infidelity is complicated

[gwnguy]

Hi all,

 

I replied in someone else's thread something about cheating that was not very popular. I thought I should explain my situation. I'm not here to change anyone's mind, but I'm sure there is someone going through something similar.

 

Infidelity seems to be the one topic on this forum that has only black and white views. Everyone always says it's wrong (which I mostly agree with), there is no justifiable excuse, and it is the 'cheater' is always the one at fault. I think reality is a bit more nuanced though.

 

I've been with my wife for 21 years. We have two children, a house, investments, business interests, common friends, a great history together. My family adores her, and I get along well with her siblings and parents. So what could be wrong?

 

For the last 12 years we have had almost no sex. Before our 2nd child was born we went for about a year without any. It only took a few times to conceive and after that I was done for good.

 

My wife also worked for herself and would schedule herself around my schedule so that we never interacted. A few times I tried to schedule babysitting so we could have time together, but she freaked out at leaving the kids alone. I never tried that again.

 

Basically my wife was content to have me in the background, but never talk to me. I used to love her and for many years I was completely devastated at her lack of interest in me.

 

Over the years I have gradually withdrawn from her life. I do my best to avoid contact. I don't touch her, I try not to talk to her unnecessarily, I try and be a good roommate by cleaning and cooking, and I never try to rekindle romance because it only makes her mad.

 

As you can imagine, this lack of attention has left a bit of a hole in my life. My work allows me to meet lots of women. I have had a number of flirtatious 'almost' affairs, but I never crossed the line and let it become physical. I guess nowadays people call them emotional affairs.

 

My wife never seemed to care who I spent time with, who I emailed or texted, and generally anything else about me as long I came home to care for the kids while she went to work.

 

The last 2 year's have been different. I started working with a new team with two great women. I'm in my mid 40s. Both girls are younger (I'm the supervisor). Both also married, but to losers. At this point I have to say that I am fairly good looking so I know I have options. Believe me I would never say this out loud because it would sound so conceited. But It's important to admit because of what I'm about to write.

 

Things got hot with girl number 1 last year. She wanted a short term fling. I went as far as meeting her one night, but I couldn't go through with it. Number 2 and I developed a very close relationship and she kept me from sleeping with number 1. Along the way, we fell in love with each other.

 

I met up with number 2 few months ago and we let our feelings out. We both decided not to take things any further. I recommended her for an internal promotion (she deserved it) and thankfully she got it, and is off my team. She never told me, but I think she must have had counselling and was told not to contact me. I'm almost crying writing this.

 

Girl number 1 is still around and we are still close friends. I think she still has strong feelings for me, but I've managed stuff mine back inside.

 

Now back to my wife. She has suddenly become insanely jealous. I was texting number 1 the other day something completely innocuous and she freaked out. It's as if she realized I didn't care anything about her anymore. She was ok when I was miserable and lonely, but the thought of me being with another woman made her crazy.

 

I Guess my point to all this is that infidelity, at least sometimes, is complicated. I chose not to have sex with those women, and some others, not out of a sense of commitment to my marriage, but all the other baggage in my life such as kids, extended family, finances. Also I hate the thought of being a 'player'.

 

Now, when hear of cheating I don't rush to judgement. An extra beer or two and I could be that guy. And I wouldn't feel all that guilty. I don't want to be celibate the rest of my life, but it isn't important to my wife and I don't want to make her do anything she doesn't want to. I don't find her attractive now anyway.

 

If your significant other cheated on you, then look at your role in things. Some people just can't stop themselves and would cheat no matter what. This is not always the case. My wife created the conditions for me to have an affair. I didn't follow through on it....yet, but I can only live alone for so long before something gives.

[stranger88]

Its a complex situation and this is a very good analogy of why it is ok in some situations.

 

However I still feel in your case it is better to leave your wife then to engage in an affair behind your back, both from a legal and from a social standpoint. I would imagine your wife has probably had some type of affair already surely? Everyone needs physical comfort and if she isn't getting it from you where is she getting it?

 

What you described to me is certainly a relationship that needs to end, thats for sure.

