Journaling my "personal growth"

[MattW]

Tell me about this post, Matt. What happens when you think about those lost years? What emotions come up? They must be very, very painful and powerful, for you to need to bury them.

 

Lets go through this. What is happening in your head, what are you feeling when you admit you may have lost those years?

 

A very volatile mix of sadness and anger. I don't direct my feelings at them, the people that treated me that way, rather, I direct it at myself. On one level, I'm extremely disappointed in myself for allowing my high school experience to have that much power over me (and in a way, I feel as though I deserve to be punished for doing so). And that's where it starts to kick in how angry at myself I would be to admit that I've lost so many years, and am STILL losing years right now. I want to punish myself further, but then again, what's worse than what I'm left with now? Suicide? That would be too easy of a way out, and that would be too good for me; I can punish myself more by forcing myself to live in the misery that I've allowed my life to become. In my mind, that's what I deserve, and thus, I refuse to change in any way, because that may ease up my punishment, and I simply can't have that.

 

I for one believe you might be honest about your confusion. It's what keeps you going in circles in your thoughts. I've done that myself, and its's a hard rut to get out of. It takes a change in perspective and energy, a leap of faith in another possibility for yourself.

 

I guess. I mean, maybe I just don't understand how my mind works, myself. I really don't know. Everyone here just keeps saying that it's my life and I have to make choices to make it better, and obviously that's true, but when it comes to "life", I might as well have the naivety of a child. I know how to take care of my basic needs, and I know how to go through the daily grind routine activities that I HAVE to do in order to get by in life (such as school, work, etc.). But beyond that, I just feel lost. I'm a "follower", not a "leader"; I'm always looking for someone to guide me, because I have no idea where to go or what to do otherwise.

 

And I know that's sad and pathetic, and that that's not the kind of person people want around, I'm very aware of that, and I hate myself for being that way. But I just can't grasp the world around me, I can't "take control", "take charge", I don't know where to go or what to do with myself.

[journeynow]

I guess. I mean, maybe I just don't understand how my mind works, myself. I really don't know. Everyone here just keeps saying that it's my life and I have to make choices to make it better, and obviously that's true, but when it comes to "life", I might as well have the naivety of a child. I know how to take care of my basic needs, and I know how to go through the daily grind routine activities that I HAVE to do in order to get by in life (such as school, work, etc.). But beyond that, I just feel lost. I'm a "follower", not a "leader"; I'm always looking for someone to guide me, because I have no idea where to go or what to do otherwise.

 

AND you are gaining self awareness, which is good, even if you are not where you wish to be. I don't think it is that unusual to feel the way you do at some point in life (or during much of life), and you have a head start on many by looking at it now at at 24. It's not pathetic, but perhaps frustrating for you. Learning to watch your thoughts takes practice, and set backs, and practice again.

[Deciduous]

Hello there Matt,

 

Thank you for coming back to me. It sounds deeply painful. The description of self-punishment is what strikes me the hardest. Part of that self-punishment is wrapped up in the belief that what happened was your fault, your mistake.

 

Seems it is very hard for people who have gone through bullying to shake this feeling.

 

The information I posted on post #158 was from a public UK web-site on bullying. Many people who have been through this experience, have feelings similiar to yours - years later. A sense of helplessness and hopelessness.

 

I wonder how you would advise a fourteen year old boy on one of those web-sites, who came looking for help. What would you say to him? Imagine that he is looking to you for guidance, because you have been through this before. Imagine that he feels suicidal, but he trusts your advice. You're 24 now, you're much older than him.

 

What would you say to him? Would you tell him that it was his fault? Probably not. So what would you tell him, to give him courage, to make him feel a little less pain. How would you make him feel better?

 

 

Deci

[itsallgrand]

So it seems like punishing yourself and denial are two of your strong coping mechanisms. For dealing with pain.

 

When you find something that works and fills those needs, you can start to let go of them. But in my experience, journeynow is right in that, it takes letting go enough to even let trying something else as a possibility a try (and with consistency enough for it to build a momentum and results) . It takes a certain leap of faith.

 

You have to be willing to be uncomfortable sometimes. For you, feeling hopeful and open and loving towards yourself will probably feel really uncomfortable. You aren't alone, Matt. There are other people who can relate to that.

 

Congrats on starting this journal and the effort you are putting in. Please don't give up. Little by little, you can do it. Sometimes the "crack" happens seemingly out of nowhere. Every effort you put in will come back to you; it can be hard to see that when you are first grinding away. The beginning is the toughest part. I have faith in you.

[MattW]

I wonder how you would advise a fourteen year old boy on one of those web-sites, who came looking for help. What would you say to him? Imagine that he is looking to you for guidance, because you have been through this before. Imagine that he feels suicidal, but he trusts your advice. You're 24 now, you're much older than him.

 

What would you say to him? Would you tell him that it was his fault? Probably not. So what would you tell him, to give him courage, to make him feel a little less pain. How would you make him feel better?

 

Geez, I don't even know. I'd really have to take some time to think about that. I don't think I have enough knowledge on overcoming this kind of thing to advise anyone else.

