Journaling my "personal growth"

[Deciduous]

I hope that during all this "oh this is the last time I'm going to see her" obsessing - you start to realize that there is a HUGE potential that this guy may turn into a real friend outside work!!!!!

 

Very much agree. Opportunities come in funny shapes and sizes, sometimes. Frankly I don't know what else this guy has to do. It's precisely what you ordered, Matt, A social life. It's being handed to you on a plate. Now it is here, you say no thanks???

 

Sorry to hear about the girl leaving. I've no doubt it's come as a horrible blow. I not saying you shouldn't grieve her departure. I am saying that this exactly the time that you do not want to sit at home, wallowing in isolation.

 

One door has closed. Another has opened. And who knows when it will open again. So are you going to walk through this one?

 

Deci

[MattW]

I hope that during all this "oh this is the last time I'm going to see her" obsessing - you start to realize that there is a HUGE potential that this guy may turn into a real friend outside work!!!!!

 

Yeah, no, I know. He's alright, and he could become a friend, but given what I know about his personality and our chemistry up to this point, I don't have super high hopes or expectations for him. Meanwhile, a girl that I enjoy being around more than anyone I've ever met is leaving in less than two weeks.

 

I'm, of course, going to try to see things through with this guy, it just sort of feels like I'm "settling" for an okay (yet somewhat questionable) guy I can be friends with, while a person I want so badly to be friends with is about to exit my life. Basically, I'm willing to give this guy a chance, I'm just not feeling particularly "excited" about it, and in comparison to what's going away, it's just hard not to focus on the loss.

[penelope13]

A person doesn't have to be 'perfect' to be a friend.

 

You CAN choose to focus on the gain. And this guy is GIVING YOU A CHANCE.

Try to be a bit positive and give him a chance. He is willing to do the same for you and I'm sure you wouldn't like to be considered 'settling for'

[MattW]

No, I know, it's just the idea of what's being "traded off", so to speak. It's good to have an opportunity, but it's hard to focus on that when what seems to be a much more attractive opportunity has been lost and is about to go away forever.

[penelope13]

that opportunity really wasn't there, although you WANTED it to be there.

 

this guy is OFFERING you social interaction; the girl NEVER offered you a romantic opportunity.

[MattW]

True, but that doesn't change my perceived value of things. I valued the idea of her much more than the idea of him. That doesn't mean I'll reject this opportunity with him, it's just not the opportunity I really wanted, and it's depressing to see the opportunity I wanted the most just disappearing for good.

 

I'll see what happens with this guy in the future, but I just don't see myself being able to stop feeling bad and missing this girl when she's gone. She just means too much to me.

[blueidealist24]

Honestly, I'm starting to believe they don't spend as much time together outside of work as I feared that they had. Actually, the other day when he was talking to me about hanging out, he was under the impression I was hanging out with her outside of work regularly. Don't know where he got that notion from.

 

I think you could be right. It sounds like she's one of those super-friendly people who gives the other person (and outsiders) that there's more going on than there actually is.

[blueidealist24]

btw, I meant to say gives the other person (and outsiders) the impression

[agent1607307371]

I valued the idea of her much

 

 

I think this is a very important point here. You valued the idea of her. You didn't really know her, it wasn't her you wanted. It was what you thought she was, and what you thought she represented. All this suffering over something that doesn't even exist.

[MattW]

I think this is a very important point here. You valued the idea of her. You didn't really know her, it wasn't her you wanted. It was what you thought she was, and what you thought she represented. All this suffering over something that doesn't even exist.

 

Honestly, I still disagree with this very much. I mean, sure, you can say that she wasn't personally attracted to me, and I get that, but it wasn't some fantasy or idea I was chasing after. I genuinely liked her for her, her personality, her beliefs and opinions, her ambitions, hell, even her little quirks. This is the only time I've ever really been drawn to someone because of who they are as a person, and that's kind of a big deal to me, because that's what I want. I don't disagree that there are big chunks of her life that I don't know about, but isn't that how dating is, anyway? You're attracted to someone based on what you see of them, and get to know them further when you date? I feel like I've seen enough of her that I know I'm attracted to her, and had we dated, I really don't think there's anything I would've learned about her that would make me question sticking with her.