[Vaglar]

I understand where you come from, it's a tricky situation but I can't agree on what you're doing based on what you wrote here so I'll ask you some questions.

First, did you talk about the lack of attention issue with your wife? What did she say? Did you you agree on a course of actions to either solve the problem or keep the status quo?

[Clio]

Did you ever tell your wife how neglected you felt? Did you try seeing a couple's counselor? Because it sounds like you tried to fix the problem silently on your own and then gave up. When a relationship fails, both people have done mistakes. Did you try to find the reasons why your wife is this way? I appreciate what you are saying and you have important reasons for the way you act. What I wonder though is have you tried to communicate your needs to your wife in a clear manner and failed? Because it sounds to me that somewhere along the way there was a major communication breakdown. Have you found why that is and how you may have contributed to it? You are describing a scenario where there has been serious emotional neglect on your wife's part. However, if we were to talk to her it may have been that she had serious reasons to have acted that way. E.g. Maybe that is how her parents' marriage was and she didn't know any better or maybe she suffered some kind of abuse. Maybe she felt neglected herself for some reason. It could be anything really. Did you try to get to the bottom of why she was acting this way?

[Moontiger]

Honestly, this is just typical cheater justification, "Life is hard therefore I will cheat"

 

I disagree that your situation is anymore complicated then anyone else. You built a life with someone and instead of dealing with the issues you saw growing in your relationship you have choose and easy way out where you get to play the proper family man and have a dirty little secret on the side.

 

Not saying your wife doesn't have issues but there are a ton of ways you could and should have dealt with this.

[Capricorn3]

OP: you could have got a divorce 12 years ago and you would have been free to start a new life and possibly even have re-married by now with a woman who is a better match for you. Instead, you CHOOSE to stay in a miserable "marriage", so you cannot blame anyone but yourself. I would have suggested marriage counselling, but after 12 years, I doubt it would make any difference at this point. See a lawyer and start divorce proceedings. Choice is yours.

[agent1607307371]

My wife created the conditions for me to have an affair.

 

No. By staying, by not speaking with your wife about this, you are just as responsible for the state of your marriage and your happiness in it. You checked out just as much, if not more reading this, as your wife did.

 

 

Also, the fact that both these women were younger than you and your "inferiors" at work... That doesn't help your argument. And I wouldn't be surprised if you have a reputation at work. These things get out.

[lemondust]

OP...I understand your feeling neglected, unloved, unattended to, but....if you're not happy why don't you leave?

 

If people walk away from what is making them unhappy (the wife in your case), then affairs don't need to happen.

[gwnguy]

I'll reply to all here at once. Yes, I have spoken to my wife many times in the past and we have gone to counselling. A complete waste of time!

 

I could have left anytime, and still could. Forgive me moontiger, Capricorn3, and agent, but you seem either young and inexperienced, or so blissfully happy in your relationship you can't imagine another way. Life has a way of drifting, and before you know it, decades have passed. People get busy with work, kids, hobbies, and whatever else. Divorce would just be another thing we didn't have time for and couldn't afford.

 

I did not go through with an affair because I couldn't see myself sneaking around, lying to people. I was also unwilling to drag the other woman into my mess that is my life. Even this seems like a selfish statement since they were both adults and capable of making decisions.

 

My point is, I used to be very judgemental of people, but now I can see how it happens. It's so easy to say "he/she cheated, I'm the victim, and any I did to cause this doesn't count." I admit I haven't always been the easiest guy to be around, but it was my wife who went cold first. The problem with my marriage, and many others I guess, is mismatched needs/ expectations. There is very little my wife wants or needs from me, while what I want she can't provide and see's no need for. It's not really anyone's fault. It's just the people are.

 

One piece of advice where I would agree with you Capricorn3 is doing something sooner than later. All the old people in the office always say the same thing to the younger ones just getting together: don't get married, don't get too attached, get separate houses, wait 10 years to see if celibacy is for you then decide... It's always easier for us to give that advice in hindsight (and joking), but I also know how hard it is to walk away from a life you've built.

