Career moms staying home

[petite]

Strategy 1: Basically he dismisses anything you've said or have to say. He doesn't even care to listen to your opinion.

 

Strategy 2: It has to be his way and if you buck that, he will take it out on both you and the children.

 

I'm sorry bekka, that really sounds awful to me. I really admire that you've stuck by as long as you have because it just doesn't seem like he values your opinion or what you have to say unless it is agreeing with him. It's good you're seeking a counselor, because he can help you.

 

Maybe you'd just be better off without him? If he isn't willing to make it work by giving his all, and it's all about how he wants things and is way...that's not right or fair. I really think if he would consider counseling it could help, but I fear he is against it because he knows his treatment of you is unjust.

[itsallgrand]

Holy crow, they sound like bullies. Sorry if that is an unfair assessment. But it sounds to me like being bullied in your very own home.

 

I agree it's between you and your hubby. I wonder though...is it really about your career for them, or maybe they (including your husband) is threatened by the idea of you having more influence in the house and with your own kids.

 

It sounds like having a communal village in the house and raising the kids, which is fine if that is what you prefer, but you are still their mother and it is still your home. If you want to prioritize and can afford to spend more time away from work and with them, that is your choice and I fail to see how that would be an option that is automatically ruled out.

[mhowe]

I actually fail to see how you need his permission to do so.

 

If that is your choice, then do it and when he gets upset tell him "I was willing to discuss this --- it is you who were not".

[petite]

Holy crow, they sound like bullies. Sorry if that is an unfair assessment. But it sounds to me like being bullied in your very own home.

 

I agree it's between you and your hubby. I wonder though...is it really about your career for them, or maybe they (including your husband) is threatened by the idea of you having more influence in the house and with your own kids.

 

It sounds like having a communal village in the house and raising the kids, which is fine if that is what you prefer, but you are still their mother and it is still your home. If you want to prioritize and can afford to spend more time away from work and with them, that is your choice and I fail to see how that would be an option that is automatically ruled out.

 

All great points. I really hate to even say it because I realize your family means so much to you, and you love them very much, but I feel like he just isn't being fair. And I fear he might be using the way he was raised as an excuse just so you do what he wants - work. Clearly your salary contributes a lot and you're able to have luxuries because of your salary which perhaps you might not be able to handle financially, if you stopped working? Could that be why he ants you to keep working.

 

I really think if you WANT to work, and if that's what you decide then great, but at least then you'd be the one deciding. I truly hope the counselor will help you with having a voice in the marriage and in your home.

[Catherine_3]

I don't think he realists he does this. He thinks he's very reasonable and the nicest guy in the world. He is actually far more reasonable toward me than toward anyone else in the world. He's like this with employers, police, his family, other drivers on the road... Everything is black and white and he is correct so everyone else must be wrong and, not only that, but it's his mission in life to administer justice and ensure that everyone is corrected.

[Seraphim]

That is almost borderline criminal behaviour. If some anonymous dude tried to "correct" my behavior or anything I did because he just didn't like it my shoe would probably be up his backside. He sounds a tyrant quite honestly. We all know "it's the way I was raised" is an excuse and a choice. I was raised by a father who felt food and medical care and necessities of life for children were optional. He also felt verbal lashings of abuse were motivational. Long ago when I was still a child I decided that's not who I wanted to become. I actively chose not to be that. So I was raised that way is a BS excuse.

[mhowe]

My dad was raised by 2 emotionally distant parents. With my mothers guidance, he became an openly affectionate man to both his wife and children.

 

Where there is a willingness to change, people can change the pattern of their upbringing.

 

Your husband, sadly, seems unwilling to change.

[Catherine_3]

I'm not sure where all this "he was raised this way" stuff is coming from. His parents are the sweetest people. They always get on his case about being too argumentative and unreasonable. His father is probably my favorite person in the world because he doesn't judge, he just listens and he knows how to speak anyone's "language" and reach them. His mom is sweet too. She always takes my side on everything, whether I'm right or not. She thinks men are always wrong.

