Man, I remember when I first came here...

[MattW]

I remember back in 2008 when I came onto this forum, and was looking for advice to pursue a girl I knew when we were kids, and the whole situation was so stupid and crazy, but I was so head over heels for her. When things didn't happen, I took it super hard, and it took me, like, a year to stop thinking about her, before I "shut down" and began believing it was impossible for me to find a girl. She was the first girl I ever had strong feelings for (the first of two; the second being the more recent girl from last year that some of you may remember my posts about). It's funny, because at the time, I never thought I'd ever stop having "feelings" on some level for that first girl. But somewhere along the lines, I did.

 

A little while ago, I was bored, and decided to look her up on Facebook. Not for any specific reason. Turns out, she's engaged. It hit me kinda hard. Not in the way you'd think; I'm proud to say, I didn't feel upset about her being "off the market", or anything like that, and honestly, any feelings I had for her are long gone. What hit me hard is that I'm now at the age where people are settling down, getting engaged, getting married, etc. And here I am, still never even having been on a date.

 

Ever since I developed strong feelings for that second girl last year, it's opened up the "floodgates" of all the dating/ relationship/ "love" stuff I had buried deep down inside me, and I've just been "drowning" in these thoughts. I've realized that all my peers right now are either in long term relationships, engaged, or married. Only a handful are not currently seeing someone, but they have had at least one "special someone" in their lives. Even this second girl I was crazy about is apparently dating someone, now, and I feel bad thinking about how easy it was for her to find someone after dealing with me liking her, yet I'm still sitting here sad, lonely, and dateless, with no romantic prospects in the near future.

 

I'm not trying to "compare myself to others" and it's not that I only want it because they have it, but I just feel so bad to think that it's so much more of a challenge for me to find someone than it apparently is for everyone else. Never having dated at all at the age of 24 is super lonely. It makes me feel like there's no girls out there I connect with, and even if there are, they won't want me in that way. Everyone around me is able to successfully have "love lives", people my age are already getting married, and yet I still can't even find one girl I want to date who also wants to date me.

 

I don't know. I just wish it wasn't apparently so much harder for me for some reason, than it is for everyone else. I'm tired of being alone, I'm tired of having no "intimacy" with anyone, and I just feel so... I dunno. I don't even know what I feel anymore.

[meoww]

I read through your post and I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. Are you a virgin? If you are 24 and have never been intimate, emotionally or physically, with a woman, I think something is very wrong. This is just my opinion and hopefully you'll give me a chance to explain, as well as give you some suggestions about what you can do about this. I don't think you should be ashamed or down on yourself about it at all so I hope that you don't waste any time beating yourself up about the things you can't change, and start making changes for a more fulfilling future. I really feel for you, but you have to do something about this. People need love and affection to survive.

 

More than that, it's often our romantic relationships that teach us how to grow up or become better people. You haven't gotten a chance to develop in this way.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the way you look, fundamentally, or anything unfixable flaw you have, but I am just really concerned for you. Anyone can be loved or at least be in a relationship.

 

You don't have to have strong feelings to go on a date with someone. You don't have to love anyone you don't want to love, but you should give more people a chance. It really takes time to see the different facets of someone's personality.

 

Being intimate with someone requires you to forgive their flaws to a certain extent. People always make mistakes or fail to live up to your expectations and you have to be okay with that.

 

Try to spend time with girls who know how to have fun even if they disappoint you sometimes and you are not necessarily in love with them. Don't waste time with people who are not only flawed, but also kind of boring or toxic and don't bring positive things to your life.

 

I also wonder if you were abused as a child or even sexually abused.

 

You have to have the courage to face the truth and make some real changes in your life. There is nothing wrong with making some changes to become more like the person you want to be or are in your head. If you believe in yourself and present yourself well, other people will start to believe in you too.

 

You should just sign up for okcupid at the very least. You might have to send out a 100 messages just to get two dates but that's better than nothing. Make sure you post good photos that don't look like selfies you took of yourself and include one with friends so they don't think you are a loner. Good luck getting the ball rolling.

