Was this abuse?!!!!

[ParisPaulette]

Dear sweet lord, good that you ended things. Well done! Yes, this is/was a warning sign of things to come. You know it is. A normal man would have backed away and said, "Okay, let's all take a moment." This guy kept at you after other people were asking him to stop and he could have hurt you. And afterwards his "apology" had clear red flag abuser conditions attached to it of the "sorry I scared you and acted like a raving lunatic, but you caused it." Again, a normal person would be apologizing and saying they lost their temper and it's their fault. Not trying to blame the victim.

 

Hold your head high, look into doing research on red flags and understand that you dodged a serious bullet. And by the way I am sorry for your losses. Life can be rough and you just don't need people like that in it either. Be proud you stuck up for yourself and left.

 

When someone shows you who they really are, believe them. And he just did. That isn't normal behavior AT ALL.

[Hermes]

And a book:

 

How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved: by Sandra L. Brown

[buffy6956]

Good morning Rob... Tks for the message.. yes it is a shame but sadly i will now feel like i have to watch what i say or do in case of provoking you (unintentionally of course) and i dont want to be like that... I dont even understand how or why you became so angry??... I feel like ive had enough controlling in my life... Im gutted actually as i didnt see you to be able to behave like that.. anyway alls said and done... take care of yourself and all the best to you too xxx

[buffy6956]

This is what I sent him a couple days ago and I will now post his reply and also the first message he sent me after the night it hapoened

[buffy6956]

For what it's worth…. analyzing my own feelings at the time, when you were that drunk and (sorry to say) obnoxious, you became a totally different person than the loving and funny Jackie I knew and loved and who used to bring out the best in me. I couldn't cope with that, and it brought out the the worst in me. I am not making excuses here. I'm just reflecting on what happened to me.

[buffy6956]

Good morning. Now that the dust has settled a little bit, I won't let my pride get in the way of taking the initiative to tell you how I feel/felt. Last night you spun completely out of control as a result of your excessive drinking (hence the fact that you almost completely destroyed my glasses). I only tried to end your outrageous behaviour and get you to act in an acceptable manner. I clearly failed and I was feeling very angry and embarrassed. At that point I told you that I would walk out if you wouldn't start behaving "normal", because I couldn't deal with your behaviour anymore. As you carried on displaying the same attitude, I went home. I never meant to end our relationship and didn't say I would. If you choose to take as such and throw away everything good we have got going, that's beyond sad. As before, I love you more than I can say.

[Hermes]

Not a good idea, Buffy! This texting......

 

His reply to you was simply projection.

 

No further contact would be most advisable.

 

Buffy, you yourself said (in the post about the Budapest):

 

"........but i have to say that frightened me and i saw a very different side to him".

 

Keep well away from people who frighten you.

 

You got good advice as well from the other posters.

[buffy6956]

Can I have your thoughts on this and how u read between the lines of his text maybe xx

[buffy6956]

Oh absolutely not…. These were sent a couple of days ago and the last text I posted from him was sent on Sunday. I just wanted to show u how he portrays xx I will not and am not ever going back to him x

[Hermes]

Buffy. Then it is no longer about him, or analyzing him and what he writes, and now about you and your life.

[buffy6956]

Yes your absolutely right… I have been given the best advice possible and I thank you all so much for that… its over between us I'm never going back.. I guess I just wanted you to see how he portrayed things uses the words (angry, embarrassed… control you.. Etc) I wanted to see if u saw that too I guess…. Anyway I've already purchased that book from Amazon at a very cool price of £14.99 priceless in my opinion.. Happy reading times ahead 😄 xx

[Lucia Amman]

What a totally lame excuses is he making in his texts. He should have been crawling back to you and licking your feet. Instead he is saying what an obnoxious person you became?!

 

Thank god it is over. X

[RainyCoast]

buffy, they will always say that you caused it somehow. nothing you could ever have done justifies abuse. With abusers you can't follow the logic of it taking two to tango, the only way it takes two with them is that it takes for the other person to exist.

 

you got a portion of his disturbing behavior for asking a simple question in budapest, i suppose he also has some sick justification for that too. the sentence you'll frequently hear from this vermin is "you made me angry" as if you're somehow responsible for their turbulent twisted emotions and violent reactions. at your house he was violent. if i wanted a drunken friend to calm down i would not intimidate them and pin them down, nor would you, would you? i agree with the people who said god knows what would've happened if it was just you and him. there's no way he can justify himself.

