Journaling my "personal growth"

[MattW]

Fair enough, but it's not a "question" I'm actually trying to get you guys to answer for me. I know it's completely on me to figure that out and fix it so that I can get professional help to maybe help me along with the rest of my issues, but it's such a tough answer to come to, and I've been pondering it on some level for years now.

[penelope13]

You don't have to do the work by yourself, that's what these people have trained for: to help people get 'unstuck', to minimize the self loathing and to stop the self sabotaging.

 

I have read through your old threads. On some of them you have been remarkably honest. There is nothing you can tell them that a professional hasn't heard before or that can't be helped or that you need to be embarrassed about.

[Angler]

I know, but I need to figure out how to stop disallowing myself from doing that, or anything else that could be potentially helpful to myself. A professional does me no good if I won't allow myself to go and to commit to it.

 

I think you're going to have to tell your other half to shut the **** up for a little while, and just go do it.

[Deciduous]

Hi Matt,

 

Sounds like you had a pretty painful day. Nobody likes to witness extensive P.D.A.s of some-body they have a crush on. Must have hurt.

 

Anyway let me try and go through your post in order.

 

I'm not denying the existence of a link there, I just don't quite understand it, and why I feel the way I do. I don't understand why I despise myself as much as I do, and why I'm trapping myself the way I am.

 

Well, Matt, I guess it's a bit like brain-washing. If a group of people tell you the same thing over and over again, and act is a specific way towards you, it becomes very difficult not to believe their view.

 

Particularly when you are at a vulnerable age and seeking your own identity and without the support of your family behind you. Eventually you adopt it as your own truth. This isn't about weakness of mind or weakness of character, Mattw. Not at all. This is basic psychology. It was almost inevitable. Many people go through these experiences and have no idea that their self identity was culled from such negative interactions. It remains in the subconscious where they have no power of it whatsoever.

 

But you are becoming self-aware, Mattw.

 

I want to have people in my life, I want so badly to fall in love and have an amazing partner. But I'm just wondering if maybe I'm dreaming of something I'll never come close to having.

 

Well I think eventually it is going to come down to this;

 

Motivation (a)

I mean, I don't believe I deserve anything I want, anything that can help me get better, anything at all. And when I believe I don't deserve any of that, it's nigh impossible to get myself to do much of anything.

 

Motivation (b)

I REALLY want so badly to know what it feels like to have someone like that. Someone I'm "in" with, someone I can whisper with and giggle with and have little "in" jokes between us, someone that the touch barrier is fine being crossed with, someone that we have private intimate conversations and moments with, all of that. I want that SO badly, I want to know what that feels like, I just want it in my life, period.

 

At the moment there is a conflict raging. As you can see, these two desires are opposing It really depends which desire becomes the strongest over the coming months, or years.

 

But you are in a much stronger position than you were. You are developing the benefit of self-awareness. This means the final decision can be made consciously, as opposed to subconsciously which you have been doing for the last ten years.

 

All the best

 

Deci

[MattW]

I think you're going to have to tell your other half to shut the **** up for a little while, and just go do it.

 

Believe me, I've been trying to figure out how to do that for years, now, and "he" just won't listen. It's funny (in a sad sort of way), because you think that other half doesn't listen to you guys, but "he" doesn't listen to "me", either. This other half of me is sort of a weird amalgamation of my mother and my high school tormentors. Obviously, from my high school tormentors, this other half retains the "You're worthless, you're unlovable, you're a loser, you're not good enough". My mother, on the other hand, is very "strict" with me, in the sense that she's super nosy and constantly gives me grief and discourages me from doing things.

 

For example, since me leaving the house other than for work, school, or interning, is so unusual, any time I do it, she fires off a million questions, wondering where I'm going, who I'll be with, when I'll be back, etc., and she'll often try to talk me out of going (she practically begged me not to go out those handful of times I went out with some coworkers over the last year, one of those times even being for my birthday). Heck, I lied to her about having went to the therapy session I went to a couple weeks ago, because I knew if she knew the truth, I'd never hear the end of it. She'd say "That's stupid, that's a waste of time, you're not going, etc.". Heck, she kind of made a fuss when I started taking classes at this new school back in June, as well as when I started interning back in August. I've briefly made mention in the past to her about some day moving out and having my own place to live when I can afford it, and she flew off the handle every time, telling me that I can't take care of myself, shouldn't leave home, etc. Everything with her is just a constant fight, with her trying to control me and discourage me from living my life.

 

So, this "other half" of me is like my mother and my high school tormentors combined. That other half always tells me no, discourages me from doing anything, shuts down every option because "it's a waste of time", all while telling me that I'm worthless, unlovable, unattractive, and unfixable. I've been at the mercy of this other half for as long as I can remember, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to silence him once and for all. He's always there, and he's just too dominant for me to overcome.