 

Start talking to people anywhere, both men and women.

 

Ask your friends to set you up with someone.

 

There are lots of ways you can start to open up to people. Get a therapist who will give you feedback and not just sit there like a dead fish.

[MattW]

I read through your post and I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. Are you a virgin?

 

Correct.

 

You don't have to have strong feelings to go on a date with someone. You don't have to love anyone you don't want to love, but you should give more people a chance. It really takes time to see the different facets of someone's personality.

 

Well, I'm not expecting to fall for anyone head over heels. That first girl five years ago was a bit of an anomaly the way I fell for her (looking back, I don't think our personalities would've been very compatible anyway; I was more "in love" with the idea of her, than her, herself). With this more recent girl last year, things kinda happened the way I'd ideally like them to with a girl; we found ourselves with lots of chances to get to know each other, we hit it off really well, and as I got to see how compatible we were, I fell pretty hard for her. I asked her out, and she turned me down, though.

 

That's really all I'm looking for, to be honest, that "compatibility". I don't have some kind of ridiculous "checklist", or anything like that, and I've met a decent amount of girls over the last eight or so years, but I just never feel that kind of compatibility with any of them, except the rare occasion. I'm okay at making friends with girls, I'd say, but there's just never any compatibility more than that, with any of them.

 

I also wonder if you were abused as a child or even sexually abused.

 

No, not at all.

 

You should just sign up for okcupid at the very least. You might have to send out a 100 messages just to get two dates but that's better than nothing.

 

I've tried online dating (usually mainly OKCupid, interestingly enough) a handful of times, but nothing ever comes of it. I've sent out plenty of messages throughout my visits to OKC (and other sites), but I never get any responses. I've had a handful of girls write to me, but after we message back and forth a couple of times, they stop writing. Honestly, I don't really dig the idea of online dating, to begin with. I've given it a few attempts because I have nothing else to work with, but I dunno, I'd just rather meet and get to know someone face-to-face.

 

Ask your friends to set you up with someone.

 

Don't really have any friends. Kinda became super guarded after high school. Over the last 6-8 months, I've been trying to reach out and befriend some acquaintances I have around in my life, and I've gotten to spend a couple of outings with them, but that's it. I've been reaching out to them for so long, and have been met with so much indifference that I've just started getting tired of trying to reach out to them anymore. For a while, they really liked me when I started opening up more to them, and now they've kinda stopped caring.

 

One girl I know did say, a while back, that she'd help me get out more and meet girls, and whatnot, but she's pregnant, and she said I'd kinda have to wait until she has her baby, so she can actually start going and doing stuff again. She's not due until May, so at the earliest, she probably wouldn't be helping me out until late summer. If she even remembers, that is. Was kind of a while ago now, we haven't talked about it since, and considering she's still a few months off, and with more important things to worry about, I don't even know if that will end up happening.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

People need love and affection to survive.

 

That's a bit melodramatic. You need food and water to survive. Plenty of people survive quite well as loners. You don't need a partner sort of love and affection to survive. You can survive quite well with friends, family, pets, co-workers, kind strangers etc.

 

If you are 24 and have never been intimate, emotionally or physically, with a woman, I think something is very wrong.

Also a bit melodramatic. Everyone has their own life and own pace and sometimes things just don't work out the way a person had hoped they would due to circumstances.

[MattW]

Well, I dunno, I mean there must be something "wrong". People don't typically go this long being alone the way I am. Maybe my situation isn't completely unique to me, but it's pretty unusual, regardless. I can't imagine it's all just coincidence.

[LoveSoDeep]

Well, I dunno, I mean there must be something "wrong". People don't typically go this long being alone the way I am. Maybe my situation isn't completely unique to me, but it's pretty unusual, regardless. I can't imagine it's all just coincidence.

 

Matt buddy...we go through this a lot with you. The one thing that is wrong here is that you refuse to really try things. You say you've tried online dating....you tired it your way and when that didn't turn out EXACTLY as you wanted it to you gave up.

