How to Never Become Friend-Zoned with Girls

[Abbykemp]

I agree. A guy is much more attractive to me if he is busy and appears as confident ( even if deep down he isn't - I don't want to know about a guys insecurities until a relationship is established.) if he appears to have a life and doesnt hound me for attention and tell me how amazing i am constantly and I wonder why, I know there is something there. I think it is the needy guys that play the biggest game - their game just normally backfires. In my experience anyway.

[ExcitedtoSleep]

You guys do realize what you're implying, right? Re-read his post. You both basically said you want a guy who has no friends, never touches you, is needy, and doesn't feel good about themselves. If that's honestly the type of guy you want, um ... have fun is all I have to say.

 

Haha. Your first post, but it is a good one and true as well.

[zep]

ugh this is so annoying. girls make good friends too. you dont have to force chemistry with every girl you meet, sometimes being just friends is okay. If you have to go out of your way to build a feeling of attraction with someone you probably just aren't a good match.

[zep]

This entire post. Over half of my married friends were friends for a year or more before they got together. If the natural attraction is there, it will happen. If it's not, there's not point in faking it with someone.

[junebug123]

ugh this is so annoying. girls make good friends too. you dont have to force chemistry with every girl you meet, sometimes being just friends is okay. If you have to go out of your way to build a feeling of attraction with someone you probably just aren't a good match.

 

Ummmmm, i think the problem with this statement in regards to the OP original post is that he isn't saying females don't make good friends. I think you are taking it out of context entirely. The OP is saying when he goes out to meet women and date them and those women end up "befriending him" and dating others instead, he has found a few techniques that have helped him.

 

I don't think the OP is saying sleep with every women you encounter because they serve no better purpose.

 

Personally, i think the techniques are quite smart because you are using reverse psychology which works for some strange reason for many females. And while it may not work on every women, i am sure that for the purposes of this thread, it works on enough women to be an affective tool.

[zep]

Ummmmm, i think the problem with this statement in regards to the OP original post is that he isn't saying females don't make good friends. I think you are taking it out of context entirely. The OP is saying when he goes out to meet women and date them and those women end up "befriending him" and dating others instead, he has found a few techniques that have helped him.

 

I don't think the OP is saying sleep with every women you encounter because they serve no better purpose.

 

Personally, i think the techniques are quite smart because you are using reverse psychology which works for some strange reason for many females. And while it may not work on every women, i am sure that for the purposes of this thread, it works on enough women to be an affective tool.

 

Ugh yea i guess just referring to "techniques" and "affective tools" and "working".... The difference between friendship and dating is sex, so this is basically about how to get sex out of women instead of just, you know, enjoying their personalities and minds and them as people. ugh. I just think love and attraction should be natural and describing manipulating women to get sex like this seems predatory. I know, I know it's for "dating" and I'm sure the OP has the best intentions (to have sex with women in addition to being their friend)... he just has to use "techniques" to get women... sorry PUA culture disgusts me completely.

 

And what does it matter that a girl would date someone else? What does that have to do with it? Maybe she has NATURAL attraction with others? Because she's open to having sex with some men it's fair game to manipulate the situation and put on a front to get them to have sex with you? It's somehow not creepy because "she wants it"? No. It's f-ing creepy. Anytime I pick up on any PUA "techniques" I am sooooooo turned off. Really it pisses me off. Predators.

[Klokwurk]

These are good tips. Kudos.

[happy_snapper]

I've recently had dealings with the "friend-zone" (in the opposite direction to the usual) and from the incredibly narrow experience I have, I can definitely say that people are too complicated to make one set of rules. A set of guidelines might help some people (maybe even most people), but it isn't going to work for everyone and will do the opposite for some.

 

You could take every tip and overturn it with a real-life example (well maybe not tip 6 from the OP, that's just a good tip in general).

My cousin got together with her husband because he listened to her problems and didn't mind sharing his. I think she said something like "At the beginning he was more like a counsellor than a boyfriend". She found his willingness to listen and his wisdom attractive at a very early stage. She may have been quite needy, but they seem to be going fine. If he'd taken tip 1 from the OP, she'd have crossed him of as just another uninterested player.

