infidelity is complicated

[avman]

The thread was started by me, and you avoided discussing the point I tried to make. I'll be more direct. In your opinion, does the person who was cheated on, bear any responsibility for their partner having an affair because of their behaviour?

 

No, they don't.

 

They do bear partial responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage, lack of communication, sex, money issues, and so on. But the cheating was a decision you made. You had other options - file for divorce, go to marriage counseling, etc. But you chose to be deceptive and cheat. You own that 100%

[SudoMB]

Thank you for starting this thread gwnguy.

 

As you can tell by the responses, morally it is very straight forward to those who are responding. The reality is never so clear cut.

 

Ultimately we are each responsible for our own actions, and I see clearly the point that you make. You can tell by some of the responses here people did not really take the time to read your original post.

 

I do understand the situation you outlined, and personally, I would never put up with it. Regardless of the familial strings attached, I believe in the pursuit of happiness for oneself. And sometimes you have to wade through all of the crap to obtain what you are really after.

 

Good luck in your situation!

[meczam]

The thread was started by me, and you avoided discussing the point I tried to make. I'll be more direct. In your opinion, does the person who was cheated on, bear any responsibility for their partner having an affair because of their behaviour?

 

Yes I think that in many cases their inability to properly accept and address the problems in the relationship led to their partner taking the easy, cheap, cowardly and deceptive route of cheating, whether it was an emotional affair as in your case, or a physical affair which includes full blown sex.

 

The problem here is that you seem to think that your actions are partially validated because of your partner's actions.

 

There's no validation or justification for cheating.

 

NONE.

 

You want out, go get a divorce.

 

Don't be a coward.

 

Then you can go and tell everyone you know or post on an anonymous internet board how you left your wife because she couldn't deal with the problems in your relationship.

[HeatherB]

Set aside an evening alone with your wife, print your original post from this thread, and read it to her. Yes, she will kill you. But the shock could do your marriage good...in a couple months, once you're out of the ICU.

 

 

(All violence referenced in this message is to be understood as purely metaphorical.)

[itsallgrand]

How is that complicated?! Infidelity isn't complicated at all. And I'm not only talking about morally. It's as straight forward as it gets.

 

Life requires decisiveness and a bit of guts. Some people aren't up to it. That's not complicated.

[Mariana345]

I don't think that infidelity is complicated. If people doesn't have any more options, then I will say that ok, it can not be avoided. But the truth is that they DO have options. The option to fix things, the option to talk things, the option of opting out instead of just cheating.

 

"Is not that easy, we have family, history, a life together", well, you didn't care about those things while being unfaithful, did you? Infidelity is a matter of choice. People choose to be unfaithful and that is all.

 

"It was a mistake, a one time thing, I was weak then" No, cheatings is a choice, not a mistake. You can control yourself but you decided NOT TO. To be unfaithful you must lie, you must hide things, you have to plan, and TAKE ACTION. The same action that you could take to fix things with your partner OR leave before you are involved with someone else.

 

"But I feel in love, I couldn't help it" That is not true. Love is not a feeling, love is action. I think that people can notice the difference between infatuation, atraction, or the feelings of new exciting things AND LOVE. If you feel that you are in love with someone else then you should leave you actual partner BEFORE you start something new, but NOOOO, people are afraid to make mistakes "what if the new one is not for me? What if is not what I think it could be? No, no, I'm just going to cheat and figure it out in the way". For me that says, "I don't love either of you to make any kind of effort" And that is all, Don't try to belittle your actions with excuses.

 

Is not that complicated, is just that people who cheat don't want to be the "bad guys/girls" and some excuse to keep doing it if they feel like it. People just want the easiest way, the most comfortable for them, the INSTANT GRATIFICATION, instead to work for happiness.

[Moontiger]

AGain, OP, when you break it down all you are saying is, "Life is hard, but I'm pretty comfortable, so instead of giving up that comfort I'm going to stay in a marriage where there is a high likelihood that I will dishonor and disrespect my wife, mother of my children."

 

Interesting that you didn't respond to any of the points we have made here.