[mhowe]

I agree that it should be a joint/partnership decision but when you're so far apart in terms of your perspective and how you're approaching it... And it's more of a ideological disagreement. It's not about the finances or logistics. At the end of the day, he doesn't respect stay at home mothers. He really, really looks down on them. That's how he was raised.

 

This is where it came from.

[Seraphim]

And it comes from the fact his mom thinks men are always wrong. So now he has to have a swagger and a chip on his shoulder to feel like somebody. You're taking the emotional thrashing he would like to give his mother.

[Catherine_3]

Maybe this is why I tend to "backtrack" on the forum. I feel like you say one thing and it gets taken to the extreme when, of course, people are multi-dimensional and there are several sides to every story.

 

When I hear you guys talking about my in-laws, I feel like you're talking about people I've never met. They just aren't like that. As far as my husband, he's not emotionally distant. He plays with our daughters for like 2 hours every night, he gives them a bath and massages our toddler every day. He honestly dedicates a significant portion of his life to making me happy, and to making the girls happy. He often talks about his parents leaving (they often frustrate him) but I am the one pushing for them to stay because I think they make a huge, positive contribution to our life and I'm very grateful to them.

 

Do we need to learn how to negotiate and argue better? Absolutely. But I feel like my entire family is being painted as these monsters and tyrants and I just don't feel like that's useful, constructive, or even remotely accurate.

[mhowe]

We can only paint with the pallette you have provided.

 

No one has called anyone a tyranant.

 

But the consensus seems to be that in your home...your voice is ignored.

IE....strategies #1 And #2 utilized by your husband.

[Catherine_3]

I think a lot of it has to be taken in context.

 

As far as women working: they come from a place where, when his parents were growing up, most girls didn't even get to go to school. And when they married, it was a polygamous marriage. His family has fought extremely hard against that and they are huge advocates for girl's rights and women's rights, and they pushed their own daughters very hard to pursue successful careers and not be set back. So in that context, they see a woman staying home instead of having a career as backward. It's giving up all that progress that they've seen and fought for. What they fail to realise is that, at the end of the day, a woman should have the right to choose. I think here in the West, we've gotten to that point. In their culture, they haven't.

 

Also, in their country, having a career means pulling yourself and your family and much of your extended family out of abject poverty and creating a future for them. At the age of 65 or 70 years old, are you really going to be able to shift your mindset to understand that, here in the West, you don't have to struggle so hard against poverty. There's less at stake. I mean, they know that intellectually but I don't think they would be able to process it to truly understand our culture's views toward money, career, opportunities, etc.

 

As for his mom thinking men are always wrong, it's also contextual. They come from a country where a man can beat his wife, cheat on her, all of that. Nobody cares. He's a man. It's his home, it's his business. My husband's family was never like this, but that's the general culture. So her reaction I think has always been to defend and protect the women and girls around her. She also had to fight for her own voice and place in a family where her mother in law wanted her husband to take more wives, etc.

[petite]

In their country....in their culture...But they aren't in their country, they are in your country. Perhaps it is time to see the world through a different set of glasses?

 

It's nice that he plays with the girls and gives baths, that's what's father should do, it doesn't make him anymore special than any other father that does the same thing, he doesn't deserve props for that. He is just being a father.

It isn't about him being a father it is about how he dismisses what you have to say and your opinions or simply doesn't give you a chance to even express yourself.

 

What his parents believe or think about stay at home mother shouldn't even matter or be taken into consideration. You're married to him not them. They are always welcome to leave.

 

See you bring up all these very valid examples of him not listening to you, and when someone says that's not right, he isn't being fair etc etc you completely backtrack and praise him for being a father a husband or son or whatever. You need to stop trying to build him up, and start building your own voice.

Judging by what you're saying he's the one that decides whether you work or not, what you buy and own and so on. Your voice isn't heard.

 

I'm sorry if you feel ganged up on, I don't think that's anyone's intention but it's time to stop trying to present the perfect life because no one has a perfect life. Heck we all have problems, we all have arguments and disagreements and crappy times - with out husbands and parents and in laws and friends etc.

 

 

 

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[Catherine_3]

I just want to be sure I'm giving an accurate representation of the situation because a couple people started talking about emotionally distant fathers, etc. and I felt like the conversation was getting off track.