 

Women don't all think in the same way, they don't all feel or act in the same way either. I think that saying "Do this, then this, then this and a woman will do this" is selling women short.

 

Two examples:

A)There's a woman who posts on this forum (I've forgotten your name, sorry), who said that she puts men permanently into the friend-zone if they don't state their intentions straight away. They're friends and therefore unattractive.

B)I have a female friend who I've known for quite a while, who recently told me that something I did last time we met really turned her on. Out of the blue, after about 2 years of acquaintanceship/friendship, the way she thought about me changed. It was a perfect role-reversal from the "norm" actually, I've never seen her as anything other than a friend, so she's stuck in the friend-zone. (Take that gender-roles!)

 

The way attraction "works" for these two women are completely different. And that's only two examples.

Hey, I could be completely wrong, my experience is very limited and mostly from an "outsider's point of view". But surely the fact that I know of a number of exceptions to the "rules" even with my limited knowledge of the subject is some indication that there's something wrong with that way of thinking.

 

There's no problem trying different things if you aren't having any luck, but don't go changing your personality to fit with somebody else's expectations (or worse, the expectations you think that somebody else has), unless you're looking for an encounter that won't last long enough for them to find the real you.

[sonicfan287]

I could argue (and have in the past) that being in a relationship entails a lot more things than "a friendship with sex" as some have referred to it. I'm not trying to disagree with any of the points raised here (particularly those by 'zep' and other), nor am I trying to make any grand points about the "friend zone" or if there is such a thing, but my definition of a relationship may be a bit different than some others. While obviously, there needs to be a rapport between a couple (one that was formed without using 'tricks' or hiding behind a mask) there needs to be communication, trust, reliability etc. and it's not as simple as "i find this person attractive so therefore, they're my bf/gf and not the other people I'm friends with"

 

As someone who's been a nearly lifetime "friends zone" member (I didn't even know that was a term until a few years back, anyway, so I was never making any attempt to 'stay out of it') its actually hurt me more for other reasons than "oh, she doesn't want to have sex with me". For the most part, I don't have feelings for my female friends but it has happened and the reason why it hurts so bad to stay friends with them (to me anyway, and this may not be the popular opinion) is because i feel like she doesn't need me as much, or trust me the way she does a potential boyfriend(or actual boyfriend) and while I know I'm definitely over sensitive about this stuff, it's a blow to my self esteem in many ways and getting back to my original point, there's more than a longing for sex behind my motives for wanting to be certain people's boyfriends.

 

I want to enjoy more time with them, clear and simple. A lot of my female friends who have boyfriends, I never see them, nor do any guys, bc their bf's are usually protective about that. Additionally, their bf's go on vacations, personal trips over each others families, cooking together etc. a lot of things that friends don't usually do together unless theyre very close friends. So, to me, I can be friends with a woman with no problem, but it doesn't mean I don't get jealous that their boyfriends get to spend all this extra time with them or that they wouldn't want to spend this time with me. Just offering another perspective about what I feel is lacking when you're "just friends" with someone.

[Coolstorybro]

I find this friend-zone nonsense sad, it's like some guy who thought every woman was a potential "lay" being unable to face that maybe some women are not attracted to them.

[goodfoot]

I think that women have the capability of being predatory as well. A lot of women make situations as ambiguous as possible so they can have a bunch of male suitors with no real intentions of reciprocating with most of them, or at times none of them at all. She's having intimate conversations and going on pseudo-dates with all these guys. Then if anyone calls them out on it she can say they're "just friends" and the guy looks jealous. Inexperienced guys can spend months bending over backwards to make a girl happy that cares nothing about them. I feel like people on here are quick to be sympathetic when a girl gets "preyed on" but when the tables are turned the guy gets vilified. At the end of the day, both men and women are responsible for their own actions.

[goodfoot]

I find this friend-zone nonsense sad, it's like some guy who thought every woman was a potential "lay" being unable to face that maybe some women are not attracted to them.

