What did I do wrong???

[John John]

You have to know how to read the signs from women bro. I went out Saturday night and ended up with four numbers because I have learned to differentiate between politeness and actual flirting. Granted, I'm taking a break from dating, so I'm not sure if I'll actually call any of them (there's only one that I actually would, anyways). But the reason I was successful is because I was able to read their signs and body language. And two were offered to me without asking, so at least two of them are legit interested.

 

Some women will be nice and make conversation with you even if they aren't interested, but you have to read between the lines and their body language. Before she said "I have to go sit with my friend" was she leaning towards you? Was she smiling a lot, twirling her hair, touching her neck or anything like that? Another good test is if they gently smack you on the shoulder when you crack jokes...so try to be funny and see how they react to that. Women like to talk, and even if they strike up a convo with you, by no means does it guarantee you getting a number.

 

I'll also note that I was brutually rejected by one girl Saturday night (same bar). She was the hottest one there, so I kinda figured I'd be rejected, but I approached anyway. I waited until no one was looking so I'd have no audience for said rejection (no embarrassment for me and no satisfaction for her). She basically turned around, looked at me, and then turned back around. And I just walked away. I actually laughed about it with my boy immediately afterwards. But the drinks just kept flowing and I got the other numbers after that.

 

And the "Californian hug?" Dude...just, no. Asking a girl you just met (who knows you were hitting on her, and tried to escape earlier in the evening) for a hug screams desperation. It sounds like you're socially awkward. I have a friend like that, and he never did well in the bar/party scene. He eventually got a girlfriend but that was due to really good timing and they met outside of that scene which was never good for him in the first place.

 

I concur with the others that you seem sort of out of touch with reality in some ways. I would suggest seeing a therapist before trying to date or hookup.

[jonny15]

I'll also note that I was brutually rejected by one girl Saturday night (same bar). She was the hottest one there, so I kinda figured I'd be rejected, but I approached anyway. I waited until no one was looking so I'd have no audience for said rejection (no embarrassment for me and no satisfaction for her). She basically turned around, looked at me, and then turned back around. And I just walked away. I actually laughed about it with my boy immediately afterwards. But the drinks just kept flowing and I got the other numbers after that.

 

Not everyone can emotionally handle a rejection like that. Not everyone is mentally built to take that.

 

Some people can't just get use to something like that.

 

Also, some people can't read signs.

[John John]

Not everyone can emotionally handle a rejection like that. Not everyone is mentally built to take that.

 

Some people can't just get use to something like that.

 

Also, some people can't read signs.

 

It wasn't even so much the rejection itself, but the way in which it was done. I've had girls say something like "Sorry but I'm not interested" or "maybe some other time" but never this. LOL I said "oh ok, I see how it is" and just walked away. But I recovered quickly because I know anytime a girl rejects me, there will always be more girls. Rejection is an unfortunate part of life, not everyone is going like us just the way we don't like everyone we meet.

[abitbroken]

You have to go to a group setting to get to the point of one on one.

 

You would have been better off to talk to that girl for 15 minutes when she went back to her friend tell her it was nice talking to her. And then let her come to you if she is interested. Or ask her to invite her friend over, too. Or even start talking to other people. Don't fixate on one person to give you practice talking to others. I agree, the hug was super creepy. Also, talking to someone for fifteen minutes doesn't mean they wanted you. If she was interested she would have said she had to go check up on her friend and would have asked if she could catch you later.

 

And as far as meetups, you have to get people in a group before you can get them one on one.

 

And as far as groups = start one yourself or give the group time. If you go regularly, you will start to make friends.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Not everyone can emotionally handle a rejection like that. Not everyone is mentally built to take that.

 

Some people can't just get use to something like that.

 

Also, some people can't read signs.

 

You can learn to do those things though. You can learn to handle rejection well. You can learn how to read signs. Just takes practice like anything else does.

 

I used to be really bad at social cues. I fixed that.

[AE9876]

It wasn't even so much the rejection itself, but the way in which it was done. I've had girls say something like "Sorry but I'm not interested" or "maybe some other time" but never this. LOL I said "oh ok, I see how it is" and just walked away. But I recovered quickly because I know anytime a girl rejects me, there will always be more girls. Rejection is an unfortunate part of life, not everyone is going like us just the way we don't like everyone we meet.