 

But I've never been stuck on any kind of "fantasy" with this girl. My feelings are based on things that have actually happened. Discussions we've had, laughs we've shared, moments we've had together. Those were some of the best times I've ever had with another person, times I never wanted to stop experiencing.

 

Before meeting her, my world was dull, pretty "gray", to be honest. She brought a lot of "color" into my world, and I absolutely loved that. And now that she's leaving, the "color" is starting to drain, and I'm back to a boring old "gray" world filled with people I don't connect as well with.

[penelope13]

Honestly, I still disagree with this very much. I mean, sure, you can say that she wasn't personally attracted to me, and I get that, but it wasn't some fantasy or idea I was chasing after.

 

Nobody disputes that you really liked the aspects of her that you were able to experience and you are attracted to her because of that.

 

HOWEVER (huge gigantic HOWEVER!!!): a dating opportunity ONLY exists if the OTHER person is equally interested in getting to know you in a romantic way. That is the BASIS and primary PREREQUISIT. Thus the thought that this had true potential for a romantic relationship IS a fantasy.

 

There was on opportunity with this girl to develop and maintain a friendly work friendship, however there was NO opportunity for it to ever become more [because she simply didn't see you in that light, that's quite clear from everything she said in this context]. When you put the emphasis on trying to force an opportunity that wasn't there, you jeopardized the opportunity of the friendship.

 

So don't allow yourself to overdramatize this situation as if fate was conspiring against what was 'meant to be'.

 

I understand you are hurt and upset, but it will benefit you to keep things in the right perspective.

[MattW]

I wasn't necessarily trying to focus on the "romantic" side of it when I said this is an opportunity lost. I just wish I could have had SOMETHING with her, even a friendship. At this point, I'd take anything other than not having her around at all.

 

Even though all we really ever had was a work relationship, I just can't even really imagine what my life is going to be like without her being in there somewhere. Like I said before, it's like all the "color" is being drained out of my life again, and it's back to the boring old "gray" world I spent so many years in. The thought of never seeing her again makes me want to pretty much stop caring about anything and just do nothing at all with myself.

[penelope13]

I wasn't necessarily trying to focus on the "romantic" side of it when I said this is an opportunity lost. I just wish I could have had SOMETHING with her, even a friendship. At this point, I'd take anything other than not having her around at all.

 

(This is NOT meant to put you down) You are aware that YOU had an active part in how the friendship (potential friendship) developed? It wasn't some 'mysterious outside force' that did that to you.

 

The good news: if you choose to do so is that you can learn and adjust your contributing behavior to the outcome of this situation and try not to repeat it with the next potential friendship.

 

One of my suggestions would be indeed to increase your social activities, even with/through the help of the guy you don't like too much, so that when you meet someone who you are more in sync with, you are not coming on too strong at some point because you have no alternative social outlet.

[MattW]

I never said it was some "outside force". I know I made mistakes, and I regret them, and I directly apologized to her for them a long time ago. It just bothers me a lot that we still couldn't really get past it even after that. I mean, she dated this other guy, he CHEATED on her, they had an awkward time for a while, and now they're pretty much flirty best buds at work. Me, I just had feelings for her, felt bummed out by the rejection, and put myself in a position for people to gossip about me and her, and I felt bad that that happened, and I apologized to her for it, and yet, our work relationship never really got back to where it was before, and there's almost no chance she'll want to be friends with me outside of work, especially beyond her leaving in another week or so.

 

It just kinda hurts to think that what he did to her was "okay" in the long run, but what I did was pretty much unforgivable, in her eyes. That's just... sad, to me. It's like, some people can do these big horrible things, and after a while, that's okay, but I make a few little mistakes here and there, and I'm blacklisted from someone's pool of friends.

 

Like I said, I'll see things through with this guy as best I can, and I don't know where, exactly, that'll take me, but I just really can't see myself meeting someone any time soon, if ever, that I really enjoy spending my time with. Me hanging out with this guy is just going to become a routine that I'll pretty much be indifferent to. We'll go places, maybe be work out buddies, but he's not someone I really expect to be one of my best friends in the world, at all. I anticipate that I'll probably do a lot of sitting back and seeing all the women fawn over him, probably a girl I'll like if I happen to meet one, while I keep to myself.