 

Hi Matt,

 

Sounds like you had a pretty painful day. Nobody likes to witness extensive P.D.A.s of some-body they have a crush on. Must have hurt.

 

Yeah, but I mean, they do little stuff like that all the time. I just don't get why that's a barrier I can't ever cross, and that makes me feel kinda sad. Part of me wishes I knew one way or another whether or not they're actually together, because I constantly find myself wondering that, and that drives me crazy. But at the same time, if they ARE together, and I were to find that out with absolute certainty, it wouldn't really make me feel any better. Sometimes when he's not around, she'll say or imply things about him that I would think she wouldn't say were they actually together, and I'd also like to think she wouldn't have gotten a kick out of the little jab I took at him yesterday, if she were "with" him. But who knows?

 

I just wish I could have that with her, or someone just like her. It really bugs me to know someone I have more in common with than anyone before, someone I get along better with than anyone before, and yet, being anything more than "coworkers" (including platonic friendship) is just not on the table.

 

Well, Matt, I guess it's a bit like brain-washing. If a group of people tell you the same thing over and over again, and act is a specific way towards you, it becomes very difficult not to believe their view.

 

Particularly when you are at a vulnerable age and seeking your own identity and without the support of your family behind you. Eventually you adopt it as your own truth. This isn't about weakness of mind or weakness of character, Mattw. Not at all. This is basic psychology. It was almost inevitable. Many people go through these experiences and have no idea that their self identity was culled from such negative interactions. It remains in the subconscious where they have no power of it whatsoever.

 

But you are becoming self-aware, Mattw.

 

I guess that makes sense to me. Now if only I could figure out how to undo it and break the unrelenting vice grip I have on myself.

 

I'd say that I've always been a very "self-aware" person, to be honest, but I'm willing to admit that some of the perceptions and thoughts I've had about myself while being "self-aware" have been flawed.

 

Overall, I think it kind of helps to have some new perspective on things, from you, Deci. I've not seen you around these forums before, and up to now, everyone else that's responded to my journal have been people I've talked to on here for quite some time now, people I've mostly aggravated and annoyed, people who have understandably moved on to the "We've already told you what you need to do, now figure it out yourself" stage. I've been clashing heads with the same people for however many years, now, and while I still more than welcome the chance to talk to and interact with all of them, it's helpful to have someone new in the mix, someone I haven't been clashing with for ages now.

 

Well I think eventually it is going to come down to this;

 

Motivation (a)

 

 

Motivation (b)

 

 

At the moment there is a conflict raging. As you can see, these two desires are opposing It really depends which desire becomes the strongest over the coming months, or years.

 

Makes sense, but consciously, I very much want "motivation b", and I have yet to figure out how to make that side "win out".

 

Anyway, Deci, I was just curious, back when I wrote up that "history" of myself, you said something about responding to different sections of it later on. Just to temporarily get away from the high school experiences for a little while, I was just wondering if there was anything else from that post you had anything to say about.

[Deciduous]

Believe me, I've been trying to figure out how to do that for years, now, and "he" just won't listen. It's funny (in a sad sort of way), because you think that other half doesn't listen to you guys, but "he" doesn't listen to "me", either. This other half of me is sort of a weird amalgamation of my mother and my high school tormentors. Obviously, from my high school tormentors, this other half retains the "You're worthless, you're unlovable, you're a loser, you're not good enough". My mother, on the other hand, is very "strict" with me, in the sense that she's super nosy and constantly gives me grief and discourages me from doing things.

 

And bingo. You're on fire today. You are beginning to see the links and discover that the voice in your head that says. “Don't bother. You're not worth it,” isn't actually you.

 

It isn't imparting some deep wisdom about the reality of your life. It's just echoing very old encoded messages. By becoming self-aware you have already started the process of separating yourself from that little voice, but it takes time because it has been with you for so long.

 

Believe me, I've been trying to figure out how to do that for years, now, and "he" just won't listen. It's funny (in a sad sort of way), because you think that other half doesn't listen to you guys, but "he" doesn't listen to "me", either.

 

But is this really true, Mattw? On the surface you feel you have been fighting for years, but when we look under the surface we find that consciously you have wanted a girlfriend, friends and love and appreciation. But unconsciously you didn't.

 

It was like having your foot “consciously” on the accelerator and “unconsciously” on the brake. So the “car” was never going to move.

 

So in all honesty, the journey begins now. It wasn't taking place before. However, you weren't to know.

 

Usually in such situations, when people become consciously aware of what was taking place inside unconsciously, they experience an acute and very painful sense of loss, for the years that that they've lost.

 

I think this is what was going on last week. And I'm sure it will continue for now – and that is okay. In the same way a person grieves the loss of a cherished relationships by going through the stages of denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance – it is likely that those feelings will arise in you for the time being.

 

Then at the end of it, you are in a healthy place to start a new life, in the same way a heartbroken person can eventually open up to a new relationship. But it takes time to come to terms with everything.