 

I have faith in you.

 

I'd... really rather you not say that. I have a habit of being disappointing in the end.

 

Anyway, I hate to beat on a dead horse again, and I know you guys will groan at me bringing this up again, but I've been thinking, and I think my bad high school experiences may sort of be fueling a lot of the bad feelings I have surrounding the girl at work I like. Let me explain.

 

The two coworkers she did date (much more so the one that still works with us, the one I'm watching her rekindle something with) both reminded me of the kind of people that mistreated me in high school. I actually knew both of these guys before I had met this girl, and they both always rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously they didn't do extreme things to me, but just their attitudes and the way that treated me.

 

The guy that's still with us, in particular, has always kind of made my blood boil. Aside from how cocky and full of himself he is, and how he juggles women and brags about it, he always tends to poke fun at me in ways that seem mean spirited. He really seems to like putting me down in front of others, notably women, and especially the girl I like. I really hate him, to be honest.

 

Just before I asked her out, I could tell he was trying to get back with her. So when I thought I had a chance with her, in a way, I saw an opportunity to get a sort of victory over the people that mistreated me. I could get the awesome girl I cared a great deal for and beat the jerk from getting her. I could prove those people wrong, that I was a great worthwhile person, that I could have an amazing girl in my life.

 

And then, not only did she reject me, but she gave herself to the very kind of person that I despise, the kind of person that abused me. Once again, they won. Once again, I lost out to my abusers. This was supposed to be my moment, my redemption, my victory over the hell that was my past, but in the end, my past won yet again.

 

I think that's a big part of why I hold so much bitterness, and why watching what I'm watching now is particularly painful to me.

 

Either way, thinking about high school again has been... unpleasant, even bringing me close to tears. I really never wanted to think about this stuff again.

[Deciduous]

Hi Matt,

 

No I'm not groaning. What you say makes a lot of sense. I'm dead pleased that you are stepping back and analysing situations in a new light. This is what growth is. There is nothing negative about that. Not at all.

 

I think we attract familiar situations to ourselves over and over again, until we understand what they are about.

 

 

 

I can understand that dream. Not only would it be a victory over those who don't value you, but it would also prove a point to yourself. It would show you that you are worthwhile. That you have worth.

 

 

 

Many people trying to heal pain from their past by subconsciously recreating the same event. This is why some females who had abusive fathers, then go on to have abusive relationships. They want to change the outcome of the past.

 

Yet the odds are already stacked against them. They picked the situation because it was abusive, because it was failing. At some point they are forced to do exactly what you are doing in your post, which is look at thier own motivations, thier own painful history and begin to process it.

 

 

 

I can absolutely understand that feeling. There is a reason why I am bringing you back to these memories. I know it is very, very painful. If it wasn't, you would have gone through this journey a long time ago.

 

Why do you think I keep bringing you back to this place? What do you think my purpose is?

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

Geez, I don't even know. I'd really have to take some time to think about that. I don't think I have enough knowledge on overcoming this kind of thing to advise anyone else.

 

One thing you have over this hypothetical suicidal 14 year old, is that you are still alive. You are still here and they don't want to be. So what would you tell them to give the courage to keep going.

 

Think of it as letter you would write to them. What would you say to comfort them?

 

Deci

[MattW]

I think we attract familiar situations to ourselves over and over again, until we understand what they are about.

 

Many people trying to heal pain from their past by subconsciously recreating the same event. This is why some females who had abusive fathers, then go on to have abusive relationships. They want to change the outcome of the past.

 

Yet the odds are already stacked against them. They picked the situation because it was abusive, because it was failing. At some point they are forced to do exactly what you are doing in your post, which is look at thier own motivations, thier own painful history and begin to process it.

 

I guess, but I'm not really sure how I "attracted" anything into my life. It was completely out of my hands that I ended up working with a guy like this, that he came in and immediately viewed himself as better than me, and has tried to position himself over me any chance he gets. Not to mention, this doesn't really recreate the high school situation, in that there was never a girl involved, in high school. High school was just me trying to find people I fit in with, and falling in with a group that decided to spend every waking moment torturing me, telling me that I'm worthless, unlovable, that "no girl will ever like me", that I'm the "next 40-year old virgin" (er, the movie was new at the time, so that of course became their pun for a little while), that they're better than me. There was never a girl in high school that I was attracted to that chose them over me.

 

This guy at work has never been outwardly abusive in that same way (as in, telling me that I'm worthless and unlovable), but his general attitude and personality have always just rubbed me the wrong way. And again, every time there's a girl around, he has to take potshots at me and put me down so that he looks more attractive to that girl, and it seems to work in his favor. That's very frustrating to me, and I can't do a thing about it. In this modern situation, he is a representation of my tormentors from high school, in my mind.

 

When I fell head over heels for this girl at work, I was elated, but then when I noticed that he was after her, too, I felt a sense of urgency. I felt like, not only could I have myself an awesome partner, but I would get a mental win over the people the put me down and told me I could never have that. I would be the awesome guy that the awesome girl wants for once, instead of him, instead of the people that told me I was never good enough to be that guy.

