Man, I remember when I first came here...

[MattW]

As humans, we constantly go about comparing ourselves to others. Is your self-esteem low enough for you to think that you are comparatively worse than everyone?

 

Or like most people, do you view yourself to be below some and better than others?

 

I don't know. Socially? Romantically? I'd say I'm pretty "bottom of the barrel" in those areas, I guess. I mean, obviously, I don't believe every aspect of my life is worse than everyone else, but those two aspects, yeah, I think I'm pretty far gone on.

[BrianH46]

Sure you want it but clearly not enough if you keep saying that nothing interests you... How can one possibly make judgements about something without even first experiencing it for them self, makes no damn sense to me. Listen if you want people to invest time and effort in you, you need to first put in the time and effort yourself. Sitting at home with your parents day in and day out does not count.

 

Your threads always seem to generate a lot of interest and responses, as for myself I comment because I know the feelings that you experience and I genuinely want you to be able to overcome it. I would even dare say I am not the only one who feels this way, the advice given to you are with the hopes that you overcome your loneliness.

 

However the MattW that I am getting to know through this forum, lacks any sort of determination and does not sound like a fun guy to hang with.

[ExcitedtoSleep]

I would say that your issues exist because there is a discrepancy between your standard and how you value yourself.

 

There is no possible way that you will achieve satisfaction.

 

The standard you have set for yourself is unattainable, yet the value that you have placed upon yourself is unreasonably low.

 

Your world seems to be a fantasy.

 

You only want what you cannot have, so you believe that you are not worthy of anything.

 

Start with a friendship. Find someone that you think is not worthy of you and become their friend. If you are truly better than that person, then there should be no reason why the two of you should not bond.

 

Lower your standard now and you will realize that you were probably mistaken from the start.

[Batya33]

"The point I was making, though, was that it's not really a "risk" for me, it's an inevitability. I ALWAYS end up failing when I try to develop any kind of relationship with people. I question whether there's even a chance for a "reward" for me, at this point. When you fail so much and see zero success, it's difficult to be optimistic at all, yanno?"

 

But you refuse to see that perhaps that's because you don't try enough and/or with suitable people and/or with the right attitude/mindset. And believe me I'm not telling you to think more about it -the opposite - you don't need to think about what the right attitude is - you just need to practice it in real life situations. Again and again.

And it also depends on how you define "failure" -once again I'm not suggesting you analyze that in the least - but it depends what standards you set for yourself and how you expect these relationships to develop.

[MattW]

Sure you want it but clearly not enough if you keep saying that nothing interests you... How can one possibly make judgements about something without even first experiencing it for them self, makes no damn sense to me. Listen if you want people to invest time and effort in you, you need to first put in the time and effort yourself. Sitting at home with your parents day in and day out does not count.

 

Put time and effort into myself how, though? I mean, I've had nothing BUT time to myself my whole life. I'm kinda tired of myself, to be honest.

 

Your threads always seem to generate a lot of interest and responses, as for myself I comment because I know the feelings that you experience and I genuinely want you to be able to overcome it. I would even dare say I am not the only one who feels this way, the advice given to you are with the hopes that you overcome your loneliness.

 

I know, and I do feel bad that I continue to let you guys down. I know how frustrated you guys probably are with me, and believe me, I frustrate myself, too. I just can't do anything, because I don't really know what I want to do, and like I said, I feel so socially inept and disconnected, that I feel like I don't even know how to meet people and make friends, and all of that.

 

However the MattW that I am getting to know through this forum, lacks any sort of determination and does not sound like a fun guy to hang with.

 

I've said this before, and I know you guys don't believe me, but the way I am on here doesn't accurately reflect the way I am in the outside world. I would say I'm pretty good at hiding all these issues to everyone else. I spent my adolescent years being super guarded and not really letting anyone "in", and after working retail for five years, I've more than learned how to put on that "mask" of just being a happy friendly face. When I'm around people I'm familiar with, I'm quite pleasant. I'm far from the life of the party, of course, but I joke around and I like trying to make people laugh. I'm not some super depressed "Debbie Downer" type that you guys probably think I am. The reason I come off that way on here is because while I'm pretending to be a-okay to the outside world, I'm bottling up all these thoughts, feelings, and emotions, and then I pour them out on here because I need to dump them out somewhere.