 

I know you feel stuck now and it seems like the same-old-same-old, it really isn't. It is you trying to cope with new realisations. It is a necessary process. A lot of the hurt and chaos you are feeling now, was inevitable. Unavoidable. It's part of the journey and I really don't know how you would get to a place of peace without going through this first. If I did, I would honestly tell you.

 

For example, since me leaving the house other than for work, school, or interning, is so unusual, any time I do it, she fires off a million questions, wondering where I'm going, who I'll be with, when I'll be back, etc., and she'll often try to talk me out of going (she practically begged me not to go out those handful of times I went out with some coworkers over the last year, one of those times even being for my birthday). Heck, I lied to her about having went to the therapy session I went to a couple weeks ago, because I knew if she knew the truth, I'd never hear the end of it. She'd say "That's stupid, that's a waste of time, you're not going, etc.". Heck, she kind of made a fuss when I started taking classes at this new school back in June, as well as when I started interning back in August. I've briefly made mention in the past to her about some day moving out and having my own place to live when I can afford it, and she flew off the handle every time, telling me that I can't take care of myself, shouldn't leave home, etc. Everything with her is just a constant fight, with her trying to control me and discourage me from living my life.

 

Why do you think she is so “protective” of you. What does your Dad say. You mentioned that you feel his role is very passive in the house. Do you have a close relationship with him? It seems your Mother needs an awful lot from you, to the point of blocking you from “growing up” and moving on with your life as children inevitably do.

 

So, this "other half" of me is like my mother and my high school tormentors combined. That other half always tells me no, discourages me from doing anything, shuts down every option because "it's a waste of time", all while telling me that I'm worthless, unlovable, unattractive, and unfixable. I've been at the mercy of this other half for as long as I can remember, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how to silence him once and for all. He's always there, and he's just too dominant for me to overcome.

 

As I mentioned previously, that barrier couldn't have been breached in the past. A lot of “his” strength came from being hidden. A bit like a Trojan virus, embedded on a computer without the owner being aware. Systems start malfunctioning, but if you don't know why, you can hardly be expected to fix it. So lets just see what happens now it's been exposed. Let's just see.

 

Yeah, but I mean, they do little stuff like that all the time. I just don't get why that's a barrier I can't ever cross, and that makes me feel kinda sad. Part of me wishes I knew one way or another whether or not they're actually together, because I constantly find myself wondering that, and that drives me crazy. But at the same time, if they ARE together, and I were to find that out with absolute certainty, it wouldn't really make me feel any better. Sometimes when he's not around, she'll say or imply things about him that I would think she wouldn't say were they actually together, and I'd also like to think she wouldn't have gotten a kick out of the little jab I took at him yesterday, if she were "with" him. But who knows?

 

I just wish I could have that with her, or someone just like her. It really bugs me to know someone I have more in common with than anyone before, someone I get along better with than anyone before, and yet, being anything more than "coworkers" (including platonic friendship) is just not on the table.

 

In many ways the arrival of this girl has been very positive for you, because it has re-alerted you to fact that you do want love and companionship – and has caused you to start fighting. You said for a while you just shut yourself off emotionally and gave up on your dream.

 

She's woken you up, so from that prospective it has been positive. But we have to bear in mind, what you really crave is a real relationship with some-body who cares about you and wants to be with you. Some-one who is emotionally available to you. At some point you will need to ask yourself if this specific person is capable of now giving you what you need, want and desire. Is she truly emotionally equipped to give you what you need. However, no-one is expecting you to immediately switch off your feelings for her. You have come to care about her deeply and whilst acknowledging that fact, you should simultaneously acknowledge that she may not be capable of providing you with what you need.

 

Overall, I think it kind of helps to have some new perspective on things, from you, Deci. I've not seen you around these forums before, and up to now, everyone else that's responded to my journal have been people I've talked to on here for quite some time now, people I've mostly aggravated and annoyed, people who have understandably moved on to the "We've already told you what you need to do, now figure it out yourself" stage. I've been clashing heads with the same people for however many years, now, and while I still more than welcome the chance to talk to and interact with all of them, it's helpful to have someone new in the mix, someone I haven't been clashing with for ages now.

 

Cheers, Matt. Kind of you say. Don't worry. I can take it. I know Tai-chi!!

 

Makes sense, but consciously, I very much want "motivation b", and I have yet to figure out how to make that side "win out".

 

Anyway, Deci, I was just curious, back when I wrote up that "history" of myself, you said something about responding to different sections of it later on. Just to temporarily get away from the high school experiences for a little while, I was just wondering if there was anything else from that post you had anything to say about.

 

Actually it was about the relationship with your Mother, that I was going to go onto, so you have some-what beaten me to punch with this post.

