To Marry or not to Marry.... that is the question.

[superfan]

I find this forum a fascinating place. People post views and emotions and questions. Many of these centre around marriage. To marry or not. More often than not, not marrying can mean the end of the relationship. We live in a world where the society (for whatever cultural reason) expects people to go through the process/ritual/life milestone called marriage. Often this causes tensions and issues of greater significance than the relationship itself. It is tragic that the act of marriage and all the symbolism that goes with it should cause relationships to fail in so many cases. But there is a 3rd way.

 

I would say that we (as a human race) are inching forwards towards more enlightened times though there are many prejudices in this area.

 

Just to get clarification here. When you said that we are living in 'more enlightened' times, are you suggesting that those who forgo the state of marriage 'more enlightened'? Or are you saying that the amount of people who no longer judge those who choose not to marry is increasing and therefore we are more enlightened because we no longer judge as much by the choices people make? If it is the former, then that contradicts your statement of this thread not being an attack on marraige. If it is the latter, I agree 100% that moving towards a society in which we do not judge others for the personal choices they make is a positive thing.

 

I use myself as an example. I have lived with my partner for 21 years. We are not married. We have 2 children (aged 15 and 10). We have all the aspects of good family life but we have chosen not to marry and we like it that way. Our view is that if two people love each other and chose to live together and have children we do not need the consent or recognition of anyone to do so.

 

We do of course encounter those who happen to disagree with our "lifestyle choice" but we regard this as their problem not ours. Nor do we have any negative view of marriage. The point I am making here is marriage is not a compulsory part of life (in our view). Being happy and loving each other is. That is the only criteria by which a relationship should survive or fail.

 

People will always encounter others who disagree with a lifetstyle choice and decide to judge people on it. I think that we need to embrace the idea of 'live and let live'. Personally, I believe that marriage is a very personal decision and one that may have very different reasons for that choice being made. My husband and I chose to got married for a number of reasons but the main one was that I was sponsoring him into the country and it was much easier to do so if we were married. Our relationship was 100% permanent and we both knew that, but legally we were on surer footing when it came to immigration. Would we have gotten married if it hadn't been for that? Very likely, but I am not 100% sure because we might not have bothered to get around to it. (We're lazy like that sometimes lol)

 

The only thing I would disagree with is that marriage being a direct cause of the downfall of a relationship. I think that sometimes people get married for the wrong reaosons and that is often the reason that they end up in divorce. Getting married for the sake of a party, for status, to save a relationship or because a partner ends up pregnant is never a good reason and always a last ditch effort to save a relationship that is already doomed. While getting married might speed that end along, I believe these types of relationships would end no matter what.

 

I believe there are right reasons to get married though. We didn't ONLY get married because of immigration and we are coming up on our 4th anniversary now. Our marriage and our relationship is far stronger now than it has ever been. It feels far stronger after having done it as well - like nothing can break us down. Obviously, it is not for everyone, nor am I trying to "convince the unconvincable". Marriage has legal benefits AND drawbacks that also need to be recognized.

 

Certainly if a marriage ends in divorce, it can go very badly. Legally you can end up in far more trouble than a couple who are not legally married. However, there ARE legal benefits to it as well - especially if you are strong enough NOT to worry about divorce.

 

Bottom line - live and let live. Why try to convince others into a lifestyle that is not right for them?

[Batya33]

and that is exactly what I meant as well.

 

Batya33, I can exchange vows with him even if we will never get married. Whats stopping me? And he doesn't care about the wedding, not about our life together.

 

That's not really what I meant. Sure you can exchange personal vows with him if that sounds like something that would enhance your relationship but I'm not sure what that has to do with legal marriage. My point was that I'm not sure it's a good idea to have a marriage ceremony with someone who's only or mostly doing it for the other person unless it's for the legal benefits or immigration I guess.