 

Guys, be sure the problem is with the woman herself in this instance. She sounds nasty. So unnecessary and I think MJCD4ever knew that hence just being able to let it go.

 

Good for you!

[Dougie_D]

You can learn to do those things though. You can learn to handle rejection well. You can learn how to read signs. Just takes practice like anything else does.

 

I used to be really bad at social cues. I fixed that.

 

I'm gonna go through it step by step again. And try not to leave anything out.

 

1. I grabbed a random guy to be my "wingman"

2. He started to talk to them both and we did introductions.

3. Then he started to talk to the girl purchasing drinks and I started to have a conversation. First words out of my mouth was "are you having a good night so far?"

4. Now the conversation is heating up. Some time during this conversation, my wingman already left and the other friend is still waiting for drinks.

5. The girl gave me a lot of herself. I tried to balance the time so I wouldn't annoy her too much. That could have been problem #1. She was definitely SMILING and she definitely was loosing up. Her guard was down.

6. Now, again, we are just standing next to the bar. She is handed a drink and her friend left to find a table. We are still talking for a bit. I don't know how long we were talking when her other friend had left.

7. Then the girl goes, "well, I probably need to visit my friend" and I said "ok. yeah, I'll catch up with you later". Something along those lines.

8. I go around and mingle with other people.

9. Then she came back to the bar to get herself drinks by herself. THIS WAS PROBABLY A MISTAKE??? #2? I struck a conversation again. I did get the feeling I was over doing it. But I felt like I just NEEDED to talk/flirt with her more.

10. This is when she asked about my WINGMAN friend. I told her the truth. That it was just some guy I know from the bars. MISTAKE #3?

11. Then I asked her when she moved to Cali or something like that and at first she felt like she was embarrased. She told me a specific year when she graduated from highschool. And I was like, "wow, we are not too far apart". So she was like 33 and I was 32. MISTAKE # 4? I think she thought I was younger at first. Maybe when she realized my age she thought I was immature??

12. Then she kind of insulted me. She goes "don't you have any friends?" That was uncomfortable to me. I really didn't know what she meant. I go "well, yeah but it's harder to meet people in LA. I have tons back home" and then she agreed it was hard to establish friendships in LA. I definitely got the hint though. I wasn't really digging her after that, but I still tried my luck.

13. Than she goes, well, I got to go back to my girlfriend. I was like....and I KNOW THIS WAS A MISTAKE#5??... "You should stay here a little bit longer". This probably CREEPED her out. But at this moment, I was in desperation mode.

14. She leaves and I do my mingling again until the bar closes. Everyone is walking out and I see her again.

15.Then I tried to GET a hug and actually not trying to GIVE a hug...and to be honest, I was actually making a joke about it. About her loving California, etc... I didn't actually go towards her. I just opened up my arms and said it.

 

Looking back... I think after the first conversation I should have left it like that. I'm just a TERRIBLE closer.

[abitbroken]

12. Then she kind of insulted me. She goes "don't you have any friends?" That was uncomfortable to me. I really didn't know what she meant. I go "well, yeah but it's harder to meet people in LA. I have tons back home" and then she agreed it was hard to establish friendships in LA. I definitely got the hint though. I wasn't really digging her after that, but I still tried my luck.

13. Than she goes, well, I got to go back to my girlfriend. I was like....and I KNOW THIS WAS A MISTAKE#5??... "You should stay here a little bit longer". This probably CREEPED her out. But at this moment, I was in desperation mode.

14. Then I tried to GET a hug and actually not trying to GIVE a hug...and to be honest, I was actually making a joke about it. About her loving California, etc... I didn't actually go towards her. I just opened up my arms and said it.

 

Looking back... I think after the first conversation I should have left it like that. I'm just a TERRIBLE closer.

 

Everything was going fine up until #13. It went downhill then. It was okay to talk to her again if she came back up to you, but #13 went downhill fast. You need to look at every interaction as a victory - you achieved the goal of having a conversation with a woman. And who knows. You don't HAVE to close. You could end up just having a nice conversation and she might end up running into you again at the bar or somewhere else. As a woman, i never would give my number out at a bar or anywhere unless i saw the guy a few times around here and there.

