buffy6956 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 After reading your last post I sat thinking about our four months together and realised (although) not at the time that the following were probably subtle but very obvious indicators of abusive personality... Instance no.1) we were watching tv a programme on obesity ... I said that I had put on a few pounds since menopause as used to be a size 10 and he replied.. " you look lovely as u are but I can see that it could be easy for u to put weight on so keep a check on it cause as much as I love you i want you to stay this size not get any bigger... Ive never been attracted to fat women and besides I like to have this gorgeous woman on my arm"... I was a little put out by this and remember it prompted me to put as my status on fb the following..."right time to hit the gym and loose a few pounds" to which my daughter replied.. " what!!!! Since when have u wanted or indeed needed to loose weight.. U look lovely just the way you are". Instance no.2) he is still good friends with his ex she is Chinese and lives in Holland and before I met him she had bought tickets for him and her to see Eric Clapton in London so was coming over for 3 days and staying at his... He asked me did I have an issue with this... I said I didn't like the idea of her staying at his flat but I trusted him and he knew what their friendship was about whereas my view of it was maybe influenced by my own insecurities... I will give him his due tho as he said to come and stay there too... I didn't of course as I didn't want to come accross as the jealous insecure girlfriend.. I did however meet her on one day out and she seemed very nice.. Anyway I then asked him did he have any issues regards me to which he replied .. " I don't like it that u still use your ex married name on fb as it feels to me that your somehow still connected to that part of your life"... Again prompting me to change it to my maiden name... Instance no.3) one day he came to pick me up on a hot day and I wore a strapless boob tube smock dress... During the day I could catch him looking at me differently to when I wear my tighter clothes so I said to him " you don't like this dress do you" (with a smile)... His reply was " no I dont... How do u know me this way lol... I don't like it because it makes you look wide around your hips and your not but it really makes you look wide".. I felt uncomfortable to continue wearing it so I changed into leggings and t-shirt that I had taken to his..re-appeared and he said "ah that's better" .. I said.."well I won't wear that again then I will give it to charity (smiling) .. He said " better still burn it and laughed... Instance no.4.. We went shopping and I wore a coat my daughter had bought.. Leather at the top to under the boobs then wool... We walked around shopping centre for an hour or so then on our way to car park he suddenly says " that coat is not good for you" I said "why" he said " because the top is short then goes long it doesn't suit your shape as you already have a short body and this makes it look shorter... If it were the other way around... Long body short at bottom that would look fine"... I felt embarrassed again and he then said " you don't mind me saying that do you as I just want u to look good and I'd hope you would tell me if you didn't like something about me" so I thought he was just being thoughtful... Instance no.5) I drove him home one day and he started a conversation about my 15 year old son... He started saying that my son talks to me like and that he has no respect for me... I asked him how he came to this observation and he said because he will demand off you like your at his beck and call... "How's that then" I said......he replied... " like when he text you when your at mine sayin mum when u back I'm hungry and fancy a mc Donald's"... I'm now uptight as this is my son he's berating and I'm trying to defend him but the more I try to get my point accross the louder his replies become... I decide to leave it .. Drop him off and go home.. Feeling so annoyed and questioning my mothering abilities and this then lead to me saying to my son that when rib comes over please don't ask me for things or if you do say please/thanks ... I wanted to share this with you all xxx Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ah, those light-bulb moments, Buffy. Hindsight is 20/20 Link to comment
RainyCoast Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 preach it, one of the first things that came to mind after having left an abusive relationship was i can finally wear whatever the heck i want again ( i do NOT dress provocatively but an abuser sees well nigh anything as provocative), not having to explain myself for normal things and no more hearing his word salad or adjustng what may or may not be said in company. as for, are their patterns planned...yes and no. two of the abusers i knew claimed they were always absolutely right with such genuine fervor that it seemed they were completely unable of self-reflection. i knew one who admitted he was a narcissist but said that very proudly and when called out on his b.s. was of course shocked and appalled, he had done nothing wrong, ever, it was always others. they have distinct behavioral patterns. we all do but not all patterns are healthy. a bulimic person will follow a very unhealthy pattern for example.let alone an abuser. -we are differently motivated. your motive may be self improvement, serving the community, helping someone selflessly and of course a healthy degree of self-gratification also. that would be normal. an abuser's motive could be to puff up a very fragile ego, gain adoration, control, posess etc. -the patterns would be different. you attempt something, it doesn't work, you take a step back, reflect on where you may have gone wrong, refelect on the circumstances, try an improved strategy and give it another shot or decide the goal was not worth pursuing. an abuser might do similar things except he will employ others as tools to his end, he won't reflect back on himself but blame others, he'll often not have breaks on and will obsessively