Journaling my "personal growth"

[MattW]

Sort of a "journal entry" today of something I've been thinking about...

 

It kind of amazes me what kind of effects a piece of fictitious media (especially some kinda silly ones) can have on a person. There's a particular TV show I'm a big fan of, a sitcom, called How I Met Your Mother. I was a fan of it when it started about nine years ago, and now as it moves through its final season to the finale, it's resonating with me quite a lot. I've always felt like I'm a lot like the main character, Ted. Granted, Ted has friends, Ted dates, Ted has been in at least a few serious relationships. But in terms of outlooks and the whole "hopeless romantic" thing, I've always felt a strong connection to the character.

 

Every time I watch a new episode (like I just did, a little while ago), it makes me feel a bit sad and reflective of my own life. This final season keeps hitting close to home with me, because Ted's story is coming closer and closer to the finish. Ted has spent several years holding a flame for a girl he was madly in love with, while having a number of failed relationships since then (I've spent over a year holding a flame for a girl I work with). Ted is now watching this girl marry one of his best friends (I'm watching this girl flirt with and date other guys). Ted keeps holding out hope for this girl, contemplates ways he might win her over yet, but also understands that it's never going to happen (I keep holding out hope for this girl, contemplating ways I can win her over yet, but also understand that it's never going to happen).

 

At least for the sake of the show, we know Ted will have his happy ending. Either he falls madly in love with the new woman they're introducing into the show and lives happily ever after, or "TV magic" happens and Ted ends up with the girl he's been in love with since the show started. Either way, Ted's story ends happy.

 

It's unfortunate that my "story" has no such guarantee. In a way, that's what makes it hard to watch for me. It's like, on one hand, I identify with this character so much, that I'm so happy to see him power through his struggles and end up happy. But then, I have to remind myself that that's not actually me. With this current season, every single episode has left me feeling a bit "weepy" at the end, either because something incredibly sweet happens, or because something happens that makes me think "I know how that feels...

 

Makes me feel kinda dumb that something like a silly little sitcom like this can resonate so much with me on an emotional level. Ah well.

[Deciduous]

....I see...And how did that make you feel? Nah. Just kidding. Shrink hat off.

 

Well that's the magic of television. We connect to the inner life of the character, start identifying all over the place and hope for the best for them. We hope that Ross will get Rachael and Jim will get Pam.

 

We want things to work out for them - these fictional characters who connect us to our biggest aspirations. Most of the time we can almost scrunch those feelings down. But for a minute, we truly believe it can happen.

 

Then we switch the television and find it impossible to transfer all that good-will, faith and hope into our own lives.

 

 

 

Maybe things won't turn out as rosy as they do on TV in that effortless, seredipidous, and fantastically unbelievable way.

 

But rosy enough for your needs.

 

Besides, you haven't got to the end of your own sitcom yet. All of this? Mid second season stuff!

 

Deci

[journeynow]

 

Quote Originally Posted by penelope13 View Post

2. Are you willing to give 'increase in physical activity' another shot (provided someone could explain why physical activity at work is NOT the same as 'physical activity by itself')?

 

Honestly? Not really.

Ryan, you might consider some exercise to boost happiness. Here is an article explaining why it helps: link removed

 

Also consider your diet. Make sure you are eating well, maybe take vitamins.

[MattW]

Who's Ryan? lol

 

Anyway, if I can be perfectly honest, I just don't really want to do exercise beyond the physical activity I do at work. I'm not saying it couldn't have positive effects on my body and/ or mind, I just really don't want to, right now. I don't have much motivation for it. Maybe some day, I'll have the realization of "I'd like to work out and get in better shape", and I'll do it then, but right now, just not interested.

 

I don't deny my diet is pretty junky. I tend to just eat what I want, rather than considering what's good for me, and whatnot. Similar to working out, I just don't quite have that motivation.

 

I think when I can afford to move out into my own place, that's when I'm going to try to start eating better, maybe work out, etc. I'm going to consider that a bit of a "fresh start" on how I live. It's too hard to make changes right now, because I'm not in an environment conducive to doing that kind of thing, and I'm more likely to "fall off the wagon" and slip into old habits. When I can afford my own place, that's when I can have full control over how I live, and I'll be more motivated to take that control.

 

On another note, I've never been much of a drinker, and I've never been drunk, but lately, I'm starting to have a strong craving for alcohol. I kinda want to drink, I want to feel that "buzz"... I dunno, maybe I'm looking for something to make me feel good.

[penelope13]

what do you HAVE motivation for right now?

[Deciduous]

Who's Ryan? lol

 

(LOL! To be fair to journeynow - you write like a Ryan, you project a Ryan - so you've only yourself to blame on that score )

 

Anyway can we get back on topic, with How I met Your Mother

 

The whole series will probably end when he gets his long-term crush, when he gets what he has always longed for. Ahhh-sweet! Actually it ain't. In real life, this is precisely when he'd enter pychosis and then long-term therapy. Why? He has focused his efforts on attaining this one goal. What happens when he achieves it? Imagine trying to live with a fantasy.

 

He has not planned for this, he has not prepared for a commited relationship and living with his fantasy. He has done of none of the mental groundwork - (and neither has CBS writers) - so the story must naturally stop there.

 

But in real life it doesn't.

 

We know for a fact that attaining one's dreams can sends major pop superstars and actors hurtling towards the crap-pipe. In many ways it's actually more problematic and devastating than major failure.

 

And there are reasons for this.

 

At moment, Matt you (and Ted) have mentally rehersed for catastrophic failure. You, Mattw, have rehersed and meditated upon the fact that you may die an unloved virgin at the age of 76 (Average age of male death in the US) This is some 52 years away.

 

You have got that mental routine down cold. You know backwards. You rehersed it, you've meditated on it, you have endlessly thought about it. Every permetation of that scenario has been examined. We can say you are a champion at it. If it becomes an Olympic sport, your country of orgin could push you forward and be confident of winning Gold.

 

What remains unexamined, is, if it doesn't work out that way. That is where the problem is. In the next ten years you, are likely to have an opportunity thrown at you. That is just statistics. I'm not trying to cheer you up. I'm just saying that in all good conscience - I could not confidently bet my pension on you dying a virgin at 76 years old. I'm forced go with statistical probabilities.

 

But because you have mentally rehersed it, meditated on it and endlessly thought about failure - I wonder how earth you will be able to form a healthy relationship when that opportunity inevitably comes up.

 

My concern here is that you have not spent more than two minutes examining the reality of that possibility. So it is difficult to prepare you for a healthy relationship if we don't discuss what a healthy relationship is - and how your current paradigms and experiences (through your parents) may impact on that future relationship. This does need to be explored.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the start of the relationship isn't the end of all your problems.

 

In many ways it is the beginning, because you are mentally prepared failure. Ironically I have zero worries about you dealing with failure. I have major reservations how you might deal with success.

