She's Coming to Drop Off my Stuff

[Careerchoice]

Well I would definitely not have been happy, BUT I would have contained whatever anxiety (or in your case, anger) I was feeling and respected that he didn't want to talk at that moment, and waited for him to contact me to discuss.

 

Tried to contain my anxiety about it in the meantime.

 

I don't lose my **** and don't appreciate when men do either, in fact I find it a major turn off.

 

Doing so serves NO good purpose, as you quickly discovered afterwards.

 

Respect your partner's boundaries even if doing so causes you anxiety and discomfort.

 

So aside from enduring a sleepless night, here's another wrinkle. A few weeks prior, I messaged her early in the morning that there was something I wanted to talk to her about, but I couldn't talk to her about it at the moment because I was playing basketball. So I had to wait an hour and a half to talk to her about it. She said I can't do that because she couldn't handle the anxiety it causes. I immediately agreed with her and promised that I wouldn't do it again. And I won't. Seems a bit hypocritical to ask me to abide by that request that she essentially broke with me.

[Careerchoice]

Wasn’t she recovering from the flu and have her kids who she hadn’t seen in a bit?

 

No, that was the previous day. She was well enough when I brought up this issue.

[boltnrun]

So aside from enduring a sleepless night, here's another wrinkle. A few weeks prior, I messaged her early in the morning that there was something I wanted to talk to her about, but I couldn't talk to her about it at the moment because I was playing basketball. So I had to wait an hour and a half to talk to her about it. She said I can't do that because she couldn't handle the anxiety it causes. I immediately agreed with her and promised that I wouldn't do it again. And I won't. Seems a bit hypocritical to ask me to abide by that request that she essentially broke with me.

 

But now you want to "steer the ship" by saying you two should put off discussions until you have both calmed down?

 

I'm super confused now.

[Careerchoice]

That wasn't a threat, that was her not wanting to discuss at that moment.

 

Your own anxiety caused you to *perceive* it as a threat.

 

I can't agree with that. I'm sorry. Like I said before, if she said "I can't talk about this right now" or "I don't feel well. Let's talk about this tomorrow" or "I'm spending time with my daughter" or even "I'm not ready to talk about this right now", I would have been fine with it. But she had to throw in that she was having doubts about us and that's going to generate a reaction.

[Seraphim]

Ok, it seems like you guys have passive aggressive and overly aggressive communication styles. At 1.5 months this is far far far too many “ relationship “ issues and “ discussions”. She has issues from her past but so do you .

[Careerchoice]

Ok, it seems like you guys have passive aggressive and overly aggressive communication styles. At 1.5 months this is far far far too many “ relationship “ issues and “ discussions”. She has issues from her past but so do you .

 

That may be the case, but I'm willing to try and work through them if she is. All I can do is do my best.

[Seraphim]

Then I would suggest toning down the aggressive communication style it is immensely disconcerting early on.

[katrina1980]

So aside from enduring a sleepless night, here's another wrinkle. A few weeks prior, I messaged her early in the morning that there was something I wanted to talk to her about, but I couldn't talk to her about it at the moment because I was playing basketball. So I had to wait an hour and a half to talk to her about it. She said I can't do that because she couldn't handle the anxiety it causes. I immediately agreed with her and promised that I wouldn't do it again. And I won't. Seems a bit hypocritical to ask me to abide by that request that she essentially broke with me.

 

It's all in how you approach it.

 

She was honest, saying she couldn't handle the anxiety, let's talk now.

 

You said "either we talk "now" or don't bother calling!"

 

Can you not see the difference and how hers was honest and yours was controlling and hard-nosed, an ultimatum of sorts, a threat??

 

Also, why did you feel it necessary to tell her you needed to "talk" knowing you would not be able to until after basketball? Why not just wait until after basketball and then talk?

 

Of course that was gonna get her brain spinning a bit, come on.

 

In your case, *you* were the one who opened that huge can of worms about her not being as attentive blah blah, and expected her to jump right at that moment to discuss.

 

When she wasn't ready to discuss "right at that moment" you lost your ****.

 

Not cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What she said -

[Careerchoice]

Then I would suggest toning down the aggressive communication style it is immensely disconcerting early on.

 

I think there are changes both of us are going to have to make. Trying to pin this all on me is incorrect.

[Seraphim]

I think there are changes both of us are going to have to make. Trying to pin this all on me is incorrect.