 

Personally, I still feel a little turned off by the idea of dating, because I can't get the date I went on with that woman from online out of my head. It was so... blah, and I just wanted it to end, and yet, she seemed to have a good enough time to text me afterwards trying to set up a second date. I really hated that date, and I felt bad for blowing her off when she seemingly wanted to keep seeing me, and I just feel like that's how a lot of dates are going to end up being. In which case, I can't really feel excited about that.

 

With this girl at work, I didn't actually become consciously aware of it until a little later, but early on, it gave me so much joy to be able to make her smile. Ever since I've fallen for her, I've always loved being around her simply because it gives me another chance to put a smile on her face. Even when I'm not around her, I try to think of things to tell her about or talk to about that will make her smile. THAT'S the kind of person I want to date. That's kinda also why I'm so bummed about her leaving, because now I don't get this "pleasure" anymore. I don't get to try to make her smile anymore. I've gotten so much personal joy out of that for a long time, now, and now that's just all over with. That's kinda what I mean when I keep saying the "color" is being drained from my world.

[penelope13]

Me hanging out with this guy is just going to become a routine that I'll pretty much be indifferent to. We'll go places, maybe be work out buddies, but he's not someone I really expect to be one of my best friends in the world, at all. I anticipate that I'll probably do a lot of sitting back

 

Why look at this opportunity with a doomsday perspective?

 

Not too long ago you lamented the fact that you don't have anyone to hang out with, that you don't know any places to go to because you don't want to go anywhere by yourself. Now you have a new opportunity and you are already psyching yourself up to not enjoying it.

 

Why not look at it this way: "wow, I have someone who wants to spend some time with me, I will get to know a few new places, I will do different things, I may meet new people"?

 

Please try your hardest to show some enthusiasm when you are spending time with this guy and appreciate his efforts

[MattW]

Why look at this opportunity with a doomsday perspective?

 

Not too long ago you lamented the fact that you don't have anyone to hang out with, that you don't know any places to go to because you don't want to go anywhere by yourself. Now you have a new opportunity and you are already psyching yourself up to not enjoying it.

 

Why not look at it this way: "wow, I have someone who wants to spend some time with me, I will get to know a few new places, I will do different things, I may meet new people"?

 

It's just hard for me to feel "excited" anymore, to be honest, because my life is returning to being a life that's filled with nothing but question marks and desires that lack a specific "target". Like I said before, getting to know this girl helped me feel "excited" again, over the last year-and-a-half. Maybe things were never going to happen between us, but it gave me something specific to set my sights on, and I felt like I was working towards something (even if I wasn't, in the end). Just getting to talk to her and spend time with her brought me a lot of joy and excitement, and I was able to spread that joy and excitement around to other areas of my life better.

 

And now this thing that helped me feel joy and excitement is about to be gone, and I just don't really feel particularly excited or happy about much of anything, again (which is the way I felt for years before I developed feelings for her). I know you guys will tell me about how you shouldn't base your happiness on people or external forces, and all that, and I understand that, but I just don't really feel like I have any reasons to feel "excited" or "optimistic" at this point. Yeah, this guy will help me get out to more places and do things, but "meeting people" is one big gray area, and I just can't feel excited about it when it's like that. I've met plenty of people over the last eight or nine years, and I still haven't made friends, and I've only found a total of two girls to be attractive to me to want to date them. It just irks me to think that it's probably going to be several more years before I even have another chance to meet someone I genuinely like a lot. I'm sick of "waiting", at this point. The thought of "Well, it's going to be at least x amount of years before another awesome girl comes along" doesn't inspire me to follow that with "guess I'll enjoy life until then!". It just makes me feel like I don't really care about the next however-many-years, and I'm going to have to suffer through a long amount of time just to *maybe* have another chance with a girl who's *maybe* someone I like a lot.