 

I think we now need to look at your paradigms and fears about relationships. You brought up some things in post #70

 

I can think of several reasons why I may have some unhealthy perspectives and thoughts about relationships. For one, my family history is awful. My family is filled with divorce, unhappy marriages, and bad relationships. My family is filled with cheaters, liars, manipulators, and people who just make each other miserable. Hell, I discovered a few years ago that my own mother (who I was always very close with as a child) is a selfish, greedy, two-faced liar, she emotionally abuses my father, and she's obsessed with sex, and sleeping with as many guys as she can before she dies. I don't even really know what a happy healthy relationship looks like, to be honest. All I've seen is the bad. And as much as I want someone in my life, I'm mortified at the thought of ending up like everyone else in my family.

 

I also have, I guess, unhealthy (or at least, odd) perspectives on sex. It's funny, because I was never raised in an environment where sex was discouraged, or anything like that (if anything, it was a fairly open topic), so I don't know where it comes from. On one level, I have what I consider to be a healthy interest in and desire for sex as anyone else in my demographic. But at the same time, I feel extremely bad and guilty for it. I never "check out" girls, because that just feels wrong to me, and to be honest, my basis for attraction is more about personality than looks, and always has been. I never talk about sex at all with people, and when it comes up, I often get very flustered and embarrassed. I never purposely "touch" girls, even though people generally say you should find little ways to do that in order to build up sexual interest; that's just not something that feels natural, to me. In a way, I think I've been conditioned by certain factors over the years to believe that I'm so unattractive and unappealing that expressing sexual interest in women in even the littlest ways would be "offensive" to any and all women. Not to mention, the actual activity, itself, kind of scares me; perhaps I'm just overly paranoid, but I do not trust protection, birth control, etc., at all, and honestly, I don't know how so many people get away with having sex and not getting pregnant, STDs, etc.

 

That's really the best way I can easily summarize the way I see things

 

I brought up some things in post #76

 

This is why you don't form real relationships. There's a lot of subconscious information which has been filed away - and remains unchallenged. You have had your trust in women utterly destroyed at a subconscious level. It's completely gone. Your subconscious isn't going to allow you to have a relationship.

 

I think it is time we move onto that area.

 

What are your thoughts? I don't want to chivvy you along to fast.

 

Deci

[blueidealist24]

I honestly don't think you NEED to do physical activity outside of work. When I worked a physical job (on my feet 5-8 hrs a day, in a fast food place, we didn't always get breaks when it was busy.. which was almost all the time, since it was understaffed, too), if I tried to work out in addition to all the sprinting up and down behind the counter I did at work, I would be so tired that I could barely get through my shift the next day without feeling like I was going to keel over or fall asleep. Eventually I stopped since I got so tired I started making mistakes on the cash, which made me feel like an idiot.

 

You could start taking more B-vitamins. I started taking these vitamins called Stress Plex and they've helped a bit with my anxiety. I think they're Jamieson brand, IIRC. I'm not sure if those are sold in the States but I'm thinking maybe that's an American company to begin with (I'm in Canada).

[MattW]

what do you HAVE motivation for right now?

 

Honestly, I... really don't know. I think my home is sort of a "toxic" environment, due to the issues I have with my mother and family, and whatnot, and I think as long as I'm here, I'm always going to keep myself stuck in the same position. But, I can't move out until I can properly afford it, and I can't afford it until I can get a better job, and who knows when that will happen? For me, moving out on my own is going to be my "fresh start" in a lot of ways, but until that happens, I'm going to be right where I am now.

 

At moment, Matt you (and Ted) have mentally rehersed for catastrophic failure. You, Mattw, have rehersed and meditated upon the fact that you may die an unloved virgin at the age of 76 (Average age of male death in the US) This is some 52 years away.

 

You have got that mental routine down cold. You know backwards. You rehersed it, you've meditated on it, you have endlessly thought about it. Every permetation of that scenario has been examined. We can say you are a champion at it. If it becomes an Olympic sport, your country of orgin could push you forward and be confident of winning Gold.

 

What remains unexamined, is, if it doesn't work out that way. That is where the problem is. In the next ten years you, are likely to have an opportunity thrown at you. That is just statistics. I'm not trying to cheer you up. I'm just saying that in all good conscience - I could not confidently bet my pension on you dying a virgin at 76 years old. I'm forced go with statistical probabilities.

 

I think statistics are only really applicable when the subject in question is relatively normal by comparison. I'm 24, almost 25, and there's never been a girl that's attracted to me. Or, if there has, I obviously wasn't attracted to her to notice and reciprocate. That right there kind of defies statistics. Most people by now have been on several dates, and have had at least one "relationship". So, I don't anticipate statistics working any differently for me in the next ten years.

 

As far as "dying a virgin" goes, well... One day, I'd really like to go on a vacation to Las Vegas, and from what I hear, they have legal "establishments" there where you can get some time with a woman. Paying for it obviously isn't the most attractive choice to me, but I gotta do what I gotta do. Some day, I'll get to Vegas, and make that a reality. Some day. Hopefully, anyway.

 

But because you have mentally rehersed it, meditated on it and endlessly thought about failure - I wonder how earth you will be able to form a healthy relationship when that opportunity inevitably comes up.

 

My concern here is that you have not spent more than two minutes examining the reality of that possibility. So it is difficult to prepare you for a healthy relationship if we don't discuss what a healthy relationship is - and how your current paradigms and experiences (through your parents) may impact on that future relationship. This does need to be explored.

 

Contrary to popular belief, the start of the relationship isn't the end of all your problems.

 

In many ways it is the beginning, because you are mentally prepared failure. Ironically I have zero worries about you dealing with failure. I have major reservations how you might deal with success.

 

I've said this before (though not explicitly in this topic, from what I remember), but the idea of actually being in a relationship does kind of scare me, because of the fact that I have no clue what a happy healthy relationship actually looks like. I've never seen one. How can I expect myself to have one when I don't know what it looks like, when every one I've ever seen has been bad and/ or unhappy?

 

I mean, my basic idea of a good relationship is one where we're the best of friends, and also share physical affection and intimacy. But I still don't know what that actually "looks" like. Honestly, I don't know anything about dating, or making a girl happy. The only "date" I can even think of is some combination of dinner, a movie, and/ or drinks, and you kind of blow through all of those combinations pretty quickly. Not to mention, I don't even know any restaurants or bars, or anything like that. I'm totally clueless. I'd want to be a romantic person, but I'd have no sense of how to actually do that. A girl would probably be bored with me after a couple of dates.

 

I think we now need to look at your paradigms and fears about relationships. You brought up some things in post #70

 

I brought up some things in post #76

 

I think it is time we move onto that area.

 

What are your thoughts? I don't want to chivvy you along to fast.