 

You are the one here to address. She isn’t here to address. I personally find your communication style to be “ in your face” and I don’t know you or even know you in person . You may have developed the style from your past marriage . Dial it waaaaay back or you are going to have issues with people . You can’t control how people communicate . Period.

[Seraphim]

It is like you are hyper vigilant about being shut down so you hit 100 miles an hour right away before a situation even arises.

[Careerchoice]

It's all in how you approach it.

 

She was honest, saying she couldn't handle the anxiety, let's talk now.

 

You said "either we talk "now" or don't bother calling!"

 

Can you not see the difference and how hers was honest and yours was controlling and hard-nosed?

 

I see a huge difference. I made an ambiguous statement that I needed to talk to her about something. She threatened me with the relationship. I think what she did is much more serious so it's going to generate a different response..

 

Also, why did you feel it necessary to tell her you needed to "talk" knowing you would not be able to until after basketball?

 

I already told you; I agreed with her. I'm not perfect and as soon as she brought it to my attention, I promised not to do it again, and I haven't. Addressing it any further with her, or on this thread, isn't going to solve anything.

 

Of course that was gonna get her brain spinning a bit, come on.

 

Just like how her comment got my brain spinning. These two scenarios are analogous.

 

In your case, *you* were the one who opened that huge can of worms about her not being as attentive blah blah, and expected her to jump right at that moment to discuss.

 

When she wasn't ready to discuss "right at that moment" you lost your ****.

 

Not cool.

 

That's not what happened. I was calm until she threatened me with breaking up with me. You don't see her comment as a threat, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Careerchoice]

You are the one here to address. She isn’t here to address. I personally find your communication style to be “ in your face” and I don’t know you or even know you in person . You may have developed the style from your past marriage . Dial it waaaaay back or you are going to have issues with people . You can’t control how people communicate . Period.

 

I am not just saying this to shut you down, but people in general find me very reasonable. That's the feedback I've gotten at least. I just don't take well to threats and disrespect.

[katrina1980]

You know what? Nevermind.

 

It is obvious you feel justified in behaving as you did, so any attempt I, or anyone else, makes to open up your mind so as to understand her perspective is falling on deaf ears.

 

So good luck hope it works out.

[katrina1980]

 

I just don't take well to threats and disrespect.

 

Neither does she apparently, so best to just call this one a day and move on.

 

Others in your social group might find you reasonable, but clearly you weren't in this situation, so you may want to explore why your nature changes when emotions are high and you have intense feelings for a woman.

 

Good luck.

 

ETA: And again, she did not threaten you, she just didn't wish to discuss at that moment, she had her daughter and was tired, wanted to sleep on it. *She* wasn't the one to bring it up.

 

Your own anxiety "perceived" it to be a threat. That's on you. Own it.

[Seraphim]

I am not just saying this to shut you down, but people in general find me very reasonable. That's the feedback I've gotten at least. I just don't take well to threats and disrespect.

 

Personally like I said if I had this many issues and relationship talks in less than two months .. eh forget it! Also you want to control how someone communicates and have constant conversations about it. We can’t control other adults. If it has you this bunched up at less than two months I would say forget it . Seriously.

[Careerchoice]

I'm going to try again with her. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Seraphim]

Well, she has to agree and she may not.

[Careerchoice]

Well, she has to agree and she may not.

 

I am well aware of that possibility. Thank you.

[katrina1980]

I'm going to try again with her. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

When are you seeing her?

 

Sorry, I was really hard on you on this thread!

 

FWIW, I really do hope you guys can work it out. :)

[Careerchoice]

When are you seeing her?

 

Sorry, I was really hard on you on this thread!

 

FWIW, I really do hope you guys can work it out. :)

 

Lol it's okay dear. I value our spirited discussions. She said this weekend, so I'm hoping tomorrow. I'm going to throw out a text in the morning letting her know which branch I'm going to be working at (satellite office inside Walmart ) if she plans on still coming.

 

Her Match profile is still up as of today. She routinely suspends it as soon as she starts talking to someone she sees the potential for. That's what she did the day we started messaging. I viewed her profile and then suspended mine, as well as all my other dating accounts. The only way I'm getting back out there is if I'm sure things are definitely over with us. I'll put myself out there like that for her. Any potential "us" deserves that.

[boltnrun]

Haven't you already put yourself out there?

 

https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547552

[Careerchoice]

Haven't you already put yourself out there?