[petite]

I can only speak for myself but I never once thought he was emotionally distant. I think there are clear issues with how he treats you, but I also think he care deeply and loves you. But is very set in his ways and seems to be unwilling to even try and change that. It is possible that because you've been together for so long and he's gotten away with treating you that way he feels that you just won't buck what he says and will always end up submissive in the end.

 

I mean it's not uncommon for parents (mother and father) to get angry, frustrated, or snappy with their significant other and children. I'm not saying that it's ok, but heck I don't think there is a parent on the face of this earth that hasn't even once been snappy with their child as a result of being frustrated due to some other reason. It happens, life isn't a freaking fairytale.

That however doesn't make him a BAD father, or an emotionally distant one. At least that's not what I am getting from this thread.

 

 

 

 

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[mhowe]

I just want to be sure I'm giving an accurate representation of the situation because a couple people started talking about emotionally distant fathers, etc. and I felt like the conversation was getting off track.

 

talk about taking what I said out of context!

I used my father because I am not married...and he was the product of his upbringing.

You are truing to absolve your husband being dismissive because...he is a product of his upbri going.

 

So, again I say...if your husband was willing to change..and not be dismissive of you..he could.

He is not willing.

 

I make no judgements with regard to his parental involvement and attachment.

[Catherine_3]

You are truing to absolve your husband being dismissive because...he is a product of his upbri going..

 

See, I would disagree with you on that.

[itsallgrand]

What does your hubby do when you go against his wishes/what he wants?

 

I mean, I really think it is up to you and him to decide who stays home/who works/breaking that all down as it works for your family. I don't think anyone else has a say.

 

Will he even discuss it with you? And when he shuts you down, what do you usually do?

 

I think it's very valid for you to bring it up if you are feeling like you don't have a choice or a voice about something! Without speaking about anything else, that seems to me something you should be able to do with your partner. It really sucks if you feel like you can't about something - and is it only particular things he gets so intense about? Obviously , from what you say, most of the time you feel close to him and like you can talk. It's only on some things that you feel like you are hitting a brick wall?

[Catherine_3]

Yes, only on some things.

 

When I've brought up the possibility of me staying home with the kids he just says, "that's scary" and gives me a look of disgust. Or he will say "oh great, why don't we all quit our jobs and then we can be homeless". That's as far as the discussion has ever gone.

 

So instead I've been working on starting up a consulting company. It's made some money but not enough to justify quitting my job. I also tried to find a job that would let me work from home. I interviewed for 3 jobs but they all denied that request. So I guess my response would usually be to go ahead and find a way to make it work for both of us. My approach is more collaborative, considering his needs but also trying to meet my needs. I'm starting to realize that he doesn't meet me half way though, so it ends up being me going all the way. And it's also not addressing the real issue that we need to be able to negotiate, instead of me bearing all the burden of finding work-arounds.

 

I'm starting to be more assertive, though. I think it starts with finances. I'm taking him off my account and going off his, and we will split the responsibilities fairly and, after that, each be completely independent. This will be a huge step. He is very unhappy about it. I guess we will find out how he reacts. I'm trying to think of a time when I directly did something he disagreed with, and how he had reacted. I can't think of any. That's scary. But I feel like he would be sulky for a couple days and then be fine. He doesn't normally hold grudges or get revenge or any of that. He is pretty forgiving.

[Catherine_3]

Ok, I thought about it more and I believe what he would do is find a way to sabotage it or get his way. If I ever do "win" on something he is opposed to, it's always a temporary win. Like he would take advantage of a situation that would enable him to get his way again. He would also use it as more ammunition to cut me out of the decision making process. Like "well, I can't involve you in these decisions because you don't play fair".

[petite]

Not only is he not fair but is manipulative. Do you really want to be with such a person? Do you want to teach your daughters that they should fold and be manipulated by men? Think about what you'd say to them if they ended up with someone like your husband, don't think about his good sides, or the good stuff he does, think about all the negative things he does and has done over the years.