 

I think you're right, in what you said. "Trust" is a... difficult topic, for me. Honestly, I don't know if I can do it. I mean, I'm paranoid about the girl I like that I'm not even dating, and I'm constantly jealous over her and her ex. Granted, I try to be as respectful as I can of certain boundaries to not cross, but the fact that I even feel the way I do inside is pretty telling. Ironically, this same girl is the person that made me want to trust again. When I fell for her last year, I felt like I could absolutely trust her with anything. Now, I'm not so sure, and I feel foolish for opening that part of myself up again.

 

Again, I think you're right. Deep down, I don't feel I can properly trust anyone. I don't know that I can ever get that back. And I think you're right, that subconsciously, I'll never allow myself to actually have a relationship.

 

Anyway, another random thought for the day... I interned today, and three other interns (one female, two male) were there today, too. A funny occurrence prompted a lot of talking and joking around between us about sex and dating, for the day. What sort of... bothered me, I guess, is that the nature of the talks were mostly the girl directing things at the other two guy interns. In a way, it made me feel a bit "excluded". Granted, I don't have anything to share (and I don't think I'd ever tell anybody that), but I find myself in situations like this quite often, actually. I find that a lot of women are more open and "playful" with the topics of sex and whatnot, but I'm always "excluded" in a strange sort of way. This happens at work, too (even with the girl I like). In a way, it's like people just don't see me in that way, and just completely gloss over me. That kind of makes me feel bad, and in a weird sort of way, it kind of bummed me out and made me think about my issues all over again.

[Deciduous]

Do you think it might be because you are uneasy about that particular topic? I know you feel it's because women see you as sexless. But what about the theory that you project a sexless image (there are unresolved issues there) and women tap into that image of yourself.

 

I think that Angler touched upon this subject in his post #136

 

 

 

I also commented on post #146

 

 

 

In some sense, you've trained yourself not be seen as a sexual being in public, to a certain degree. Would it be fair to say that? Sexual desire or interest is seen as creepy if it comes from you. And this is how you view yourself. So that part of you has been stifled. You would prefer being seen as a sex-less being rather than face sexual rejection. So naturally, you would not be included in sex talk.

 

Deci

[MattW]

Do you think it might be because you are uneasy about that particular topic? I know you feel it's because women see you as sexless. But what about the theory that you project a sexless image (there are unresolved issues there) and women tap into that image of yourself.

 

In some sense, you've trained yourself not be seen as a sexual being in public, to a certain degree. Would it be fair to say that? Sexual desire or interest is seen as creepy if it comes from you. And this is how you view yourself. So that part of you has been stifled. You would prefer being seen as a sex-less being rather than face sexual rejection. So naturally, you would not be included in sex talk.

 

I suppose that has a bit of merit. So... what am I supposed to do about that?

[penelope13]

Honestly, I... really don't know. I think my home is sort of a "toxic" environment, due to the issues I have with my mother and family, and whatnot, and I think as long as I'm here, I'm always going to keep myself stuck in the same position. But, I can't move out until I can properly afford it, and I can't afford it until I can get a better job, and who knows when that will happen? For me, moving out on my own is going to be my "fresh start" in a lot of ways, but until that happens, I'm going to be right where I am now.

 

I understand that the circumstances may not be ideal. However, in every situation there are options to start making changes. It's mainly a question of willpower. But you are not alone (actually it's a very common trait) in waiting for a 'significant' date or event before wanting to implement changes (such as New Year's Resolutions etc).

 

The only "date" I can even think of is some combination of dinner, a movie, and/ or drinks, and you kind of blow through all of those combinations pretty quickly. Not to mention, I don't even know any restaurants or bars, or anything like that. I'm totally clueless. I'd want to be a romantic person, but I'd have no sense of how to actually do that. A girl would probably be bored with me after a couple of dates.

 

Why not start exploring your city and other things so that in case a new friend or potential date (or some casual date) is interested in hanging out with you, you have some ideas what to do and don't have to panic because you don't know where to go? That is part of preparing yourself to be a more attractive person in general.

 

The point of exploring your city would not be to discover a new place (I know that has supposedly never motivated you), but to prepare for increasing your social activities and friends.

 

I think (based on some of the things you said on multiple threads) you are scared of feeling out of place or people being able to figure out that something is a new experience for you and thus you try to be 'prepared' before exposing yourself to a new experience. While this works with theoretical things, when it's about practical things you need to actually DO something in order to start learning that particular skill.

 

Most people are way too busy with themselves to be taking note of someone in a city (or where ever) who might look a bit lost. - You can always pretend to be a tourist ;-).

 

 

 

The only "date" I can even think of is some combination of dinner, a movie, and/ or drinks, and you kind of blow through all of those combinations pretty quickly. Not to mention, I don't even know any restaurants or bars, or anything like that. I'm totally clueless. I'd want to be a romantic person, but I'd have no sense of how to actually do that. A girl would probably be bored with me after a couple of dates.

 

You have stated multiple times that you are extremely scared of being considered 'creepy' when it comes to the thought of expressing any kind of sexual interest in a woman to the point that you are very afraid of even the most innocuous kind of touch. Expressing physical attraction (in a tasteful, respectful manner) is an essential part of socializing, flirting, dating.

 

If you don't show or express this, then anyone around you will assume that you are NOT interested in this type of interaction and thus will NOT engage in it with you ... because it is the RESPECTFUL thing to do. You really can't expect people to be mind readers and magically know that you would like to be included in this type of playful interaction, if your entire body language says "I'm scared of this".

 

I used to have a colleague who also had a lot of social anxiety. Whenever someone would approach her, her body was starting to ever so slightly back away. If someone accidentally brushed against her, she would noticeably flinch, however she was quite unaware of doing so. Of course as soon as we noticed, we all made sure that we would keep further distance than we would normally do and we don't talk about certain subjects out of respect for her, not because we supposedly 'don't like her'.

 

 

I have noticed something else about you (stop me, if I'm wrong): you are trying very hard to control what kind of picture you want to portray in any given situation (thus why you want to know what to expect before exposing yourself to any kind of situation). In order to 'minimize' what you need to handle and strategize about in advance, you separate certain aspects of your personality and interests when you interact with others: for example when it comes to dating, you try to limit it entirely to the intellectual and emotional aspects, whereas the physical and sexual side you explore on different websites with woman who you consider 'undateable'.

 

Hardly anyone is so extremely compartmentalized (most people are to a certain degree, but not to those extremes). It's alright to be your 'whole self' at any given moment. It's alright to show a woman that you are attracted to her, while it's also ok to have an intellectual or emotional interaction with women you may want to explore your physical side.

[journeynow]

Who's Ryan? lol.

 

Oops. I meant MattW. Sorry about that! Ryan was someone else I'd been talking to totally unrelated to eNA.

[Deciduous]

I think statistics are only really applicable when the subject in question is relatively normal by comparison. I'm 24, almost 25, and there's never been a girl that's attracted to me.