 

And that makes her choice all the more heartbreaking, in my eyes. Not only did I fail again, but she actually found the manifestation of my tormentors to be more attractive in every way than myself. Once again, "they" won. It wasn't bad enough that "they" cause me to waste years of my life (and continue wasting them), but now "they" had to go and win the heart of the most amazing girl I've ever met.

 

It's hard not to be discouraged, because I don't believe I'll ever get away from guys like that. And by "guys like that", I don't mean guys who directly abuse me, but guys who see themselves as better than me, guys who actively devalue me to women and to the rest of the world. And from what I've seen, "they" always end up winning. If I meet an amazing girl, it doesn't matter how much we have in common, it doesn't matter how well we get along, there's always going to be a guy right around the corner that knows exactly what to say to make himself a more attractive option than me.

 

One thing you have over this hypothetical suicidal 14 year old, is that you are still alive. You are still here and they don't want to be. So what would you tell them to give the courage to keep going.

 

Think of it as letter you would write to them. What would you say to comfort them?

 

Yeah, I dunno, I'm still pondering this. I feel like I would probably echo a lot of the things you guys have told me, but that would make me quite the hypocrite, since I can't apply those things into my own life. I, myself, am not driven by "courage" to keep going, I'm driven by the desire to punish myself by having the most miserable life I can. I, myself, don't really want to "be here" anymore, but it's far more punishing to force myself to suffer it out.

 

See, I don't necessarily blame myself for getting bullied, but I do blame myself for succumbing to it, and for letting it stick with me as long as it has. I mean, at the end of the day, it's all in my head. They tortured me and made me feel like crap, but they never physically harmed me, my body and my life is still intact. It's all mental. Why couldn't I have just washed my hands of it when high school was over? Why couldn't I just leave it all behind and start fresh? Why couldn't I let it go and move on with my life? That's what I blame myself for, and that's why I have such strong feelings of disdain for myself. I'm weak. I'm submissive. I can't let go of things.

[Deciduous]

I guess, but I'm not really sure how I "attracted" anything into my life. It was completely out of my hands that I ended up working with a guy like this, that he came in and immediately viewed himself as better than me, and has tried to position himself over me any chance he gets. Not to mention, this doesn't really recreate the high school situation, in that there was never a girl involved, in high school. .

 

I see. So the relationship dynamics created here, are purely by chance. Rather like our abused female, who just happens to run into abusive men. Go figure. It's simply one of those inexplicable occurrences, that defies psychological explanation.

 

High school was just me trying to find people I fit in with, and falling in with a group that decided to spend every waking moment torturing me, telling me that I'm worthless, unlovable, that "no girl will ever like me", that I'm the "next 40-year old virgin" (er, the movie was new at the time, so that of course became their pun for a little while), that they're better than me. There was never a girl in high school that I was attracted to that chose them over me.

 

So the analogy just doesn't work? In fact, it is a mystery why I would introduce it. Just one of those mysterious Out-Of-Left-Field occurrences. Who knows what I was thinking? I'm sure you couldn't hazard a guess!

 

This guy at work has never been outwardly abusive in that same way (as in, telling me that I'm worthless and unlovable), but his general attitude and personality have always just rubbed me the wrong way. And again, every time there's a girl around, he has to take potshots at me and put me down so that he looks more attractive to that girl, and it seems to work in his favor. That's very frustrating to me, and I can't do a thing about it. In this modern situation, he is a representation of my tormentors from high school, in my mind.

 

Whoa!! What??? Your first paragraph starts with “there is simply no similarity. I can't see what you could be getting at”....it then ends here with... “In this modern situation, he is a representation of my tormentors from high school, in my mind.

 

Do you feel safe disagreeing, Matt, even if it makes no sense what so ever in the space of one paragraph?

 

I wonder why you would do that. I wonder what you get from disagreeing with posters. There must be some pay-off I wonder why it is important to you, because I have noticed it on many occasions. You wholeheartedly disagree with a poster, only to wholeheartedly agree them some five pages later.

 

Why do you think this happens? Why the distancing? I've also noticed when I write a rude, abrupt post you are very comfortable with replying, honestly. When I do an empathetic or kind post you become quite irritated.

 

What irritates you about kindness. What makes you feel uncomfortable? I've noticed you are very uneasy with it. As I said, in another post, this type alienation consistently goes on in this thread.

 

I wonder if this is to do with that self-punishment you were talking about earlier. When responders are being understanding and caring, perhaps, it means to you, we can't really see you as you are. We are mistaken about your worth. Yet when we are snappish and bullying, we are giving you your due worth – and therefore you respond openly.

 

Have you also noticed this patten, Matt?

 

When I fell head over heels for this girl at work, I was elated, but then when I noticed that he was after her, too, I felt a sense of urgency. I felt like, not only could I have myself an awesome partner, but I would get a mental win over the people the put me down and told me I could never have that. I would be the awesome guy that the awesome girl wants for once, instead of him, instead of the people that told me I was never good enough to be that guy.