 

You know how people meet their soul mate? They go on dates and just get out and do things...they meet a lot of people some they like some they don't and some that just touch their heart and soul.....sometimes that person who touches you soul is the last person you expect.....it might be another guy who will end up being your very best friend...and you need that in your life too. It's never perfect and it's not always even a lot of fun but you HAVE to get out there and TRY.

 

Also 24 is just the beginning of young people coupling up....you have plenty of time don;t feel rushed. I felt that way at 24 and you know what at 30 most of my friends who had married young envied me....you're not that far behind but you do need to get out there and just give people a chance.

[meoww]

That's a bit melodramatic. You need food and water to survive. Plenty of people survive quite well as loners. You don't need a partner sort of love and affection to survive. You can survive quite well with friends, family, pets, co-workers, kind strangers etc.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't say we are in disagreement on this. I'm not the best writer (lol) but what I meant to express was that I was really getting a feeling the OP was lonely in general, and maybe lacking the very platonic and familial relationships you mentioned. I gathered this partly because people often have an opportunity to meet potential partners through family and friends, and yet he hadn't mentioned that, for example. It was just an assumption I made without confirming with the OP, but it turns out I wasn't that far off the mark.

 

Further, I chose to write my response the way I did because I felt like MattW was really unhappy. Sometimes it helps to be really direct with a chronically unhappy person and let them know what is at stake, exactly what they are losing from life. I wanted to convey that if he is as unhappy as he says he is, then all he has to do is trust his instincts about that and start making some real changes.

 

I also realize that loners aren't by definition unhappy, but in this particular post he seemed to be truly unhappy.

 

I think almost anybody could be happy in almost any situation, no matter how difficult, but to me it is more important to help the individual realize what is best for them.

 

Which is what I think we are both saying...

 

Also a bit melodramatic. Everyone has their own life and own pace and sometimes things just don't work out the way a person had hoped they would due to circumstances.

 

This is where we might straight up disagree with each other. That's true but he's not a child or adolescent, he is a full blown adult. The privilege of being an adult is being able to make your own decisions, and in this case, I'd hope he'd be able to start figuring out what decisions lead to more fulfillment for him.

[meoww]

Hey there MattW, just replying to what you wrote to me.

 

I'd rather meet people in person too. So that's why I suggest you talk to people wherever you can. Even if you're going out with a friend you are not super close with, you might meet someone through them that you really like ( as a friend or otherwise.)

 

There are so many ways to meet new people and unless you have literally exhausted every avenue, I don't think you can or should give up. Friendships are kind of like dating too, because it's hard to be compatible with everyone.

 

It really helps to have optimism, even when things don't seem that great. We tend to self sabotage, even in little ways, when we lose hope.

 

From reading what LoveSoDeep said, it seems like this is an ongoing source of dissatisfaction in your life. So I hope a time will come where you either feel like you've had enough, or start to see the situation in a new light.

 

I have some friends who run into the same issues over and over again and it just really sad and frustrating for me to see. Obviously I have my own issues too, but sometimes I see great friends with lots of opportunities to be happy just stagnate for apparently no reason at all. I wouldn't want you to be like that! So I hope that you can see I'm not trying to be dramatic or over the top.

[wsim]

Hey MattW,

 

If it is any consolation, I am in the same boat as you, expect add a few years (28 years old). I've been on a few dates, nothing beyond that or remotely close to a relationship. It can be tough to cope, but remember there are people out there facing similar issues. I still hold out faith that I can meet a girl someday, but I don't know if that is in the cards or not.

 

Anyways, I don't know what else to add other than trying to meet people throughout singles groups or meetup/activity groups? I've tried online dating and getting friends to introduce me to girls (though there are none that they have), though have come up empty for years.

[Ginger1]

I read through your post and I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. Are you a virgin? If you are 24 and have never been intimate, emotionally or physically, with a woman, I think something is very wrong.

 

 

whoa! harsh!

