My girlfriend keeps moving the goalposts and never admits to the truth.

[dabuten]

Whenever I [42M] talk (not even fight) with my gf [40F] of 2 years about anything she might have done wrong (or not even, she just has to perceive it as an attack, even though it never is), she moves the goalposts, changes the subject, lies blatantly or just keeps going round in circles, sometimes even ending up going against her own initial points, visible nervous and distressed, but never, ever, giving in. A couple of times, after being exhausted of talking (and I guess even without realizing herself) has told me the truth of what's going on, but after a few weeks if I mention the subject again, she goes back to denying everything and raises her previous points (non-valid, as she herself admitted before, but it's as if she didn't remember).

 

I find this baffling, tiring and sometimes it's as if she thought I was stupid. If I make a passing comment like "yep, stuff that all girls/men talk about when with their friends", she goes "my friends and I never talk about unimportant stuff like boyfriends", when she's told me time and again stuff about her friends' boyfriends that they've discussed together.

 

It's as if she was always on the defensive, and if I try to tell her "come on.....", she gets entrenched, so I just give up and move onto another topic. But I can't find an explanation why, although she's is extremely insecure and sometimes I've seen that she lies by default, and not only to me. To her family, people from work and friends too. She's also been passive-aggressive in the past, although we talked about it and she understood (or that's what she says, she can be sneaky, agree to one thing then do the opposite behind somebody's back. Of course, she gets mad if someone does it to her). She's brought me food from her mother's house (a ton), once she saw I had thrown away some left-overs, and without saying anything, stopped bringing me food outright. When I realized it and asked her "why don't you bring me stuff anymore?", she replied: "cause it's obvious that you don't appreciate it cause I saw the leftovers in the bin, so I'm not bringing you anything anymore".

 

She's a very good girl, but it's like she cannot take any criticism at all. She's even jeopardized the relationship over this a couple of times.

 

Why is this? and what's more, what can be done about it?

[DancingFool]

She is extremely insecure and passive aggressive to the point of psychiatric disorder. This is who she is and either you can deal with that or you can't. She is not going to change and even if she tried, that kind of extreme takes years and years of intensive therapy and is ultimately rarely successful.

 

Also, she is not a good girl, she is a grown adult 40 year old woman. There is nothing to do be done about it. Either you put up with it or walk.

[Wiseman2]

If she is on the defensive, pick your battles rather than engage in petty debates for the sake of arguing.

 

All you can do is reduce your level of criticism and confrontation. Try to mention things tactfully and calmly and take some responsibility yourself for issues as well rather than continually point out "what she does wrong".

 

Coming on in offensive mode often will put people on the defensive.

Whenever I talk with my gf about anything she might have done wrong she moves the goalposts, visible nervous and distressed, but never, ever, giving in.

It's as if she was always on the defensive. it's like she cannot take any criticism at all.

...same woman?

 

]

[reinventmyself]

Phew. I've experienced this more than once and all I can say is, it - won't - change.

Depending on whether or not you are looking for a life partner, imagine a lifetime of unresolved issues and not being able to hear or understand each other.

It's no way to live and a straight line to divorce.

[moodindigo91]

Agreed with reinvent myself. People like this won't change. They have unresolved personal issues, and they know of no other way to deal with it than to make others miserable, particularly people they love (spouse, friends, family). They are habitual liars to the point of being pathological, they see lying as a solution to problems, they are passive aggressive and are excellent at turning the tables on you, they can argue and make logical points out of illogical information even in the face of direct proof of their lying or whatever, they are impatient, needy and rude and don't necessarily see or think that what they do is wrong but when it's done to them they can't stand it and become the worst kind of hypocrites.

 

There's no way to remedy this, there's no way around it. It's just how she is. I suggest you walk away from her... as reinventmyself said, it's not way to live and a straight line to divorce.

[Moontiger]

Dude, why are you staying with someone like this????

[ParisPaulette]

She's 40? Yeah, no there's no change in sight unless she has a near-death experience or ends up living out of a box under a bridge and somehow through some magic of the moment decides to change her entire attitude, personality, and how she handles people. And even that's such a long shot you'd be better off buying lottery tickets hoping to get rich than banking on that. I've seen that approach work all of two times on people who were abusers, one on my dad who nearly died before he gave up being an alcoholic - oh and I know about the guy who wrote the song "Amazing Grace" and his story from cruel slave master to religious man who wrote the famous song after surviving a near death experience. That's four I know of out of literally thousands upon thousands of people, all who were probably of above average intelligence to begin with.

 

That's not good odds for hoping someone will magically change, not good odds at all.

 

This isn't going to change, she has never shown any signs of changing, there's literally nothing you can do to make another person change who they are when or if they don't feel they need to change, can't learn enough from their mistakes to change, and have zero incentive to do so. She's gone 40 years of her life like this, her window for changing that would have happened in her mid-20s at latest if it was going to change.

 

At some point this is going to dawn on you and you'll decide to walk away or you'll enjoy the drama, feed off of it and wearing a hair shirt, and you'll stay because that's what you like. Or you won't.