 

i see you've gotten some great reading suggestions. you could also look up tina fuller and the out of the fog site. once you see this behavior is typical of very dangerous ppl his malarkey won't upset you so much because it'll be hammered into your head the problem wasn't you, it was him all along. there will likely be a lot of "aha!" and "this is exactly like him!" moments while reading.

 

have you blocked him everywhere so he can't keep upseting you with crazy making and gaslighting? Dear lord, that is some massive trash of a man that needs to stay out of your life.

 

Chin up, you'll learn the red flags and never fall for this again.

[4LIFEON]

OK,so I just joined today. This is my first post to read, My take on this is your date became out of control in what seemed like seconds according to your post. I feel an immediate RED FLAG here!! I'm a surviver of a violent assault by my husband. It can and does happen THAT FAST!! Eyes wide open, always!

[RainyCoast]

btw buffy,perhaps a personal anecdote this time:

 

on my 19th birthday my friends and i were competing at a world's championship.that evening we celebrated my b.d. in the hotel room and were all sort of drunk (before we knew it, it happens quickly for people who don't otherwise drink) and giggly. my friend sat on my glasses by accident and snapped them in half and drunk as he was he laughed for a solid ten minutes or so. not something a sober person would do. and i could've really used the glasses because we still had a few days of competing ahead of us and the cues to my speeches were in the tiniest writing on the tiniest of memo cards. but not for a second did i think i should yell, intimidate him or, goodness, get physically aggressive.

 

this guy does not behave even remotely like a healthy person hun.

[ParisPaulette]

Well my dear you've just seen an abusive personality at their finest. They do not and never will take responsibility for their anger. It is always going to be about how other people pushed them. And for the record, knocking someone's glasses off their face is not "destroying them." His response is very clearly overexaggerating what happened and he is STILL, STILL justifying it. He then ends it with a pathetic little "Sob, feel sowwy for me if you wanna take your cookies and go home" type comment.

 

No, you were still more than right to end things and walk away. Now, please just block and delete this guy and never let him near you again.

 

P.S. I did have my glasses destroyed when my first boyfriend, an abusive jerk, finally decided verbally and emotionally abusing me wasn't enough and he slapped me, hard, accross the face. My glasses split in two and went flying accross the room. THAT was destroying my glasses due to a specific reaction. And guess what? I was still told it was all my fault for making him mad in the first place. Never mind I had a bruise between my eyes and had to purchase a new pair of glasses, because after all it was "all my fault" that I got angry and yelled at him for selling dope out of our house behind my back then cheating someone who was calling and leaving death threats about how they'd burn the house down until they got their heroin back.

 

And this was the guy that every single freaking woman who met him told me I was the luckiest girl alive to have him. Yeah, Uh-huh, sure. It took him two years to get to the point of hitting me BTW. Up to that point he was just content to flip out and throw things and call me names. When he hit me that was my wake-up call and I ended things. Well, that and dealing heroin and cheating people out of their money over it. That too. But the truth is I saw the red flags long before that and chose instead to shout myself down and stay.

 

Consider this your wakeup call. And now that he's done it once, shown he isn't sorry, he would forever justify his future actions against "You are out of control, remember the time you destroyed my glasses when you were drunk.…"

 

Seriously, just block and delete and let this guy be a page in your history book that simply gives you the tools to recognize future idiots like that. It's what I did and as much as I wish he hadn't been my first I'm very glad he will never be my last.

[buffy6956]

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience parispaulette.. Bless you.. Thankyou for sharing that with me… thanks to all of you for your replies.. I truly appreciate them much love xx 😘

[kath]

"I only tried to end your outrageous behaviour and get you to act in an acceptable manner. I clearly failed and I was feeling very angry and embarrassed. At that point I told you that I would walk out if you wouldn't start behaving "normal", because I couldn't deal with your behaviour anymore."

 

Even though he *claims* he's not trying to make you responsible for what happened, all of this is him making you responsible. Look very closely at what he's saying here - he claims he simply *had to* pin you down, shout and intimidate you in order to make you "behave normal/act in an acceptable manner." He's trying to make you feel like he was completely justified because of something you did. That's a typical abuser excuse to do whatever they feel like - it was somehow your fault. They had to do it, so you would do something/stop doing something. And if you would have continued this relationship, soon you would have started to believe it.