 

And that makes her choice all the more heartbreaking, in my eyes. Not only did I fail again, but she actually found the manifestation of my tormentors to be more attractive in every way than myself. Once again, "they" won. It wasn't bad enough that "they" cause me to waste years of my life (and continue wasting them), but now "they" had to go and win the heart of the most amazing girl I've ever met.

 

Matt, the loss of this woman has been a loss on many different levels. You took a risk, extended your feelings, allowed your emotions to develop and hoped for the best. Like all of us who have had a romantic crush.

 

In this case you truly hoped her love would heal you and heal all that you have suffered. You hoped that she might emotionally save you, rescue you. We talked about this in an earlier post. The dynamics of this crush was set up to fail. It was about winning against old enemies, in your mind, whilst simultaneously not feeling worthy. You had something to prove whilst simultaneously feeling that you could never prove it. That you could never win.

 

I can see why you wanted to be with this girl. A win would have meant so much.

 

It's hard not to be discouraged, because I don't believe I'll ever get away from guys like that. And by "guys like that", I don't mean guys who directly abuse me, but guys who see themselves as better than me, guys who actively devalue me to women and to the rest of the world. And from what I've seen, "they" always end up winning. If I meet an amazing girl, it doesn't matter how much we have in common, it doesn't matter how well we get along, there's always going to be a guy right around the corner that knows exactly what to say to make himself a more attractive option than me.

 

This is a difficult one to answer. We all run up against obstacles. Yet the way we feel about ourselves can radically change the outcome. Can you envisage a time when you might run up against these guys and see them as non threatening? My question is why would you see them as non-threatening? What would have changed?

 

Yeah, I dunno, I'm still pondering this. I feel like I would probably echo a lot of the things you guys have told me, but that would make me quite the hypocrite, since I can't apply those things into my own life. I, myself, am not driven by "courage" to keep going, I'm driven by the desire to punish myself by having the most miserable life I can. I, myself, don't really want to "be here" anymore, but it's far more punishing to force myself to suffer it out.

 

See, I don't necessarily blame myself for getting bullied, but I do blame myself for succumbing to it, and for letting it stick with me as long as it has. I mean, at the end of the day, it's all in my head. They tortured me and made me feel like crap, but they never physically harmed me, my body and my life is still intact. It's all mental. Why couldn't I have just washed my hands of it when high school was over? Why couldn't I just leave it all behind and start fresh? Why couldn't I let it go and move on with my life? That's what I blame myself for, and that's why I have such strong feelings of disdain for myself. I'm weak. I'm submissive. I can't let go of things.

 

Okay lets change the scenario. What would you say to the 14 year old you? You sound very angry at him. You feel he has let you down. You have very little empathy for his predicament. We have spoken about the self-punishment that is going on here. So what would you say to him? What did you want him do, back then. How did you want him to respond 10 years again. What should he have said? What should he have done?

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

Hello Matt,

 

Just had a thought. I just reread your last paragraph and thought, this guy is a bloody Survivor. When life got so tough and so crap and so painful...he puts his socks on everyday and he went in.

 

Do you know want? I think is probably going to be one of the worst experiences of your young life. Yet you didn't run away, you didn't commit suicide – like so many of our poor teenagers who are swept up into these type of situations. So many of our children quit, the poor souls when they are faced with this.

 

You kept going. The school faculty were inept and frankly criminal if you ask me. You were so badly let down. You were alone, you didn't have the support of your peers and didn't have support from your family.

 

So what on earth kept you going? You should be telling us. You should be instructing us, mate. Because you did it. You came through it. You kept on going.

 

I know you won't get this now - you are quite young - but this is what makes a person. When life throws you a pile of crap for years and you come out the other side, then you are entitled to say f*** that s***, you thought you completely finished me - but I am still here.

 

When you look back on those people, isn't it funny that not one of them had the balls to stand up to the group. Could they have survived on their own? And they the brave ones??? Are they the well-adjusted members of society??? Are they???

 

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

Hello Matt,

 

Just had a thought. I just reread your last paragraph and thought, this guy is a bloody Survivor. When life got so tough and so crap and so painful...he puts his socks on everyday and he went in.

 

Do you know want? I think is probably going to be one of the worst experiences of your young life. Yet you didn't run away, you didn't commit suicide – like so many of our poor teenagers who are swept up into these type of situations. So many of our children quit, the poor souls when they are faced with this.

 

You kept going. The school faculty were inept and frankly criminal if you ask me. You were so badly let down. You were alone, you didn't have the support of your peers and didn't have support from your family.

 

So what on earth kept you going? You should be telling us. You should be instructing us, mate. Because you did it. You came through it. You kept on going.

 

I know you won't get this now - you are quite young - but this is what makes a person. When life throws you a pile of crap for years and you come out the other side, then you are entitled to say f*** that s***, you thought you completely finished me - but I am still here.

 

When you look back on those people, isn't it funny that not one of them had the balls to stand up to the group. Could they have survived on their own? And they the brave ones??? Are they the well-adjusted members of society??? Are they???

 

 

Deci

[Weeblie]

I really like what journeynow and itsallgrand have written here, here and here. You definitely need to be willing to be uncomfortable and it does takes time to see the change you want. But once you get started on it, it gets easier.