 

I think it is very difficult to set boundaries with a parent, and transform the relationship from the Child-Parent dynamic to the Adult-Parent dynamic. It's difficult to objectively transform that relationship, when it has become so complex. For most people their parents are their role model and emotional guide. But if you cannot get it from them, what do you do to receive that critical emotional nurturing.

 

How do you learn to nurture yourself, if the template is not passed down from your parents?

 

Bearing this in mind, I think you can see why there has been such a hullabaloo about therapy in this thread. Usually therapy is 30% about what they say and 70% about the nurturing relationship that teaches you how to nurture for yourself. (This is of course, when you get a compatible therapist and one you respect - and not like the first one I experienced in post#6. Yikess!!!)

 

There are many people who didn't have the benefit of nurturing and emotionally healthy parents, so they have been forced to look elsewhere to see how it is done.

 

My question is, how does one go about effecting that natural emotional separation, between parent and child, so they can eventually be an adult who is able to determine the direction of his own life. That includes their own thoughts, ideas and who they want to be emotionally speaking.

 

It is a tricky question and probably needs more than a little thought.

 

Deci

[MattW]

Well, sure, it's great that I'm figuring this stuff out, and all, but the "other half" is still there, holding me down. I don't know that simply becoming aware to all of this and having a better understanding of it will get me to a place where I'm not succumbing to that "other half" anymore, you know?

 

 

 

Yeah, my dad is really pretty passive to life in general. He doesn't seem to take offense to me "growing up" and venturing out into the world, the way my mom does. She'll fight with me about that stuff and try to get him on her side, and he'll always kind of have a "Who cares? Let him do what he wants" sort of attitude, but he'll bow out and not take sides, and let my mom and I battle it out.

 

 

 

See, one thing that kind of concerns me, though, is whether someone that can give me what I "need" will also be able to give me what I "want". If I had to "rate" this girl based on a letter system, with "A" being the highest, I'd say this girl would rate as an "A" on my personal attraction scale. She's the only girl I've ever felt that way about. Maybe I can meet a girl that will like me, but what if she's only a "B" or "C" from my perspective? Now that I've seen what an "A" looks like, that's what I want. I'm afraid my only option from here on out will be to settle for a "B" or "C", and that seems kind of depressing to me. I don't want to settle for a "B" or a "C". I want an "A", but the only "A" I've ever found is right in front of me, and I just don't get to be with her because she doesn't see what I see.

 

But yeah, meeting this girl has really sent me on a roller coaster ride of emotion. Prior to asking her out, when I thought I had a chance, I saw it as a big positive, the way you described, and I felt better than I've ever felt before, because it made me realize how much I hated being "emotionally shut down", hopeless. But after being rejected, after seeing her date someone else, after she pushed me away for a while, after having to watch her now maybe rekindling a romance with a guy I hate, I feel worse than I've ever felt. It makes me feel like it wasn't worth it at all to turn my emotions back on and start thinking about love again, because now I can't turn them off again, and all I feel is bad.

[jenny_mcs]

Sad really. At the start of this thread you had just seen a therapist for the first time and she had given you actual concrete things to do.

 

Now a few weeks later and you're back to where you started- no more therapy appointments, didn't even try to follow the advice she gave you, and back to talking about that girl from the store, saying the same things about her over and over and over and over and over.

[Deciduous]

Oh, Goodness, now those are universal fears. Everybody who's ever fallen in love and lost love, has precisely those fears. Particularly if this is the first time. We have all been there.

 

And it is true, everybody is unique and they have unique characteristics which you may never forget...and yet...and yet...statistically the average person falls in love four times in a life-time. So what a fickle, fickle bunch we are at heart.

 

But I get what you are saying. Because you are introverted, it might be difficult for you to build a rapour as strong as this with some-one else. Perhaps! But given you have done it once, it does follow that you will probably do it again.

 

I hate to be so blunt and logical, but this is what it infers. And yes, that person will be different from this person, they will have different qualities, they will have different things that are cute about them, but that does not mean they will be less meaningful to you.

 

Everbody on the planet who has fallen in love for the first time, always swears they could never love again. Always. Always. Always. But if they'd all stuck to their promise, the human race would have been long gone, by now.

 

Look Mattw, you took an emotional risk after being "dead" for so long. You allowed yourself to connect with some-one. You got to know some-one and you hoped for the best. You opened yourself up and you lost. At one time or another we have all opened ourselves up and lost. We have all been in love and lost and some point. Have you seen this web-site? It happens.

 

This isn't sign that you should shut yourself down and stick to "b's" and "c's" in future. It is only a sign that sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we don't. But at the end of the day, the fears you are talking about, well they are universal. They come with the territory of being emotionally open.

 

Deci

[Angler]

I just don't get to be with her because she doesn't see what I see.

This isn't the first time you've suggested that her not wanting to be with you is some sort of a flaw in judgement.How many times have people here given you advice, and your response is "I can't see why....I just don't see how..."I think the truth is, she sees what you DON'T see.