 

Fair enough. But what if this is also about self-"un"acceptance. You feel unesasy about yourself and also project this. There-fore it becomes difficult for females to experience attraction to a person who is not at peace with themselves.

 

I'm not saying it isn't very difficult to be a 5.2ft, male. Of course you will have to work harder. In the same way people with strikingly uneven features have to work hard. And that is an undeniable fact. I'm not here to deny the real world.

 

And yet there is more to Matt than he chooses to share with the outside world. If there wasn't, then you would've hardly have maintained a #235 post thread. Some threads have no replies.

 

I think in public, you've actually locked down an awful lot of yourself. You censure a major chunk of yourself. And if you aren't sporting Channing Tatum good looks, then one is forced to work on one's personality image.

 

I understand that some of beliefs come from your family's paradigm, which you have adopted. Pessimism above all else. Yet do you feel that this might distance people from you, because they never get any where near the real Matt. The real Matt is heavily censored because you deem him as unacceptable.

 

You've never been given the message that you can be yourself and be loved and accepted. You didn't get it at home. You didn't get it at school, so where might you get it from Matt? You may hope that romance brings it, but we have the whole eNotalone to prove this theory doesn't always work when dealing with a rocky self-image.

 

Again, I think you're right. Deep down, I don't feel I can properly trust anyone. I don't know that I can ever get that back. And I think you're right, that subconsciously, I'll never allow myself to actually have a relationship.

 

I can see how difficult it might be. But building up a trustworthy relationship with any female might have a profound effect on you. Because it will shake old beliefs to their core. You can't help but question old patterns. And so we are back to professional therapy - however I understand if you are not ready to go there again.

 

As far as "dying a virgin" goes, well... One day, I'd really like to go on a vacation to Las Vegas, and from what I hear, they have legal "establishments" there where you can get some time with a woman. Paying for it obviously isn't the most attractive choice to me, but I gotta do what I gotta do. Some day, I'll get to Vegas, and make that a reality. Some day. Hopefully, anyway.

 

Ah, excellent. I see my pension plan bet is still safe.

 

Honestly, I... really don't know. I think my home is sort of a "toxic" environment, due to the issues I have with my mother and family, and whatnot, and I think as long as I'm here, I'm always going to keep myself stuck in the same position. But, I can't move out until I can properly afford it, and I can't afford it until I can get a better job, and who knows when that will happen? For me, moving out on my own is going to be my "fresh start" in a lot of ways, but until that happens, I'm going to be right where I am now.

 

In terms of personal privacy, whilst letting our parents be themselves, how might you cope with effecting healthy boundaries , to protect your own thought process and decisions. I mean while you are still in the house?

 

Deci

[Deciduous]

I suppose that has a bit of merit. So... what am I supposed to do about that?

 

Matt, I think the answer lies in the "there are unresolved issues there" bit.

 

Deci

[MattW]

I understand that the circumstances may not be ideal. However, in every situation there are options to start making changes. It's mainly a question of willpower. But you are not alone (actually it's a very common trait) in waiting for a 'significant' date or event before wanting to implement changes (such as New Year's Resolutions etc).

 

Yeah, I mean, I know if I "work hard", I could try to make changes. I just feel like the issues I have at home, and at work, and everything, they're going to cause me to relapse. I feel like I need a new environment altogether. New job, new place to live (where it's just me), etc. Dealing with my mom is just too stressful. Being around the girl I have feelings for is just too stressful. Being at the same crummy job that I hate is just too stressful. I feel like I need to be away from all of that in order to really start making certain changes to my life.

 

Why not start exploring your city and other things so that in case a new friend or potential date (or some casual date) is interested in hanging out with you, you have some ideas what to do and don't have to panic because you don't know where to go? That is part of preparing yourself to be a more attractive person in general.

 

The point of exploring your city would not be to discover a new place (I know that has supposedly never motivated you), but to prepare for increasing your social activities and friends.

 

I think (based on some of the things you said on multiple threads) you are scared of feeling out of place or people being able to figure out that something is a new experience for you and thus you try to be 'prepared' before exposing yourself to a new experience. While this works with theoretical things, when it's about practical things you need to actually DO something in order to start learning that particular skill.

 

Most people are way too busy with themselves to be taking note of someone in a city (or where ever) who might look a bit lost. - You can always pretend to be a tourist ;-).

 

I don't really know "how" to explore. I don't know where to go or what to do, and I don't want to just drive around aimlessly. And I mean, it just feels bizarre to me to go to restaurants, bars, or whatever else, alone. It's not so much that I'd be worried people there would be judging me, but I'd feel kinda sad sitting at a restaurant or bar or whatever by myself, while seeing couples, groups of friends, etc. around me. Over the summer, I actually was invited to a get together at a bar with some coworkers one night. I got there a bit earlier than everyone else, and I just kinda sat at the bar, feeling uncomfortable, and kinda bummed out seeing all the happy couples and friends around me.

 

There's also the fact that I don't have a particularly good sense of what's "nice" and/ or "romantic". I'm a fairly simple person, really. Some place could be totally crummy and not at all romantic for a date, and yet I might still think it's an okay place without realizing how other people see it.

 

You have stated multiple times that you are extremely scared of being considered 'creepy' when it comes to the thought of expressing any kind of sexual interest in a woman to the point that you are very afraid of even the most innocuous kind of touch. Expressing physical attraction (in a tasteful, respectful manner) is an essential part of socializing, flirting, dating.

 

If you don't show or express this, then anyone around you will assume that you are NOT interested in this type of interaction and thus will NOT engage in it with you ... because it is the RESPECTFUL thing to do. You really can't expect people to be mind readers and magically know that you would like to be included in this type of playful interaction, if your entire body language says "I'm scared of this".

 

I used to have a colleague who also had a lot of social anxiety. Whenever someone would approach her, her body was starting to ever so slightly back away. If someone accidentally brushed against her, she would noticeably flinch, however she was quite unaware of doing so. Of course as soon as we noticed, we all made sure that we would keep further distance than we would normally do and we don't talk about certain subjects out of respect for her, not because we supposedly 'don't like her'.

 

Well, see, that's the thing, I don't really know what constitutes "tasteful" and "respectful" in terms of expressing physical attraction, so I feel like it's better off if I just avoid it completely. I don't really know how to tell if my body language presents me, in that manner. I mean, to my knowledge, I don't flinch or pull away if someone touches me. Heck, last year, the girl I like had briefly went through a phase of touching me, usually to brush something off my shoulder. I remember one time, at a bar, she reached accross the table just to fix something on my jacket, and before she did so, she went "Hold on, don't freak out", and after she did it, I gave her this funny sort of look and sarcastically said "Oh no, I'm totally freaking out right now!", and we shared a little laugh over that.