 

As for a "pretty wife being neglected by her husband" that is not an unusual situation and I have seen many threads here where the woman comes seeking to be told what she did was OK. The response they get are exactly like that ones you get here.

 

Cheating. Is. Never. OK. There is NO excuse, NO reason, NO justification.

 

I have seen threads where a woman is being abused so she runs into the arms of another man. Guess what this site has told her?

[Huntress0527]

My advice still applies.

 

You wanted the easy way out instead of going through a divorce because you stand to lose everything. Yes, your wife does bear some responsibility for the demise of the relationship but you either go to counseling or end the marriage not go out and cheat.

 

Again, you wanted the easy way out.

[superfan]

The thread was started by me, and you avoided discussing the point I tried to make. I'll be more direct. In your opinion, does the person who was cheated on, bear any responsibility for their partner having an affair because of their behaviour?

 

No, the person who was cheated on does NOT bear ANY responsibility for the decision to cheat. That is yours and yours alone if you choose to do it. That is like two kids saying "well she hit me first so I hit her back". It is THAT simple. It's the oldest cliche in the book - two wrongs do not make a right - or an excuse.

 

And I say that as someone who HAS cheated on a partner.

 

When I was 17 I cheated on my boyfriend of 6 months while on vacation. I returned home after the vacation and broke up with him. I never told him about it. I figured if I we were going to break up anyway, then there was no reason to hurt him further. And that was probably partly selfish on my part as well, but those are my mistakes 100%. He did NOTHING wrong.

 

I could make a thousand "excuses" as to WHY I did it. I was young and wanted to break up with him but didn't know how. I had already checked out of the relationship, etc. etc. etc.

 

But that is ALL they are - excuses. The fact is I did something morally wrong and IN excusable. I have felt awful about it ever since.

 

Your wife may bear responsibility for the break down of the marriage, but YOU and only YOU bear the responsibility if you cheat and there is never any excuse. Period.

[lostandhurt]

I have the solution.

 

Since your situation is so complicated offer your wife an open marriage. She can have sex with whomever she chooses and you do the same but stay married with all the creature comforts you both enjoy.

 

Then there is no deceit or lying. It is the prefect solution.

 

Divorce is the answer to your problems, not having sex with women other than your wife. Sticking your junk in someone else never fixed a bad marriage.

 

Be brave so your kids can keep looking up to you as an honest man.

 

Lost

[gwnguy]

I see your point. I think I'm going start treating my wife like s*** so she gets frustrated and has a fling with some guy. That way the final break up will be her fault.

[Not a rookie]

I see your point. I think I'm going start treating my wife like s*** so she gets frustrated and has a fling with some guy. That way the final break up will be her fault.

 

Hummmm....

 

I was stuck in a similar situation so I divorced my husband. I could have stayed married and could have cheated. Had many offers. I however did not cheat on my ex-husband although I felt really heartbroken and lonely. And yes I was very horny as well. I believe it's called self control.

[Anderson Silva]

So is murder but that doesn't make it alright.

[Moontiger]

I see your point. I think I'm going start treating my wife like s*** so she gets frustrated and has a fling with some guy. That way the final break up will be her fault.

 

Selfish. And also self destructive. She will talk to all your friends about what a jerk your being. However you slice it, it will be your fault. Just grow a pair, put on your big boy pants and divorce her.

[Huntress0527]

I see your point. I think I'm going start treating my wife like s*** so she gets frustrated and has a fling with some guy. That way the final break up will be her fault.

 

Still playing the victim card. Take responsibility for your own actions and move forward with separation/divorce.

[gwnguy]

Huntress0527,

 

You missed the point, as have most of the posters on this particular topic (infidelity). I am not a victim, and as an adult I am accountable for my actions.

 

I would let this go, but I have seen the advice you and others are giving to other members and I think it's wrong. I gave my personal story as an example of how easy it can be to give in to inappropriate feelings. It turns out that I didn't give in, but it has made me far less judgemental of those that do.