[Angler]

I'm sick of "waiting", at this point. The thought of "Well, it's going to be at least x amount of years before another awesome girl comes along" doesn't inspire me to follow that with "guess I'll enjoy life until then!". It just makes me feel like I don't really care about the next however-many-years, and I'm going to have to suffer through a long amount of time just to *maybe* have another chance with a girl who's *maybe* someone I like a lot.

 

The solution is to do nothing.

 

Don't get therapy for your issues.

Don't move out and fend on your own

Don't eat better.

Don't exercise.

Don't accept offers of socializing.

Don't accept your role in the happenings of your life.

 

Just keep doing what you're doing so that in 2-3 years when the next girl of interest comes along, you won't be ready for her either.

 

OR

 

Remove the word "don't" from everything on that list, and give yourself a chance...that's all you ever wanted with this girl, right?

 

Just start. Something. Do it. Today.

 

You have said multiple times that you're a logical analytical person. I don't see it. I constantly read the opposite of logic. Prove me wrong.

[MattW]

The solution is to do nothing.

 

Don't get therapy for your issues.

Don't move out and fend on your own

Don't eat better.

Don't exercise.

Don't accept offers of socializing.

Don't accept your role in the happenings of your life.

 

Just keep doing what you're doing so that in 2-3 years when the next girl of interest comes along, you won't be ready for her either.

 

OR

 

Remove the word "don't" from everything on that list, and give yourself a chance...that's all you ever wanted with this girl, right?

 

Just start. Something. Do it. Today.

 

You have said multiple times that you're a logical analytical person. I don't see it. I constantly read the opposite of logic. Prove me wrong.

 

All I'm really saying is that I have a difficult time motivating myself to do things that I'm not attached to the benefit of. When there's a specific girl I like, the feelings I develop go a long way in helping me to motivate myself. That's because it provides me with a clear, specific goal to work towards and to keep in mind.

 

When it's like this, where there's no sign of anyone I want to pursue, I just feel like... who cares? I have nothing to "look forward to". There's no guarantee of anything. "Maybe" I'll meet another girl I like, but "maybe" that won't be for decades. "Maybe" even if I'm at my best, that woman still wouldn't be attracted to me anyway. I don't like hanging on the hopes of "Maybe"s. I don't like putting faith into things that I see no proof or evidence of. I only see the facts. The fact is that out of all the girls I've known over the last several years, I've only been personally attracted to two. The fact is that neither of those girls wanted to date me. The fact is that this last girl is about to be gone and that all the joy, happiness, and excitement I felt because of her will be gone along with her. The fact is that there's no sign of me meeting another girl I like as much any time in the near future.

 

Knowing those facts, I simply question why I should care about anything, why I should feel motivated to do anything. Why should I care enough to do anything, when the only "motivation" that exists is that I'll "maybe" meet another girl some day?

[penelope13]

The fact is that with both women you were interested in you ran into trouble because of your lack of social awareness and being able to read properly the boundaries they wanted.

 

You are not going to eliminate those issues by hiding in your room the next few years.

[MattW]

The fact is that with both women you were interested in you ran into trouble because of your lack of social awareness and being able to read properly the boundaries they wanted.

 

You are not going to eliminate those issues by hiding in your room the next few years.

 

In other words, you're basically just saying they weren't attracted to me. But therein lies the problem, even if I fix the problem that caused THEM to not be attracted to me, that doesn't mean a different factor won't cause me to be "unattractive" to a new girl. In essence, there can ALWAYS be a reason that I'm not attractive to someone. That's the part that makes me wonder "Why bother?". It might as well be a no-win situation. I can fix one thing that someone doesn't find attractive, but that doesn't mean someone else won't find a different reason to not be attracted to me later on. And I'm never going to be "perfect"; so from my perspective, I really don't see what difference it makes if I eliminate any issues.

 

Look, it's not that I'm trying to make excuses to do nothing, I just feel no sense of motivation anymore. When I had something that was bringing me good feelings, I could motivate myself to do plenty of things. I mean, god, I never even considered attempting to conquer my fear of driving, yet when I was motivated by my feelings for this girl, I conquered it in two weeks, last year. That's some pretty powerful motivation right there. I just... I don't feel that level of motivation very often. Again, I know you "shouldn't" base motivation off of external factors like that, but it just really did wonders for me.

