Giving up on online dating. Seems to have gotten worse over the years.

[Blue Spiral]

but it's disingenuous to claim all "serious-minded" women want a guy who is 6"4 and makes $150k!

 

Well, thank god I'm not claiming that, then.

 

I'm simply saying that all women have financial requirements and height requirements, in addition to various other requirements. As such, it's disingenuous to just tell guys to "focus on the ones who are (compatible)", because some of us are compatible with very, very few people--not necessarily through any fault of our own, but because they have extremely high expectations.

 

As an example: I have a friend who met some of my FWBs, and he was wondering why I prefer extremely short women. I told him that I don't--granted, I don't particularly care about height at all, when it comes to women. But women my height were looking for six-foot guys, so I was stuck with women that were around five feet tall. It's not so much "you should focus on these people" as it is "your pool is limited to these people".

[savignon]

Well, thank god I'm not claiming that, then.

 

I'm simply saying that all women have financial requirements and height requirements, in addition to various other requirements. As such, it's disingenuous to just tell guys to "focus on the ones who are (compatible)", because some of us are compatible with very, very few people--not necessarily through any fault of our own, but because they have extremely high expectations.

 

As an example: I have a friend who met some of my FWBs, and he was wondering why I prefer extremely short women. I told him that I don't--granted, I don't particularly care about height at all, when it comes to women. But women my height were looking for six-foot guys, so I was stuck with women that were around five feet tall. It's not so much "you should focus on these people" as it is "your pool is limited to these people".

 

Blue you're usually pretty open about being a FWB kind of guy who has no interest in long term relationships. You probably meet the type of woman who is okay with that and therefore not seeking a LTR. I think it's unfair to presume what *all* women are looking for when you have targeted a certain demographic for years now.

I bring a lot to the table in terms of both qualities and fiancial stability and absolutely have some expectations in those 2 categories. And height matters to a degree. Am I demanding? Not at all. Do I have some expectations? Yes.

[Natasha24]

I agree - online dating sucks for the most part. I started about 2 years ago and I met some pretty nice guys - some I'm even friends with today! But I just got back into online dating in the last week or so and it's brutal. And it's not just because of looks. Not to "toot my own horn", but I'm attractive and I still can only manage to find duds. I'm not saying my personality is perfect, we all have our faults. But I don't meet this many weirdos in real life; I don't know what it is about online dating.

 

I think we would have more luck if we tried sites like Match or eHarmony, but I'm not willing to pay for a dating site.

[happpybear]

I think the media that we are exposed to in the past 5 years or so is part of the problem as well. There is heavy emphasis on looks especially in women. The only advantage that the media has contributed along these lines recently is that it accepts a wider range of ethnic looks that it did not 20 years ago. But let's face it, many people buy into the media hype and think they can have their own Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie.

 

Ya, I agree with this, and not just that people feel entitled to dating perfection, but people (especially women) aspiring to look like the just came off a cover shoot to get that attention! I am not OLD, but I am dipping my toes back into dating after a year and a half of being alone by choice. I have to say that when I look around me when I am out and about, at my "competition", I sometimes feel like I am going to die a spinster--so I guess it's a good thing then that I enjoy knitting already...

 

I'm a pretty low-maintenance chick and I like to think I am relatively attractive, but sometimes I feel so darn plain compared to the girls and women I see around me who are are all so done-up all the time, it's crazy! Who the heck has time for that? Especially for going to work? So much makeup, like women with cat-eye makeup and false eyelashes just to go to the office, hair blown-out and curled. Designer everything (but then, I work in the financial district so maybe that has something to do with it), like this is just what is expected of women now. This is just women out and about, not online, but I feel like you would have to try even harder and look even more like a Vogue cover model (or a "10" if we are talking leagues) in order to get responses online. Yeesh.