 

https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547552

 

She broke up with me and I'm single. I can sleep with whoever I please. Her dating profile is up. I have no idea what she's up to. We hooked up on the first night. It's definitely not beyond her to have done something with someone else at this point.

 

So continue to persecute me for some odd reason. There's nothing I can say to appease you at this point.

[glitterfingers]

I'm really sorry but I am going to have to echo what Seraphim and Katrina said. If for no other reason than to warn you that you may get into hot water again very quickly unless you have given this argument/break up its due consideration

 

Apologies in advance this is long, I don't know how to be anything other than thorough

 

That's not how it happened. Here are the complete facts of those few days:

 

I sense that her demeanor was different with me through text on Sunday just before noon. I did not mention anything to her that day. The next day I sensed the same. I waited until she was done with work and called her around 6 and asked her if we could talk about something. She said she was at dinner with her daughter. I said no problem. She asked me what it was about and I told her I felt she was not as engaged there previous couple of days and that I sensed there was a disconnect on her end.

 

I think from your perspective, this is a rational approach since it brings any potential issues to light before they get 'blown out of proportion'.

 

But consider for a moment that she might not have viewed things the same way up until this phone call. She was enjoying time with her family and gets a call from someone she cares about. All of a sudden she will have gotten a pang of anxiety that she's done something wrong which has caused you to reconsider where your relationship is heading. It's not just that you felt anxious, now you've made her feel anxious. Planted a seed, if you will.

 

I was very calm when I said this.

 

That doesn't count for much when what you're essentially saying is "I'm calling because we might have a serious underlying issue here".

 

She said now is not a good time to talk about it, but that what I was bringing up was not happening. She called me maybe 45 minutes later and I told her what I had noticed. She gave me some reasons for her actions, but I could still sense what I sensed. She said she wasn't going to make something up just to satisfy me. She also told me to choose my battles and criticized me for the delivery when I brought this issue up.

 

Did you ever find out if there was a reason for her to be seemingly a little distant? Other than what you've inferred.

 

For argument's sake, let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she was busy getting in touch with friends/family and had her focus elsewhere. If that were the case, well...yeah, she's right. You do need to choose your battles. I understand you wanted to preempt an issue, but what she said here is "You're not preempting something, you're creating the issue by approaching me with an emotional need in an accusatory manner". So, if she truly were unaware of what her actions were making you feel, and if you might have misread them, you've skipped over expressing your feelings on the situation and gone straight for "This is a problem and we need to resolve it asap".

 

Personally, I would like it if someone told me how they felt rather than "addressed an issue". Maybe the difference in approach is subtle to you, but it is major to the person on the receiving end. One allows her to provide emotional support, and the other requires her to explain/defend her actions and inevitably causes her to play into the formation of a legitimate issue. And as we will see that is exactly what happened.

 

I told her she has to stop doing that because I'm not going to sweep things under the rug; I'm the one who looks under the rug.

 

Why? I need to challenge you on this one. Why do you feel that you need to seek out problems and tackle them before they occur? When you look for problems, you inevitably find them, and in a lot of situations actually create them. People see what they want to see.

 

I'm sure this argument is an extreme example, but if I was with someone who did this all the time, I would just feel nitpicked and tbh a bit worthless. Nobody wants to be reminded of their flaws and vulnerabilities all the time. We go into relationships acknowledging that they may turn out bad, and no amount of seeking/tackling problems is going to change whether or not that happens. But I can sure as hell tell you that if you seek out problems you will find more than the next person.

 

Personally, I think this is a learned behaviour on your part and an anxiety response. I think it would be unfair to expect most people to share this approach, so you will find in your most intimate relationships it will push people away rather than draw them in. It upsets the security in the relationship (momentarily at first, but then consistently over time...)

 

Her other daughter was coming into the car so she wanted to talk later that night. I told her that was fine. So I waited about two hours for her to contact me until I reached out to her and asked her if we could talk some more.

 

It is a bit aggressive to do this, I'm sorry to say. You've already stressed her out, she knows there's something that needs to be dealt with. This is where I would wait for her to respond. But you were anxious. You were anxious before you even called her. She wasn't able to meet your needs in that moment, and you remained anxious. And, in a way, you then demand that she meet you where you are (mentally and emotionally) and I'm guessing she wasn't feeling up to that level of emotional drama that evening. She had other things going on

 

She said she was about to go to bed with her daughter and she doesn't know what else there was to talk about and then dropped the bomb about needing to think us over.