 

Many people trying to heal pain from their past by subconsciously recreating the same event.

 

I slightly disagree. I think it's not that they're trying to change the outcome of the past, it's that a healthy relationship feels wrong to them and abusive one feels normal. Even if they know the guy is a douche, a healthy relationship will probably feel uncomfortable and unsatisfying (because it lacks the highs and lows of an abusive one). It's basically bad programming and they need to input new programming in order to change. Which is why I suspect Matt's therapist suggested those two exercises.

 

Also, I know it feels like progress over analyzing the past, but so far he's got 19 pages of stuff that support his current beliefs and only a couple of lines to counteract those beliefs (the one time he did the good things exercise). There's a benefit to being aware of old habits and the source of them, but sometimes negative habits are easier to see once you've adopted a better habit.

 

@Matt, you've asked multiple times how exercising on top of your already physical job, would help. Call your therapist and ask her how it will help. She should have a proper answer for you. If not, then maybe you should find a therapist who's schedule works with yours and can explain why they ask you to do things.

[Deciduous]

Whoops. Sorry about double post. Internet on the blitz and keeps cutting out on me - Decixx

[MattW]

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing, I was just saying that the scenario is a bit different. Back in high school, there wasn't a girl I was aiming for, there wasn't any tangible "goal" that I felt like I was competing with them for, I was just trying to survive high school and get out. I don't disagree with the notion that this particular guy is a modern representation of those that tormented me, but this time, there was a bigger goal than "survive and get out". There was something that was very much on the line, something that meant so, so much to me, and not only did I fail to get it, but I have to sit by and watch him get it instead.

 

As far as disagreeing and distancing, I... well, I don't know. I'm not purposely trying to push you guys away, I guess it's something I do subconsciously for some reason. In my mind, I just have a hard time taking things at face value; if I have a different view on something, I'd like to state it to facilitate more of a discussion. But that's just my conscious mind talking.

 

 

 

Well, now you're asking some good questions that I unfortunately have no answers to, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

Not that I'm trying to disagree with what you said here, but getting a mental "victory" over my tormentors was a secondary perk. Primarily, I saw potential in this girl to be the best friend I've ever had, and I wanted that so bad. Don't get me wrong, having a social circle of friends would be nice, but I just wish so badly I could find someone that is so much more than that. A best friend, a lover, a life partner. I've really never seen that potential in anyone else before this girl came along, and that was my main motivation.

 

A "win" would have meant a lot. Honestly, that's something that I find highly discouraging, the fact that a "win" on any level is nigh impossible for me. Most people work hard and get little "wins" along the way, and that's what keeps them going, despite the obstacles and the setbacks. Me, if I work hard at something, I get no little "wins" to balance out the obstacles and setbacks, and after a point, that's just made me stop and wonder "Why bother?". The things I do never seem to count for anything, it's never enough to earn me even the tiniest victory, and that's where I feel a strong lack of motivation for anything.

 

 

 

Honestly? Not really. The world these days is kind of biased towards people like that. People that know how to sell themselves, people that are happy to throw others under the bus to make themselves seem better. People that don't care who they have to step on to get their way. These people are "sharks", and I might as well be a little bottom-feeding shrimp in comparison.

 

 

 

Eh... Honestly, if it were me I was talking to, I wouldn't be very nice at all. I'd tell that younger me that he's weak, pathetic, useless, and unlovable, and that he deserves everything that comes to him. I'd tell him how much of a waste his life is in the future, that it's not worth it, that the world would be a better place without him.

 

 

 

Hah. That's a very positive way to spin things, I suppose, but I don't have any uplifting pearls of wisdom that "got me through". I just shut down my mind, my emotions, I basically became a machine moving through life because that was the way I was programmed to. I wasn't brave, I wasn't courageous, I just shut down internally and let the world beat the **** out of me.

 

As for them, I dunno. I've occasionally looked them up in the past, but it always seemed like they were all doing better than me, and that depressed me. Not all of them actually pursued a good education and career, but they generally seemed happy with their lives and endeavors with how they turned out. Which kinda makes me more bummed out. Not that I'd ever wish bad things on someone, but where's the sense of karma in the world? Why can people get away with doing such horrible things for so long and then go on to live happily ever after, while someone like me gets smacked around by everyone and spends the remainder of his life being sad, alone, and miserable?

 

 

 

I don't disagree with your assessment, but I've trapped myself in a place where I won't allow myself to make the necessary changes to *maybe* have somewhat of a better life. Yes, I'm going around in circles, reaffirming my beliefs about myself, reexamining the past, and remaining inactive, but that's the first hurdle I have to deal with, I have to figure out how to break that cycle, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get myself to do it. You have no idea how how much I drive myself crazy, at this point. In between typing these sentences, I'm literally stopping and running my hands over my head wanting to pull my hair out.