[kim1]

I like to call it match.hell. Have dabbled in online dating but I always get scared it is really messing me up in the head and I get off. Would rather take my chances and meet someone in real life but that is so hard too! I was on it briefly years ago and a guy at my gym approached me and told me he saw me on it. I denied that I was on the site but he insisted that it was me and I felt embarrassed. I continued to deny that it was me. hah

[Blue Spiral]

Blue you're usually pretty open about being a FWB kind of guy who has no interest in long term relationships. You probably meet the type of woman who is okay with that and therefore not seeking a LTR. I think it's unfair to presume what *all* women are looking for when you have targeted a certain demographic for years now.

 

Yes, I've targeted a certain demographic for years now (or I did until I recently gave up on the whole thing)...but I was referring to my fifteen years of finding women online, period, including serious relationship candidates. It wasn't *that* long ago; I can still remember how it was. I stand by what I said.

[goodheartlady]

I am going to sum this thread up:

 

Men with little success with dating are not here to seek advice. many responders have make good suggestions:

 

"Why don't you be more open minded?" A: no! I won't settle! I don't want fat/non-white/average looking girls!

 

"Why don't you improve yourself on this? " A: no! I am good enough!

 

"Why don't you stop pursuing a certain type of women?" A: no! women are superficial! All women require 6'4" men!

 

Guys, plenty of short guy with modest incomes have loving, kind, and supportive girl friends and wives. So clearly there are a lot of non-superficial women out there. You are just not looking for them.

 

In sum, a lot of people don't want solutions and suggestions. They just want to hear "it is the world/women/on-line dating's fault that I am single!"

[Iggles]

^^ This!!!!

 

Your whole post is spot on.

 

 

Guys, plenty of short guy with modest incomes have loving, kind, and supportive girl friends and wives. So clearly there are a lot of non-superficial women out there. You are just not looking for them.

 

In sum, a lot of people don't want solutions and suggestions. They just want to hear "it is the world/women/on-line dating's fault that I am single!"

 

Just look at any given playground on Saturday and see the assortment of couples with their children. It's not all super attractive people who are paired up. You don't have to be a model to find a partner! Average and below average people marry and have families all the time!

 

Now cynical folks would find the usage of the word "average" abhorrent but TV and p0rn has skewed a lot of people's expectations about the opposite sex and inflated their own view of themselves. It's not settling to date within your own league, nor is it settling to open your heart towards people who are open towards you. After all, to a person in love, their partner/spouse is a 10 in their eyes.

[radiohead20]

I am going to sum this thread up:

 

Men with little success with dating are not here to seek advice. many responders have make good suggestions:

 

"Why don't you be more open minded?" A: no! I won't settle! I don't want fat/non-white/average looking girls!

 

"Why don't you improve yourself on this? " A: no! I am good enough!

 

"Why don't you stop pursuing a certain type of women?" A: no! women are superficial! All women require 6'4" men!

 

Guys, plenty of short guy with modest incomes have loving, kind, and supportive girl friends and wives. So clearly there are a lot of non-superficial women out there. You are just not looking for them.

 

In sum, a lot of people don't want solutions and suggestions. They just want to hear "it is the world/women/on-line dating's fault that I am single!"

 

I think most people just want to vent, but behind that they want a solution. A small percentage, like myself, are outrightly frustrated because they have acknowledged that they are, in some ways, victims of the lopsided online dating dynamic that exists. Although one can say "well if you want it that bad, you have to play the game", some of us have principles and self respect and would rather not. All I ask (and a lot of guys) for is someone, at baseline level, who is around my level in looks/intelligence - beyond that things it depends on the person I want to see. however, stated time and time again, it is far, far, far more difficult for a man to attract his "equal" online than vice versa, almost to the point where it borders on hysterical. Therein lies the frustration.

[John John]

I am going to sum this thread up:

 

Men with little success with dating are not here to seek advice. many responders have make good suggestions:

 

"Why don't you be more open minded?" A: no! I won't settle! I don't want fat/non-white/average looking girls!