[Kristenelaine]

cheating is cheating in my opinion. If you are miserable in your marriage dont stay in it, you are only teaching your children to stay in a miserable marriage where cheating can and probably will happen. Emotionally or physically.

 

Honestly, if I was with someone who was pushing me away to that extent, I would want to do what was best for both of us and what makes us both happy in the end...not stuck in an unfullfilling marriage. I mean, you guys dont even talk and you make the effort NOT to be around one another. It would be different if there was any affection at all, but there isnt.

 

Cheating is cheating in my books...nothing makes it right and there are no excuses. You have kept yourself in a situation where you are not happy...so if you cheat, it is your fault.

[journeynow]

My wife also worked for herself and would schedule herself around my schedule so that we never interacted. A few times I tried to schedule babysitting so we could have time together, but she freaked out at leaving the kids alone. I never tried that again.

 

I only got as far as this^ statement. You only suggested it once? Didn't look into why she was adverse to leaving the kids alone? Could it have been their ages at that time? Did she have underlying fears? I mention that because when my kids were younger and we did leave them for dates or trips I had an unspoken anxiety about a fatal accident that would leave them parentless. And for awhile my husband and I had alternate work schedules as a solution to the daycare dilemma (over crowded or poor daycare choices, costs made if financially difficult, etc). It was very hard on our relationship, though, and I agree it's important to schedule time together for the health of the relationship. I don't know, but it seems like there will be different reactions in a relationship, and if you want your partner to try something they are not naturally inclined to do you have to start with baby steps and not give up so easily.

 

I didn't read further (I will read responses when I have more time) but while I agree relationships are complicated, infidelity is mostly complicated for the ones who chose to engage in it. It is more black and white for the one betrayed.

[superfan]

All I see here is you making excuses rather than taking any personal responsibility. Yes, infidelity is complicated, but that doesn't make it excusable and it seems like that is what you are trying to do. Guess what - you are BOTH at fault for the state of your marriage, but only ONE of you would be at fault if that person went out and cheated. Using a failing marriage to explain infidelity is an attempt to justify an action you KNOW is wrong - NOT a reason.

 

You said yourself you could walk away at any time but chose not to. Key word: CHOSE. You weren't held hostage. It would have been difficult (as it always is once you share your life with someone) but it would be do-able. You chose not to do it, so therefore you are equally as at fault for the state of the marriage.

 

You also said "well it was my wife that went cold first" - another attempt to shift responsibility onto someone else. So what? That's the grade school equivalent of "she hit me first, so it's OK to hit her back". It's a juvenile attempt to push the blame onto someone else.

 

Saying "it's not really anyone's fault it's just how people are" is like saying "well the fates are to blame so we just go with it and can do nothing". Bull. You can ALWAYS DO something. When you make the choice not to, then that is on YOU. Are you and your wife incompatible? Probably. If you choose to stay in the relationship and then cheat because you are miserable in it, that is YOUR fault and nobody else's.

 

And yes, that IS unacceptable behavior.

[pl3asehelp]

Not complicated at all and you're suffering from a case of 'but my situation is different/special', when it's like everyone else's. Work on you issues with your wife or get a divorce. It's no surprise if you get divorced you're going to give some things up and it will be hard.

 

Staying in your sham marriage is just damaging your kids for life.

[Moontiger]

Not complicated at all and you're suffering from a case of 'but my situation is different/special', when it's like everyone else's. Work on you issues with your wife or get a divorce. It's no surprise if you get divorced you're going to give some things up and it will be hard.

 

Staying in your sham marriage is just damaging your kids for life.

 

Agreed. Sorry, but your situation is not unique or weird or special in anyway. I cannot speak for the others but I am 26, young but not young enough to not understand life can be hard. I have been through relationships where the sex has stopped for six months or more at time for various reasons. Instead if just letting it happened I kept communication open with my partner.

 

As a side note you only get out of therapy what you put in. If your wife wasn't putting in any effort then leave. Not that hard.