 

Also, as far as #12 - it wasn't an opportunity to genuinely talk about how you have few friends. It needed a witty comment about mr. wingman as she was referring to that.

"oh, you mean because i don't know mr. wingman? i do now." Or remarking that no one was up for a quick drink tonight and sometimes its just nice hanging out and meeting new people.

[Dougie_D]

I feel like I can read signs...and it feels like it's always rejection signs. Some signs are in the gray area. Some girls can be just nice/flirty and guys could take it that she MEANT to do/say whatever on purpose.

 

For instance: I go to a pizza joint next to my work once a week or so. It's an over the counter type of place. Recently, I shaved my beard into a mustache and I spiked my hair. I also wore my leather jacket. When I walked in, it was almost INSTANTLY that the girl complimented on me. She was like "I like that look on you", etc.. Than she said "I don't want you to come back here unless you are wearing this same outfit again", or something similar to that line. It was definitely a friendly/flirty line, but that was it.

 

You can't tell if the girl said it because she likes you or was just being friendly/nice. Most guys will tell me: Go for it! and then most girls will say: She probably just wanted a tip.

[abitbroken]

this girl knows you as a customer. People CAN be nice to other people because they just like them as people but don't want to date them. Just assume that until something else happens. Be very nice back to her.

 

btw, on most guys a moustache only ages them - unless you really can pull together the hipster look. But thats just me.

[Angler]

I'm just a TERRIBLE closer.

 

More PUA rubbish.

 

You have to get out of the mindset that women are objects, and that if you do the right combination of things in the right order, that you'l somehow set yourself up to "close".

[Fudgie]

Yeah, good rule of thumb (for your sake): if you're a customer to a girl, don't flirt with her thinking you're going to get with her. Chances are, she's just doing her job and being friendly.

 

Same goes for women who misread signals from working guys as "flirting". No, he's probably just being friendly.

[jonny15]

It wasn't even so much the rejection itself, but the way in which it was done. I've had girls say something like "Sorry but I'm not interested" or "maybe some other time" but never this. LOL I said "oh ok, I see how it is" and just walked away. But I recovered quickly because I know anytime a girl rejects me, there will always be more girls. Rejection is an unfortunate part of life, not everyone is going like us just the way we don't like everyone we meet.

 

That was jsut brutal tho.

 

I think I would've had problems, since I would've gottin really pissed off if that happened due to being disrespected like that.

 

A simple no thanx is all that is need.

[jonny15]

You can learn to handle rejection well.

 

Can and will are two different things. And that is because no one is just alike.

 

Not everyone handles embarresment the same.

 

You can learn how to read signs. Just takes practice like anything else does.

 

I used to be really bad at social cues. I fixed that.

 

I'm not the best at reading signs, but on the other hand, I don't go around touching random women I just talked to.

[Dragunov-21]

Not everyone can emotionally handle a rejection like that. Not everyone is mentally built to take that.

 

Some people can't just get use to something like that.

 

Also, some people can't read signs.

 

Then they'd better get used to being lonely and paying for sex. The universe isn't going to take pity on you and deliver the things you can't immediately get for yourself.

 

That was jsut brutal tho.

 

I think I would've had problems, since I would've gottin really pissed off if that happened due to being disrespected like that.

 

A simple no thanx is all that is need.

 

Then you'd better have good control of yourself, because anyone who takes an attitude over a rejection rather than just walking away is liable to get bounced.

 

People are rude all the time; taking it personally and getting upset is like punching something you just stubbed your toe on.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Can and will are two different things. And that is because no one is just alike.

 

Not everyone handles embarresment the same.

 

I'm not the best at reading signs, but on the other hand, I don't go around touching random women I just talked to.

 

It's like you want to play on the soccer team but refuse to practice and expect everyone to just let you on the team anyway.

 

Personability and social skills are just like learning a skill/weight lifting/losing weight/everything in life. If you want to be good at it, you have to practice.

 

Do you really think some people are just born with social skills and the ability to handle rejection and you somehow lost the genetic lottery? Maybe they developed these skills earlier or had more opportunity to develop them young. But, you are a grown adult and the only thing preventing you from having these skills is your refusal to learn them.

 

As I said before, I didn't have these skills. I used to be terrible awkward and insecure. I worked on it. I pinpointed the things I needed to improve. I practised. Problem solved.