 

"Why don't you improve yourself on this? " A: no! I am good enough!

 

"Why don't you stop pursuing a certain type of women?" A: no! women are superficial! All women require 6'4" men!

 

Guys, plenty of short guy with modest incomes have loving, kind, and supportive girl friends and wives. So clearly there are a lot of non-superficial women out there. You are just not looking for them.

 

In sum, a lot of people don't want solutions and suggestions. They just want to hear "it is the world/women/on-line dating's fault that I am single!"

 

I think you're missing the main point of this thread. This thread was talking about ONLINE dating, not dating in general. And as I said in my last post, I wasn't "bashing" women, and and as I said in another post, I've actually done quite well for myself via online dating (I know your post wasn't "targeting" me or anything, I'm just clarifying what I've personally said, in case there was any confusion). OLD got me a 5 year relationship (and she reached out to me first), a solid number of FWBs this past year, and some dates with very attractive, intelligent, and accomplished women. For me personally, my recent frustration stems from having read a number of very mean profiles, and the time of year (V-day). So I suppose you can take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm probably single just because I haven't met the right woman yet and because I'm not 100% over my ex. It is what it is.

 

Nevertheless, I stand by what I've said, I do believe that OLD is generally easier for women, regardless of attraction level. Like I said, if you put two people who are equally attractive side by side, but one is a man and one is a woman, even if she's only getting a few emails, she's still getting more emails than the guy. So yeah, I do believe that online dating favors women, and many people would agree with me.

 

HOWEVER, like I have said in many other threads, I do believe that dating in general (in terms of finding a suitable partner) is equally as difficult for men and women.

[deejay74]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I started this thread because of my frustrations of OLD, not dating in general.

 

And MCJD4ever and I made it pretty clear where our frustrations lie and why. We're both smart, open-minded guys and have had a lot of experience with OLD over the years.

 

There have been many studies both anecdotally and scientifically that prove our point that women have the upper hand when it comes to OLD, if you refuse to believe that, that's your choice.

 

And, I will say once again, I don't think my heart is in this 100% and perhaps that is part of the problem I am having AT THIS MOMENT. I met my very beautiful ex off OKC and a very successful and attractive woman who's the ex before that off Match.

 

I already took myself off Match and I am about to take myself off OKC. And I have said this before - I feel the need to focus all my energy inward to improve my emotional and physical health. This last break up really messed my head up and I haven't completely healed and before the weather gets warm, I want to get in shape.

 

so FOR NOW, i'm taking a break.

[Blue Spiral]

I am going to sum this thread up:

 

Men with little success with dating are not here to seek advice.

 

I'm just speaking for myself, but...is it possible to have "little success" with something that one has never tried or wanted to do?

 

"Why don't you be more open minded?" A: no! I won't settle! I don't want fat/non-white/average looking girls!

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any of the guys in this thread say they wouldn't date non-white women.

 

"Why don't you improve yourself on this? " A: no! I am good enough!

 

We're merely copying women's approach, and I think it's an extremely wise move. Whenever I've heard women discuss breakups or rejections--whether on ENA or offline--it's been "He's a loser, he doesn't deserve you!" or "You can do better!" or "You're fine just the way you are, and if he can't see that, that's his problem!" Men's self-esteem is at an all-time low; we need to find ways to protect ourselves. That starts with recognizing our own value.

 

Guys, plenty of short guy with modest incomes have loving, kind, and supportive girl friends and wives. So clearly there are a lot of non-superficial women out there.

 

You're absolutely right--I've met a lot of them. The only problem is that the men had to settle for them, and aren't even remotely attracted to them, so they usually end up breaking up/divorcing. So, since every man can get some woman, even if we aren't physically attracted to her, it means that we don't have anything to complain about! Seems legit.

[John John]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I started this thread because of my frustrations of OLD, not dating in general.

 

And MCJD4ever and I made it pretty clear where our frustrations lie and why. We're both smart, open-minded guys and have had a lot of experience with OLD over the years.