 

When someone posts that their SO cheated on them, people rush to say that they did nothing wrong and it was all the other person's fault. It may be true, but I don't think it is unreasonable to ask what part they may have played. My original point on another thread was that infidelity is usually a symptom of bigger relationship problems. That view was thoroughly denounced, but I don't think it solves anybody's problems.

 

By us not calling the 'victims' out on their own behaviour, how is anybody ever going to learn anything. This is not to make excuses for the cheater, but unless they come onto this forum there isn't much point in berating them. We already know the 'victim' is going agree.

 

I know your not going agree, but we are all human beings who make mistakes because of short term thinking.

 

Some have made the comparison to abuse and blaming the victim. Really!? Is infidelity just like being beat up by an abusive husband? Sorry, I just don't see it.

[Arra1988]

It's not a mistake it's a choice to cheat.

 

I've been on two spectrums of cheating. And I can say when I cheated my partner was not to blame he didn't make me cheat I did that on my own account. But I can't say he didn't play a role in the break down of the relationship. But I cheated on my own.

 

It does take two people to make a relationship work. But only one person decides to take the selfish choice to cheat.

 

On the other hand I was cheated on I see that I didn't make effort but nor did he we were emotionally disconnected and didn't talk. He chose to cheat and deceive me rather than leave.

 

Leave your wife, your trying to justify cheating and it is impossible.

[Huntress0527]

If you read my posts you'd see that I understand that your wife is not completely innocent in all this, yes, I get that she plays a role in the demise of the relationship. The effect that you picked for the cause was incorrect. Counseling and/or divorce should be the option not looking for flings on the side breaking marriage vows. However, you made the choice by emotionally cheating/ flirting/ whatever with your co-workers which to many is defined as cheating. Your attitude almost sounds like entitlement- Well my wife did this so I deserve to have these flings because my wife isn't doing what I need instead of trying to correct the issues in the marriage.

[Not a rookie]

We only interpret the situation as it is presented to us.

We don't know what happened in the background which could have triggered infidelity.

Still does not justify the cheating though.

You wanna have lots of sexual relationships? Then get divorced.

[itsallgrand]

Bc cheating is something in which "all bets are off". Once it is done, there is no "now let's talk about how you contributed or didn't contribute to this relationship".

 

It is like abuse, in a way. Another deal breaker. Another form of obliterating trust, a form of betrayal, and a fundamental display of lack of respect for the person who you said you are meant to love and cherish and watch out for.

 

the 'relationship' is dead at that point. there is nothing to talk about or resuscitate, it is past all that. it's a corpse.

 

To me it's like sticking a knife in someone's back. It's ridiculous to expect that person to then be open to hearing what you have to say. You have become, in sort, an enemy now. At the very least, not someone that person is going to trust nor confide in with intimate feelings or details! Because it can and will be used against them.

 

That is why the time to talk about or do something about things is before it getting to that. That is why there is no excuse for cheating. Same as there is no excuse for beating on someone, or putting them down, just because the relationship isn't going how you want it to.

 

It's the same reason why, even if someone cheats on you, it's still wrong to go and then hurt them.

[lostandhurt]

I can see your point that there can be other problems in the relationship when cheating occurs but it doesn't excuse it in any way shape of form.

 

 

I have been jumped and beaten badly by to guys before and I have been cheated on by my wife of 20 years. I would take the beating in a second with all the blood I passed for 4 days, loose teeth and bruised kidneys over being cheated on. It hurt more than you could imagine.

 

 

Have you ever been cheated on?

 

I am glad you didn't choose to cheat on your wife, many cheat and then try and justify it and wonder how they could have been so stupid and selfish. There is always a way better solution than betrayal.

 

Good luck

Lost

[HeatherB]

Infidelity, as a topic, freaks people out. Everyone has either been scarred by it personally or is afraid of it happening to them. So we tend to have pretty wild reactions to people who seem to show the least bit of sympathy to cheating. It's like we want to stomp that out the way we'd stomp out a match ember that fell on the floor.