OP, here is what I have to say. There is nothing wrong with you! I am the same age as you and have never dated anyone, yes obviously still a virgin too. I'm not sure why I have never dated anyone. For a while I was kind of shy/uncomfortable around guys, but I have definitely gotten over that for the most part now-due mainly to my working in the construction industry. And now I am perfectly comfortable having guy and friends and hanging out with them.

But still- never dated anyone. I would go through waves where I would think "w.tf, why are my friends dating people/getting married etc." But for the most part I am a fairly confident person and didn't let it get to me. Which is what people always tell you- be comfortable and happy with yourself and everything else will come. Ok, whatever, I've been doing that for the last 6 years..... and nothing

Until literally 2 weeks ago I have met someone who likes me...borderline crazy about me.

 

I'm still pretty reserved and if this guy hadn't initiated anything towards me I'm not sure I would have taken the lead- I was thinking about it, but I'm a little shy- an definitely not experienced. So the only advice I can give you is if you do meet a girl you like, do something about it- because most girls won't, even if they do like you!

 

As far as trying to meet new people, I never did any of the common things like go to bars and such, so I agree it is kind of hard to meet people. I make friends easily with anyone-but they have never been environments that are suitable for meeting someone to date- it's either been work friends or meeting new girlfriends.

 

Good luck, hang in there, try not to be too hard on yourself. I know you will find someone...or someone will find you!

[camus154]

What do you want us to tell you that we already haven't?

 

What have you done differently from the last time you came here to address this same problem? Because if the answer is "nothing", then I don't see much point in rehashing this over again.

[Braveheart1]

Matt, keep your head up, you're still young. I'm 35 and granted that I was married before. But after it ended, i found myself out there trying to connect with people; not easy when you have been out of the game for a while. But sometimes I get discouraged, sometimes I get hope when I meet someone where I see potential, sometimes I get gurt, sometimes I get disappointed. But all these teach me something about myself and/or even my approach.

 

There is no exact formula to find love. Sometimes love finds you when you least expect it. So take my advice and continue doing what you're doing. All we can do is hope that we find love one day or it finds us. You have to be ok being alone first. No one should be the base of your happiness but someone can add to yours; that's the way I look at it.

 

I sometimes feel as if I can't find the right woman (i'm a simple guy who just wants to get along with a nice lady) but I'm also an old soul. I have accepted if I end up alone and grow old on my own. The only thing I can do is hope that I find that person. I continue to be a good person, I live with integrity and I treat others the way i want to be treated.

 

I will leave you with these thoughts:

 

People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centred. Love them anyway.

 

If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. Do good anyway.

 

If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies. Succeed anyway.

...

The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway.

 

Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable. Be honest and frank anyway.

 

The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds. Think big anyway.

 

People favur underdogs but follow only top dogs. Fight for a few underdogs anyway.

 

What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight. Build anyway.

 

People really need help but may attack you if you do help them. Help people anyway.

 

Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth. Give the world the best you have anyway.

[blueidealist24]

You should look at this forum:

link removed

 

I know you said you're not really that anxious socially, but some people there are going through the same sort of issues (not dating/being somewhat socially isolated, or even totally isolated).

[MattW]

Matt buddy...we go through this a lot with you. The one thing that is wrong here is that you refuse to really try things. You say you've tried online dating....you tired it your way and when that didn't turn out EXACTLY as you wanted it to you gave up.

 

"Exactly how I wanted"? I never had any real expectations for online dating any of the times I gave it a shot. I just went on, made an honest profile, and forced myself to write to as many girls as I could, and never got anything back. It's not so much that I "gave up", but the lack of results made me more and more disinterested; I'd log in once a day, then every other day, then a couple times a week, then a couple times a month, etc. I just sort of fade out from it every time, because I never see any results.

 

You know how people meet their soul mate? They go on dates and just get out and do things...they meet a lot of people some they like some they don't and some that just touch their heart and soul.....sometimes that person who touches you soul is the last person you expect.....it might be another guy who will end up being your very best friend...and you need that in your life too. It's never perfect and it's not always even a lot of fun but you HAVE to get out there and TRY.