[Ohio321]

Completely agree.... my point is it is no longer seen as compulsory (at least to many)... I can see I am at one end of the argument spectrum here but I fully appreciate why people marry. Live and let live as you say.

 

 

 

Haha.... looks odd ay. I was referring to us both having kids (family etc)... I think there was a little vino involved whist typing.... apologies. Anyway, I Wasn't trying to start anything with the old GF.... was actually rather pissed off that she was trying to deny our relationship and I thought she should know some things... admittedly it was a mistake to even think that despite the fact we literally live 10,000 miles apart that we could be in touch. She did reply but it'll go no further.

[redswim30]

I think people can absolutely have happy life-long partnerships that don't culminate in marriage.

 

However, I think both people need to be on the same page regarding the matter.

 

I think the biggest "danger" so to speak in not getting married to your partner is more to do with rights and protection issues than love, emotional or relationship issues.

 

It just depends how important those things are to the parties involved.

 

IMVHO, relationships are a matter of heart at the core, and not a piece of paper. A piece of paper does not make or break a relationship.

[Reflective82]

Personally I would never have the children of a man who wouldn't marry me. I would see it as him not being willing to make the full commitment. And there have been examples of women who have been left after a situation like the above and they have not been financially protected because they weren't married. The man did not have to give them a settlement and they were left with very little. Unfortunately marriage is in some ways a financial contract.

 

I have no problem with what people want to do-- but there's no way I would put up with a guy not proposing. I learned the hard way that all the excuses about "it's just a piece of paper" actually translated to "I want to keep my options open and I don't want to marry you" after 4.5 years. I am now 27 and if I was in a relationship and it didn't look like it was progressing to marriage after 2 years, I would probably leave. It is unfair to waste a woman's time if that is what she wants- to answer some people's questions on why they don't know why it's important to some women

[Fudgie]

Reflective,

 

I completely agree with you. If I wanted children, I would absolutely marry first. I still don't understand why people don't marry yet have children. Children are a bigger commitment than marriage but marriage is a financial contract too and it protects the children. That's why there is alimony. I find the idea of alimony to be awful for me when I think about me having no kids, divorcing, and probably paying money to an ex... For what? So I can subsidize his life?? But children? Alimony helps normalize their life post divorce if one parent made more than the other.

 

So yeah I'm totally with you on that.

[Reflective82]

I think alimony is also for the wife. My mum gave up her career to look after my brother and I. She is now 60. If my parents divorced I think my mum should get 50% and a proportion of future earnings. I do get how much of a burden that is for the man-- but at the same time, why should she be left with nothing after all those years? Despite the pay off, women still end up poorer after divorce and men richer, according to stats. It's one reason why I won't give up my job ever, as I could not deal with the hurt from a marriage breaking up and then relying on whatever pay out I got.

 

I personally see marriage as really important and it is one of the things I feel sad I have not accomplished by 27 and as I am currently single probably won't be 30....I feel women have more to lose by not marrying, but it is everyone's choice.

[Seraphim]

Just as a reminder the average age of people getting married now is around 30. I married 20 years ago and I got married at 27. People typically get married after their schooling is done.

[Reflective82]

Is it? That does make me feel better. I would rather get married later than get married to the wrong person-- but it still does make me sad. I have to take responsibility for my part, but spending (wasting) 4.5 years of my twenties with someone who then would not marry me was regretful for me. I would love to be married at 30 and first child at 32, but sadly you can't control these things

[Fudgie]

Yeah the average age of marriage is rising. My parents met at professional school. Married at 30, had me a few years later, and then my sibs a few years later.

 

Honestly, I think it's ideal. You're better off financially and can be better prepared for a baby.

[Seraphim]

See that is the thing worrying about things you cannot control is a waste of time and energy. What would be a better expenditure of your time would be finding the qualities that you want in a man and then finding that man. Just remember the age at which you get married is not a race. What matters is that you marry well. That you marry a person who shares a lot of the same integral values ,morals , and goals that you have. Obviously you will differ on minor things but the major things you should agree upon.