 

I don't know the origin of it, but I have it in my head that me expressing any kind of physical interest in a girl whatsoever is "disrespectful" and "wrong". Touching is something that just doesn't come natural to me. I don't feel I need to do it to emphasize things when I talk, and I don't know how to use it in a "playful" way without being weird and awkward about it.

 

I have noticed something else about you (stop me, if I'm wrong): you are trying very hard to control what kind of picture you want to portray in any given situation (thus why you want to know what to expect before exposing yourself to any kind of situation). In order to 'minimize' what you need to handle and strategize about in advance, you separate certain aspects of your personality and interests when you interact with others: for example when it comes to dating, you try to limit it entirely to the intellectual and emotional aspects, whereas the physical and sexual side you explore on different websites with woman who you consider 'undateable'.

 

Hardly anyone is so extremely compartmentalized (most people are to a certain degree, but not to those extremes). It's alright to be your 'whole self' at any given moment. It's alright to show a woman that you are attracted to her, while it's also ok to have an intellectual or emotional interaction with women you may want to explore your physical side.

 

In a weird sort of way, I see sex, in general, as a sort of "fetish". Whereas, sex is relatively normal to others and they feel ashamed of kinkier fetishes they have, sex in general to me seems like some kind of perverse fetish that I feel ashamed of. I think maybe that could be an explanation as to why I "compartmentalize" it?

 

With most girls, I can't really "see" myself being physically affectionate with them. Physical attraction never draws me to a girl; I mean, I can tell if a girl is "generally attractive" or not, but I never feel personal attraction based on physical qualities. I'm much more interested in someone that can be a good companion, and a lover later on, rather than finding a "hot" girl that I want to "do stuff to".

 

If I like a girl, I can visualize myself having basic physical affection with them; with either of the two girls I had feelings for, I could imagine us kissing, or cuddling, or that kind of thing, but even still, the very idea of me being naked with them, having sex with them, etc. just seemed "wrong" to me. The desire is there, deep down, but the idea of me having sex with anyone just seems wrong, something I feel ashamed of.

 

Perhaps this is just due to my lack of actual experience, but so much stuff involving sex just seems really "out there" to me. Like, the most inoffensive idea of sex to me is just plain old gentle missionary sex. Hand stuff, oral stuff, different positions, etc., that all seems really... "dirty", to me, and kinda makes my head spin. The stuff I hear about from other people always makes me think "People really do that?!".

 

And yet there is more to Matt than he chooses to share with the outside world. If there wasn't, then you would've hardly have maintained a #235 post thread. Some threads have no replies.

 

I think in public, you've actually locked down an awful lot of yourself. You censure a major chunk of yourself. And if you aren't sporting Channing Tatum good looks, then one is forced to work on one's personality image.

 

I understand that some of beliefs come from your family's paradigm, which you have adopted. Pessimism above all else. Yet do you feel that this might distance people from you, because they never get any where near the real Matt. The real Matt is heavily censored because you deem him as unacceptable.

 

You've never been given the message that you can be yourself and be loved and accepted. You didn't get it at home. You didn't get it at school, so where might you get it from Matt? You may hope that romance brings it, but we have the whole eNotalone to prove this theory doesn't always work when dealing with a rocky self-image.

 

Yeah, I mean, I've said in past topics that I do feel like I "censor" parts of myself for the outside world. Parts such as the whole physical attraction/ sex side of things, and even just parts of my personality I feel might push people away. For instance, my sense of humor tends to be very dry, snarky, and sarcastic. I hold that back around a lot of people, because I know that can easily offend people, and I don't want to do that. One of the things I want most in a partner is someone I don't feel I have to hold that kind of stuff back against. In a way, that was one of the big draws I had to this last girl, because once I got to know her a little, I didn't feel I had to hold back or filter myself at all around her. That's not something I can say about anyone else that I've met. Of course, now that things have taken some bumpy turns between she and I, there are parts of myself I do "censor" around her now, simply because I don't know what's "okay" with her, at this point.

 

I don't really know where I can find that "message" from. I wish I knew. But it's a mystery to me.

[blueidealist24]

 

 

Well, see, that's the thing, I don't really know what constitutes "tasteful" and "respectful" in terms of expressing physical attraction, so I feel like it's better off if I just avoid it completely. I don't really know how to tell if my body language presents me, in that manner. I mean, to my knowledge, I don't flinch or pull away if someone touches me. Heck, last year, the girl I like had briefly went through a phase of touching me, usually to brush something off my shoulder. I remember one time, at a bar, she reached accross the table just to fix something on my jacket, and before she did so, she went "Hold on, don't freak out", and after she did it, I gave her this funny sort of look and sarcastically said "Oh no, I'm totally freaking out right now!", and we shared a little laugh over that.

 

 

Her saying that to begin with gives me the impression that she may have thought you were someone who is uncomfortable with touching (well, I guess she would have been right). That relates to what you said earlier, about people just inexplicably not including you in discussions about sex and whatnot.. I think it was Penelope who said this - they think you would be uncomfortable so they don't include you out of respect - and I think she may be right.

[Deciduous]

Hello Mattw,

 

I think a lot has come out in the last few pages. I think we are getting some-where again.

 

No doubt you have a very good idea of what I'm going to say below.

 

Up to now you have carried the view, the world has sexually rejected you due to your height, lack of personal confidence and lack of women you are attracted to. In fact you have written that very statement, and posted it on more than one thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But isn't more accurate to say, you specifically avoid sex and sexual relationships. Consciously you crave a sexual relationship. Unconsciously you don't want to go anywhere near it. Doesn't it make sense that you would fall for a woman with whom you cannot have sex? I honestly don't think this is a coincidence. You know, those magically pyschological coincidences that you used to cling to. Honey, they don't exist.

 

With you current crush you can be sure of remaining safe. Never put in a position where you'd be forced to confront those fears. I think if she'd demonstrated sexual interest, your crush would have died a long time ago. It would instantly been snuffed out.

 

And as we discussed earlier, the unconscious always wins out.

 

There is an aversion here. Aversion is a strong word, but this is what lies at the core of this issue. Emotional reactions are not based on our decisions and an emotional aversion is no exception. An aversion is an unconscious, physiological association of a particular behavior with an extremely unpleasant emotional experience. Those who have that association have no control over the aversive reaction that is inevitable.

 

The only way to cure it or deal with it is to look at it's origins and see why it came about. It has come from some-where - and that aversion is strong enough to keep you away from sex. Although you perceive it as an external block - i.e. the external world is keeping you away from sex - it is not.

 

So put your thinking cap on. Why would this have come about? Where has it come from?

 

Deci

[penelope13]

Yeah, I mean, I know if I "work hard", I could try to make changes. I just feel like the issues I have at home, and at work, and everything, they're going to cause me to relapse. I feel like I need a new environment altogether. New job, new place to live (where it's just me), etc. Dealing with my mom is just too stressful. Being around the girl I have feelings for is just too stressful. Being at the same crummy job that I hate is just too stressful. I feel like I need to be away from all of that in order to really start making certain changes to my life.