 

I'm not arguing that, but I just... I don't really know how to go out and meet people. Everyone in my life now is someone that was forced into my life for some reason or another that I HAD to get to know. Not to sound like I'm placing blame on them, but I never really learned from my family growing up how to "socialize" and "have friends". For as long as I can remember, my mom and dad have never had "friends", they never go out and do things with people, they don't even really go out and do things with each other. Heck, when I was a kid, my mom even kinda planted the idea of being "afraid" of people in my head. So, I've never really learned "social skills" from anyone. It's all foreign to me.

 

It's hard, too, because I don't have many interests that are conducive to meeting people. Like, okay, I like music; I could go to a concert by myself (though I'd feel kinda weird going alone to something like that), but how do you meet anyone there? It's loud, and everyone would be focusing on the performance, so it'd be tough to actually talk to and get to know anyone. Or, I could go to a movie by myself (which, again, seems like a weird idea to me), but again, everyone would be watching the movie, so you can't exactly meet people and chat them up there.

 

I just don't know how to meet people. Nothing ever happens "serendipitously" for me. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, or where I'm supposed to be going to meet people. There really aren't any activities or places I want to go by myself that would lead to me meeting anyone.

 

I have some friends who run into the same issues over and over again and it just really sad and frustrating for me to see. Obviously I have my own issues too, but sometimes I see great friends with lots of opportunities to be happy just stagnate for apparently no reason at all. I wouldn't want you to be like that! So I hope that you can see I'm not trying to be dramatic or over the top.

 

Yeah, unfortunately, I often get stuck in the same cycles over and over, myself. I just can't ever seem to break out of them. I frustrate myself, because I can't ever seem to break out of the cycles I've trapped myself in.

 

whoa! harsh!

OP, here is what I have to say. There is nothing wrong with you! I am the same age as you and have never dated anyone, yes obviously still a virgin too. I'm not sure why I have never dated anyone. For a while I was kind of shy/uncomfortable around guys, but I have definitely gotten over that for the most part now-due mainly to my working in the construction industry. And now I am perfectly comfortable having guy and friends and hanging out with them.

But still- never dated anyone. I would go through waves where I would think "w.tf, why are my friends dating people/getting married etc." But for the most part I am a fairly confident person and didn't let it get to me. Which is what people always tell you- be comfortable and happy with yourself and everything else will come. Ok, whatever, I've been doing that for the last 6 years..... and nothing

Until literally 2 weeks ago I have met someone who likes me...borderline crazy about me.

 

I'm still pretty reserved and if this guy hadn't initiated anything towards me I'm not sure I would have taken the lead- I was thinking about it, but I'm a little shy- an definitely not experienced.

 

Well, don't take this the wrong way, because I know how this sounds, and I'm going to try to say it in the nicest possible way because I mean absolutely no offense to anyone, but I think things are different for guys and girls. Girls are in "higher demand" than guys are, I'd say, so they typically have the luxury of being selective of who they date or even flirt with. Guys aren't as "in demand", so we have to compete, and in the end, we're still at the mercy of any girl we pursue, as to whether or not dating actually happens. I'd bet that nine times out of ten, if a girl expresses interest in a guy, the guy will reciprocate, and "something" will happen (whether it be dating, or just a fling, or whatever). Whereas, that doesn't really work the other way around.

 

So the only advice I can give you is if you do meet a girl you like, do something about it- because most girls won't, even if they do like you!

 

I don't really have a problem with that. If I really want to date a girl, I will ask her out at some point. I just never really get to that point with 99% of the girls I meet. I'm not really "bad" with girls (in fact, I'd say I'm generally more comfortable and relaxed, and more likely to "be myself" around women), but I just never hit it off with them as anything more than friends, and the rare occasion that I do feel some attraction, it's never mutual.

 

You have to be ok being alone first. No one should be the base of your happiness but someone can add to yours; that's the way I look at it.