[penelope13]

Sad really. At the start of this thread you had just seen a therapist for the first time and she had given you actual concrete things to do.

 

Now a few weeks later and you're back to where you started- no more therapy appointments, didn't even try to follow the advice she gave you, and back to talking about that girl from the store, saying the same things about her over and over and over and over and over.

 

I agree: you seemed to finally be at a point where you were willing to start taking some ACTIONS. What happened to that resolve?

[Deciduous]

Sad really. At the start of this thread you had just seen a therapist for the first time and she had given you actual concrete things to do.

 

Now a few weeks later and you're back to where you started- no more therapy appointments, didn't even try to follow the advice she gave you, and back to talking about that girl from the store, saying the same things about her over and over and over and over and over.

 

See Matt,

 

That right there is why I don't think this is a safe environment for you to go through deeply personal changes. I think this precisely what penelope is talking about in post #198.

 

These comments will keep putting you down and you don't deserve that.

 

Who can effect positive changes when being battered with comments like that? How does belittling a person's experience help them to build up their confidence??? Is this a little know psychological strategy??

 

This isn't the first time you've suggested that her not wanting to be with you is some sort of a flaw in judgement.How many times have people here given you advice, and your response is "I can't see why....I just don't see how..."I think the truth is, she sees what you DON'T see.

 

Well then stop giving advice. Why don't you try listening for a minute. Are you expecting him to magically turn his feelings off overnight. Is that how it works????

 

Deci

[blueidealist24]

I agree with Deciduous. Most people in this thread (her and a few others who I can't remember the names of excluded) are just kicking you when you're down. On one hand I can see how they're frustrated because you've posted so many threads, but if they're just going to repeat that you're being silly etc. and point out more faults for you to feel bad about, they probably shouldn't even come to this thread anymore. For example, you finally came around to the idea that you should see a therapist, which I commend you for.. but then other people made you feel bad by saying you didn't find out enough about her background, or that she was the wrong kind of therapist and blah blah blah. My opinion was at this point any therapist, psychologist, counselor, whatever, is better than none.

[MattW]

Sad really. At the start of this thread you had just seen a therapist for the first time and she had given you actual concrete things to do.

 

Now a few weeks later and you're back to where you started- no more therapy appointments, didn't even try to follow the advice she gave you, and back to talking about that girl from the store, saying the same things about her over and over and over and over and over.

 

This isn't the first time you've suggested that her not wanting to be with you is some sort of a flaw in judgement.How many times have people here given you advice, and your response is "I can't see why....I just don't see how..."I think the truth is, she sees what you DON'T see.

 

Look, guys, I know it's frustrating to watch me constantly go in circles, and take one step forward then three steps back. But it's frustrating for me, too. Unfortunately, I don't have the willpower, the wherewithal, the fortitude, to be able to just go "Oh, yes, you guys are right. I'll do this, this, and this, and oh look, I'm all good now!". I'm beyond tired of being hung up on the same things, having the same thoughts, the same feelings, cycling through all of this stuff over and over. But I just haven't figured out how to break out of my cycle, how to break out and STAY out, how to get away from it all and start fresh. All of this stuff makes me hurt. I've been hurting for years, now. I'm STILL hurting. I know you guys probably just think I'm playing games or screwing around or getting some weird satisfaction out of all of this, but I'm not. I'm completely miserable, but I've trapped myself in this cycle, and I won't let myself out. I WANT to get out, but I don't know how.

 

I'm sorry if you're sick of it. How do you think I feel? I'm sorry if I'm such a nuisance, but I don't foresee myself working through my problems in a relatively quick amount of time. If you're that sick of me, perhaps start visiting my journal only once a month or once every other month (it'll still be here), and if my progress isn't to your liking and you don't want to chime in, check back in in another month or two, and so on and so forth.

 

I agree with Deciduous. Most people in this thread (her and a few others who I can't remember the names of excluded) are just kicking you when you're down. On one hand I can see how they're frustrated because you've posted so many threads, but if they're just going to repeat that you're being silly etc. and point out more faults for you to feel bad about, they probably shouldn't even come to this thread anymore. For example, you finally came around to the idea that you should see a therapist, which I commend you for.. but then other people made you feel bad by saying you didn't find out enough about her background, or that she was the wrong kind of therapist and blah blah blah. My opinion was at this point any therapist, psychologist, counselor, whatever, is better than none.

 

Yeah, I mean... I don't want to be the guy that cries out "I'm so misunderstood!", or anything, but I think a lot of the people that have gotten to the point of frustration with me just really don't understand what it's like to have lived the kind of life I've lived. I'd wager a bet that most of these people have had relatively normal family lives, social lives, and love lives. Yeah, I'm sure you guys have had your fair share of heartbreak and setbacks, and whatnot, but how many of you have been through all the things I've been through? How many of you have horrible family lives AND were tortured and abused by peers for several years AND have been outcast and rejected by pretty much everyone AND have never been able to find mutual attraction, etc.? I hate to admit it, because I've already lost so many years already, but there's a very real chance that I'll be struggling with these problems for several years to come, if not for the remainder of my entire life.