 

There have been many studies both anecdotally and scientifically that prove our point that women have the upper hand when it comes to OLD, if you refuse to believe that, that's your choice.

 

Yes...1000% this.

 

I think some women automatically get very defensive when we bring up the fact (and I do believe it IS a fact) that ONLINE dating (not dating in general, which we weren't discussing here) is easier for women. Then we get accused of women bashing, when all we were doing was venting about the lopsided world of OLD. And I'll say it again, finding a good partner is equally as difficult for both sexes.

 

As lopsided as it is, I haven't lost faith in it entirely...it's worked quite well for me in the past. I think I'm just in a generally bad frame of mind right now, so as I mentioned, I guess some of what I've said can be taken with a hefty grain of salt.

[savignon]

OLD may be easier for lots of women but have some empathy for the people it doesn't work well for. By saying "all women have a ridiculous list of standards" or "all women" anything...isn't fair. Not all women get 100 emails a day and unreachable standards. What Blue and some others imply is that someone like me who's not superficial and doesn't have 50 guys beating down my door is that someone would have to "settle for" someone like me ...and then divorce me later.

The generalizations are too much to bear. And inaccurate. And insulting.

[John John]

OLD may be easier for lots of women but have some empathy for the people it doesn't work well for. By saying "all women have a ridiculous list of standards" or "all women" anything...isn't fair. Not all women get 100 emails a day and unreachable standards. What Blue and some others imply is that someone like me who's not superficial and doesn't have 50 guys beating down my door is that someone would have to "settle for" someone like me ...and then divorce me later.

The generalizations are too much to bear. And inaccurate. And insulting.

 

I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure I didn't make any statments that referred to "all women," I think I said "generally." OLD doesn't work for everyone, and I'm sure there are women who have a hard time too. And I think I also said that I'm sure that are some men who have crazy high standards online too. Of course not all women have crazy high standards. You can be a catch and not have a million requirements...I've dated women like this who were great all around, and who were realistic in their standards. And as I believe fifregister put it, many women only ask for what they are already offering...so it's "equitable" in that sense. I think for me, it may be an NYC thing...I see quite a lot of profiles in NYC where these girls have crazy requirements.

 

My main point has been if you look at a man and a woman (equally attractive), the woman is usually getting more interest via OLD. That's really it.

[goodheartlady]

If online dating is so awful for men, then stop! Take down your profile and let that be the end of this thread.

 

Why do you keeping banging your head against the wall if something is not working for you?

 

There are plenty of offline ways of meeting people. Oh wait, you are going to now whine about how diffficult off line dating is too, right? You can't meet women off line either because your small town/age/women, right??

 

Honestly i think you male posters are just here to vent: not seeking productive steps to change and improve your situations. Many suggestions have been made - all have been dismissed.

[goodheartlady]

I think you male posters only want to hear this:

 

1) online dating is hard for men,

2) women are crazy with their expectations,

3) you are single because it is everyone else's fault - not your own.

 

Great! We all agree with you. And how does that change your situation? How are you any closer to happiness?

[John John]

If online dating is so awful for men, then stop! Take down your profile and let that be the end of this thread.

 

Why do you keeping banging your head against the wall if something is not working for you?

 

There are plenty of offline ways of meeting people. Oh wait, you are going to now whine about how diffficult off line dating is too, right? You can't meet women off line either because your small town/age/women, right??

 

Honestly i think you male posters are just here to vent: not seeking productive steps to change and improve your situations. Many suggestions have been made - all have been dismissed.

 

I can only speak for myself, but yeah, you're right about me, I was mainly venting. And I said several times that finding a suitable partner is equally as hard for women as it is for men.

 

I don't need any advice. I have no trouble getting dates online and offline, and my profile (when it was active) is already awesome...I think my problem (personally) is the time of the year, my location (NYC sucks for serious dating, ask anyone), and having recently seen many quite negative profiles.