 

You have spent some years at college now and I'm sure you have experienced that 'learning' is a skill in itself. It takes some trial and error and learning to know and get better at 'learning new things'. When I compare how I approached studying for a new subject 10 (or more) years ago in comparison to today I can see that my methods have changed a lot, that I'm more efficient about it, I know what works for me and what doesn't - however, I would never know this now, if I hadn't started to learn many, many years ago.

 

Don't fool yourself into believing that once you move out and have a new job you will magically be able to do all these new things and incorporate a lot of new changes all at the same time. If you are stressed now (in situations that you have known for years), you will be equally (if not more) stressed with all these new challenges and situations.

 

Doesn't it make sense to start learning some (just a select few) new skills now, so that you have a head start for when you are moving out?

 

Your challenges are mainly internal (don't mean to offend, but no point in beating around the bush): difficulty with initiating, difficulty with motivation and follow through. These things you could work on from the minute that you decide that YOU ARE WORTH IT.

 

 

Since you brought it up here, I want to make on last comment on why your physical activity at work is not sufficient to help with your depression: as you said, the proximity to this girl at work is causing you a lot of stress. Mental stress gets translated into biological/physical/physiological stress. The higher the experienced stress, the more strenuous it will be on your body and the more all the "negative biological players" will increase. Thus while you may be running around and using your muscles at work, your body will be way too busy to cope with handling your stress that it has NO capacity to start lowering all those biological agents that contribute to depression etc.

 

I don't really know "how" to explore. I don't know where to go or what to do, and I don't want to just drive around aimlessly. And I mean, it just feels bizarre to me to go to restaurants, bars, or whatever else, alone. It's not so much that I'd be worried people there would be judging me, but I'd feel kinda sad sitting at a restaurant or bar or whatever by myself, while seeing couples, groups of friends, etc. around me. Over the summer, I actually was invited to a get together at a bar with some coworkers one night. I got there a bit earlier than everyone else, and I just kinda sat at the bar, feeling uncomfortable, and kinda bummed out seeing all the happy couples and friends around me.

 

As said: why not pretend being a tourist in your own city/ region. Buy a guide book from the tourist office and use it to help discover your city and surroundings. If someone has lived in the same place for their entire life, you will not find a lot of understanding from a potential date if you say "I don't know any places". - The good thing is this is something that is easily remedied.

I understand that maybe going to a restaurant by yourself feels uncomfortable. But how about taking your computer (or whatever device you use) and start sitting in a coffee shop for an hour on your day off? - Many people do that, it's totally normal. You could see which coffee shop has the most comfy setting, best service etc and you could people watch, maybe even strike up a conversation with someone one day. The options are really endless.

 

 

Well, see, that's the thing, I don't really know what constitutes "tasteful" and "respectful" in terms of expressing physical attraction, so I feel like it's better off if I just avoid it completely.

 

You learn by OBSERVING other people, many people (where the whole sitting in a coffee shop could come in handy).

 

I don't really know how to tell if my body language presents me, in that manner. I mean, to my knowledge, I don't flinch or pull away if someone touches me. Heck, last year, the girl I like had briefly went through a phase of touching me, usually to brush something off my shoulder. I remember one time, at a bar, she reached accross the table just to fix something on my jacket, and before she did so, she went "Hold on, don't freak out", and after she did it, I gave her this funny sort of look and sarcastically said "Oh no, I'm totally freaking out right now!", and we shared a little laugh over that.

 

That is quite telling: she TOLD you that she is aware that you are uncomfortable with physical closeness, i.e. that she is fully aware of it. And she is also aware that you are trying to hide this.

[Deciduous]

Her saying that to begin with gives me the impression that she may have thought you were someone who is uncomfortable with touching (well, I guess she would have been right). That relates to what you said earlier, about people just inexplicably not including you in discussions about sex and whatnot.. I think

it was Penelope who said this - they think you would be uncomfortable so they don't include you out of respect - and I think she may be right.

 

Oi you, Did you skip post #234? Very much agree with the one below though.

 

I noticed that too. I also noticed that you telling the people who weren't being that supportive to just come back and visit your thread once a month or so if they're frustrated was a positive change in behavior, too. You were kind of defending yourself, but not by making excuses like you were before.

 

Yeah, it's got to be about creating a safe environment for oneself.

 

Don't fool yourself into believing that once you move out and have a new job you will magically be able to do all these new things and incorporate a lot of new changes all at the same time. If you are stressed now (in situations that you have known for years), you will be equally (if not more) stressed with all these new challenges and situations.

 

Ain't that the truth. Mental conditioning does not magically vanish because one changes location. I think it can help, if seen as solution in conjunction to internal change - not instead of

[MattW]

Her saying that to begin with gives me the impression that she may have thought you were someone who is uncomfortable with touching (well, I guess she would have been right). That relates to what you said earlier, about people just inexplicably not including you in discussions about sex and whatnot.. I think it was Penelope who said this - they think you would be uncomfortable so they don't include you out of respect - and I think she may be right.

 

That is quite telling: she TOLD you that she is aware that you are uncomfortable with physical closeness, i.e. that she is fully aware of it. And she is also aware that you are trying to hide this.

 

I guess, but like I said, I can't think of any reason why people would have that impression of me. The only times I ever "react" in any kind of way to someone touching me is when it happens by surprise. In which case, I might "jump" a little bit, but that's more due to the surprise than the touching itself. Other than that kind of thing, I don't recall showing any reason to believe that I'm not comfortable with touch. Unless you simply count the fact that I don't do it to other people.

 

Up to now you have carried the view, the world has sexually rejected you due to your height, lack of personal confidence and lack of women you are attracted to. In fact you have written that very statement, and posted it on more than one thread.

 

But isn't more accurate to say, you specifically avoid sex and sexual relationships. Consciously you crave a sexual relationship. Unconsciously you don't want to go anywhere near it. Doesn't it make sense that you would fall for a woman with whom you cannot have sex? I honestly don't think this is a coincidence. You know, those magically pyschological coincidences that you used to cling to. Honey, they don't exist.

 

With you current crush you can be sure of remaining safe. Never put in a position where you'd be forced to confront those fears. I think if she'd demonstrated sexual interest, your crush would have died a long time ago. It would instantly been snuffed out.

 

And as we discussed earlier, the unconscious always wins out.

 

I don't really know if it's accurate to say I avoid them, because I rarely find myself feeling personally attracted enough to a girl to attempt to "avoid" them. Honestly, I fell for the last girl before I realized there would be no opportunity for a relationship and/ or sex. And if we're going by the logic of falling for someone I can't have sex with, shouldn't I be falling for more girls, since I can't see myself having sex with anyone? Honestly, I don't think I would've backed off if she expressed interest; granted, I would've been extremely nervous, and there's no way I'd be able to ever make the "first move" on a girl, for sex or any kind of physical intimacy. But I don't think I would've lost interest in this girl. Originally, it wasn't about wanting what I couldn't have; quite the opposite, actually. This girl seemed perfectly attainable to me, and to sweeten the deal, she happened to have all the qualities I'd hoped to find in a girl.