keep pursuing the same goal, he doesn't do time out (except as stone-walling to punish you) but rather throws a tantrum or explosive display of agressiveness when he's not getting his candy. it's hard to understand because it's so....evil. i like the article about the husband who kept saying "you're looking too much into this, i'm a simple man". i thought it was punny, the wife concludes that despite this intricately sick way their cogwheels roll these people are simple in that they boil down to just control and validation of that control. here's a list from my bookmark if you want to find out more until your book arrives. you could also google Sam Vakin, he writes about narcissists and claims he is one himself but you'll find these NPD types all have a lot in common. yeah, to find out about about the sickness of an ex partner really makes memory lane seem littered with warning signs. link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed link removed Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Thank you for those threads I will take a look into them... Here's a more worrying thing... So I wake up this morning to a rather long text he sent me via fb... It worries me because he's slways said he's stubborn and in fact never makes the first move (his words) and he has not spoken a word to his eldest son in over a year and a half due to a disagreement they had whereby he tried once to make contact (asking son what his problem was with his dad) and now said " if I don't have to speak to him for the rest of my life then so be it its up to him now" this was when we were talking about this one day and I gently tried to coax him into making amends by saying " why don't u make it up with your son... Your always showing us his music it's obvious you love him " . Also his son had childhood cancer to which he recovered and I pointed out how he said he had felt during that time and how he said his world had fallen apart but he was having none of it... Yet he keeps on with me....!!! I will now try to copy and paste this.... What the hell do I do regards this... If I don't answer I seem like a heartless cow but I wish he had not contacted me again to put me in this position!!!! Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hi sweetheart (I hope you don't mind me still calling you that...). Once again I swallow my pride, trying to make right what went horribly wrong. If I wouldn't make this attempt, every time I told you I loved and adored you , I would have been lying and I wasnt. I hope you weren't either... The last 4 months I've been happier than I'd ever been before, and it felt like I finally found my match. Even all the colours seemed brighter and I thought we had a great future together. Real unconditional love... Yes, we had a few hiccups, but that was all in the process of getting to know one another's -and our own -boundaries and flaws. Nevertheless, I can't imagine two people being more loving and compatable than us. It would be such a waste, to throw it all away because of one incident, however disturbing it may have seemed at the time. I'm sure you've been struggling with the same thoughts. Although I might not be the knight in shining armour you thought I was - I am a normal guy and I make mistakes - I am not the person you saw last... not aggressive, not controlling, but loving and committed to make you as happy as I can. I simply can't believe that the past 4 months have been a complete lie. I can say, that I love you with all my heart and that I accept your flaws. The question is, are you ready to accept the fact that, I'm not perfect? This may well be our last shot at real happiness ( we're not 18 anymore)... I'm willing to fight for it! Are you? Link to comment
RainyCoast Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 he won't stop with you because he needs a victim. idealize-devalue-brainwash-discard-lovebomb-validate control- rinse and repeat. even his child is not worth a genuine relationship. but his work is good bragging material. smh. blockblockblock Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Buffy, please delete or block the FB and any other way he has of contacting you. It is the only way you will get some peace of mind. Link to comment
kath Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Oh, that's such a classic one! I've received many of those ones (when I wasn't being threatened with suicide or yelled at and treated to all manner of horrible words). For a long time, I got those messages and all the rest of the crap every single day. It was all the same ("do you really want to throw away everything we had," "are you really so heartless," "what ever happened to forgiveness," "I can change, I'll never do anything like that again"). Until I got therapy and realised that I can just block him and don't need to respond. My mind is reeling because there is just too much I want to write to you. I'll try to maintain some focus! First off, you DO NOT have to write anything at all back to him. You don't owe it to him. It is really much better to delete everything and block him, so he can't do this to you again. The feeling of "why did he have to send this message to me, now I feel so bad" is there because that's exactly what he was going for. The entire message is clever and manipulative. It's playing on your feelings for him, trying to get you to focus on the good times and forget everything else. Trying to manipulate you into believing that if you don't get back together with him now, it'll be too late for you to meet another man and be happy. He's wrong. You already said you'd feel heartless if you didn't respond and that's exactly his goal. To make you feel like you owe it to him to respond and to perhaps give him another chance. So he's only a man, only human and made a mistake and now it's time for you to forgive and forget and pretend it never happened, so you two can live happily ever after? I'll tell you what mistakes are. Getting you an espresso when you wanted a latte, that's a mistake. Being half an hour late to a date because he mixed up the time you were supposed to meet, that's a mistake. Pinning you