[Weeblie]

1. So what are 3 good things that happened to you today?

 

2. Have you made another appointment with your therapist?

[Deciduous]

I don't disagree with your assessment, but I've trapped myself in a place where I won't allow myself to make the necessary changes to *maybe* have somewhat of a better life. Yes, I'm going around in circles, reaffirming my beliefs about myself, reexamining the past, and remaining inactive, but that's the first hurdle I have to deal with, I have to figure out how to break that cycle, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get myself to do it. You have no idea how how much I drive myself crazy, at this point. In between typing these sentences, I'm literally stopping and running my hands over my head wanting to pull my hair out.

 

Hi Mattw,

 

The post above is reminder of the early days of this thread. The circular thinking. It's like watching some-one fall back into into unconsciousness, when they have actually been consciously awake over the last few days.

 

Instead of saying "Why is the world doing this to me." you were beginning say "I understand that I have a desire to punish myself. I can see that this is coming from inside me."

 

You were becoming consciously aware of your motivations - and your part in this. You were becoming self aware, as journeynow pointed out, a few posts back.

 

At the beginning of this thread, we tried to move you forward too quickly. And the more we tried to push you forward, the more you became stuck. Like a car held in mud, the more we tried to force the wheels forward, the more entrenched in mud it becomes.

 

This is why we needed to go backwards.

 

I know it is terribly painful for you. Yet there was no moving forward, without looking at the past. You have actually made very good progress in the last few days. You have begin to confront that past. I know you didn't want to. You positively ran from it. Nevertheless you courageously faced it down in the end.

 

You are becoming aware that you identify with your bullies, that you emulate their behaviour towards yourself. You are becoming self-aware of why you need to punish yourself, Mattw - and like it or not that is progress, that is personal growth.

 

I'm sure you will have mixed feelings about, given the fact you feel that you don't deserve any thing more than contempt and punishment.

 

But part of you wants to live and receive love. That part is beginning to assert itself. This is why you opened a thread called "Journaling my personal growth" It is also why you agreed to go back into your painful past. You wanted answers.

 

And you are receiving them. You are beginning to work out what is subconsciously going on. Without that knowledge there can be no change.

 

I agree with weeblie. You honestly deserve face-to-face therapy, to go through this very, very painful journey. The bullying you survived at school was horrific and holds the key to much of your behaviour. That coupled with your family background, and lack of family support means we are moving into a very fragile area. There have been some very painful realisations over the past few days. Usually some-one would approach these feelings with some-one else in the room, to support them.

 

However I won't force you.

 

Yet in my heart, I fear that we are being forced to effect open heart surgery at the side of a motorway. As a human being, you deserve better than that. However, I do understand your blocks to going to therapy. You feel you are undeserving of support, compassion and attention - as you have told us on a few occassions. And therapy does not fit into your desire to punish yourself. And yet the paradox is, you are punishing yourself, for punishing yourself over the last few years.

 

Okay, we shall wait, maybe we will always be waiting, but for what ever reason you are making progress here, so let us keep with it until you feel able to communicate your pain to a therapist.

 

All the best

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

Hah. That's a very positive way to spin things, I suppose, but I don't have any uplifting pearls of wisdom that "got me through". I just shut down my mind, my emotions, I basically became a machine moving through life because that was the way I was programmed to. I wasn't brave, I wasn't courageous, I just shut down internally and let the world beat the **** out of me.

 

Oh, Matt, it is all spin. My perception, your perception. It is all spin. That's what feelings and perceptions are. Spin. My honest view of those events aren't any less real than yours.

 

You get that right. At a logical level, you get that?

[MattW]

1. So what are 3 good things that happened to you today?

 

Honestly, I really can't think of anything from yesterday. Did absolutely nothing in the morning, then had to work for about 8 hours (3 of which being around the girl I like), wanted to come home and have something to eat while watching a video like I do every Saturday night after work and ended up having a stupid little fight with my mom that soured me for the rest of the night.

 

I don't anticipate today being much better. Gotta go to a stupid store meeting in a little bit, then I have to come home and spend the whole day moving stuff around and reorganizing my computer area (which, the end result will be nice, but I just don't feel like doing the work at all).

 

2. Have you made another appointment with your therapist?

 

No. At this point, I really don't want to return to the first therapist I went to. I want to find someone else, but I haven't really been looking much, because I feel like I don't even know what to look for anymore, at this point. Therapist, psychologist, I don't know.

 

Yet in my heart, I fear that we are being forced to effect open heart surgery at the side of a motorway. As a human being, you deserve better than that. However, I do understand your blocks to going to therapy. You feel you are undeserving of support, compassion and attention - as you have told us on a few occassions. And therapy does not fit into your desire to punish yourself. And yet the paradox is, you are punishing yourself, for punishing yourself over the last few years.

 

Okay, we shall wait, maybe we will always be waiting, but for what ever reason you are making progress here, so let us keep with it until you feel able to communicate your pain to a therapist.

 

Yeah, I just feel like there are some major things I need to work out with myself in order to be able to commit to therapy. Unfortunately, these are things I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to fight and overcome for years now. I just can't get myself to work past them and get to the place I need to be. It's frustrating, and I question whether I'll ever reach the point I need to be at in order to be able to do what I need to do to have the life I want to have.