 

And now I'm not going to have that anymore. I'm going back to having a dull, colorless life. Maybe spending time with this guy will get me out doing things, and maybe I'll have some semblance of a friend, but I just really don't feel like I'm ever going to "meet" anyone, and even if I do, I think there's always going to be a reason I'm not "attractive" to them, regardless of what issues I work out.

[penelope13]

In other words, you're basically just saying they weren't attracted to me.

 

Actually NOT what I was trying to say:

 

in relationships as well as in friendships, there is usually not a lot you can do to 'make people like you', but there is an awful lot of things that you can do/ fail to do in order to destroy potential interests.

 

Girl #2 definitely had some affinity for you and I think she actually cared for you in a friendship way. Unlike many other people in similar situations she didn't cut you off after you asked her out on a date and from what you told us here, she seemed to have a pretty good reading on some of your challenges. She only started to distance herself from you after the whole FB-related incidence and when your work management was made aware of the situation.

 

You didn't recognize the value and sincerity in her continuing to interact with you after you asked her out, but you became so afraid that she may pull back entirely that you kept pushing her (all paraphrased from what you have written on your threads). It's a common pattern with insecure behavior that the more someone is trying to get reassurance the more likely it is to have the opposite effect (there are hundreds of threads on ENA demonstrating this).

 

Thus I think it could have been avoidable to lose your friendly interaction with her if you had not pushed her to a boundary where she started to feel uncomfortable. In order to have avoided that outcome you would have had to been able to recognize how great it was that she continued the friendship initially instead of focusing on the fear that you may lose her. That would require a shift in your mentality from seeing only the negative when there is actually positive as well.

 

Nobody can say which opportunities may arise, nor when (regardless for friends or partners) - but I would want to do everything in my power to be prepared to recognize these opportunities and then to avoid as many personal behavioral mistakes as possible. Especially if I would believe that due to my specific set of preferences I won't have the opportunity to meet too many like-minded individuals, I would like to be 'equipped' to take advantage of these rare opportunities as much as possible.

[MattW]

I suppose I see what you're trying to say, I guess it's just a difference in the way we think. To me, I see it more as a futility. To me, I feel like it's never going to matter how I "fix" my issues, because there's always going to be a reason that I'm still not good enough.

 

Maybe you'd see it as "If I get so few opportunities, I should be at my best to pursue them", whereas, I see it as "My best will never actually be good enough, so what difference does it make?". In my eyes, I see it as a losing battle no matter what. And when that's the way I see things, is it really any wonder that I have trouble finding motivation?

 

The sad thing is, I don't think I'll ever feel differently about that outlook until I'm actually proven wrong, but at the same time, my outlook dictates that it will come true. It's a very bad circle that I just can't break out of.

[penelope13]

That's why therapy has been suggested to you so many times ....

[MattW]

I guess, but I can't motivate myself for that, either, because I don't see the value in it for myself and I don't believe it'll really do anything for me. Am I wrong about that? I don't know. I could be. Probably am. But I'm so set in the way I see things, that I don't even know what it would take to get me to see things differently, even about going to therapy.

 

Anyway, I've been unable to stop thinking about this girl leaving since I found out. I've been to school, I've been interning, I even got a new "toy" today that I was previously excited about but just couldn't enjoy today... It's just really bumming me out. Sunday is almost here, and after Sunday that's just about it. I just can't stop wishing something could happen where we stay in contact, can't stop thinking about what things are going to be like when she's gone. *sigh*

[MattW]

Going to work in a few hours... She'll be there for a couple of hours, and the guy will be working with me the rest of the shift. I guess at the very least, I can relax a little today in the sense that I know for sure nothing is going on between them, but that still doesn't mean I'm not feeling kinda mopey knowing that these are some of the last hours I'll get to see her.

 

Then, of course, there's tomorrow, where it's just me and her without this guy, and the three or so hours I get to see her on black Friday. *sigh* Man, this is really depressing, knowing how little time I have left to see her. v_v