 

Anywho, no more posts for me in this thread, it's getting ugly (runs for the door)

[Rosti87]

I can only speak for myself, but yeah, you're right about me, I was mainly venting. And I said several times that finding a suitable partner is equally as hard for women as it is for men.

 

I don't need any advice. I have no trouble getting dates online and offline, and my profile (when it was active) is already awesome...I think my problem (personally) is the time of the year, my location (NYC sucks for serious dating, ask anyone), and having recently seen many quite negative profiles.

 

Anywho, no more posts for me in this thread, it's getting ugly (runs for the door)

 

Yup MC... this thread is slowly turning left...

[Throwaway999]

I think you male posters only want to hear this:

 

1) online dating is hard for men,

2) women are crazy with their expectations,

3) you are single because it is everyone else's fault - not your own.

 

Great! We all agree with you. And how does that change your situation? How are you any closer to happiness?

 

I think I can speak on behalf of all men everywhere when I say: Thanks, goodheartlady! That's all we've been waiting to hear! We ARE all much happier now!

[LoveSoDeep]

You know I've been using OLD on and off for a couple years and if it was really THAT easy for women I'd be happy in a relationship right now. Bottom line it's not easy for anyone. Do I get more messages than I send out....yes but that's because in general I think more men feel comfortable being the one to pursue. I do occasionally send a few messages and guess what I don't get a 100% response rate either....I haven't been tracking it but my guess is it's less than 30%....yes I know if it is 25-30% that's a higher rate than you guys are getting but guys when you do get a message I think you can admit you respond more often b/c its new and refreshing.....just because you respond doesn't mean a date or a relationship is going to follow. Just because I get messages doesn't mean I go on a ton of dates. Am I picky? Yeah, probably but I see it more like I have learned what doesn't work....I've learned over the years that some things don't work for me and I don't want to waste my time trying it over and over....so they guys I don't respond to aren't bad guys they just aren't for me. I'm sure men a re picky for the same kinds of reasons, and that's okay.

 

However, I do think that people in general need to realize that we all have types and sometimes the type you like is not generally predisposed to like the type you are....that's going to make it tough. I think I'm your average girl next door type I have a professional career and own my own home....but for some reason I get tons of messages from bikers and guys with lots of tattoos.I wonder how often women like me really respond to them.Could it be they are wasting their time and just adding to their own frustration? possibly.

[chr8st8na]

I think I can speak on behalf of all men everywhere when I say: Thanks, goodheartlady! That's all we've been waiting to hear! We ARE all much happier now!

 

lol... i know right

[Blue Spiral]

I think you male posters only want to hear this:

 

1) online dating is hard for men,

 

True.

 

2) women are crazy with their expectations,

 

True.

 

3) you are single because it is everyone else's fault - not your own.

 

False. 90% of the time, something is both our fault and other people's fault. But on a site like ENA, we tend to talk about the problems that affect everyone, as opposed to the problems that just affect us. If I went up to MCJD and said, "Finding women online is hard!", he'd be all, "Yeah, it is!" Whereas if I went up to him and said, "Women should be okay with guys that are monogamy-challenged, and who have the maturity of a bored junior high student, and who want to read or play video games instead of talking!", he'd be all, "Uh..."

 

(Bonus V-Day confession: when I was in a relationship, the two most common thoughts in my head were "Why aren't we having sex right now??" and "Why is she talking to me??")

 

Great! We all agree with you. And how does that change your situation? How are you any closer to happiness?

 

For me, it isn't about getting closer to happiness, it's about getting closer to the truth. Thank you for agreeing with us, sarcastically though it may have been. In return, here's a list of concessions for you. These are legit gripes that women have. You can criticize men for these and not be a man-hater, much like how we can criticize women for things and not be women-haters.