 

Oh, Matt, it is all spin. My perception, your perception. It is all spin. That's what feelings and perceptions are. Spin. My honest view of those events aren't any less real than yours.

 

You get that right. At a logical level, you get that?

 

Yeah, no, I didn't mean anything by it. I just have a hard time seeing the good in situations, and I especially don't like giving myself any kind of praise whatsoever.

 

Anyway, since this is a "journal" of sorts, I've been pondering a rather dreary thought overnight, and it's still on my mind. Maybe I'm just "supposed" to be a "loner". Maybe it REALLY doesn't matter what I want, maybe it doesn't matter how much I crave love, affection, and intimacy. Blah. I dunno. I'm sure this thought will fade later on, but still.

[Deciduous]

No. At this point, I really don't want to return to the first therapist I went to. I want to find someone else, but I haven't really been looking much, because I feel like I don't even know what to look for anymore, at this point. Therapist, psychologist, I don't know.

 

This isn't true for starters, Matt. You need to fight to stay awake. You are falling asleep again. You know what a therapist does. You know what a Psychiatrist does. But you don't believe you are deserving of either, which is why you haven't looked for one.

 

Do you see how your sentence above is not remotely linked to the truth. You have put your own spin on it. The spin is "I am incapable." That isn't remotely what is going on here. You have very specific reasons for not finding a therapist. You need to keep addressing those real reasons. Try to stay with the real reasons. Stop falling asleep.

 

Anyway, since this is a "journal" of sorts, I've been pondering a rather dreary thought overnight, and it's still on my mind. Maybe I'm just "supposed" to be a "loner". Maybe it REALLY doesn't matter what I want, maybe it doesn't matter how much I crave love, affection, and intimacy. Blah. I dunno. I'm sure this thought will fade later on, but still.

 

It's not a dreary thought at all. Maybe you are meant to be alone, and if you eventually choose that for yourself , I'm sure we, here at eNotalone, will support you. We are fantastic people after all. And it is a legitimate life-style choice.

 

But I've just come accross the strangest coincidence. I just re-read post #183

 

High school was just me trying to find people I fit in with, and falling in with a group that decided to spend every waking moment torturing me, telling me that I'm worthless, unlovable, that "no girl will ever like me", that I'm the "next 40-year old virgin"

 

Mattw, who is the doing the choosing, here? Why are you current throughts and the thoughts of the school bully so closely interlinked. Or is this simply one of those psychologically inexplicable coincidences you are so fond of believing in.

 

Try to stay awake Mattw. Over the last few days you've been sucessfully stepping back, and objectively analysing your thoughts. Now you are back to believing you are your thoughts (another sentence I have stolen from journeynow) You are falling asleep again.

 

Don't make me get the defibrilator out again.

 

Deci

[Weeblie]

No. At this point, I really don't want to return to the first therapist I went to. I want to find someone else, but I haven't really been looking much, because I feel like I don't even know what to look for anymore, at this point. Therapist, psychologist, I don't know.

 

Ok.

This is something I learned recently, if you don't know how to do something, just ask how. Growing up, I thought it was frowned upon to ask too many questions, so I tried to figure everything out on my own. That could only take me so far. Also, if it's something really uncomfortable to do like stepping into a pool of cold water, sometimes it's easier to jump in than to slowly acclimate yourself. Sometimes. Some people hate jumping in and have an easier time slowly acclimating.

[Deciduous]

Ok.

This is something I learned recently, if you don't know how to do something, just ask how.

 

Whoops. I think there is a bit of confusion. Matt knows the difference between a therapist and psychiatrist is as this was covered in #89 and #90 and #94.

 

This isn't about lack of knowledge. This is about self-hatred, as Matt is well aware.

 

Lack of knowledge is not a block here, or rather, it is pseudo block as we discovered on post #154. Even if you feed the information to Matt again, it will not unblock - because that isn't key to his problems.

 

Also, if it's something really uncomfortable to do like stepping into a pool of cold water, sometimes it's easier to jump in than to slowly acclimate yourself. Sometimes. Some people hate jumping in and have an easier time slowly acclimating.

 

I would hate to see responders falling into Matt's "dream world" where he is incapable and we need to feed him the answers. He already knows the answers and solutions to his problems. (This became clear when I stopped forcing my advice down his throat and started asking him questions)

 

But his self-hatred prohibits him from acting upon them.

 

He's not frightened to jump into the water. He doesn't jump because he doesn't believe he deserves the opportunity.

 

Weeblie, the more you attempt to push the OP forward, the more stuck in the mud he becomes. I noticed this in his earlier posts and I noticed this in his post yesterday.

 

He must go at his own speed and so far, is making good progress. No-one is expecting these patterns to disappear overnight. Psychologically speaking, that simply isn't possible.

 

Decixxx

[MattW]

This isn't true for starters, Matt. You need to fight to stay awake. You are falling asleep again. You know what a therapist does. You know what a Psychiatrist does. But you don't believe you are deserving of either, which is why you haven't looked for one.

 

Do you see how your sentence above is not remotely linked to the truth. You have put your own spin on it. The spin is "I am incapable." That isn't remotely what is going on here. You have very specific reasons for not finding a therapist. You need to keep addressing those real reasons. Try to stay with the real reasons. Stop falling asleep.