 

This obviously wasn't the first time you've done something like this. Are you aware of the way that your actions are affecting her when you do this?

 

I mean, you expect her to understand that the tone of her text messages causes you anxiety. Were you aware that your conflict-seeking style of communication was the equivalent of dropping an emotional bomb on her regularly?

 

I told her we needed to talk about it now otherwise don't bother calling. She said I don't get to say what happens when and that it's not Nazi Germany. I told her to take care.

 

That's a bit hurtful. She was distressed by this point and you've not only offloaded your own feelings of anxiety about the relationship onto her, but you've then said "And you know what, if you can't deal with this right now, don't bother dealing with me at all."

 

I mean this in the nicest way possible but...

It's almost like you were unintentionally bullying her to see things from your perspective and deal with your emotional insecurity. And I assume she's got enough going on in her own life that dealing with insecurity isn't always possible. People only have so much of themselves to spread around each day/week/month that there are times that they need space to recuperate before moving forward.

 

The next day we did not speak.

 

I think that's a good thing. It's usually best to let things cool off when they reach an emotional peak like that.

 

The following night, I called and left a message that I'd like for us to talk things over. I was not angry. I called around 8 and did not get a call back. She was intentionally ignoring me.

 

No..... I'm not sure I agree with that. She was ignoring you, yes. She was intentionally not returning your call, yes. But what she was actually doing was emotional self-regulation.

 

You can't see this but you're actually haranguing her with anxiety and issues, and she's withdrawing in order to keep her balance. People have a right to self-regulate rather than meet others in the emotional arena. There has to be a bit of push-and-pull, but if you push, you have to allow room for her to pull. You cannot expect her to push back.

 

Even if you'd been married 20 years you cannot expect someone to set aside their own emotional self-regulation in order to deal with your anxieties. If you've been in a high-conflict relationship it can be difficult to understand people who take an approach of conflict minimisation. It will seem like emotional rejection to you, but it's coming from a place of self-love and love for your partner.

 

The next morning, I saw her on Facebook messenger and asked her if we could talk. Once again, she said there wasn't anything to talk about. So I called her. She said she was on her way out the door so she only had a minute to talk. She was angry. I told her I wasn't going to be rushed off the phone and she had all night and all morning to call me back.

 

She's angry because she's being badgered. People get angry when they're being badgered.

 

She sidestepped that comment and criticized me for always giving her ultimatums. I told her she deserved them.

 

If you said this to me, my initial response would be loath. Thinking "how dare you" and "who do you think you are that you get to decide what I deserve." There's no sugarcoating it.

 

She went into her speech about how she wishes me the best, etc. I said goodbye.

 

 

Alright yeah, she was a bit more tactful about it than I was just now.

 

 

There may be other details in there that I don't recall while typing this out, but that's how I remember everything happening. Does this change anyone's opinion?

 

 

 

Of course. And I want to be flexible about that. I've been locked into doing it one way for so long that I deserve a little of someone's patience as well. I think that's reasonable to ask for.

 

Yes, you do deserve someone's patience. But I actually think she was being patient with you. Honestly, I think she was hoping you'd calm down and realise that you made an incorrect assumption and were acting on a false belief.

 

If I thought someone was overreacting and being unreasonable, I'd probably pull back a little and wait to see whether there was a change in them once they'd had a chance to think about it.

But your anxiety levels were so high that this wasn't going to happen. You need to own that. It's too early for you to know that her conflict style is indeed complete avoidance.

 

If you are determined to try again with her, fine. But don't ask her to change until you can say you've done the necessary work on yourself

[glitterfingers]

I'm going to add something, and I hope that you won't take it as a harsh criticism.

 

My overall thoughts are that your approach to problem-solving stems from your recognition that you struggle to take on your partner's perspective without adequate communication. If you can't tell what your partner is thinking/feeling easily, you will need to 'take the temperature' of the relationship more frequently (I do this too). So I certainly do not think that you are ill-intentioned.

 

But... in the same token, I reiterate that I do believe you struggle to take on your partner's perspective. And I think you've made a number of assumptions that you've acted on that have actually corroded the relationship. I am not saying you are entirely to blame, it takes two to tango. But I do think that you, in many ways, started this argument and then continued it.

 

Suppose I am right that you struggle to take on your partner's perspective. The best way to fix that is to talk less and listen more. And I mean truly listen - if she says there's not an issue, accept what she says and roll with it.