 

I agree: you seemed to finally be at a point where you were willing to start taking some ACTIONS. What happened to that resolve?

 

The lack of chemistry with that first therapist made me feel questionable about returning, and then when everyone here started coming down on me for not doing the research and not knowing about the difference between therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, and all of that, I just felt bad and confused, and I basically relapsed into the way I was before.

 

Oh, Goodness, now those are universal fears. Everybody who's ever fallen in love and lost love, has precisely those fears. Particularly if this is the first time. We have all been there.

 

And it is true, everybody is unique and they have unique characteristics which you may never forget...and yet...and yet...statistically the average person falls in love four times in a life-time. So what a fickle, fickle bunch we are at heart.

 

But I get what you are saying. Because you are introverted, it might be difficult for you to build a rapour as strong as this with some-one else. Perhaps! But given you have done it once, it does follow that you will probably do it again.

 

I hate to be so blunt and logical, but this is what it infers. And yes, that person will be different from this person, they will have different qualities, they will have different things that are cute about them, but that does not mean they will be less meaningful to you.

 

Everbody on the planet who has fallen in love for the first time, always swears they could never love again. Always. Always. Always. But if they'd all stuck to their promise, the human race would have been long gone, by now.

 

Look Mattw, you took an emotional risk after being "dead" for so long. You allowed yourself to connect with some-one. You got to know some-one and you hoped for the best. You opened yourself up and you lost. At one time or another we have all opened ourselves up and lost. We have all been in love and lost and some point. Have you seen this web-site? It happens.

 

This isn't sign that you should shut yourself down and stick to "b's" and "c's" in future. It is only a sign that sometimes we get lucky and sometimes we don't. But at the end of the day, the fears you are talking about, well they are universal. They come with the territory of being emotionally open.

 

If we're getting technical, this current girl is actually the second girl I've ever had strong feelings for. There was the girl from childhood (grade school) that I reconnected with about five years ago who I was totally head over heels for. I was devastated by her rejection for at least a year, as well (though it helped that she wasn't still present in my life, like this current girl is), and at the time, I thought I'd never feel that way for someone again. So on one hand, I know firsthand that it's a bit silly to say "I'll never fall in love again!".

 

But at the same time, looking back, I was in love with that first girl for all the wrong reasons. I wasn't in love with her, I was in love with a pure fantasy of some imaginary girl that just happened to look exactly like her. Hell, when I got back in touch with her, I never even had any direct contact with her. All I knew about the adult her was what she had on her MySpace profile, and what she would say to me when we messaged back and forth. I was chasing after a grade school crush that was based on absolutely nothing except strong feelings I felt for her as a child. I was completely head over heels for a girl I literally knew nothing about.

 

This current girl was never about the "fantasy". I fell for her because of who she is as a person. I fell for her because she actually fascinated me in a way no one else has. I could talk to her in a way I couldn't do with anyone else. I could make her smile in a way I couldn't do with anyone else. She made me think, she made me laugh, she quite literally made me feel things that were long dormant in me, she made me really want to push myself harder than I've ever pushed myself.

 

Perhaps "falling in love" again isn't what really worries me, so much as what the circumstances are. "Falling in love" actually means nothing, because it can happen for all the wrong reasons. What if, some day, I do "fall in love" again, but it's more similar to the first girl than the second girl? Worse yet, what if we actually get together, and end up having a bad breakup because it was for all the wrong reasons? If I "fall in love" again, I want it to be like the second girl, I want it to be for the right reasons, I want it to be with someone that I can genuinely be happy with. But what if it's not?

[blueidealist24]

I kind of understand your issues since my father is kind of like your mother (what with the controlling behavior, not necessarily being promiscuous and stuff like that), and while I wasn't bullied as badly as you were, I experienced a stint of bullying when I was 12-13, which left me fairly unpopular in high school, since even though the bullying stopped my low status on the social meter lived on a bit. When I was around 15-18 I had some of the same problems you're having now, feeling like I couldn't get much of a social life going and that people just didn't like me. A lot of that was remedied when I moved away for college and became more outgoing just by being placed in a new environment where nobody knew anything about me or my past social status. Luckily this college offered a good environment for me (another college I attended for one semester was nothing like it.. I also had almost no friends there), if not, I probably would still be in the same place that you are in now.

[bulletproof]

 

Who can effect positive changes when being battered with comments like that? How does belittling a person's experience help them to build up their confidence??? Is this a little know psychological strategy??