[lostandhurt]

Are you seriously blaming all this on your wife? Sure she checked out of the marriage but how on earth does that make cheating okay?

 

If you search on here you will see people like you that have had every situation, justification, reason, excuse and on and on why they cheated. I heard much of it myself from my then wife and in the end it was to try and make what they did not such a bad thing so they could keep doing it or feel okay about themselves.

 

From what you wrote it sounds like you should be awarded for not cheating. You made a promise when you got married, you don't get an award for keeping that simple promise.

 

If you are so unhappy and so neglected then why stay? All these years of torture will not end because you a putting your penis in someone other than your wife. It amazes me how cheaters think betraying their family will make things better. Your children will look at you as someone that is not to be trusted, your friends won't trust you around their wives/gf's and you will eventually loose everything for sex.

 

Here is a radical thought. Try counseling and if your wife doesn't want to or try to make the marriage better start divorce proceedings and make a new life where you are free to date and have sex with whomever you want.

 

Many cheaters like the safety of their home life and don't want to loose all their stuff but still want to have sex with other people even if it hurts their families and friends. Like I said SELFISH

 

Good luck on your situation. If you have fallen in love with someone else then you will be cheating on two women in your life...

 

Lost

[journeynow]

We have two children, a house, investments, business interests, common friends, a great history together.

 

gwnguy, can you tell us more about your great history together?

[Huntress0527]

All cheaters think their story is unique or different. Yours is hardly. You don't want to leave your home life because you stand to lose alot in divorce so it's easy to justify cheating by blaming all the issues on the spouse. Truth is you are unhappy at home and you should do what's necessary and end the marriage but that's a hard road so instead decide to take the easy selfish approach and have flings on the side.

 

If you still love your wife tell her work things out and if she's unwilling to then you'll have your answer and you can divorce and move forward and co-parent.

 

Also, age whether old or young has nothing to do with understanding that cheating is wrong. Plain and simple.

[Arra1988]

See what I see here is "me me me and my needs" it seems that you are pointing the finger at your wife for everything going wrong, when infidelity occurs I think yes maybe the person could have been more sensative but I don't ever thing it's their fault cheaters make a choice and its the wrong one.

 

You chose to cheat, and do you want a gold star because you didn't?

 

Whoever said infidelity wasn't complicated is an idiot and every situation is unique but it is all the same in the end lying deceiving and being a coward.

 

If you have tried counselling and she wasn't interested I think it's time to start the divorce proceedings as you two clearly have nothing together other than commitments and then you are free to meet and have sex with whoever you want.

[Blue_Skirt]

“I've been with my wife for 21 years. We have two children, a house, investments, business interests, common friends, a great history together. My family adores her, and I get along well with her siblings and parents. So what could be wrong?”

 

“Divorce would just be another thing we didn't have time for and couldn't afford.”

 

 

If you had a great history together perhaps that could be the starting point to talk to your wife about how you feel and discuss with her what went wrong with the marriage all along the way?

 

Would you lose your house, investments and business interests in case of a divorce?

 

Or is it a story more like this:

You are in your mid 40’s, you are married, you have children together, you have common friends, you have a house and the investments and business interests. Your family adores her and you get along well with her siblings and parents. Looks like a pretty nice picture to me, almost like the perfect family, especially for the outside world.

 

Now the only thing which is missing is sex (which I can understand must not always be easy). Your idea would be getting sex outside the marriage and the issue is fixed. The picture towards the outside world is still perfect.

 

Because if you would go for a divorce, you may lose everything. Losing the kids, the friends, the money, the in laws. You may lose your reputation. People may think you are a bad guy. Could it be that you are just afraid of all of this and be even more afraid to start a new life?

[HeartGoesOn]

Life has a way of drifting, and before you know it, decades have passed. People get busy with work, kids, hobbies, and whatever else. Divorce would just be another thing we didn't have time for and couldn't afford.

 

So, your choice to cheat is justified because you didn't have the time, and couldn't afford a divorce? No matter how you dance around it, cheating is an intentional choice.