 

I would say that your issues exist because there is a discrepancy between your standard and how you value yourself.

 

There is no possible way that you will achieve satisfaction.

 

The standard you have set for yourself is unattainable, yet the value that you have placed upon yourself is unreasonably low.

 

Your world seems to be a fantasy.

 

You only want what you cannot have, so you believe that you are not worthy of anything.

 

I don't understand. I don't really see how I'm wanting what I can't have? In general, all I really "want" is a fulfilling social and love life. Is that really so unattainable?

 

Start with a friendship. Find someone that you think is not worthy of you and become their friend. If you are truly better than that person, then there should be no reason why the two of you should not bond.

 

Lower your standard now and you will realize that you were probably mistaken from the start.

 

I dunno, I mean, I don't really think that way. I never actually find myself seeing someone and thinking "I'm better than them" or "They're not worthy of me", or anything like that. If anything, I'm much more likely to think it's the other way around.

[BrianH46]

Again you are not putting time into yourself if the only place you can be found at outside of work is your parent's house. I assure you, you don't come off the way you think you do, otherwise your colleagues would treat you differently. For example at my last job the people I befriended asked for my number, people I befriend anywhere asked for my number or vice versa. You don't have the numbers of any of your acquaintances, the only reason for that is you don't come off as "fun". Even with the girl you "connected" with, you clearly over evaluated the extent of your relationship. Did she not tell you something about being too busy for having a bf and now she is dating someone? My point is that I don't think you quite understand the fact that the situation you are in is caused solely by you.

 

I mean if we were to start talking what common interests would we have to talk about other than work? Would be a dead conversation soon or repetitive since nothing interests you enough to be passionate about, well anything.

[ExcitedtoSleep]

I mean if we were to start talking what common interests would we have to talk about other than work? Would be a dead conversation soon or repetitive since nothing interests you enough to be passionate about, well anything.

 

The conversation would probably turn into this thread.

[MattW]

Like I said, I'm very self-aware, and I know I'm not the super depressing black hole of sadness you guys think I am. Ever since last summer, my coworkers had been giving me a bit of praise for opening up, and most have told me that I seem pretty cool. Heck, there was a period of time (before I asked her out) where, at work, that girl I liked would come seek me out to talk, joke around, and have fun. If I was really that dull and depressing, why would she come to me to hang out?

 

But still, I also understand that I'm not "fun" in an obvious way, and again, I'm far from the "life of the party". But, I don't really know how to be "fun" in that kind of way. I just know how to be me, and I'm a pretty low key, laid back kind of person. I'm good for some goofy little banter, a witty observation here and there, and that's pretty much me. I don't know how to be more "fun" than that.

 

 

 

I don't like talking to people I know about these issues, because I don't want them to think I'm a loser because I have no social life and I don't date. I can get away with it on here, because it's anonymous, and because forums like these are for talking about our issues, but I worry I'd get judged by people out in the real world. There's only been a couple of times where I've come close to confiding in some people, but I'm VERY selective about what I tell them, and I rather than tell them about my issues outright, I use vague implications.

[camus154]

I don't recommend dumping on other people about all your issues. That will just come accross as enormously self-involved, which, respectfully, you already are, right?

 

Everyone's got problems, OP. We're all in this together, trying to figure it out as we go along. You're no exception. So figure out whatever it is that makes you happy inside. Stop asking us how or what that should be. Only you can answer that. Get off the computer, get off the forums, stop spinning your wheels talk-talk-talking about yourself and your problems, and start living life.

[MattW]

I don't recommend dumping on other people about all your issues. That will just come accross as enormously self-involved, which, respectfully, you already are, right?

 

Everyone's got problems, OP. We're all in this together, trying to figure it out as we go along. You're no exception. So figure out whatever it is that makes you happy inside. Stop asking us how or what that should be. Only you can answer that. Get off the computer, get off the forums, stop spinning your wheels talk-talk-talking about yourself and your problems, and start living life.

