Sexually Assaulted, was I raped?

[Capricorn3]

Perhaps it's time to seek counseling if you are struggling with this.

[Seraphim]

You are NEVER at fault for being sexually assaulted. Never.

 

However please please never drive intoxicated. Around here a guy wiped out 3 kids and their grandfather by driving drunk . My second cousin her bf was killed and she was almost killed by a drunk driver.

[1a1a]

Maybe legally speaking a drunk person can give consent but I've always been under impression at least on a moral level, no, a drunk person cannot give consent (even if, in their intoxicated state they are willing).

 

I hope you are doing kind things for yourself at the moment *offers Jedi hugs*

[SkellyWoozle]

In England if a man has sex with a woman who has NO IDEA about it and is therefore non-consensual because she's had too much to drink/too many drugs, it's rape. Bottom line is he was wrong and should go to prison, in my opinion. He can remember it, you can't. IT WAS RAPE.

 

 

And for those who say that the intention was there? Whether it was or wasn't it's still rape. A woman has every right to change her mind.

 

And for the person above who said it wasn't rape and just drunk sex... you are wrong. Of course it's not ideal to get so drunk that you can't remember anything but for a man to take advantage of that is disgusting. IT WAS RAPE.

 

My suggestion would be to go to the police. But that's just my opinion. If you can tell a friend too what happened or someone you can trust to not judge but support you then do that too. Am there with you in spirit. Hugs XX

[lukeb]

In Canada you can't legally consent if you are drunk.

 

That is not true, in Canada only if you are so exceptionally drunk you can't make a decision, only then you can't consent. If you are awake, conscious, and aware of your surroundings you can consent to sex.

[lukeb]

My suggestion would be to go to the police. But that's just my opinion. If you can tell a friend too what happened or someone you can trust to not judge but support you then do that too. Am there with you in spirit. Hugs XX

 

From what you told us, I think it would be an exceptionally bad idea, and would only add to the difficult emotions and feelings. This is simply put not a good clear cut case, you are just going to feel judged again but this time by the legal system. My advice, if you truly want to get over the feelings of guilt, be honest to yourself and acknowledge your part in all of this, and accept what happened. It is by far the quickest way to recovery to what happened. Personally I would only go to the cops if you had a clear cut case. If you are truly struggling definitely go see someone, just don't make the police your first stop. The cops have a job to do, and that is to find out objectively, critically what happened. There are not there to support you, understand what you are going through, and help you get through this. Which seems to me what you are after.

[SkellyWoozle]

And you are still at liberty to say "no". And if the man still goes ahead, it's still rape. I'm not being pedantic, but a woman can say "no" whenever she wants.

[SkellyWoozle]

This is simply put not a good clear cut case, you are just going to feel judged again but this time by the legal system. My advice, if you truly want to get over the feelings of guilt, be honest to yourself and acknowledge your part in all of this, and accept what happened. It is by far the quickest way to recovery to what happened. .

 

Feelings of guilt? "Acknowledge your part in all of this?" WTH are you on? At the very least she was sexually assaulted by this guy and taken advantage of while she was so drunk she couldn't function. MEN like you make me

[Doc Blaze]

Rape aside OP needs to see support regardless..feelings to the point of mixing pills and alcohol is going down a path that you dont want to mess with.

[lukeb]

Feelings of guilt? "Acknowledge your part in all of this?" WTH are you on? At the very least she was sexually assaulted by this guy and taken advantage of while she was so drunk she couldn't function. MEN like you make me

 

You think you are helping her, but you are not. Are you saying she had no part in the turn of events that happened that evening? If this is also what the OP believes, I think she will be a very unhappy person for the rest of her life and suffer a lot more emotional turmoil than she needs to.

[qwaspolk82]

Also. To those who said just because I was black out drunk doesn't mean I didn't want it, did you miss the part where I had texted him 4 hours prior stating no sexual things. I literally stated I did not want to do anything sexual 4 hours prior. He was not intoxicated. He had a clear message that I did not want to have sex with him. I was so incoherent that I was calling him the wrong name more than once.

So please, explain to me that it is okay that he put himself inside of me. Knowing I was so intoxicated I couldn't even figure out who he was.

I didn't mention this because I know the arguement I'm going to get out of it. But I have three bruises on the left side of my arm that my mother asked "who grabbed me" because they're noticeable hand print marks. As well as on my inner thigh I have marks that look to me like finger tip prints.

I'm not sure where they came from. But I do know I didn't have them Friday morning but they were there Saturday morning.

 

No one said because you were black out drunk does not mean you didn't want it. People have said that blacking out and being unconscious are two separate things.