 

There is an aversion here. Aversion is a strong word, but this is what lies at the core of this issue. Emotional reactions are not based on our decisions and an emotional aversion is no exception. An aversion is an unconscious, physiological association of a particular behavior with an extremely unpleasant emotional experience. Those who have that association have no control over the aversive reaction that is inevitable.

 

The only way to cure it or deal with it is to look at it's origins and see why it came about. It has come from some-where - and that aversion is strong enough to keep you away from sex. Although you perceive it as an external block - i.e. the external world is keeping you away from sex - it is not.

 

So put your thinking cap on. Why would this have come about? Where has it come from?

 

I really don't know, to be honest. I'm trying to think back and find some kind of root to this issue, but I'm not seeing anything. I mean, my parents were never strict about the topic of sex (more open about it than a lot of other parents probably would be, I'd say), so it's not like they tried to repress me. I did go to Catholic grade school and high school, and they of course kinda preached the whole "sex is for marriage", but I honestly never paid much attention to that kind of thing to let it affect me. Other than that, I don't know where these notions would've come from.

 

In some ways, I've always sort of just been more into the idea of "romance" and "love", and sex was always just something I never thought much about. I kinda grew up watching and seeing a lot of sappy "romantic comedy" type shows and movies, and that really influenced a lot of what I "fantasized" about. Some people use the term "Disney love", because in a lot of kids movies and shows, whenever "romance" exists between two characters, it's all cute and bubbly, but they never imply any kind of sexual relations at all.

 

In my teens, it seemed like everyone else was into sex and "hooking up", "getting laid", whatever, and I just wanted to find someone I could be romantic with. Honestly, that's really still where my interest lies.

 

I have to say, though, when I, er, "fantasize" about sex, it tends to revolve around certain fetishes of mine. In particular, I seem to have a "kink" for older women (40-60), so when I have my "private time", I get some kind of weird kick out of visualizing myself with a much older woman.

 

You have spent some years at college now and I'm sure you have experienced that 'learning' is a skill in itself. It takes some trial and error and learning to know and get better at 'learning new things'. When I compare how I approached studying for a new subject 10 (or more) years ago in comparison to today I can see that my methods have changed a lot, that I'm more efficient about it, I know what works for me and what doesn't - however, I would never know this now, if I hadn't started to learn many, many years ago.

 

To be honest, all college ever really taught me was that I'm good at following instructions, and temporarily memorizing stuff in order to pass tests. That's pretty much the only reason I've done well at school in the past, because when I know I'm going to be tested on something, I can briefly memorize the material, but I typically don't absorb a whole lot of it, and most of it doesn't stick with me beyond the testing period.

 

Don't fool yourself into believing that once you move out and have a new job you will magically be able to do all these new things and incorporate a lot of new changes all at the same time. If you are stressed now (in situations that you have known for years), you will be equally (if not more) stressed with all these new challenges and situations.

 

Doesn't it make sense to start learning some (just a select few) new skills now, so that you have a head start for when you are moving out?

 

It's not that I believe getting away will have some magical effect on me, it's just, I don't really feel like I'm in full control of my life. I get into fights often with my mom, and I often submit to what she wants because I get tired of the fighting. Work stresses me out because I'm sick of the way management runs things, I'm sick of the way management and other employees play favorites, and I'm sick of being around a girl I'm crazy about but can't have. I just want to start fresh, I want a blank slate. I know being on my own would present new challenges, difficulties, and stress factors, but I think as long as I'm still at home, and working at the same place, I'm ultimately going to let my bad habits continue to dominate me.

 

Your challenges are mainly internal (don't mean to offend, but no point in beating around the bush): difficulty with initiating, difficulty with motivation and follow through. These things you could work on from the minute that you decide that YOU ARE WORTH IT.

 

Unfortunately, I don't feel like that's a decision I can make now, or any time soon.

 

Since you brought it up here, I want to make on last comment on why your physical activity at work is not sufficient to help with your depression: as you said, the proximity to this girl at work is causing you a lot of stress. Mental stress gets translated into biological/physical/physiological stress. The higher the experienced stress, the more strenuous it will be on your body and the more all the "negative biological players" will increase. Thus while you may be running around and using your muscles at work, your body will be way too busy to cope with handling your stress that it has NO capacity to start lowering all those biological agents that contribute to depression etc.

 

I suppose that makes sense. But in fairness, even if I did some sort of physical activity beyond what I do at work, it doesn't mean I wouldn't still be stressed out while doing it. I tend to dwell on my issues a lot, regardless of what I'm doing. If I'm watching a movie, a TV show, reading a book, listening to music, playing a video game, anything, the bad thoughts and feelings always end up creeping up on me and bumming me out, sometimes to the point where I don't even want to continue doing what I'm doing when it happens. In other words, even if I did exercise or work out or even just go for a walk, I'd still be stressed out, mentally, while doing it, because I'd still be thinking about the things that bring me down.

 

As said: why not pretend being a tourist in your own city/ region. Buy a guide book from the tourist office and use it to help discover your city and surroundings. If someone has lived in the same place for their entire life, you will not find a lot of understanding from a potential date if you say "I don't know any places". - The good thing is this is something that is easily remedied.

I understand that maybe going to a restaurant by yourself feels uncomfortable. But how about taking your computer (or whatever device you use) and start sitting in a coffee shop for an hour on your day off? - Many people do that, it's totally normal. You could see which coffee shop has the most comfy setting, best service etc and you could people watch, maybe even strike up a conversation with someone one day. The options are really endless.

 

I guess. I've always held the belief that most people learn about places and their surroundings based on their social circles (as in, they have friends or other acquaintances that tell them about places and/ or take them to these places, and they learn about them, and whatnot). I just wish I could have that kind of learning experience. I don't know if I could just go somewhere by myself, even to just sit in a coffee shop for a while. I'd just feel antsy, and I'd probably spend the entire time sitting in the corner, with my face buried in my cell phone, not "absorbing" anything around me.

 

You learn by OBSERVING other people, many people (where the whole sitting in a coffee shop could come in handy).

 

I've been observing people and their physical interactions for quite some time, now, and I still don't really feel like I understand it, I still feel like it would be weird and/ or "creepy" for me to do the kind of things that a lot of other people manage to get away with. I see what people do, but most people have different standards for different people. It might be "okay" for certain people to be physical with a particular person, but that same person might find it offensive or unpleasant if a different set of people were physical in the same way with them.

 

I tend to believe that, for me, I ALWAYS fall under the "weird"/ "creepy" category with that kind of thing, that no one really wants to feel my touch.