 

Well then stop giving advice. Why don't you try listening for a minute. Are you expecting him to magically turn his feelings off overnight. Is that how it works????

 

 

But aren't you doing the same exact thing by speaking to people this way?

 

Everyone is allowed to give advice as they see fit. And while it might not be considered a "psychological strategy" per se, I know that at my lowest points in life I often needed someone to tell me the truth, and offer me real solutions, as opposed to coddling me. That's not to say that everyone reacts the same way to certain interventions. We really don't know what "works" with the o.p., because nothing has yet.

[Deciduous]

But aren't you doing the same exact thing by speaking to people this way?

 

Everyone is allowed to give advice as they see fit. And while it might not be considered a "psychological strategy" per se, I know that at my lowest points in life I often needed someone to tell me the truth, and offer me real solutions, as opposed to coddling me. That's not to say that everyone reacts the same way to certain interventions. We really don't know what "works" with the o.p., because nothing has yet.

 

Hello Bulletproof,

 

I owe you, Jenny and Angler an apology. I realise I've caused great deal of offence. It's been impressed upon me that the folks on this thread genuinely want to assist the OP and feel they are acting in his best interests.

 

Once again, I apologise.

 

Deci

[penelope13]

Quote Originally Posted by penelope13 View Post

I agree: you seemed to finally be at a point where you were willing to start taking some ACTIONS. What happened to that resolve?

 

The lack of chemistry with that first therapist made me feel questionable about returning, and then when everyone here started coming down on me for not doing the research and not knowing about the difference between therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, and all of that, I just felt bad and confused, and I basically relapsed into the way I was before.

 

Hi Matt,

 

would you mind answering a few straight forward questions with either Yes or No? No explanation necessary (for 2 reasons: a) to help you focusing your brain on any question without allowing yourself to overthink b) the explanation can probably be found in one of your threads, thus let's try to spend your time and energy on new thoughts. Please try to just answer the question itself without thinking about follow up questions (such as how, what's the point, how does this get me more potential dates, that's how i've always been - last one is not a question)

 

 

1. Do you want to get better?

Better = less anxiety, less fears, less sense of confusion, less sense of loss of direction, more energy, better focus on tasks at hand, more motivational stamina, more control over your own thought processes and decision making, less 'internal battle'

 

2. Are you willing to give 'increase in physical activity' another shot (provided someone could explain why physical activity at work is NOT the same as 'physical activity by itself')?

 

 

3. Are you hesitant to go back to the therapist (or an alternative person) because you weren't able yet to follow through with the 2 suggestions you received (physical activity/ think of 3 things to be grateful for)?

[Deciduous]

Well, sure, it's great that I'm figuring this stuff out, and all, but the "other half" is still there, holding me down. I don't know that simply becoming aware to all of this and having a better understanding of it will get me to a place where I'm not succumbing to that "other half" anymore, you know?

 

Matt,

 

I can understand your frustration. But whilst it's a hidden voice, saying "you don't deserve therapy and you don't deserve help.” you are unable to argue against it. Because it is occurring at a subconscious level, where you have no hope of fighting it. For years you thought these opinions were real and adopted them for yourself.

 

It's only now you are becoming aware that your thoughts are just old encoded messages from your Mum and school bullies. They are coming from outside of you. They were taught to you.

 

I know you don't think this self-awareness is helping you now – or will ever help - but it is the beginning. The beginning of you separating yourself from the views of the school bullies and your Mother.

 

It is the beginning of that journey. But it is going to take time to stop believing those thoughts. They ran the show for a very long time.

 

Once you are consciously aware of where these thoughts are where they coming from, you are in a stronger position to start questioning their advice. Do you see? In post #205 you started to identify thier origins. You are beginning to understand this at a logical level, but it will take time to absorb it at an emotional level.

 

But I promise you, this process is happening under the surface. It's slow and doesn't happen over night.

 

All the best

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

I think we can worry an awful lot about the future. And lets face it, it's an absorbing subject. We all wonder about it. In regards to the paragraph above, I think a lot of these fears are universal fears and come with the territory of being emotionally open and taking risks to love some-one.

 

We can't possibly know whether the next girl fall for is going to be emotionally right for you. Who can reassure you on that? We could ponder that for decades and still not have the answers. We can't tell the future. The only thing within your realm of power is getting to an emotionally health place where you are able to make emotionally sound choices.

 

That's all you really have control of. You, basically.

 

How did the day go today?

 

Deci

[MattW]

Hi Matt,

 

would you mind answering a few straight forward questions with either Yes or No? No explanation necessary (for 2 reasons: a) to help you focusing your brain on any question without allowing yourself to overthink b) the explanation can probably be found in one of your threads, thus let's try to spend your time and energy on new thoughts. Please try to just answer the question itself without thinking about follow up questions (such as how, what's the point, how does this get me more potential dates, that's how i've always been - last one is not a question)

 

I suppose.