 

You do not even know if he had sex with you. You have his word about it. How do you know he isn't lying? Did you feel as if you had sex? If you did, you should have gone to the hospital immediately. I know it was probably confusing and you were scared. It happens to most. But if you didn't feel as if you had sex then he very easily could have lied.

 

The problem you have now if you report it is this will become a he said/she said. It will be a very long, drawn out case. There is no physical evidence. The bruises aren't evidence of any type of assault or rape. I'm not being mean but I was a SARC (Sexual Assault Response Coordinator) in the Army for 2 1/2 years. I have seen all kinds of cases. If there isn't evidence it will be hard for the prosecutor to press charges. If they do arrest him and this goes to trial you are going to get obliterated by his defense attorney. Before all that in the questioning by the police for your statement, they might blame you.

 

Honestly you need to look at my first post and you need to contact a counselor or advocate at RAINN or find a local center. You need to talk to someone about this who is trained to handle it. Not random people on the Internet. The legal aspect you can do later. That will be the hard part - but you need to talk to someone. It's very likely that this guy took advantage of you in some way. Maybe sexual assault. Maybe not. If I were you I would stay away from this guy. Block him from everything. No contact. Or his friends or any mutual friends you have.

[qwaspolk82]

From what you told us, I think it would be an exceptionally bad idea, and would only add to the difficult emotions and feelings. This is simply put not a good clear cut case, you are just going to feel judged again but this time by the legal system. My advice, if you truly want to get over the feelings of guilt, be honest to yourself and acknowledge your part in all of this, and accept what happened. It is by far the quickest way to recovery to what happened. Personally I would only go to the cops if you had a clear cut case. If you are truly struggling definitely go see someone, just don't make the police your first stop. The cops have a job to do, and that is to find out objectively, critically what happened. There are not there to support you, understand what you are going through, and help you get through this. Which seems to me what you are after.

 

What was "her part" in possibly being sexually assaulted? She told the guy she wanted nothing sexual from him earlier. No you don't only go to the cops if you have a clear cut case. Even things that seem "clear cut" can end up getting muddied during an investigation. Yes it would be a very hard case to try if she went to the police - and likely the DA or prosecutor wouldn't file charges because of lack of evidence. That doesn't mean nothing happened.

 

I already gave her RAINN links that will help her find a center in her area or she can chat online or call someone. In no way, shape or form; however, did she do something wrong or have a "part" in a possible sexual assault or rape. Especially when she made it very clear she didn't want sex from this guy.

[Wiseman2]

Very true. Sadly the circumstances are basically without evidence of anything and the complaining witness (you) has no recollection.

 

It may be best to have a talk with this guy about what happened and why and reiterate that you feel you were taken advantage of, something "friends" don't do and feel quite betrayed by this.

 

After that conversation to set the record straight, it may be best to avoid him and cease the now nonexistent friendship..

We work together, for one. For two I had taken a shower 3 times when I left his house. So going to some one to report it doesn't matter now. I've erased any evidence. And me being black out drunk, I don't have a case. how am I suppose to argue with a defense attorney that I was raped if I can't remember it?

[qwaspolk82]

Very true. Sadly the circumstances are basically without evidence of anything and the complaining witness (you) has no recollection.

 

It may be best to have a talk with this guy about what happened and why and reiterate that you feel you were taken advantage of, something "friends" don't do and feel quite betrayed by this.

 

After that conversation to set the record straight, it may be best to avoid him and cease the now nonexistent friendship..

 

I disagree. She needs to stay as far away from him as possible. She already talked to him and he told her they had sex. He could be lying. He could be truthful. This guy sounds dangerous and probably is a sexual predator. She needs to avoid him like the plague. Otherwise he might take advantage of her again. This is based on my experience with cases I have dealt with.

[Seraphim]

That is not true, in Canada only if you are so exceptionally drunk you can't make a decision, only then you can't consent. If you are awake, conscious, and aware of your surroundings you can consent to sex.

Criminal code does not state if you are sufficiently drunk. Because sufficiently drunk is different for everyone. It states drunk. I have produced the criminal code so many times on this forum I could not even count the times in a week.

[Seraphim]

For greater certainty, subsection 273.1(2) sets out specific situations where there is no consent in law; no consent is obtained:

 

where the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant

where the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity

where the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority

where the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity, or

where the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity.

 

It gives a great breakdown of what it considers lack of capacity.

 

Lack of consent due to mental disability , incapacitated due to drugs or alcohol etc

 

If she can't remember what happened well that pretty much states lack of being able to give consent.

[qwaspolk82]

For greater certainty, subsection 273.1(2) sets out specific situations where there is no consent in law; no consent is obtained:

 

where the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant

where the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity

where the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority

where the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity, or

where the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity.

 

It gives a great breakdown of what it considers lack of capacity.