 

1. Men are obsessed with looks, even though they have nothing to do with who someone really is. Looks don't have anything to do with personality-based compatibility, which is ultimately what will make a relationship succeed or fail. Sure, physical stuff will be important for the first twenty or thirty years, but if the relationship is a success, it should last much longer than that. And think about the pop-culture definition of beauty. The modern woman is judged against actresses and models that look stunning in HD, younger women that are splashing barely-clothed pics of themselves all over the 'net, and attention-addicted women that exercise constantly and wear, um, strategic clothing. How can the average woman possibly keep herself in that sort of shape and simultaneously work a full-time job, especially when she has to be at her physical peak long enough to find a husband (which could take a decade or more)?

 

2. Men mature (or don't) at completely random rates, and in completely random ways. There's no universal "He'll be this mature when he's 25 and this mature when he's 30" standard. We can suddenly, spontaneously regress in maturity at 30, or 40, or 50. We can dump you because you want to get married, and marry another girl six months later. As men, we just have to use our eyes to find what we're attracted to, but women have to practically become mind-readers. Is he honest about how mature he is, and what he wants in life? Does he think he's being honest, but is he subconsciously unready, to the point that he'll sabotage the relationship when things get too serious? Men don't have to worry about things like that.

 

3. In the past, some women encouraged other women against marriage/relationships--especially in early, primordial feminism. Obviously, things have changed since then. Now, it's men warning other men against marriage/relationships...and we're a lot less commitment-centric to begin with. Most women understood that things weren't fair, but they didn't go so far as avoiding marriage altogether. They found a happy medium. But men have an entire rogues' gallery at work; devils on our shoulders that are trying to lure us away. PUAs, players, serial monogamists, men's rights people, etc. Men don't have to deal with someone actively sabotaging the dating/mating pool; women, on the other hand, do. (spoiler alert: I'm totally one of them)

 

At any rate: it's Valentine's Day, and I'm happy that I don't have to deal with this crap. I hope that deejay and MCJD feel the same.

[LoveSoDeep]

WOW! Just Wow!

 

I really couldn't agree more. very well said. Especially the parts in red.

 

Point 1. Although obsessed may be a little harsh I think men are very visual that is one of the main differences between men and women that most people can agree upon...so why are we confused that men want beautiful women? Personally I'm not confused by this but I do agree that media and porn have made the bar for "beauty" that men are looking for unrealistic and unattainable for the majority of the women out there. I try hard but I'm never going to have the body of movie star b/c I don't have a personal chef and 8 hours a day just to work out. So guys all I ask is be realistic...and some of you are...I know because there are some guys that think I am drop dead gorgeous...it's just too bad I'm not as attracted to them as they are me. lol I think the guys who are good looking are the ones who expect the most...and yes it's okay to expect an 8 when you're an 8 but I see so many 7s that expect an 11. Guys just understand and accept your own imperfections and stop seeking perfection...you'll be happier!

 

Point 2. Holy moley! I cannot believe a male actually admitted this! Do you know my ex? lol seriosuly I have seen this more than once and I whole heatedly agree you can't tell when a guy will be ready and neither can he...and sometimes he wants to be ready more than anything and he just can't do it....it just happens.

 

Point 3. Thank you for admitting this...I know guys are out there saying things like "Your life is over!" when I guy proposes to his girlfriend and it has always made me extremely angry that kind of sabotage is so uncool especially when you never know if or when a guy will mature and be ready....us women are hoping and praying to win the maturity lottery and you're out there basically making fun of men who have the b@lls to be mature and want a real relationship? If you are one of these guys...I don't care what's gone on in your past to make you hate the idea of commitment but for Pete's sake KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!

 

All of these things make dating in general difficult but Point one is what makes OLD difficult for everyone. Thanks BlueSpiral!

[Ms Darcy]

I think it's funny that someone would look for a girl who is - for example - petite with ivory skin and long blonde hair and a button nose and then feel upset that she wants a tall guy with money. It just speaks to mutual pickiness. People only get upset about this when they find that their "type" wants someone who is "better."