 

Two things contribute to infidelity, in my opinion. 1. Mismatched sex drives, 2. Emotional disconnection. Add in boredom with other aspects of your life, and many people could be tempted to cheat, given the opportunity. So fix those issues. If you can't, then at least be clear with each other about what is going on. It's the sneaking around part that makes cheating the gut twisting betrayal we fear most.

[NymphaeaLilly]

Whatever someone says your reply is "You missed the point".

No they didn't miss the point they just don't agree with you. The only people who'll agree with you, or as you'd say "get the point" are other cheaters.

 

"By us not calling the 'victims' out on their own behaviour, how is anybody ever going to learn anything. This is not to make excuses for the cheater. "

All you've been writing here are excuses stop deluding yourself.

 

"I gave my personal story as an example of how easy it can be to give in to inappropriate feelings. It turns out that I didn't give in, but it has made me far less judgemental of those that do."

It made you less judgemental not coz you discovered some great universal truth but coz by defending them you are actually defending yourself. EVERY couple on planet has had a disagreement or hard time so by your logic everyone of us could easily become a cheater. BULL!!! Only selfish people without sense of morality succumb to temptation.

 

 

"Infidelity isn't right, but in my opinion, it is explainable and predictable."

Well if we all think it's wrong then what's the point of this thread? If something is wrong then why would you wanna do it? Most murderers were abused as children so does that make it ok when they kill someone, do you think that their abusive parents are the ones who actually pulled the trigger?

[CatsMeeoow]

This is a very hot topic... mostly because it makes us all vulnerable. We give ultimate trust to our mates that we won't be betrayed... yet it happens... ALOT!

 

I agree that what happens in your marriage is all a matter of the choices WE - YOU - I make but if you look down at the breakdown of an affair most men and women don't start out their marriage hoping or planning on having one. Affairs happen because a need wasn't being met by a partner. Your partner may be the most perfect parent to their children, great provider, etc but if you are craving emotional intimacy and that is the one thing your partner has no intention of giving you look for it elsewhere. YES - at first it may just be developing a close bond to a co-worker. It may have been innocent at first but over time when you start to rely on that one person to feel that need that you most have eventually it will lead to sex outside the marriage.

 

One partner is neglectful for not meeting this crucial need of their spouse. The other partner is neglectful for not communicating their needs and desires to their spouse. Both partners are wrong and both partners are responsible.

 

Just as the OP has a choice to NOT seek sex outside his marriage his partner is making the same choice in NOT seeking help for not meeting the partners needs. She is no less culpable than he is in this matter. They both are making choices.

 

One is not an excuse for the other but I think what the OP is stating he can see logistically in his mind how these things could develop and happen given how things have transpired in his own marriage. No one wakes up one day and says I'm going to screw someone behind my spouse's back. If I didn't have sex with my husband for 12yrs it had better be because I was in a coma or I had better have some serious health issue where it was medically necessary. I know physical needs are vital to what my husband desires in a marriage - just as he knows what I need most in a marriage. The OP has managed to work through these obstacles and made the choice to NOT go outside his marriage but I can see and he can see he was easily tempted given his situation at home and NOT everyone would have made the same choice as him. Affairs happen with extreme frequency... they are bad choices but to equate that they are bad people would be ridiculous.

[Doofus]

Actually, infidelity is not complicated. It's simple. Humans, generally, like to f*** and, generally, they like variety. They also crave the comfort that comes from a relationship with someone they love and trust. We would all be better off if we de-coupled love and sex a bit. Obviously they are connected, but this penchant for demanding absolute loyalty, for defining even small transgressions as infidelity and being cheated on as the worst possible pain one can experience (as many have said on this forum) is like demanding the death penalty for speeding by drivers at the Indianapolis 500.

I'm not saying cheating, or lying, is not wrong. But, as anyone who has been in a long term relationship will attest (if they're honest...) complete utter honesty, especially when it comes to sex, is an unattainable goal. Indeed, sometimes lying is a courtesy.

 

I've both cheated and been cheated on. So have most people. You know what? I got over both. Cheating is wrong. But, we would all be better off if we kept it more in perspective.