 

He might be all for women working but I really think it's only because he has more power then It's for his admiration and ego. People can then say how hard working and intelligent his wife is; how she is in a respectable field and and earns a decent salary...and that will give him a huge ego boost. He doesn't care if you're actually happy with your situation as long as he is happy and it is his way he is cool with that. He gets to enjoy living in a big house, buying cars he likes, making all the financial decisions, and running the whole show.

I'm sorry but he really doesn't sound like someone that deserves you. Good thing you will be seeing a professional because you might have to decide whether staying with him would be in your best interest, and your girls.

I don't want this to sound wrong, but do you want them growing up thinking they should just do whatever their husband wants? I'm pretty certain he answer is not. And you know children do pickup on things like that, particularly as they get older. You want them to have a voice, and to stand up and not give in. You're a good mother, look at all the stuff you do with your girls, you deserve to have a voice and to have the option of deciding what you'd be happiest with.

 

It's hard to break these habits, it's hard to make changes when he has been that way for so long and is obviously very settled in his way, but the only way it can work is if he meets you half way. He doesn't do that, you have to get him to do that for your benefit, the benefit of your girls and your whole family. Otherwise you will still be here 10 years from now saying the same thing only probably depressed and angry and resentful because you missed out on making your own choices. Don't do that, don't fold, don't let him mould you as he likes. He has done far too long.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Catherine_3]

I was miserable for years - just consumed almost daily with frustration as I tried to fight for my place and he fought back so bitterly. I'm just thankful those years are over because they were hell.

 

At least now I'm happy. Is everything as it should be? No. But at least I've found ways to work around and just have peace. I want peace in my home so bad.

 

Lately he has been pressuring me to close my account and merge with his. Two days ago I told him I would be keeping my own, and that I wanted him to go off the account. He still isn't talking to me. This morning I try to kiss him and he just yells at me and points his fingers in my face. He's upset at my daughter's behaviour, but it's really me he's going to be mad at.

 

This was suppose to be a nice Easter weekend. I have a feeling it's going to be horrible for everyone.

 

Do I really want to take this on? I can't go back to the dark days.

[mhowe]

Bekka...if the account was originally yours...you don't need his permission to take his name off.

If it was opened as a joint account... then he will have to sign.

[petite]

I'm sorry you're going through this. No one deserves to be treated like that. Of course you want peace in your home, bekka. That's what we all want, no one wants to have problems or to be fighting with their significant other. I think the fact that he yelled at you and pointed his finger when you tried to give him a kiss says so much about his personality. This isn't about you, it is about him wanting all the power. I don't know about all the dynamics in your household and whether he is 'head of the house' but it's almost like that might be the case.

Definitely do not merge with his account. He's trying to gain even more control over you and if you allow that to happen then he's got all the power in every way. Look at how you delegate at work and how strong you are in a professional environment. You must try and stand your ground at home.

 

 

Do I really want to take this on? I can't go back to the dark days.

 

Do you want to let him run your life in every way until you have no say in anything? Do you want your daughters to learn that the man is the only decision maker. The only person that is right and whose way everything has to go. Do you want to lose your voice completely? Do you want to wake up a decade from now regretting that you stayed quiet, gave in and allowed yourself to be silenced? Ask yourself all these questions. Ask yourself what advice you'd give your friends and daughters in your situation. I bet you anything you would tell them to fight for their voice. To be strong women inside and outside the home, that they and their voice matter; their opinions and views matter regardless how big or small. Just like yours matter, bekka. You matter!

 

If Easter isn't going perfectly it isn't because of you, it is because of how he is reacting. He could (if he wanted to) sit down with you and discuss everything rationally, he could listen to what you have to say. He's had it his way for such a long time of course he will be angry that you're not playing his game anymore. He's losing control and men like that don't like to be losers, they don't like to be contradicted. The only reason you've found a way to work around and have peace is because you're trained yourself to give in to him, you might fight him or disagree but you end up folding and he KNOWS that you always will. He knows exactly what he is doing and past experiences have shown him that you will do as he wants.

 

You're not a slave to his wishes.

 

Would you rather life a happy life knowing you matter and that your opinions matter, that you're listened to and that your wants are considered. Or would you prefer to live in delusional peace (which you basically created by giving in and losing a bit of your voice every time you do it) where your husband runs the whole thing and you pretend it's all peachy?