 

I have been in the "friend-zone" before and for me it had very little to do with sex. You are just trying to shame people and at the same time devaluing women by saying sex is all they are good for.

[happy_snapper]

I think he means that it seems to push aside the ridiculous idea that the woman might have an opinion of her own.

The friend-zone way of thinking is entirely centred on the person in the zone: How to stop yourself falling into it, how to get out of it"...

 

In reality, if a woman isn't attracted to you then it's quite likely that you'll end up as a friend, it doesn't matter how "unfriendlike" you act (of course she might not want to be your friend either if you don't pay any attention to her).

[Blue Spiral]

I have been in the "friend-zone" before and for me it had very little to do with sex. You are just trying to shame people and at the same time devaluing women by saying sex is all they are good for.

 

Alternately, the woman is devaluing the man by saying that friendship is all he's good for.

 

It's bad either way: if the man uses the woman for sex when she wants more, or if the woman uses the man for friendship when he wants more. One party is disrespecting the other, regardless of gender. One party is getting what they want, and the other party isn't getting what they want.

[Coolstorybro]

I have been in the "friend-zone" before and for me it had very little to do with sex. You are just trying to shame people and at the same time devaluing women by saying sex is all they are good for.

I don't think you understood anything I said.

I'm saying "friend zone" is an excuse when faced with rejection. If a woman isn't interested then they aren't interested, this "friend zone" excuse lets people think they are in control of the woman's feelings.

[goodfoot]

I think he means that it seems to push aside the ridiculous idea that the woman might have an opinion of her own.

The friend-zone way of thinking is entirely centred on the person in the zone: How to stop yourself falling into it, how to get out of it"...

 

In reality, if a woman isn't attracted to you then it's quite likely that you'll end up as a friend, it doesn't matter how "unfriendlike" you act (of course she might not want to be your friend either if you don't pay any attention to her).

 

 

 

I don't think you understood anything I said.

I'm saying "friend zone" is an excuse when faced with rejection. If a woman isn't interested then they aren't interested, this "friend zone" excuse lets people think they are in control of the woman's feelings.

 

I don't know if we just have different definitions of "friend zone". I have never taken it to mean that women don't have a say. Like I said before, it can be an ambiguous situation where the guy doesn't know what is going on. In some cases, if women plainly said they weren't interested, guys would decide to back off, so no "friend zone." At least when I say get out of the "friend zone" I'm referring to removing ambiguity. I usually do this by making it plain what I want and getting a response from her. If she wants to be friends and I am ok with that we would be friends. Not "friend zone", not "just friends", but ACTUALLY friends. As a heterosexual male, I wouldn't say I got "friendzoned" by a guy friend or say me and a guy friend were "just friends."

 

If she wants to be friends and I don't, I would stop trying to spend time with her. A lot of guys would stop talking to women if they made it plain the feelings weren't mutual. If we both want to date, then we date. All 3 of those resolutions to me means getting out the "friend zone."

 

Edit: I will admit that sometimes guys plainly get rejected and "friend zone" themselves trying to change her mind. Or they hide their feelings because they already know in their gut if they made their interest known the woman wouldn't reciprocate. But that isn't all cases.

[zep]

I think that women have the capability of being predatory as well. A lot of women make situations as ambiguous as possible so they can have a bunch of male suitors with no real intentions of reciprocating with most of them, or at times none of them at all. She's having intimate conversations and going on pseudo-dates with all these guys. Then if anyone calls them out on it she can say they're "just friends" and the guy looks jealous. Inexperienced guys can spend months bending over backwards to make a girl happy that cares nothing about them. I feel like people on here are quick to be sympathetic when a girl gets "preyed on" but when the tables are turned the guy gets vilified. At the end of the day, both men and women are responsible for their own actions.

 

Yea definitely women can be very predatory. I think this avoiding the friend zone thing is probably most analogous to women trading tips on how to get men to spend a lot of money on them. It's just ugly behavior and intentions.