 

Here is a story from my life. My mother's mother did not marry until she was 38. It took her quite a while to find a man that she wanted to marry. So she married at 38 and then went on to have two children. And when she married that was a marriage until death. So it was well worth her time to have waited. Now if my grandmother were alive today she would be 107. So that tells you the time period in which she was a young lady. That was a time period in which a lot of women married in their teens. So she was considered very odd indeed. But she did and got what she wanted.

[Reflective82]

I think it's the uncertainty. If you could see to the future and know you would definitely meet and marry the man of your dreams people would have such a blast being single-- it's the worrying which goes with "will I ever meet someone again?" "what if what I want isn't out there"- it's funny that so many men don't have this worry. I think marriage is just really important to a lot of women. I would feel like a failure if I didn't achieve it. Sometimes I wonder if the man I want is out there- I do meet men on nights out who ask for my number but often I am not interested. It must be so nice to feel married and secure and know that part of your life is taken care of?

 

That is a really nice story Victoria- and so good she had the confidence to wait and found what she wanted. I fear I would panic and settle before that age

[Seraphim]

Actually if I had to do it all over again I think I would've waited longer. I have been with my husband since I was 22 years old. I never had a chance to be single. When I was younger my PTSD was so severe that I couldn't go out with anyone. I had recovered enough by the time I met him that I was able to start dating. But I cannot say that I searched for the man I wanted to marry he just landed in my lap so to speak. But thinking about it now I think I would've liked to explore more who I was before I became an "us." Getting to know yourself before you marry is very important.

[Reflective82]

I would say you were so lucky-- 22 is young and I can see how it would have been beneficial to have some more years to yourself. Perhaps 25 is the best age to meet- I think that is a good age.

 

However I can tell you that being 27 and single is not fun-- and I am having to "search" for the man I want as I don't just want to sit back and wait, as I fear that will not lead me to the man I want....it is not fun and the uncertainty is unenjoyable.

 

I also think it's nice that you lived your life with your husband, rather than living your life, then meeting someone...

[Seraphim]

Well there are two sides to a coin. My mother got married at 18 to someone who she did not know was mentally ill. ( my father) they had been together since they were 15. However they were divorced by the time they were 24. Then my mother married again but due to the circumstances of an ex-wife and an ex-husband who just would not leave them alone that marriage failed as well. My mother married for the third time when she was my age right now. And they are still married. They married the same year I did. So you never know when you are going to meet someone who is the person that you should be married to.

[greywolf]

I would say you were so lucky-- 22 is young and I can see how it would have been beneficial to have some more years to yourself. Perhaps 25 is the best age to meet- I think that is a good age.

 

However I can tell you that being 27 and single is not fun-- and I am having to "search" for the man I want as I don't just want to sit back and wait, as I fear that will not lead me to the man I want....it is not fun and the uncertainty is unenjoyable.

 

I also think it's nice that you lived your life with your husband, rather than living your life, then meeting someone...

 

Your life doesn't stop after a certain age though.

[Batya33]

I would say you were so lucky-- 22 is young and I can see how it would have been beneficial to have some more years to yourself. Perhaps 25 is the best age to meet- I think that is a good age.

 

However I can tell you that being 27 and single is not fun-- and I am having to "search" for the man I want as I don't just want to sit back and wait, as I fear that will not lead me to the man I want....it is not fun and the uncertainty is unenjoyable.

 

I also think it's nice that you lived your life with your husband, rather than living your life, then meeting someone...

 

Yes that is how it was for me. I didn't sit back at 22 either, however. Once I was ready to date seriously, I was proactive about meeting people who might be a good long term match. It certainly prepared me for other forms of uncertainty in life, that's for sure!

 

If I had married the guy I was serious with at 25 he would have led a double life. He is now married to a man.