 

Well, I wasn't dumping anything on anyone. The pregnant girl that had said she'd help me out after she has her kid was kind of giving me some emotional support when I was feeling bad about that girl I liked. And another girl was kinda offering the same thing. At different points, both girls had asked me some somewhat personal stuff, about my dating past, and stuff, and I just kinda answered them. Like I said, I didn't want to say anything outright, but I gave both of them a big enough hint for them to understand I've never dated or had much luck "romantically". In other words, I never went to anyone and said "Let me tell you about my problems", I simply responded to things they asked me.

 

Am I "enormously self-involved"? Eh. It's not like I don't care about anyone else or their problems, but that's just it, I want to be more involved in peoples' lives. Not just so they can be "something" for me, but also so I can be "something" for them. I'm willing to "give" myself to people, but it seems nobody really wants what I'm "selling", so to speak.

[ExcitedtoSleep]

I'm willing to "give" myself to people, but it seems nobody really wants what I'm "selling", so to speak.

 

Impossible.

[MattW]

Impossible.

 

Huh? Which part, the first one or the second one?

[camus154]

Are you pretty self-involved? Yeah, I think so. I don't mean it as an insult, but let's be honest--you're renowned for rehashing the same dilemmas and ignoring the same advice pretty much endlessly here.

 

If you like visiting the forums because it constitutes some form of human interaction or because it kills the time, that's perfectly understandable. All of us regulars could probably relate. But you seem to only interact via your problems--or rather, the one problem you dress in different clothing. That's essentially the only way you communicate with anyone here.

[MattW]

But you seem to only interact via your problems--or rather, the one problem you dress in different clothing. That's essentially the only way you communicate with anyone here.

 

I guess, but I don't really have anything to offer anyone else here. I don't have any "wisdom" or "insight" on anything, and I can't really relate to anyone else's problems because I have no experience of my own in dealing with friendship or dating issues.

[camus154]

I guess, but I don't really have anything to offer anyone else here. I don't have any "wisdom" or "insight" on anything, and I can't really relate to anyone else's problems because I have no experience of my own in dealing with friendship or dating issues.

 

So you really have nothing to offer, but you'll continually come to take. Even when people have given, you'll come back for the same, over and over again.

 

See why I call it enormous self-involvement?

[Capricorn3]

I guess, but I don't really have anything to offer anyone else here..

Have you ever bothered to even TRY? Maybe by trying to add a little input in trying to help OTHERS, it will take away this self-absorbtion you seem to have and turn your life around to other avenues. Even better, have you ever considered doing voluntary work? Doing something for those who have even less than you do? You'd be amazed how that can change your life. Take the focus OFF yourself and onto others. Here on ENA, try reading other people's threads and actually have some input. None of us here are experts in life's woes, but all of us try to help in some way.

[MattW]

So you really have nothing to offer, but you'll continually come to take. Even when people have given, you'll come back for the same, over and over again.

 

See why I call it enormous self-involvement?

 

I'm not "taking" anything from anyone, though, because people can respond to as many threads as they want. It's not like I'm "stealing" space or replies from people that could otherwise go to others in need.

 

I don't know. I just wish I could make myself better, and I think I more than resent myself for still not being able to. I'm sitting here hating the way my life is and has been, hating the fact that I'll still be in this rut for (most likely) years to come, wasting my life away, and I hate myself for not fixing it. This is all I know how to do, this is all I know how to be. I'm "broken", I've been "broken" for years, now, and I just can't "fix" myself.

[Capricorn3]

I don't know. I just wish I could make myself better, and I think I more than resent myself for still not being able to. I'm sitting here hating the way my life is and has been, hating the fact that I'll still be in this rut for (most likely) years to come, wasting my life away, and I hate myself for not fixing it. This is all I know how to do, this is all I know how to be. I'm "broken", I've been "broken" for years, now, and I just can't "fix" myself.

Again, ALL of this sounds like excuses, excuses, excuses. You really do seem to choose the easy way out. Getting REAL help is too much effort for you. It's so much easier to sit at home on the computer and write all about how you are stuck in a rut and wasting your life. Well then, DO something constructive about it. WHEN will you seriously seek professional counselling and actually stick to it for as long as it takes? What's your excuse as to why you won't look to therapy or why you believe it "won't work"?