[zep]

I don't think you understood anything I said.

I'm saying "friend zone" is an excuse when faced with rejection. If a woman isn't interested then they aren't interested, this "friend zone" excuse lets people think they are in control of the woman's feelings.

 

Yep exactly. And come on, women are in unrequited love with their guy friends ALL THE TIME. It's not the friendship that kills the attraction, it's the lack of attraction that results in the friendship. Men who think otherwise are just delusional, they can't deal with the fact that women aren't attracted to them because of who they intrinsically are.

[junebug123]

 

Because she's open to having sex with some men it's fair game to manipulate the situation and put on a front to get them to have sex with you?

 

Really it pisses me off. Predators.

 

 

You know what is funny, i never mentioned anything about sex. I don't think i even implied it, i said dating that doesn't mean casual sex in fact it is almost the exact opposite of a friends with benefits or causal relationship. Once again you have managed to taken things out of context in order to prove a point which is so far from the topic at hand.

 

Back when i was in junior high-school, and throughout most of high-school as well i dated plenty of girls and didn't have sex with any of them. I was a virgin and sex didn't matter much to me, what matter was establishing a deep and meaningful connection with these girls. Just being able to talk with someone, share secrets, kiss, hold, hug and have fun with; which to me was more exciting than just being friends.

 

If this was a guide to get in a women's pants, i would say it is not that good of a guide at all. If someone was making a guide like that, i am sure it would have more to do with get her drunk, take her home, type of advice. This is just an indirect approach for guys who want some spark in their lives, why do people always have to hate and destroy everything as being something its not.

 

You ladies and unfortunately some of you males are going on about how this is a pick up artist guide, the guy himself mentions that he is far from a player and if anything has admitted that he has had a lot of trouble in dealing with the opposite sex.

[goodfoot]

Disregard........

[zep]

Lying about who you are, acting in a way that is unnatural to you, for physical or emotional intimacy is just as bad. While I highly doubt OP is looking for a sex/kissing/physical intimacy-free relationship, misrepresenting yourself to get emotional intimacy is also wrong and immoral. Be yourself. Be honest. It's simple.

[goodfoot]

Lying about who you are, acting in a way that is unnatural to you, for physical or emotional intimacy is just as bad. While I highly doubt OP is looking for a sex/kissing/physical intimacy-free relationship, misrepresenting yourself to get emotional intimacy is also wrong and immoral. Be yourself. Be honest. It's simple.

 

If acting "unnatural" to get a relationship is wrong, there is no need for this forum. Everyone should just be themselves. Any advice given here is wrong and immoral.

[pl3asehelp]

If acting "unnatural" to get a relationship is wrong, there is no need for this forum. Everyone should just be themselves. Any advice given here is wrong and immoral.

 

I agree except for the part about advice being wrong or immoral. Be yourself and 99% of your problems go away.

[zep]

I agree except for the part about advice being wrong or immoral. Be yourself and 99% of your problems go away.

I think advice on how to become a certain way is good. How to be more patient, how to be more confident. Advice on how to *fake* it to trick someone into thinking you are that way is immoral. I'd much rather read a post telling men who are bad with women to work on a challenging hobby to gain confidence, or to participate in team sports to work on reading the body language of others. Advice is good, if its telling you how to actually improve yourself instead of tricks to pretend in the short term.

[allcity]

I haven't read this whole thread and I certainly appreciate the sentiment of the original post, but IMO the only tip anyone needs to follow in order to never get friend-zoned is:

 

Be the kind of man that women want to date

 

Being friend-zoned only ever happens when you're not that kind of man. Basically when you demonstrate time and time again that you have a lot to offer as a friend and nothing to offer as a partner.

 

Note the word 'demonstrate'. I'm not saying you don't have anything to offer as a partner. Just that you sure as hell don't show it off enough to have her chasing after you, scared that she'll get friend-zoned.

 

Besides, being friends first is one of the best ways to form a strong, healthy, long-lasting relationship. As long as you keep that fire burning between you, friend-zoned is something that'll never happen.