 

The choice is up to you, she has already made hers. I'm really sorry, but if there were a way to truly honestly change someone against their will that worked and worked well our world would be a very different place than it is. But there's nothing, even torture doesn't really inherently change a person, it just makes them cooperate with their captor(s) until they can rise up and fight back or die. But people don't change unless and until and if they decide to do so and do it on their own terms. That little thing called free will, man is that thing ever a b**ch.

 

All you can change is you and your own actions and acceptance or not. You can either stay and put up with it or leave. There are no other options. Even therapy only works based on the fact someone chooses therapy, because they want to change.

[HeartGoesOn]

Is this the same girl you cheated on for 10 months? If so, your prior thread states that you broke up with her this past August.

[Wiseman2]

Is this the same girl you cheated on for 10 months? If so, your prior thread states that you broke up with her this past August.

 

]

[OldRomantic83]

Totally, 100% completely identify with this (check my story)... and believe me, people like this can be so stubborn and set in their ways it's unbearable. No concept of their own flaws, choosing instead to travel in circles, raking up old, irrelevant things from the past to change the subject and somehow invalidate your point, or deflect the blame onto you. I had soooooo many arguments that followed that pattern... I'd make a trivial pount and WHAM! - up go the defenses and here comes the attitude... often with very personal digs at me, my past or my family, anything to get a reaction.

 

You could try to get her help, but in ny experience this kind of person will promise you things until they're blue in the face, never act on it... then deny it and claim there's no problem, then the circle starts again. My mistake was putting up with it as long as I did, she ended up leaving me... in hindsight I should have taken the power and told her to hit the bricks for treating me that way.

 

Difference being, my ex was 21-23 during this phase, your girlfriend is 40... some major red flags there, as this behaviour will be much deeper entrenched. Man, you DO NOT have to put up with that...

[dabuten]

You should read the whole thread. We're now taking it very slowly, like beginning dating again from scratch. She's still wary that I haven't put my cheating behind, but I have, and things are going really well. Left the past behind me, I'm looking to the future with her. But now that I've managed to do that, I can see very clearly who I'm really going out with without blaming myself for her behaviour, I'm seeing the relationship from a whole different point of view. So for the first time ever, I can see how even when I don't antagonise or have a "go" at her, she is like this. On the defensive by default, lying preemptively. For god's sake, I've even realised that she has never, ever said "I forgive you for cheating". It's always been about her: "are you over the cheating", "I'm over the cheating".

 

Thing is, I do believe you can change people. I've changed people and people have changed me. Whether it's worth the effort or not, that's another story, but I thank the people that changed me for thinking I was worth it.

 

Also, I don't think she was like this before she found out about the cheating (maybe she was and I never had the chance to see it, or didn't see it, or didn't want to see it). Once, 8 or 10 months ago, after a long and exhausting fight with her about precisely this, she finally cracked and burst into tears and told me that "I could never be right about anything because I had wronged her". That's why I became so obsessed with her getting over the cheating and why it took me so long to forgive myself. I thought "She gets over the cheating->She forgives me->Happiness". Now I don't know, I think I've forgiven myself, and I don't even know whether I should put more effort. So, given that when we're good, we're really good, and I have fun with her and love being with her, most probably will give her a chance a few months now that I'm over my own stuff, see where it goes. Maybe all that happens is that she's very weary of me and I need to regain her trust from zero, same as a bunny you've hurt. I don't really know.

 

Anyways, this is good. The place I'm at now, I mean. After the NC I got myself back and saw that if we stay together, good, and if not, well, it wasn't meant to be.

 

PS.- I like your replies, you're constructive. Thank you.

[reinventmyself]

Possibly you didn't catch this dynamic because you weren't faced with challenges.

It's not a measure of how stable a relationship is when things are fun and fluffy. What matters is how you handle conflicts.

People do change but first they must acknowledge their part.

From what you descrbed, her owning her part on simple issues seems impossible. Imagine this a symptom.of a larger problem.

[TakeTwo]

Just want to share my experience.

 

My ex husband like this. In 22 years together there was never a discussion about something I didn't like about him nor if he thought I didn't like about him. Every time I tried to talk ended in him either saying I was doing the same or I am totally wrong. No matter the facts were twisting by him or it was a total lie. Nor it would matter how small the issue was. He also would start "feeling sick and upset" or even threatening a suicide during these talks. Then he would lie down with his back to me looking hurt and upset for very long time till I would come and hug him. So while having some feelings for him I was backing up because I was scared or sorry I cause such a hurt to my loved one. But doing that the resentment would keep building up inside me since nothing could be resolved. So eventually love has died as well as my marriage.

 

Whether it is a fear of punishment or anything else - I don't know. With this attitude I failed to get him to therapy as well. BWT, things got much much worse when we had our kids because life became more complicated.

[dave_1966]

This may be 'magical thinking'. If you were to ever have a legal dispute with her, she would be a nightmare.