 

I know Dragonuv IRL. He used to be hella awkward but not anymore (jk =P)

[Dragunov-21]

I know Dragonuv IRL. He used to be hella awkward but not anymore (jk =P)

 

Jerk ~sniff~

 

Since we're on it, I'm still not successful at talking to people I don't know, but after forcing myself to just force myself into situations I've found that it gets easier each time and the f-ups hurt less each time.

 

It's a basic need for experience. If it helps, think of it as the "good stuff" being a ways down the line with the first part composed of a tonne of failures with the occasional success thrown in. You HAVE to force yourself through those failures and to learn from them each time or you'll never get there.

[greywolf]

Can and will are two different things. And that is because no one is just alike.

 

Not everyone handles embarresment the same.

 

I'm not the best at reading signs, but on the other hand, I don't go around touching random women I just talked to.

 

It really is just about practice.

 

I spent my teenage years in another country, and when I came back to the US, I felt so awkward and uncertain all the time. Westernized people seemed so loud and forward to me. I was horrible at social cues. All men seemed way too assertive to me. So for my first 3 years back here, I mostly stayed within my own culture. I didn't make friends outside of it. And I've always been bad at making friends. All my friends growing up were actually the friends that my sister made and then later on became my friends.

 

But anyway, college really helped me. My first year I sat in the back corner and no one knew who I was. After that I decided I would try talking to people and being friendly. It was kind of awkward at first, but by the second year, I was the girl that everyone thought was funny because I said super random, weird things at odd moments (which I think is still part of my awkwardness), and by my 3rd year, I had a group of friends that I hung out with all the time.

 

And now meeting new people doesn't make me nervous at all. I used to worry too much. Worry that I'd say or do something embarrassing. Now I don't care.

[tiredofvampires]

MISTAKE #1: ^THIS, ALL OF THIS, as in, THE ATTITUDE WITH WHICH YOU'RE GOING INTO THIS.

 

Of course, there are people who pull this calculated smooth-talking act off, but you have to know your limits. And you clearly don't know yours. Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Some people love to tell long jokes with punchlines, and they're great at it, especially when they have a small group of friends as a captured audience. All the pieces in the story fit together for the perfect punchline and a round of laughter. This is not me. I'm not too bad at quick observational funny statements, but if I have to tell a joke beginning to end, where there are precise things that fit into the punchline along the way, I often will forget one key thing in the story and blow the whole joke. Not only that, I don't like being the focus of a group while I "perform" something. I have to be so so so so so so comfortable with the people I'm with, with a feeling of trust and also in an energetic mood, kind of buzzing on the vibe of people, to get to that point. So I know that it's not going to be my "thing" to turn the spotlight towards myself and go off on a long-winded joke. It's just not my forte.

 

I don't believe hitting up women in bars is or ever will be your forte, Dougie. As badly as you want this to be your style, it never will be (if you were 19, I might leave some room for that to change, but you're 32, an age at which basic patterns are often/usually petrified in stone), and this environment will never be conducive for you. I don't think you're ever going to be the kind of guy who can pull off smooth moves, because there's too much internal second-guessing behind the scenes and too much history that you've catalogued in your psyche about the situation. I personally don't like super-slick guys -- in fact, I dislike them to the marrow. But even worse than a practiced slicker is a guy who is TRYING TO BE ONE and it's painfully obvious that it's not "him" to be that. That becomes an obvious charade to me, as a woman. And if I sense a charade, whether based on insincerity (often the PUA) or desperation (you), I'm done. Done with you, and please take my hints or I'll start getting blunt in a way that's increasingly less and less tolerant.

 

I don't think everyone can learn to be less awkward and learn social cues. There are some very subtle types of conditions where your basic mental status is normal, but socially there are some "blanks." Dougie, in a few threads you've mentioned that some of your friends have suggested you may have Asperger's Syndrome, which very typically manifests as not being aware of the signals you're getting from others, or being unable to read people well and respond accordingly or appropriately. I've had to wonder, having read so many of your threads, if indeed, you do have a mild case of Asperger's, and I wondered that even before you posted that your friends IRL have mentioned it -- and they have a much more accurate picture of your mannerisms. This diagnosis is in my family, so I know how it presents, and there are things you report that you've done, and even how one-track/oblivious you seem on your threads sometimes, that would be suggestive of this. (though to be sure, there are a ton of people who are one-track and oblivious who don't have Asperger's so that's not diagnostic by itself, lol.)