 

Lack of consent due to mental disability , incapacitated due to drugs or alcohol etc

 

If she can't remember what happened well that pretty much states lack of being able to give consent.

 

I don't know about Canada but it doesn't mean that in the US. Just because you don't remember something doesn't mean you didn't do it. I don't think she willingly had sex with this guy.

 

Let's say you commit a murder but you have no recollection of doing it. But the police find your prints, your DNA at the scene and find the murder weapon in your home. Pretty likely you did it. Just because you blacked out doesn't mean you didn't do it.

 

Being unconscious is completely different than blacking out.

[Seraphim]

I don't know about Canada but it doesn't mean that in the US. Just because you don't remember something doesn't mean you didn't do it. I don't think she willingly had sex with this guy.

 

Let's say you commit a murder but you have no recollection of doing it. But the police find your prints, your DNA at the scene and find the murder weapon in your home. Pretty likely you did it. Just because you blacked out doesn't mean you didn't do it.

 

Being unconscious is completely different than blacking out.

Both would be considered not able to give consent here. If she doesn't remember being raped doesn't mean she wasn't. That's what I was saying. However unconscious or blacked out you can't give consent.

[qwaspolk82]

Both would be considered not able to give consent here. If she doesn't remember being raped doesn't mean she wasn't. That's what I was saying. However unconscious or blacked out you can't give consent.

 

Yes you can give consent if you blacked out. Blacked out does not mean you were unconscious. As I stated in my story the first time I got black out drunk - I was conscious during the period of time I can't remember. The other people I was with told me what we did and what happened. Months later pieces of that night came back but not all of it. You can be conscious and black out. It happens quite often.

 

Here's another example: The three times my ex beat the out of me he said "I don't remember a lot of it. I blacked out." Convenient for him. He was on meth withdrawals so who knows. But he was very much conscious during the time he "blacked out" and was hitting me, choking me and so on.

 

See the difference now? You can black out and be conscious. You can consent to something and not remember it because of alcohol, drugs and a mixture of the two. I'm NOT saying this happened in THIS case but you're not accurate in stating that you can't black out and give consent.

[lukeb]

For greater certainty, subsection 273.1(2) sets out specific situations where there is no consent in law; no consent is obtained:

 

Lack of consent due to mental disability , incapacitated due to drugs or alcohol etc.

 

Just because you are drunk doesn't mean you are incapacitated. Incapacitated means you are not capable of making decisions. You can still be very drunk and be conscious and aware of your surroundings. The OP is living proof you can be black out drunk and capable of making decisions as she was deciding to get into a car and capable to driving over to her colleague. She was hardly incapacitated. You may have quoted the criminal code more times than you can remember, but I don't think you know what it means.

[qwaspolk82]

Just because you are drunk doesn't mean you are incapacitated. Incapacitated means you are not capable of making decisions. You can still be very drunk and be conscious and aware of your surroundings. The OP is living proof you can be black out drunk and capable of making decisions as she was deciding to get into a car and capable to driving over to her colleague. She was hardly incapacitated. You may have quoted the criminal code more times than you can remember, but I don't think you know what it means.

 

That is for the defense to argue the prosecution if it would go to trial. Based on the law, the guy could be arrested for it.

[Seraphim]

Here you don't need to be unconscious for it to be considered unable to give consent.

[Seraphim]

Yes you can give consent if you blacked out. Blacked out does not mean you were unconscious. As I stated in my story the first time I got black out drunk - I was conscious during the period of time I can't remember. The other people I was with told me what we did and what happened. Months later pieces of that night came back but not all of it. You can be conscious and black out. It happens quite often.

 

Here's another example: The three times my ex beat the out of me he said "I don't remember a lot of it. I blacked out." Convenient for him. He was on meth withdrawals so who knows. But he was very much conscious during the time he "blacked out" and was hitting me, choking me and so on.

 

See the difference now? You can black out and be conscious. You can consent to something and not remember it because of alcohol, drugs and a mixture of the two. I'm NOT saying this happened in THIS case but you're not accurate in stating that you can't black out and give consent.

 

You know how our criminal code works here?? Wow! You should practice law here then.

[Seraphim]

Just because you are drunk doesn't mean you are incapacitated. Incapacitated means you are not capable of making decisions. You can still be very drunk and be conscious and aware of your surroundings. The OP is living proof you can be black out drunk and capable of making decisions as she was deciding to get into a car and capable to driving over to her colleague. She was hardly incapacitated. You may have quoted the criminal code more times than you can remember, but I don't think you know what it means.

 

Absolutely I do. I am not a dullard. And I participated in a trial based on our code.

[lukeb]

Absolutely I do. I am not a dullard. And I participated in a trial based on our code.

 

What you quoted and what you are saying that it means are two different things.