down, yelling at you while grabbing your face WHILE YOU AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE ASKING HIM TO STOP is not a mistake. That's him showing you his real colours, that's him giving you your first physical warning of what's to come if you ever do anything he won't like or behave "in an unacceptable manner." And now he's trying to make you believe that it was just a small mistake. Read between the lines again - he's very clearly telling you to believe what he's saying, not what he did. He's saying that you shouldn't focus on the one incident, instead believe what he's telling you now when he's trying to get you back under his control. I say words are cheap, especially if there's an ulterior motive. His actions have spoken louder than words! He's telling you that "he accepts your flaws." This is oh-so-clever, this way you'll think of potential mistakes you might have committed and trying to get your sympathy. Yes, you probably have made mistakes, we all do. But I already told you what I think are mistakes and his was something else. Bringing up your flaws or mistakes is irrelevant! You didn't do anything wrong, he did, and he should apologise, not make excuses! I don't really see an apology anywhere in the message, only an "attempt to make it right," which includes you just forgiving and forgetting and resuming the relationship. The relationship I'm in now, even when my partner is very upset about something, tired or angry, he has never once lifted a finger to me or threatened doing that. He's not perfect either, none of us are, but what your ex did is unacceptable and would have only got worse. you can take my word for it. I was in a horrible relationship, abused and controlled, for 6 years. I know you feel horrible and want to say something, but I'd advise against it. If you really have to, write something short and non-emotional, like "I appreciate you taking the time to send me this message, but we're over, so please do not contact me again." I'll write later in response to your earlier question of why and how they do it, and comment on the other things you've mentioned. Link to comment
kath Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I think all of the earlier signs of abuse you have found, thinking back on your time together, are relevant. Your own daughter, who presumably knows you well, remarked how it's untypical of you to worry about your weight. Why did you suddenly start doing that? Because your partner had been making very sly comments about your body and the clothes you wear, all the while claiming he was just trying to be helpful and thoughtful! He told you that he likes having a beautiful looking woman at his side. So there it is, him telling you that your worth is all about how you make him look good, so you should never put on a pound because it reflects badly on him! Just think about how sick that really is... And the stuff about your son is very troubling too. I bet you notice now how you were already starting to change your behaviours because of his comments. You told your son that he shouldn't ask for things when your partner is around, because it might upset him. You started to question your parenting skills and what your son should or shouldn't do. That's exactly how abusers manipulate people. No abuser starts off just hitting or punching, these sorts of comments are the start. They're telling you that they know best, that they're an expert of everything and you should always trust what they say over what your own gut and instinct is telling you. It's a powerful mind-trick and day by day, you lose your confidence and stop trusting yourself. This was your son he was talking about! Why does Rob get to suddenly decide how you should raise your own child and what he can or cannot request of you? These things are sadly very difficult to notice at first. In hindsight is so much easer to untangle them all. It took me a long time to realise what my ex was doing and just how much I was changing everything about myself and my life, in order to accommodate him. Feel free to look up my thread if you want to see what it was like for me. But on hindsight, I believe that the first signs were present not years into the relationship, but mere months. I just didn't know these things were sings of abuse to come. As for why and how they do it: no, I don't think they do it consciously and in a planned way. They don't sit behind a desk and list all the strategies and keep a diary of your reactions to see what they should try next. If Lundy Bancroft is to be believed (and I personally do), it's because of the basic core beliefs and attitudes of people like that. He writes in his book "Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" that abusers have a sense of entitlement. it is not just being very selfish, it's much more. They literally believe deep down inside that they're just better than others and other people are essentially there just to make sure their every need is met. They don't see other people the way we do, as individuals worth knowing and caring about, but only useful resources to be used when needed, with no regard to their feelings. They can certainly appear lovely and nice, but only if it serves a purpose. They will "act nice" because they know that it makes other people bond to them and it's much easier to control someone who's bonded to you and trusts you. That's why in the beginning of a relationship men like that are over-the-top sweet and nice and push for quick engagement and don't give you time to breathe. They're just trying to get the first bit over with so that they can get down to the real business. A normal man would be cautious and want to make sure you're the one they want and are compatable with. You seemed puzzled at why he sent you the message, when he was prepared never to talk to his son again just to make the point of not contacting first. That's exactly why. He has an objective - you're starting to slip away and he needs you back. He'll do or say whatever he thinks will work on you to make sure he has you back where he thinks you belong - serving him and making him look good. He's like a 3-year old child in a store when his parents have told him that he can't have the toy he wants. He'll try all techniques - crying, begging, going on and on about it, anything at all. Because if there's one thing people like that can't stand, it's not being in control. It's not getting what they think is theirs and they're entitled to. He hates it that you have a mind of your own and have made an unfavourable decision. THAT'S why he's suddenly writing to you! Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Wow... what a great post kath... very perceptive and an eye opener for me. Thankyou so much my love for taking the time to write back again to me i really appreciate it xx Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 btw before i got your last message kath i had replied.... I put hi.. tks for the message but this isnt about love rob its about trust and me not having that for you anymore after budapest and barbeque so sorry but there is no future for us and i will now post you his reply ( to which im not going to answer and shouldnt of answered the last one.. if only id read your message before i sent it kath grrrr) Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Thank you for your answer Jackie. I can totally see where you’re coming from, and I fully understand that you don’t want to go back to the life you had – and you wouldn’t. But, believe it or not, it IS about love. My love for you being strong enough to promise you, that something like this will never happen again and your love for me strong enough to trust that I will keep my promise. That things went out of hand at Nat’s was caused by a gross misjudgement on my part of how to handle a situation which I thought was about to escalate. I tried (wrongly) to control the situation; it wasn’t about controlling you personally. As I said before: I am not like that! Have I, disregarding our argument in Budapest and the ‘unfortunate’ event at Nat’s, ever tried to impose my will upon you? I am truly shocked, that you construe these two occurrences as a pattern of increasing abuse. Yes, I shouted at you and I grabbed your arms which (and I say it again...) was way out of line, but I’d never physically hurt you. I never raised my hands against any woman; not even when I got punched and slapped myself. It’s not in my genes...When I’m very angry, which is rare, I sometimes do raise my voice, which I know is wrong and I try to work on that. It’s what I grew up with since I was born (history repeats itself...). While we were in Budapest, you blamed me for always wanting to be right. I took that to heart, because that’s not how I wanted you to see me. I told you that I would never get into an argument with you again over a difference of opinion, because it’s not worth it. I am very self-critical and I am able to correct my behavior. Will I ever slip? Probably, because I’m not a saint. I am not religious, but as a person I try to be a little bit better every day; more friendly, more generous, more loving, more caring, more forgiving.....Many times I fail, but at least I’m trying. I love you with all my heart and I want to give you the world if you let me. I love you enough to work on issues I may have. Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 P.s. my fluency in English is insufficient to express my true feelings. I hope you are able to see past that. Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Why is he saying he grabbed my arms???? He pushed down on my head.... whilst i was laying down!!! hes playing it down.. maybe hoping i wont remember lol Link to comment
Applewhite Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Why is he saying he grabbed my arms???? He pushed down on my head.... whilst i was laying down!!! hes playing it down.. maybe hoping i wont remember lol That's the kind of guy who will stab you and say you "ran into the knife"... Link to comment
DancingFool Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Please block him from all means of communication. Also, please realize that even the slightest acknowledgement by you will be taken as weakness and an opening for him to press further. Overall, brace yourself because abusers rarely go away quietly. He will persist for awhile and he may try a variety of different means. It can be anything - guilting you into a response, extreme charm, begging, persistence, arguing, turning to threats and violence. Heck he may even tell you he is suicidal because he lost the love of his life to evoke a response from you. This is why it's so important to block him for your own peace of mind, so you do not get sucked into responding and giving him any openings to return. Heck, he has already primed you by telling you that he never pursues or gets persistent (which is a total lie, btw) but it sure does make you feel like maybe you are that special to him and maybe you should forgive him because you are so special. Please don't. In your 20/20 hindsight post above, you are correct. Those are all small signs of putting you down and exerting control over you. However, I do want to draw your attention to how easily YOU yielded to all that. Hook line and sinker. He told you he doesn't like the dress, you are willing to toss it. He told you not to get fat, you worry about hitting the gym for him. Your internal desire to please, you have to be careful with it because it will attract people like him. Not saying that you should not be a happy person who wants to please, but maybe, run some things you are being told through a filter. Like there is a huge difference between "I love that salad you make, do you mind making it more often?" and you wanting to please and doing it v. I wouldn't want you to get fatter than you already are because you are clearly prone to that so you better watch yourself. One is praising your skill at something, the other is hitting you right below the belt and putting you down with a subtle threat attached that if you don't cater, you'll lose him. The only response to that should really be, "well babe, then I guess you'd better be on your way out because I prefer a man who loves me in all shapes." Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Fully agree with you, DF. "This is why it's so important to block him for your own peace of mind, so you do not get sucked into responding and giving him any openings to return." Buffy, could I ask why you are still communicating with this individual? Surely you are not considering returning to any kind of "relationship" with him.... Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 TY dancingfool for your reply...omg I've been such a fool.. I never saw by accommodating him that I was fuelling his fire.. In fact a colleague at work today said to me that if he had said to her he didn't like the dress she would of determined to wear it more and now I can see she's right and so are you... I am going to strive now to become more assertive ... I didn't realise my behaviour could influence his... Naive and stupid or just plain "too nice" and Hermes.... No absolutely not an I ever considering going back to this man ... The only reason I replied to his txt was because I didn't want him to think of me as heartless or try to use my lack of response against me... But how I wish now I hadn't replied... I wish I had read kaths reply before I did message him back!!!! I'm feeling strong and positive now thanks to all of you... I will not ever contact him again no matter how insistent he may be.. Besides I've blocked him on FB ... Once again thank you all so much xxx Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Good for you, Buffy. You see, individuals like that play mind games. It is how they operate. Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Yes ... I honestly wouldn't of seen this tho had it not been for enotalone and all you kind people taking time out to answer and show me the way!!!! I've been looking at other threads and tring to help others too so alls good... Going to read Kaths story now xxx Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 By the way dancingfool... Just before I blocked him on fb there was one last message from him, it said " j have been reading through your message over and over again and do you know what? It's become clear to me that there was not much love there on your part in the first place and you can't restore what's not there so I'm not going to bother". ....,.. This is what u mean by ' guilting' isn't it? I'm learning... I think 😊 xx Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Buffy. It's called "projection". And yes, you are learning, and more importantly you will know what to look for in the future. Link to comment
buffy6956 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 I keep remembering things ( when reflecting on things) and this one perplexes me.... We got back from Budapest and I had the car ( needed it for work) but the following night I had to pick him up from airport as it was too late for trains (I hadn't seen him since getting back) anyhow, driving back he was holding my hand whilst i drove with the other... He squeezed it gently and said "wanna know something funny" ... I said "yeah..go on" .. And he said "after our argument in Budapest, I thought... That's it.. The magics gone now......... But it hasn't" he smiled warmly at me and said how much he loves me.... Now the reason this perplexes me is that he must of been worried about what effect this argument had on him/me/our relationship!!! Would this be something an abuser does!!! Do they worry about their actions?? I just don't get it cause this seemed like a normal response... One that almost reflected my own thoughts!!! P.s... Please don't think I'm thinking this way because I'm trying to make excuses for his behaviour because I'm not.. I'm just trying to understand it all tks xx Link to comment
winniethepooh Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yes he was abusive. You made a decision to leave him. That's fair enough, he has to learn to suffer the consequences of his choices and behavior. I don't think he deserves the crucifixion he's getting in this topic though. From everything you said, it sounds to me like he made a terrible mistake, not like a psychopath. No, I'm not a victim of physical abuse, so I defer to the judgement of those who are, that they know better than me if his behavior is indicative of a serial abuser. But I am someone who has lost his temper on occasion, and struggled to find it again in a hurry. I know the feeling of struggling to keep myself under control. I don't think I am a psychopath or a serial abuser, but I suspect I would be judged as one on the basis of some of the comments here. It has given me pause for thought. Some of his comments to you sound like typical Dutch bluntness rather than attempted emotional blackmail, and some of them were forthright and honest, albeit insensitive, answers to your questions. Anyway, he's gone now or should be. Don't entertain any more conversation with him. He's made his apologies, you've made it clear to him his behavior was not acceptable and apologies don't make up for it. Move on and leave him to beat the dead horse on his own. But apart from his unacceptable behavior, something else bothered me about your first post. but i realised i was feeling a little worse for wear ( had too many drinks) But i dont feel i did anything to deserve this as i did not intentionally hit his glasses or drink too much So did you have too many drinks or not? And if you did, is that something for you to be concerned about, or am I nitpicking here? Oh, and your last post, yes he's trying to guilt trip you with that message. Link to comment
Hermes Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Buffy. The truth is the less you dwell on the matter, the better. Also, the book you have ordered (and the other reading mentioned on here) will to some extent answer those questions for you. You see, we cannot in any way compare the mindset of someone like that with our own. They inhabit a different type of world, so to speak, in which they objectify others. What is fortunate is that all this happened sooner rather than later, and you can now put this grim situation behind you and move on. Link to comment
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