 

I've had my phone destroyed by my ex - "because if I don't know how to properly use one," (that means answering it as soon as he calls, never having it on silent or turned off because he should always have the ability to check up on me to make sure I'm not cheating or doing other things he would disapprove of - like having friendships and you know, normal life), "I didn't deserve to even have one." And it was my fault, of course, because I was at a formal dinner at the end of a work seminar, so had it on silent, and it ran about an hour later than I expected it to.

[buffy6956]

Thank you for your reply and input... Absolutely spot on with your observations... When things are made clear to me from an outsiders point of view it's so good and thought provoking.... I'm glad he's my ex... I'm glad yours is too😀 isn't it so very sad how these abusers see things that others would deem as normal Hun x

[DancingFool]

Reading between the lines....it gives me chills. He took it on himself to judge what is and isn't acceptable and then to CONTROL you and when he failed he became infuriated even further. To make matters worse, he is still blaming you. In his warped mind, you asked for it and deserved it. That is just absolutely classic abuser mentality. They are always doing it out of "love" and for your own good and they are teaching you a lesson for your own good and they really didn't want to beat you, but you really weren't behaving properly and so he had no choice but to beat you. This is textbook.

 

As for the rest and all the misgivings you are having about the good times.....well....that's a huge part of the abuse cycle. Abusers will fluctuate between extremely nice and all is roses and pink clouds to beating you because you were "bad" and ruining whatever is in their head. The nice is what hooks their victims and why so many victims keep going back for more beatings. The nice is essentially intoxicating - he is perfect, and romantic and attentive, and so on, but make no mistake, he will beat you again. It's why it's called an abuse cycle. No abuser will ever come into your life and just start beating you. First they have to hook you and your emotions, then they have to prime you to accept it as deserved so you are so invested and so weak on your ability to differentiate right from wrong, that you don't run away from them.

[buffy6956]

Thank you for your reply... It's so perplexing to me???? Do they actually consciously 'know' there doing this!!!! Or is it a subconscious built in personality type thing...? I just can't fathom that they enter a relationship consciously thinking " yeah I'll date her...woo her then I will beat her!!! It's such a puzzle to me!!! How can us women, or how are we supposed to 'spot' this sort of thing from day one? It makes me feel like I don't want to bother even trying to date really... What should I look for in any future relationships do u think? Thank you so much for input it is so welcome xx

[buffy6956]

I meant .... Or is it a subconscious personality type thing btw

[Hermes]

It's a little more complex, Buffy. Not actually subconscious, but yes a personality problem. A lot has been written on the topic, and you will get an idea when you read that book you ordered.

The idealization phase is just that, nothing more, and the devaluation/discarding phase follows on in fairly short order. A sort of sequence, the way they are.

[buffy6956]

Ah I see.... This book is gonna be very interesting reading me thinks... There are a couple others that people have suggested which I'm going to get as well...... Will let u all know my thoughts once I've read them 😊

[Hermes]

Quite an invaluable article IMO, published more than a decade ago and done the rounds since.

 

link removed

 

Excerpt:

 

"Frightening Temper "The Loser" has a scary temper. If your boyfriend or girlfriend blows up and does dangerous things, like driving too fast because they're mad, breaking/throwing things, getting into fights, or threatening others - that temper will soon be turned in your direction. In the beginning of the relationship, you will be exposed to "witnessed violence" - fights with others, threats toward others, angry outbursts at others, etc. You will also hear of violence in their life. You will see and witness this temper - throwing things, yelling, cursing, driving fast, hitting the walls, and kicking things. That quickly serves to intimidate you and fear their potential for violence, although "The Loser" quickly assures you that they are angry at others or situations, not at you. At first, you will be assured that they will never direct the hostility and violence at you - but they are clearly letting you know that they have that ability and capability - and that it might come your way. Later, you fear challenging or confronting them - fearing that same temper and violence will be turned in your direction."

 

"Walking on Eggshells As a relationship with "The Loser" continues, you will gradually be exposed to verbal intimidation, temper tantrums, lengthy interrogations about trivial matters, violence/threats directed at others but witnessed by you, paranoid preoccupation with your activities, and a variety of put-downs on your character. You will quickly find yourself "walking on eggshells" in their presence - fearful to bring up topics, fearful to mention that you spoke to or saw a friend, and fearful to question or criticize the behavior of "The Loser". Instead of experiencing the warmth and comfort of love, you will be constantly on edge, tense when talking to others (they might say something that you'll have to explain later), and fearful that you'll see someone you'll have to greet in public. Dates and times together will be more comfortable and less threatening when totally alone - exactly what "The Loser" wants - no interference with their control or dominance."