 

1. Do you want to get better?

Better = less anxiety, less fears, less sense of confusion, less sense of loss of direction, more energy, better focus on tasks at hand, more motivational stamina, more control over your own thought processes and decision making, less 'internal battle'

 

Deep down, yes.

 

2. Are you willing to give 'increase in physical activity' another shot (provided someone could explain why physical activity at work is NOT the same as 'physical activity by itself')?

 

Honestly? Not really.

 

3. Are you hesitant to go back to the therapist (or an alternative person) because you weren't able yet to follow through with the 2 suggestions you received (physical activity/ think of 3 things to be grateful for)?

 

I hadn't thought about it like that, but yes, I suppose that's one reason (though I still didn't really "like" this first therapist I talked to).

 

Once you are consciously aware of where these thoughts are where they coming from, you are in a stronger position to start questioning their advice. Do you see? In post #205 you started to identify thier origins. You are beginning to understand this at a logical level, but it will take time to absorb it at an emotional level.

 

But I promise you, this process is happening under the surface. It's slow and doesn't happen over night.

 

I really hope you're right.

 

I think we can worry an awful lot about the future. And lets face it, it's an absorbing subject. We all wonder about it. In regards to the paragraph above, I think a lot of these fears are universal fears and come with the territory of being emotionally open and taking risks to love some-one.

 

We can't possibly know whether the next girl fall for is going to be emotionally right for you. Who can reassure you on that? We could ponder that for decades and still not have the answers. We can't tell the future. The only thing within your realm of power is getting to an emotionally health place where you are able to make emotionally sound choices.

 

That's all you really have control of. You, basically.

 

Yeah, no, I know. It's just... extra scary when I have no prior history. Most "normal" people date a decent amount of people, and have at least a handful of fairly serious relationships throughout their lives. Me even finding a girl I'm attracted to enough to want to go on a date with is like finding a needle in a haystack; finding a girl that's attracted to me is extremely unlikely. Finding a girl I share a mutual attraction with just seems like an impossible event, at this point.

 

How did the day go today?

 

Eh, about the same as any other day, really. Weather is starting to get unpleasant. Went to class this morning, came home for a little while to grab a light snack, went to intern, came home and at a TV dinner, then got online to do whatever, and here I am. In another hour or so, I'm gonna get in my nice warm bed and watch some stuff on TV, while wishing I didn't have to go to work tomorrow morning.

[penelope13]

Great.

 

Would you consider this a fair assessment:

 

-

Quote Originally Posted by penelope13 View Post

1. Do you want to get better?

Better = less anxiety, less fears, less sense of confusion, less sense of loss of direction, more energy, better focus on tasks at hand, more motivational stamina, more control over your own thought processes and decision making, less 'internal battle'

Deep down, yes.

 

Despite all the things that seem to pull you down and make you doubtful - YOU ACTUALLY RESPONDED IN A POSITIVE MANNER

 

 

Quote Originally Posted by penelope13 View Post

2. Are you willing to give 'increase in physical activity' another shot (provided someone could explain why physical activity at work is NOT the same as 'physical activity by itself')?

Honestly? Not really.

 

You managed to be completely honest, although you probably assumed it's not what I hoped to read --> THIS IS PART OF BECOMING CONFIDENT AND OWNING WHO YOU ARE: NOT MAKING EXCUSES, NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY CHOICES, NOR TRYING TO HIDE SOMETHING

 

Quote Originally Posted by Deciduous View Post

Once you are consciously aware of where these thoughts are where they coming from, you are in a stronger position to start questioning their advice. Do you see? In post #205 you started to identify thier origins. You are beginning to understand this at a logical level, but it will take time to absorb it at an emotional level.

 

But I promise you, this process is happening under the surface. It's slow and doesn't happen over night.

I really hope you're right.

 

This is one of the very few times, where you respond in a positive manner without any other additional remark to diminish your positive reaction.

 

 

==> In a single post you have managed to do 3 positive little steps.

 

==> I think you can tick off today as a day where you worked towards improving your mind set

[MattW]

If you say so. I don't know if I necessarily see that (but I'm still of a more "pessimistic" mind), but I won't argue if you say you can see me making progress. *shrug*

[penelope13]

If you say so. I don't know if I necessarily see that (but I'm still of a more "pessimistic" mind), but I won't argue if you say you can see me making progress. *shrug*

 

I'll take it: it's a step forward from you denying the possibility or trying to convince me why I'm wrong

[blueidealist24]

If you say so. I don't know if I necessarily see that (but I'm still of a more "pessimistic" mind), but I won't argue if you say you can see me making progress. *shrug*

 

I noticed that too. I also noticed that you telling the people who weren't being that supportive to just come back and visit your thread once a month or so if they're frustrated was a positive change in behavior, too. You were kind of defending yourself, but not by making excuses like you were before.