 

Then however, you get to this:

 

 

 

And I think, "No, I don't think it's Asperger's. It's THIS." You do have some awareness, as evidenced by your knowing where you may have made mistakes (and I agree with most of them). But there's a bigger force at work, and it over-rode whatever intuition you may have had in those moments.

 

This is THE MISTAKE, Dougie. You actually were in "desperation mode" from the minute you walked into the bar. You were in desperation mode from the get-go, with the bouncer trying to give you a bro bump, saying, go get 'em, they wanna get laid. You were in desperation mode as you got showered, got dressed, as you drove there. You went in there thinking, "I don't wanna spend 15 minutes of my time and not get anything out of it. Not again. Not this time." You went in there for the 189,905,777,343,967th time thinking in the back of your mind, "I'm 32, I've never kissed a girl, this never works, but goddammit, I'm gonna MAKE IT HAPPEN, because I'm sick of all the rejections and strike-outs, and going home empty-handed time after time. I don't care who she is, if she's pretty, I'll follow all the instructions: isolate her. Start touching gradually. Get a wingman, anyman will do. Create a fake set-up if I have to, to work it. Screw the whole point of a wingman, which is that he's a friend of mine (because I have a life) who happens to be with me to schmooze, I'll just find one as a hired gun, to zero in on my target, my kill, my prey, like a vulture, because I need this to happen. Who is she? Whoever she happens to be, she's incidental to the script that I need to have play out."

 

And then wonder why ANYTHING you say after that isn't going to out you in your desperation, and come accross as uber creepy.

 

You're going in with desperation, resorting to desperate measures as a natural progression from that, and ending with a woman thinking, "There's someone who is only interested in baiting me, and the lengths and strained conversation and unrelenting quality he's gone through to hook me shows me other girls regularly turn him down, too, so he's DESPERATE now. I feel like prey that a predator has spied in a drought."

 

I hate to put it to you so indelicately, but I feel like you need a graphic snapshot of what is going on in this woman's mind, and what's shooting yourself in the foot.

 

So you're either going to have to go through some radical overhaul where hitting on women is not the focus of the interchange, or you're going to have to go through some radical overhaul where hitting on women is not the focus of the interchange.

 

That is the ONLY way to deflate the inherent desperation that runs your entire show, eventually becoming the main feature.

 

You can't be living with low grade desperation and not have it seep out and be recognized.

 

MEETUPS, where it's not about "wasting my time and getting nothing out of it so I'll resort to whatever tumbles out my mouth, including requesting a hug from someone who clearly has backed away from me all evening, whom I've just begged to stay with me because that's the final card in a desperate man's hand". No calculating, no maneuvering, no trying at skills that aren't your forte, no trying to be the dude you aren't, no Monday-morning quarterbacking of why YET ANOTHER trial at flirtation/picking someone up went south after a brief window of opportunity with someone you'll never get a second chance with...doesn't that sound liberating?

 

(Disclaimer: I do not have any commercial interests in the link removed website. LOL)

[greywolf]

Dougie, if anything, just use meetups to practice talking to people. You don't have to go there expecting to make friends or meeting a woman. Just go for the practice.

 

And if you insist on going to bars, then just go for the practice. Just go one day without the goal of trying to hook up. Instead go with the goal of trying to practice talking to women.

[memento]

you missed one key piece dougie. Your wingman sold you out and made you look like a creeper.

 

pua bullcrap isn't gonna work for you. so stop doing it

[Tanzi]

I'm not sure sure it was going well from the beginning.

 

Grabbing some random guy to be a "wingman"? It was a set up to "isolate" her from her friend and she evidently was aware of this. She probably didn't see it as very "gentlemanly" that you were happy to keep her "isolated" from her lone friend, Dougie.

 

And this guy obviously had no interest in being a wingman and the interaction between him and her friend, who was then subsequently left on her own, would have been awkward at best and "your" girl would have seen this. She would have been keeping tabs on her friend because that's what girls do. They don't want to leave or be left by a friend. It's a rule amongst girls. YOU DON'T LEAVE A FRIEND ALONE! Or leave her alone with a guy she doesn't know or doesn't care to know.

