change that to Adultery, then I think I become the petitioner?  I don't know.

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

And that's why it's vital to get legal advice.  Her lawyer can couch things in legalese that would be impossible for anyone to understand who does not have knowledge of the legal system and the terminology.

I fully understand this.  But the only way I would be able to employ a lawyer is to cash in my pension. 

There is no other way.

Previously, it was suggested that I go to see a psychologist.  I would have done this privately also, but I have no money.  So the only way would be for me to cash in my pension.

All roads seem to lead to the same place.  Then I will have no pension, as if I cash this is, then I will have to stop claiming any benefits that I have spent the past 2 weeks claiming.

I shall make enquiries to do this today.  I have had enough and it seems the only way that I can raise the funds to do anything.

I think I shall also request that she holds off on the divorce proceedings for a while to let me get sorted.  I have to find somewhere to live and sort my pensions out and I can't do all this at the same time - it's far too much to handle.

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, smilieman said:

However, it is unfair as she is the one who has been cheating and admitted Adultery.  Or is that just me being stubborn?  This will go on public record won't it?  Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth accepting this though.

 

I don't know why you keep saying that I'm suffering from depression, I am simply not.  Unemployment yes, but not by choice, as previously discussed.

 

Yes I could speak for myself, however I cannot go pro se as this would mean that I will be re-presenting myself, rather than being myself.  When you are yourself, you cannot re-present yourself.  A big technicality in common law.

So you think that I should just roll-over and not challenge the "unreasonable behaviour" thing?  How the hell can I relax - this is stressful!  🙂

You have no choice. She's initiating the divorce as the plaintiff and those are the grounds she/her attorney are filing.

It's not a criminal case. You are not on trail. . Do some research for your jurisdiction.

Don't expect attorneys to babysit you for free. If you want to drag things out, ok then pay all that.

Relax. She has proof of your "unreasonable behavior". Refusal to work. It's all about what you can document. And that's easy in this case.

You could spend whatever money you have fighting this and attempting to prove this or that, but this is a routine divorce and the sooner it's over the sooner you can relax and get on with life.

You're the defendant. That doesn't mean it will turn out badly. You've been married a long time and things will be divided, most likely in whatever the prevailing norms are in your area and for your situation.

 

[smilieman]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Relax. She has proof of your "unreasonable behavior". Refusal to work. It's all about what you can document. And that's easy in this case.

I get your point, but I have never refused to work - for the record, again.

So, I'll just sit back and go through the motions then....

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, smilieman said:

 I'll just sit back and go through the motions then....

Exactly. It's better than running around like a chicken without a head.

Making calls and to-do lists that all go nowhere..

Try not to get hung up on legalese. Try not to wear yourself out running down one dead end after the next.

[smilieman]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly. It's better than running around like a chicken without a head.

Making calls and to-do lists and a all to no avail.

Try not to get hung up on legalese. Try not to wear yourself out running down one dead end after the next.

Seems like a good strategy.  I just like things to be fair, but it would seem that she has other ideas, that's all.  I want to protect myself as much as possible and not be 'led' (to slaughter?) down the garden path and taken for a ride.

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, smilieman said:

 not be 'led' (to slaughter?) down the garden path and taken for a ride.

Oh please. Skip the martyr routine. 

It's a divorce that's long overdue. 

No one is going to crucify you. You'll be heard in court and stuff will be divided.

Get a grip. Your area requires grounds for divorce and chronic unemployment is considered "unreasonable behavior". 

You simply didn't work consistently nor had documentable reasons not to. Get it over with.

[smilieman]

38 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You simply didn't work consistently nor had documentable reasons not to. Get it over with.

Yes, I did have documentable reasons that I couldn't work and a diagnosis.

[Wiseman2]

58 minutes ago, smilieman said:

Yes, I did have documentable reasons that I couldn't work and a diagnosis.

Ok. Doesn't matter. She and her attorney a have chosen these grounds (there's a few) so it is what it is.

Instead of nitpicking and running around aimlessly, research what you can do.

[smilieman]

32 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok. Doesn't matter. She and her attorney a have chosen these grounds (there's a few) so it is what it is.

Instead of nitpicking and running around aimlessly, research what you can do.

I shall.  In her email she said that her representative would be writing to me with the way that "she wants" to progress.  So it doesn't appear like she is petitioning for divorce immediately,  So it will be interesting to see what her intentions are from the outset.

I shall reply to her later and wait for the letter.  Then I will know exactly what she is planning (offering).  She knows that I've had advice and therefore she knows that she can't "pull the wool over my eyes" too much from the outset.

Thanks for your input.  You're right, need to keep on-point.

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, smilieman said:

In her email she said that her representative would be writing to me

That's standard. Her attorney will contact you . Could just be serving the papers. 

Once you get that, you can figure out if you need an attorney yourself, can respond yourself or represent yourself, etc. 

 No one is "pulling the wool over your eyes"

. She's hired an attorney and is divorcing you. She doesn't make the rules, the courts do. Wake up. Divorce is a legal process not a teen breakup.