[ExcitedtoSleep]

MattW is not in therapy?

 

If so, he truly does not want to help himself.

[MattW]

What's your excuse as to why you won't look to therapy or why you believe it "won't work"?

 

I just don't really see what it could do for me. I already know what's wrong with me, I don't think talking to a professional would make much a difference. And I think when you're skeptical of therapy, it won't work. You kinda have to believe in it for it to really help you, yanno?

 

I dunno, I... Like I said, I'm "broken", and I just don't think I believe I can fix myself. Deep down, I know you guys are mostly right about stuff, but I just can't do anything.

 

I'm starting to wonder if it'd be for the best if I go away from here for good. I don't want to leave, because at least I get to talk to people here, but let's face it, nothing works with me, and it's only a matter of time before you guys get completely sick of me. Nothing can be done for me. I was looking to see how to close your account here, but I couldn't find anything. I'll take another look tomorrow, or something, though.

[abitbroken]

I haven't read every response, but from reading the first page and skimming, I think you are not meeting women because you fixate too strongly on one at a time and if she rejects you - you are too devastated to function. While you were obsessed with the woman from childhood, you had tunnel vision and probably missed out on many other women. It seems that you practically already decide they are the love of your life before going out with them.

 

You need to relax and meet women with no expectations on whether you will like them or not. Practice having casual conversations with women around you. Go out with groups of friends male/female mixed, etc, and maybe even go for coffee once in awhile with a woman even if you don't think she is your greatest love. Pretty soon you will be comfortable enough when the right one comes along, or you will be busy doing your thing and won't be obsessing so you can actually meet someone and not think the world stops because they are one of various people you meet and you give things a chance to click naturally instead of putting all your stock in it.

 

You are not broken you are just missing out by making one woman someone you obsess over or want only and if you dont' get her - either she rejects you or she DOE NOT reject you but you don't pursue because she is taken - you crumble and crawl under a rock versus just asking the next girl out.

 

Nothing is as unattractive as someone who feels sorry for themselves.

 

I was a virgin at your age too. I was busy adn just hadn't had a serious boyfriend by then. So what.

[Capricorn3]

I just don't really see what it could do for me. I already know what's wrong with me, I don't think talking to a professional would make much a difference.

 

I dunno, I... Like I said, I'm "broken", and I just don't think I believe I can fix myself. Deep down, I know you guys are mostly right about stuff, but I just can't do anything.

Dare I say, very very weak and feeble excuse? As for "I just can't do anything"...... When we were little kids and started whining about something, saying, "but I can't do it! I can't!", my grandmother always used to say to us, ..."Can't means don't want to". She was right and I never forgot it. I believe in your particular case, this seems to be true too. You just don't want to make the change. You don't want to make an effort. It's sad that you don't even want to TRY!! It's too much effort for you. It's easier to sit behind the computer and make "woe is me" threads, right? I think if you REALLY wanted to change and make a better life for yourself, you would make every effort to find a way. At this point in time, it seems you really don't want it bad enough.

 

That said, I'll step out of this thread and future threads. I give up. I hope others have better luck getting through. I wish you well.

[MattW]

Eh, I dunno, I don't think I'm "bad" with girls. Heck, if anything, I'd say I'm better interacting with girls than I am with other guys. I just never really "hit it off" with them in a "romantic" sort of way. I also don't think I become immediately "obsessed" with a girl I like; that first girl was more of an oddity. With the second, more recent girl, I didn't really become weird until after she had turned me down; I liked the way things progressed with that second girl, and ideally, that's how I'd like a budding romance to develop for myself. We just found ourselves having time together, and we started getting to know each other, and the more we got to know each other, the more I realized I liked her and wanted to ask her out. Heck, we technically knew each other for almost a year before we ever even really started talking to each other. I took it really hard when she turned me down because she was pretty much my exact "ideal girl". If you had asked me to list all the characteristics of my ideal girl even before I'd met her, it would've looked exactly like her. That's why I had such a tough time with it, because how often do you meet someone that's everything you want in a person? That's a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and it happened for me, but it didn't work out, and now it's just gone.