[Capricorn3]

Forgive me moontiger, Capricorn3, and agent, but you seem either young and inexperienced,

Sorry to disappoint you, but I've been married a lot longer than you have, so would hardly see myself as "young and inexperienced".

 

All I see in your post is excuses, excuses, excuses and a desperate need to find a way of justifying cheating. It's won't work. All it is, is not taking responsibility for one's actions and taking the easy way out. 12 years is more than enough time seek a divorce, but my guess is it was "too much like hard work to set the ball in motion" - hence you remain in your so-called unhappy marriage. If things are as bad as you claim, I have no doubt you would have left 12 years ago. Your situation is not unique at all. Something is keeping you in your marriage. Only you know what that is.

 

Again, it is YOUR CHOICE.

[petite]

It's almost like you're trying to justify cheating and making your wife a villain when really you're responsible for your own actions.

 

For the last 12 years we have had almost no sex. Before our 2nd child was born we went for about a year without any. It only took a few times to conceive and after that I was done for good.

 

My wife also worked for herself and would schedule herself around my schedule so that we never interacted. A few times I tried to schedule babysitting so we could have time together, but she freaked out at leaving the kids alone. I never tried that again.

 

Basically my wife was content to have me in the background, but never talk to me. I used to love her and for many years I was completely devastated at her lack of interest in me.

 

How do you know she was content with you being in the background if you never discussed these issues? Did you actually try and attempt discussing your problems and even seeking help from a professional?

 

 

Over the years I have gradually withdrawn from her life. I do my best to avoid contact. I don't touch her, I try not to talk to her unnecessarily, I try and be a good roommate by cleaning and cooking, and I never try to rekindle romance because it only makes her mad.

 

As you can imagine, this lack of attention has left a bit of a hole in my life. My work allows me to meet lots of women. I have had a number of flirtatious 'almost' affairs, but I never crossed the line and let it become physical. I guess nowadays people call them emotional affairs.

 

How is it her fault specifically that you withdrew from her life? That's your choice, it wasn't the only option.

 

It makes no sense why you trying to be romantic would make her mad. Were there other issues between you guys and is there a reason why attempting to be romantic would make her mad?

 

My wife never seemed to care who I spent time with, who I emailed or texted, and generally anything else about me as long I came home to care for the kids while she went to work.

 

To be frank most people that trust their spouse don't necessarily care whether they text or email their friends or acquaintances and very often they don't even know what the partner is doing. They trust the spouse. It seems like she trusted you and therefore didn't see a need to interrogate you.

 

The last 2 year's have been different. I started working with a new team with two great women. I'm in my mid 40s. Both girls are younger (I'm the supervisor). Both also married, but to losers. At this point I have to say that I am fairly good looking so I know I have options. Believe me I would never say this out loud because it would sound so conceited. But It's important to admit because of what I'm about to write.

 

How do you know they are losers?

Things got hot with girl number 1 last year. She wanted a short term fling. I went as far as meeting her one night, but I couldn't go through with it. Number 2 and I developed a very close relationship and she kept me from sleeping with number 1. Along the way, we fell in love with each other.

 

I met up with number 2 few months ago and we let our feelings out. We both decided not to take things any further. I recommended her for an internal promotion (she deserved it) and thankfully she got it, and is off my team. She never told me, but I think she must have had counselling and was told not to contact me. I'm almost crying writing this.

 

Girl number 1 is still around and we are still close friends. I think she still has strong feelings for me, but I've managed stuff mine back inside.

 

Had you kept it professional, maybe things wouldn't have gotten 'hot' with neither women.

Now back to my wife. She has suddenly become insanely jealous. I was texting number 1 the other day something completely innocuous and she freaked out. It's as if she realized I didn't care anything about her anymore. She was ok when I was miserable and lonely, but the thought of me being with another woman made her crazy.

 

I Guess my point to all this is that infidelity, at least sometimes, is complicated. I chose not to have sex with those women, and some others, not out of a sense of commitment to my marriage, but all the other baggage in my life such as kids, extended family, finances. Also I hate the thought of being a 'player'.