[penelope13]

To be honest, all college ever really taught me was that I'm good at following instructions, and temporarily memorizing stuff in order to pass tests.

 

Please don't say or think that you haven't received PLENTY of detailed instructions of things you could try to do differently, but you choose not to follow any of them.

 

In other words, even if I did exercise or work out or even just go for a walk, I'd still be stressed out, mentally, while doing it, because I'd still be thinking about the things that bring me down.

 

Have you ever done any kind of physical activity that literally makes you gasp for air and the only thought you can muster is 'how to make it through the next second/minute' - i.e. your body/brain doesn't even have time/space/energy to have any active thoughts?

[MattW]

Have you ever done any kind of physical activity that literally makes you gasp for air and the only thought you can muster is 'how to make it through the next second/minute' - i.e. your body/brain doesn't even have time/space/energy to have any active thoughts?

 

Not that I can recall, no. My mind is my dominant factor, and I have no real interest in pushing my body to a near breaking point just to try to have a brief period of time in the day where I can't think about doing anything because of how stressed out my body is.

[penelope13]

I guess, but like I said, I can't think of any reason why people would have that impression of me. The only times I ever "react" in any kind of way to someone touching me is when it happens by surprise. In which case, I might "jump" a little bit, but that's more due to the surprise than the touching itself. Other than that kind of thing, I don't recall showing any reason to believe that I'm not comfortable with touch. Unless you simply count the fact that I don't do it to other people.

 

You watch TV, right? (I'm not familiar with the show you talked about earlier). But you must experience scenes/ incidences where the character doesn't verbalize his thoughts, but it's obvious if he is happy, afraid, shy etc - i.e. NON verbal expressions.

 

It's not that one can always feel/see/recognize one's own non-verbal communication, but just because I can't feel it, doesn't mean that I'm not doing it.

 

There are many subtle body movements people do when they are uncomfortable, afraid, nervous, shy etc. Somebody trying to control their facial/body language as well is recognizable.

 

Do you really want to claim to be one of the very few rare people (if at all any) who knows exactly when your eye lids move, your eyebrows lift, your pupils widen in less than a millisecond? Those movements are utterly controlled by the subconscious and are reflexive movements, yet the human eye is able to recognize them.

[Deciduous]

Seriously young Matt?

 

Four people on this thread have explained non-verbal communication. For easy reference I will put them on one page. I'm even going to put a web-link. Please read and tell us your thoughts.

 

(EXTRACT) Nonverbal Communication WikiLink

link removed

 

Nonverbal communication represents two-thirds of all communication.

 

Nonverbal communication can portray a message both verbally and with the correct body signals. Body signals comprise physical features, conscious and unconscious gestures and signals, and the mediation of personal space.

 

The wrong message can be established if the body language conveyed does not match a verbal message. Nonverbal communication strengthens a first impression in common situations like attracting a partner or in a business interview: impressions are on average formed within the first four seconds of contact.[4] First encounters or interactions with another person strongly affect a person's perception.

 

When the other person or group is absorbing the message they are focused on the entire environment around them, meaning the other person uses all five senses in the interaction: 83% sight, 11% hearing, 3% smell, 2% touch and 1% taste.[6]

 

I have high hopes for a nobel prize if you can catagorically debunk what psychologists have told us for years. What sociologists have told us for years. What zoologists have told us for years. What every psychology text book has told us for years.

 

Yet, you have good reason to believe it isn't true. Or perhaps - isn't true in your case. So, talk me through your theory Matt - and lets us debunk those PHD Psychologists, once and all - so that we may move away from this topic.

 

Why not put your theory forward here, in 1 page? Let's see your full thoughts on this topic in one place and one post.

 

You have a unique opportunity to update us (and Human Behavioural Scientists) on psychological therom.

 

Remember there could be a nobel prize in it for you.

 

Decixxx

 

Post #248

You watch TV, right? (I'm not familiar with the show you talked about earlier). But you must experience scenes/ incidences where the character doesn't verbalize his thoughts, but it's obvious if he is happy, afraid, shy etc - i.e. NON verbal expressions.

 

It's not that one can always feel/see/recognize one's own non-verbal communication, but just because I can't feel it, doesn't mean that I'm not doing it.

 

There are many subtle body movements people do when they are uncomfortable, afraid, nervous, shy etc. Somebody trying to control their facial/body language as well is recognizable.

 

Do you really want to claim to be one of the very few rare people (if at all any) who knows exactly when your eye lids move, your eyebrows lift, your pupils widen in less than a millisecond? Those movements are utterly controlled by the subconscious and are reflexive movements, yet the human eye is able to recognize them.

Post #146

60-90% of communication is non-verbal. You might hide your inner turmoil with your words, Mattw. Yet, non-verbally speaking, it is difficult to hide a lack of confidence, or discomfort with one's own self. Others do sense these discrepancies and it makes them uneasy to be around it. (although they are not quite sure why)Deci

 

 

Post #141

I hope by now you are starting to realize that your sensors are very off from how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you.

 

You may not understand why, or think it's fair, however if you want to be able to interact and connect with other people on a deeper level you HAVE to learn to see yourself and your behavior from the point of view of the people you are trying to connect with. It's like moving to a different country where you don't speak the language. It's not your 'fault' that you don't speak their language, nor is it the fault of the other people that they don't speak yours. However, all you can do is learn the new language if you want to communicate in a meaningful way.

Post #136

I work with a guy like this, and I have known others in the past. The jokes, smiles, funny stories, the eagerness and willingness to please is just the outward manifestation of their lack of confidence, self esteem, and the need to find validation in the acceptance of others. You may think you're acting like a fun guy, but believe me, people are more perceptive than perhaps you give them credit.

 

Post #135

You said in post 124 you didn't know what made you unattractive to people so how can you be so certain that your internal problems aren't the problem? You don't see those traits as unattractive? Or do you tell yourself people can't notice?

 

I asked you how you felt on the inside, if you are as comfortable with this classmate as you are with others. Here you tell me you are internalizing your issues, that makes me think the answer is no, you aren't as comfortable and relaxed with others as you are with this classmate, because if you were you would have no issues to internalize.

 

How can you know you seem calm and relaxed when you are anxious with your thought running in circles? Did this classmate comment about you being chill and laid back when you were at your most anxious? Is he generally good at picking up people's moods?

 

 

 

I am not doubting it but nothing of that impedes them from sensing your inner chaos. You could be the most smiling, silly, joking you and still come accross as sad, some of the saddest people I know are exactly that, they smile, joke with me, say all kinds of silly things, yet their eyes give it all away and they seem so immensely sad.

[MattW]

I'm not saying it's not something to do with my nonverbal communication, I'm just saying that I don't know what it is, so that I can change it. Generally, I try to observe and analyze myself, and I just can't figure out how exactly I'm sending that kind of message to people. I don't want it to be that way, but I can't really do anything about it until I know what it actually is.