 

I'm not trying to "feel sorry for myself", I'm just incredibly lonely. I have no friends, I can't date, I have no one. It's lonely, and it hurts really badly. At this point, I feel like I'm just waiting to be put out of my misery.

 

 

 

Consciously, I DO want to change, and be better, and have a better life. It's my subconscious that's resisting everything and keeping me stuck, and I don't know why. That's the problem. I'm trapped within my own head. All I know how to do is "think" and "analyze", and I can see what I want, I can visualize it, I can feel pain and sadness for not having it, but subconsciously, I won't allow myself to get to it. My head is all screwed up, and it's one big unsolvable riddle. That's why I consider myself "broken" and "unfixable".

 

 

 

I understand. I expect everyone else will follow suit, if they haven't already. Like I said, there's nothing that can be done for me. This is how I am, and this is how I'll live out the rest of my days. There's no "fixing", there's no help for me, and I inevitably push away anyone that tries to help me. Nothing works. I'm sorry I've wasted everyone's time for so long. I'll stick around a little longer to see if anyone else wants to chime in, but within the next week or so, I'll make a conscious effort to leave ENA and never come back to waste anyone else's time.

 

Granted, I'll still be spending all my free time slumming around on the Internet and doing nothing, but this will just be one less place I can come to, I guess. Anyway, I'll miss ENA. There's lots of good people here, and I hate that I ended up being such a disappointment to all of them. Regardless of how I always came off, this site was a nice little "home" for me, a place I always felt like I could come when I was feeling sad or lonely, or whatever. I don't know what's next for me. Hell, for all I know, I'll succumb to the loneliness in a few years and put myself out of my misery. I dunno. Not like there's anything else out there for me.

[Raize]

Hi Matt,

 

I see a lot of myself in you and your loveless predicament, although as with myself the predicament extends somewhat beyond the 'loveless-ness', doesn't it?

 

If you look at my own thread postings over say the last 3-and-a-half years, you will see similar patterns. I too had been posting about the same old issues (in my case limerance for someone), getting all kinds of great advice, and still posting about the same problems days, weeks, months and before I knew it, years (yes years) later. In recent months, for the most part, I've almost completely stopped posting about my self-imposed predicament. Not cold turkey, but far far less than usual. I told myself, what is the point in whinging to the Teacher that I still haven't finished my assignment if I'm not even attempting my homework/studies, so to speak?

 

Look at it like this: Advice is like a pill. They can work wonders but if you don't take it, if you don't even so much as pop that pill out of the blister pack because you are worried it will most likely be hard to swallow then it is of no worth. Of course it will be hard to swallow, some pills won't even work and you have to try another kind and another til you find the one that seems like it might be the instant cure or more likely just setting you on a steady dosage of advice to eventual recovery, or at least functionality.

 

You shouldn't necessarily abandon coming to ENA completely, but maybe a self-imposed break/hiatus is just what you need (eg come back a couple of times a month instead of per week). Maybe posting here gives your mind the false sense of security that you are making progress for yourself when it is just the feeling of relief from venting that creates a temporary false sense of emotional security, for lack of better explanation. I know as good as anyone it is a good feeling to let your feelings off your chest especially in such a supportive environment as this, but maybe you need to channel your feelings in a way where you could help others somehow, either online or in real life. Find a way you can contribute in some way, whether it is through your own creativity or through charity (monetary/assistance volunteering). It sounds self-centered but feeling like you are making some kind of contribution, be it of a practical, emotional or artistic kind truly can boost one's confidence within, and this may reflect positively on your real-life interactions with people, (ie women).

[Batya33]

"Consciously, I DO want to change, and be better, and have a better life. It's my subconscious that's resisting everything and keeping me stuck, and I don't know why. That's the problem. I'm trapped within my own head. All I know how to do is "think" and "analyze", and I can see what I want, I can visualize it, I can feel pain and sadness for not having it, but subconsciously, I won't allow myself to get to it. My head is all screwed up, and it's one big unsolvable riddle. That's why I consider myself "broken" and "unfixable"."

 

I respectfully disagree because your actions are inconsistent with wanting to change. Or perhaps you "want" it but are not willing to take the actions to implement the desire.