[Reflective82]

Oh my god!! Sorry I shouldn't laugh but that really made me laugh-- married to a man, wow. Thank god you got out of that

[Reflective82]

True Victoria- although if you want children you have to make a first marriage or "meeting" happen in your 30s!

[Seraphim]

True Victoria- although if you want children you have to make a first marriage or "meeting" happen in your 30s!

 

That is true. My mom was done having kids when she was 23 though. But many women have children when they're older. My mother's mother ,the one I told you about she had my mother when she was 40 and my mother's brother when she was 42. Now mind this was 67 years ago before all special tests and things for "geriatric mothers." Yes if you are over 40 they call you a geriatric mother. Lol crazy but true. I myself got pregnant at 40 and 45. Both naturally. But both my children miscarried. But that was far more due to a problem I have with my uterus then my age . Although by the time you reach 45 the rate for miscarriage is above 50%.

[CatchersRye]

That is true. My mom was done having kids when she was 23 though. But many women have children when they're older. My mother's mother ,the one I told you about she had my mother when she was 40 and my mother's brother when she was 42. Now mind this was 67 years ago before all special tests and things for "geriatric mothers." Yes if you are over 40 they call you a geriatric mother. Lol crazy but true. I myself got pregnant at 40 and 45. Both naturally. But both my children miscarried. But that was far more due to a problem I have with my uterus then my age . Although by the time you reach 45 the rate for miscarriage is above 50%.

 

So sorry to hear that. My aunt and uncle tried very hard for years and thought my aunt couldn't get pregnant. I don't know her age, but they luckily now have a boy of their own. Victoria, I cannot imagine what you went you. I'm just glad you have your husband there with you.

 

@Reflective, As a guy, I have always wanted to be with someone since I was in middle school. I didn't start dating until after college at 28-29.

 

Every guy is different and we all have obstacles that we have to overcome or just live with. The best thing you can do is know yourself, question your beliefs, challenge your fears, and own your decisions.

 

As long as you are consistent with how you decide whether a guy is worth your time, then you can easily avoid the ones that aren't.

 

Unfortunately, you learned a lesson 4.5 years in the making. But that doesn't mean you are behind the curb, it means you are ahead of it. You are more knowledgeable about yourself and what you are unwilling to put up with.

 

I'm sad that I didn't get to date in high school or college (not for the lack of trying), but I am lucky as I've learned from my own mistakes and worked on things that made me a better person and not just some guy looking for a woman.

 

After spending at least a decade desiring to be with someone, I finally had changed my focus from that goal to pursue the goal of being financially independent and building friendships. That made me a better person once I met my girlfriend.

 

The road you travel is yours alone, learn what you can, know what you want, but focus on the present. That's my thoughts.

[Reflective82]

thanks Catcher I think the most important lesson anyone can learn is boundaries and how to exit quickly when things aren't going well-- wasting time is really annoying

[Seraphim]

Thanks I have a wonderful 16 year old boy. I have 4 babies in heaven though.

[Batya33]

True Victoria- although if you want children you have to make a first marriage or "meeting" happen in your 30s!

 

Yes, optimally. We didn't get married until we were 42 and started trying to conceive when I was close to 41. We started dating in our late 30s. It would have been easier to be pregnant in my 30s -less stressful. I put a lot of pressure on myself when I was your age too but decreased that pressure at some point in my 30s. I was at my most marriage obsessed in my early 20s and early 30s.

[OptomisticGirl]

I was 21 when my husband and I met and we were married when I was 23 (he was 25 when we met, 27 when we married). We both had been in previous relationships and knew going into our relationship that we both wanted marriage. We really got lucky in the grand scheme of things (not even including the fact we met online and we were 4,000 miles apart!) in that we both knew what we wanted and we shared that common goal. Two years into our marriage I'm happy with when I got married. I def. wasn't ready for marriage with my ex (despite thinking I was) and I know my husband feels the same way since he was engaged once before me.