 

If someone starts talking to me I will always be polite and talk back - and that may include a smile and a laugh depending on the conversation. However if I wasn't interested in this guy and didn't want to give him the impression that I was, I would eventually excuse myself from the conversation. Said previous smile would not mean I was available for hooking up with.

 

 

 

This makes it sounds like you were getting ready to pounce and getting her ready to pounce on. You were a hunter in full-on hunter mode and she had no intention of being your prey.

 

 

 

When you say drinks (plural) she was obviously getting drinks for her and her friend regardless of the fact that she went by herself. They had probably found themselves a decent spot or table and the friend was "keeping" them. Nevertheless, if at this point, you felt you were overdoing it then you probably were ... and having already excused herself once you should have stopped then and there.

 

 

 

Probably not. She probably already knew the answer anyway. There were plenty of mistakes in your whole approach but admitting to the truth wouldn't have been one of them.

 

 

 

Again, telling the truth wouldn't have been a mistake. That is your age and she asked. If she thought you were immature then that is more to do with your whole approach than the fact that you told her the truth. Even if you wanted to cover up your "immaturity" by lying about your age, how is that going to help? She probably wouldn't want a younger guy who is "showing his age" anyway. Lying about your age wouldn't have achieved anything and wouldn't have been the answer. However the fact that you felt that telling her your real age was a mistake says a lot and that is something you need to think about and work on. To be honest, if I didn't know your age, I would think you were about 18. You should be acting far more man-like and less boy-like at 32 (ie. you should be far more relaxed about whether or not you hook up with a girl and whether or not you do or don't talk to a girl).

 

 

 

What she was trying to say here is "Where are your friends, shouldn't you go and find them". She wasn't trying to insult you, she was giving you a rather large cue to leave.

 

 

 

.... and she could tell you were desperate and probably sensed this from the very beginning. That would have been a complete turn off.

 

You tried too hard. You tried to set things up which made it too unnatural. Maybe, when you go out, you should think less about hooking up with girls and make it more about meeting and talking to people and just having a good time with your mates. If you are happy, confident and DON'T wreak of desperation you will be amazed at how much more charming, approachable and fun to talk to and be around you will be. Let the girls want you instead of chasing after them. Girls really don't like being chased. If you continue to chase a girl who isn't interested that makes you a pest. If girls talk to a guy and the interest is there, it IS nice to know he is AS interested ... and if you, Dougie, are really after more than a hook up then this is the point where you continue to talk to find out more about the girl, let the chemistry between you get stronger. Then if or when you feel the time is right you can ask them if they would like to go out for a drink sometime and/or ask for their number. However you said you weren't interested in conversation (if you aren't going to get something from it) so it seems that you really aren't interested in knowing anything about these girls at ... so I can't see how that coincides with you wanting more. It seems to me that it is just a hook up you are after. I'm confused to be honest.

[Dragunov-21]

^^Bam.

 

tenchars

[Dougie_D]

you missed one key piece dougie. Your wingman sold you out and made you look like a creeper.

 

pua bullcrap isn't gonna work for you. so stop doing it

 

Haha! If anything, I made him almost lose his fiance'. He was there with "his girl" and they were constantly having fights about what a wingman actually is suppose to do.

 

But I agree. He screwed me over when he left the other girl.

[Dougie_D]

I feel like the whole "getting to know a girl" is AFTER the first meeting. When I meet girls, I just go through the motions.

 

Ok... so let's say I go to the bar this weekend. Remember, this is a lounge bar, not a sports bar or restaurant style. So I can't eat or play pool. You just drink.

 

What's my first step? Sit at the bar? And just WAIT? So confused.

 

What should the conversation be about? At least in a sports bar, depending what's she's wearing (if she's wearing a team jersey) you can always say "So how did your team play today? or That was an incredible play wasn't it",etc...

 

If she's not, you know she's probably just there to have a few drinks and have a good time with friends. So you DON'T OPEN YOUR MOUTH. Because if you do, she'll think you are hitting on her right??

 

If the goal is to make friendly conversation, how do you do it without letting her know YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO HIT ON HER???