 

Yes, that's true. That's the problem I tend to keep coming back to, and I can't figure out how to overcome that. And that's kind of a big deal, isn't it? I mean, I don't believe I deserve anything I want, anything that can help me get better, anything at all. And when I believe I don't deserve any of that, it's nigh impossible to get myself to do much of anything.

 

It's not a dreary thought at all. Maybe you are meant to be alone, and if you eventually choose that for yourself , I'm sure we, here at eNotalone, will support you. We are fantastic people after all. And it is a legitimate life-style choice.

 

I really don't believe I'll ever "choose" that kind of life, though. I don't want that at all, it pains me at my very core to think of a life like that for myself. I want to have people in my life, I want so badly to fall in love and have an amazing partner. But I'm just wondering if maybe I'm dreaming of something I'll never come close to having.

 

Mattw, who is the doing the choosing, here? Why are you current throughts and the thoughts of the school bully so closely interlinked. Or is this simply one of those psychologically inexplicable coincidences you are so fond of believing in.

 

Try to stay awake Mattw. Over the last few days you've been sucessfully stepping back, and objectively analysing your thoughts. Now you are back to believing you are your thoughts (another sentence I have stolen from journeynow) You are falling asleep again.

 

I'm not denying the existence of a link there, I just don't quite understand it, and why I feel the way I do. I don't understand why I despise myself as much as I do, and why I'm trapping myself the way I am.

 

More thoughts for the day... The meeting at work kinda left me feeling half and half. I felt pleased with myself, because I kept making little jokes and whatnot to make it more entertaining. But I noticed the girl and her ex still kinda making little jokes to each other and giggling together. There were a couple of times where we all had to get up and go to another part of the store to watch some videos, and each time we did that, he would grab her and lean on her. I was kinda happy with myself because once while this was happening, she commented how she wished she had brought a chair, and he said to her "You can sit on my lap if you want". She didn't say anything, and this kind of annoyed me, and without thinking, I made the comment "I feel like that would be the equivalent of sitting on a public toilet", and she seemed to get a kick out of that little jab.

 

We also have a new female coworker he's pretty physically attractive, and I almost feel bad for saying this, but I REALLY hope this guy sets his sights on this new girl and starts flirting with her. It kinda looks like he's getting there with this new girl, so I'm hoping he starts directing his attention to her and maybe stop paying so much attention to the girl I like. Although, I sort of noticed the girl I like "noticing" her ex and this new girl being chummy, so that might actually make her jealous and have a worse effect...

 

I got to wondering, why is the "touch" barrier so hard for me to get past? I never purposely touch people, let alone girls, but that seems like an important step in building and developing intimacy between people. Like the aforementioned guy and girl at this morning's meeting, where he kept pulling her next to him and leaning on her, and she was just cool with it. He does stuff like that with her all the time, and it's no big deal. Yet, I feel like if I did that with her, it would be weird, and she wouldn't be happy with me. Heck, I feel like it'd be like that for me and any girl, really. And I also noticed the new girl comfortably kinda putting her feet up on this guy's chair against his side, and I was thinking "Geez, they've known each other for two weeks and they're already comfortable enough with each other to have that kind of dynamic?".

 

I REALLY want so badly to know what it feels like to have someone like that. Someone I'm "in" with, someone I can whisper with and giggle with and have little "in" jokes between us, someone that the touch barrier is fine being crossed with, someone that we have private intimate conversations and moments with, all of that. I want that SO badly, I want to know what that feels like, I just want it in my life, period. It hurts to not be able to have that, to see other people around me have that together, and more so, to see a girl I COULD have had exactly that with having that with some other guy instead. It's so frustrating and painful, and... ugh. I just wish I could have that. Why don't I ever get to know what that's like...? *sigh*

[penelope13]

It's great that you are starting to delve into your emotions in a much greater depth.

 

However, I am STRONGLY recommending that you continue this discovery path with a professional therapist who has the proper skill set not only to guide you through - and out - this difficult experience but also help you to emotionally heal in a safe and guided environment. While ENA is a fabulous place with many caring people, it has its limitations.

[MattW]

It's great that you are starting to delve into your emotions in a much greater depth.

 

However, I am STRONGLY recommending that you continue this discovery path with a professional therapist who has the proper skill set not only to guide you through - and out - this difficult experience but also help you to emotionally heal in a safe and guided environment. While ENA is a fabulous place with many caring people, it has its limitations.

 

I know, but I need to figure out how to stop disallowing myself from doing that, or anything else that could be potentially helpful to myself. A professional does me no good if I won't allow myself to go and to commit to it.

[penelope13]

You know that after every advice you have received you have come back with the question 'but how?' - I think a professional is much better equipped to provide some new perspective and ideas that may provide you with an answer that will work for you.

 

You don't have to figure out how to stop the disallowing yourself to receive help by yourself.

 

You probably know this: but there is an 'Expert Advice' tab here on ENA. You could try to ask for some help/ guidance there to help you with finding the right therapist (type of therapy) in your area