 

Now, when hear of cheating I don't rush to judgement. An extra beer or two and I could be that guy. And I wouldn't feel all that guilty. I don't want to be celibate the rest of my life, but it isn't important to my wife and I don't want to make her do anything she doesn't want to. I don't find her attractive now anyway.

 

If your significant other cheated on you, then look at your role in things. Some people just can't stop themselves and would cheat no matter what. This is not always the case. My wife created the conditions for me to have an affair. I didn't follow through on it....yet, but I can only live alone for so long before something gives.

 

If you didn't pay any attention to her before (that's what I got from your post anyway, she did her thing you did yours) she wouldn't have magically became jealous unless your attitude towards her changed drastically. In all probability your wife noticed a difference in your attitude. People that cheat might think they are hiding their infidelity well, and some do, but a large number of people actually notice a huge attitude change thus getting jealous and being suspicious.

 

The fact is #1 and #2 weren't the only women you had a fling with (you mention 'other' women)which leads me to believe that the issue is not necessarily these women hitting on you or something spontaneously happening, it's you seeking something. Please clarify if I am wrong.

 

I think it speaks volumes that you say you're not attracted to your wife. She ends u losing no matter what she doesn't because the truth is you want someone else, but you also want the comforts of a family and not being painted the bad guy. You can't have it both ways.

Why haven't you ended this unhappy marriage since you don't find your wife attractive, aren't happy, and have lived under the same roof unhappily for 12 years?

 

You had 12 years to work on the issues with your wife. Doesn't matter how you try and spin it what you did with other women is wrong. If you were so unhappy you could have handled things differently, and actually tied to work on your marital problems.

 

Unfortunately your wife didn't create the conditions for you to cheat, you decided to do that. And the issues in your marriage were both hers and your fault. But you're responsible for your own actions.

 

If I became a total cow towards my husband, there could be so many underlying issues there, that I'd hope he'd try and help me figure out what the hell is going on with me instead of isolating and then cheating. Marriage is a partnership, you're supposed to share the good and the bad with your spouse and trust them with everything. If one notices something very different from the norm in their wife's or husband's attitude they need to speak up, and try and work as a team not only to help one another but to be there and work on their problems together as one unit.

[gwnguy]

Thanks for all the replies, but I think my point was missed. And please don't turn this into a personal attack on my character just because I disagree the view that there is no excuse for infidelity. I am glad you are all happy with your relationship and are completely satisfied with your SOs. There is no need to be self righteous about it.

 

I was disturbed by the tone on this forum that seems to excuse the behaviour of the person who was cheated on. Based on my experience, both my own and some people I know, married people can be very lonely in their relationship. When presented with an 'option', affairs can happen. It is not easy to get out of a marriage, especially a long term one, so people can be overpowered by long repressed feelings. It almost happened to me, which is why I try not to be judgemental and why I posted here.

 

I decided having an affair wasn't for me for a lot of reasons. I don't feel sorry for myself because my marriage is flat, and compared to most people I have a pretty good life. There is a void though, and I've made my choice not to fill it, at least for the time being.

 

When someone comes on this forum to say they were cheated on, I don't see the problem in asking what role they had in it. Was it a husband who neglected his pretty wife for years, and she finally caved in to one of the many attractive men at work who were hitting on her?

 

Maybe it was the other way around. Wife goes cold, and it isn't a problem for her. Hubby finally gives in to the advances from female coworker.

 

Infidelity isn't right, but in my opinion, it is explainable and predictable.

[meczam]

This thread was started by a person who has the typical cheating mentality.

 

"Cheating is wrong but not in my case and here's why".

 

It's not necessarily the cheating that's wrong, it's the deception.

 

You want to be with someone else, you feel your reasons are valid, then go have fun.

 

But tell your spouse FIRST.

 

Either get the ok, or get the divorce going.

 

Otherwise you're just a lying coward trying to justify your actions.

[gwnguy]

The thread was started by me, and you avoided discussing the point I tried to make. I'll be more direct. In your opinion, does the person who was cheated on, bear any responsibility for their partner having an affair because of their behaviour?