 

[LaHermes]

Bolt:

In U.K. 

"A Paralegal is legally trained and educated to perform legal tasks and offer legal assistance but is not a qualified solicitor. However, a Paralegal can do virtually everything that a solicitor can do except activities that are referred to as: 'Reserved Activities'"

https://www.nationalparalegals.co.uk/paralegals-and-solicitors-what-is-the-difference

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, smilieman said:

If she tries to claim my pensions 

Don't martial assets get divided in divorce where you are? What are you talking about? 

[smilieman]

6 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Bolt:

In U.K. 

"A Paralegal is legally trained and educated to perform legal tasks and offer legal assistance but is not a qualified solicitor. However, a Paralegal can do virtually everything that a solicitor can do except activities that are referred to as: 'Reserved Activities'"

https://www.nationalparalegals.co.uk/paralegals-and-solicitors-what-is-the-difference

Thank you for the link.

[smilieman]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Don't martial assets get divided in divorce where you are? What are you talking about? 

Yes, but she said previously she would leave them alone.  Another broken promise I suspect.

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, smilieman said:

I don't know why you keep saying that I'm suffering from depression, I am simply not.  Unemployment yes.

Not my words/diagnosis, yours. However your story does tend to change somewhat here and there. Doesn't matter. She picked grounds and that's standard.

"The reason for our split was due to the fact that my wife felt extremely overwhelmed coming home to me being depressed and out of work, with creditors on our backs and the house being threatened to be taken from us, it was a tough time, still is".

[smilieman]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Not my words/diagnosis, yours. However your story does tend to change somewhat here and there. Doesn't matter. She picked grounds and that's standard.

"The reason for our split was due to the fact that my wife felt extremely overwhelmed coming home to me being depressed and out of work, with creditors on our backs and the house being threatened to be taken from us, it was a tough time, still is".

That was an original quote from the first time - 2011.  I started contract work, wasn't fed up anymore and we did the house up and sold it to clear the mortgage debt, some 4 years later.

I haven't been depressed for 10 years!

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, smilieman said:

I haven't been depressed for 10 years

Excellent. Now you can focus on whatever it is you need to do to respond to the divorce.

[boltnrun]

40 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Bolt:

In U.K. 

"A Paralegal is legally trained and educated to perform legal tasks and offer legal assistance but is not a qualified solicitor. However, a Paralegal can do virtually everything that a solicitor can do except activities that are referred to as: 'Reserved Activities'"

https://www.nationalparalegals.co.uk/paralegals-and-solicitors-what-is-the-difference

So not an "enhanced secretary".

I didn't read the link. Can a paralegal review legal documents for a client and give the client a summary?

[LaHermes]

Bolt:

"So when might you use the services of a paralegal?

If someone takes you to court claiming that you allegedly owe them money and you need to defend yourself

If you need to take someone to court and need assistance with regard to the process

If you have been arrested for a minor criminal offence and need representation. Many paralegals are what is known as ‘Police Station Accredited’ and that means that they can be called out to assist you at a police station

If you need assistance in a Matrimonial matter

If you wish to take action against your employer through a Tribunal

To assist you in writing a Will or to obtain a Lasting Power of Attorney in respect of a relative

To assist you in a housing matter

To assist you with any welfare matter"

"Paralegals duties are widely varied depending on experience and area of specialism, however the responsibilities of a paralegal may include:

writing letters, emails and speaking to clients on the phone

researching the law, and published legal articles online and hard copy

looking after diaries

compiling bundles of documents for court cases

creating and organising case files

filing documents at court

attending small claims court on behalf of clients

attending tribunals on behalf of clients

writing reports on cases

interviewing witnesses including expert witnesses

drafting instructions to counsel "

"As Paralegals can offer legal assistance, it is vital they are educated and trained in legal systems, legal procedure and trained to perform legal tasks. There are many routes into a paralegal career, but many employers look for recognised Paralegal training and qualifications.

NALP Paralegal practice award, certificate, diploma

Postgraduate paralegal diploma 

a Law Degree

An award in legal studies

 

 

[smilieman]

So, for reference I came across this article, which suits more than 'waws', it's Spousal Abandonment Syndrome and reading this is spot on (obviously with the roles reversed).

https://www.marriage.com/advice/counseling/know-about-spousal-abandonment-syndrome/

Wow - didn't know there was such a thing.

Was waiting for a call back from a legal firm today - they didn't ring.  Waiting for another call from a company supplying free legal advice over the phone - No call.

Had a chat with Pension company today and I can transfer my pension to a different plan and take 25% out tax-free and keep the rest in there to grow.  So that should pay for my legal fees, but it's going to take at least 6 weeks to process.  I have a telephone meeting 22 June.  So it seems like I can't move on things at least until then.

Shall respond to the wife's email later, saying that I shall await the contact from her work colleague with regard to her intentions on filing and tackling finances, as she mentioned.  It may trigger her to supply more information.