 

I wouldn't say I'm looking for someone to be the "base" of my happiness, honestly. I'm not a completely unhappy, miserable person, regardless of how I may come accross on these forums. I'm just tired of being alone, I'm tired of missing out on intimacy, affection, and "love", I'm tired of hoping or trying to convince myself that there might still be someone out there for me even though I haven't found one single girl to date in my entire lifetime.

[EssexMan]

It's hard, too, because I don't have many interests that are conducive to meeting people. Like, okay, I like music; I could go to a concert by myself (though I'd feel kinda weird going alone to something like that), but how do you meet anyone there? It's loud, and everyone would be focusing on the performance, so it'd be tough to actually talk to and get to know anyone. Or, I could go to a movie by myself (which, again, seems like a weird idea to me), but again, everyone would be watching the movie, so you can't exactly meet people and chat them up there.

 

We have been through this before, haven't we...if you like music you get involved in the band's fan club. If you like movies you volunteer to work as an usher at the local non-profit arthouse theatre. And so on, and so forth.

 

However. You are clearly an intelligent guy yet it strikes me that you have rather little interest in the exterior world (I seem to recall you once saying that you didn't see any point exploring the city you live in because there wouldn't be anything there to engage you - which if you live in a city rather than an empty field, is really pretty amazing).

 

So, I wonder if you are only wanting "friends" and a "girlfriend" in some abstract way because (a) you are unhappy, (b) everyone else seems to have them, and you are therefore drawing the (possibly false) conclusion © they are what will make you happy.

 

But maybe they aren't? Maybe there's something else, more interior, that will finally provide you with the satisfaction in life you're lacking?

[Slimpee]

Matt, I get the distinct impression that you'd rather feel sorry for yourself..."martyring" yourself if you will...than to change something.

 

Have you gone to a counselor yet?

[MattW]

We have been through this before, haven't we...if you like music you get involved in the band's fan club. If you like movies you volunteer to work as an usher at the local non-profit arthouse theatre. And so on, and so forth.

 

Well, that's part of the problem. I'm not smart enough to figure out "How can I take this activity and turn it into something I can meet people through?". Stuff like that just doesn't occur to me, and I never figure out proactive productive ways to meet people.

 

However. You are clearly an intelligent guy yet it strikes me that you have rather little interest in the exterior world (I seem to recall you once saying that you didn't see any point exploring the city you live in because there wouldn't be anything there to engage you - which if you live in a city rather than an empty field, is really pretty amazing).

 

That was basically me trying to say "I'm a crappy driver that's terrible with directions and would get lost extremely easily unless I know exactly where I'm going". Anyway, I find it intimidating going places by myself, because, well... for a lot of reasons. A) I don't really know where I'm going or what I'm doing. B) I feel uncomfortable surrounded by all complete strangers. C) I have safety concerns (as a small, young looking guy, I have no real means to protect myself, so I'd be easily mugged, assaulted, etc.).

 

So, I wonder if you are only wanting "friends" and a "girlfriend" in some abstract way because (a) you are unhappy, (b) everyone else seems to have them, and you are therefore drawing the (possibly false) conclusion © they are what will make you happy.

 

But maybe they aren't? Maybe there's something else, more interior, that will finally provide you with the satisfaction in life you're lacking?

 

I don't really think that's the case. I mean, I'm "content" with myself and my life as an individual, but that's ALL I have. "Solitude" gets pretty boring and lonely when that's all you have in your life. I don't believe having friends and dating will "make me happy", because I'm not "unhappy" in the traditional sense. I'm not looking for someone or something to fill some "void", I just want to be happy with other people. Does that make sense?

[EssexMan]

Well, that's part of the problem. I'm not smart enough to figure out "How can I take this activity and turn it into something I can meet people through?". Stuff like that just doesn't occur to me, and I never figure out proactive productive ways to meet people.

 

Why do you think that is? I mean, presumably you know that things like fan clubs, hobbyist groups etc. exist.

 

Or is it because...

 

B) I feel uncomfortable surrounded by all complete strangers.

 

...which gets us back to the old problem of "having to know somebody before you are prepared to get to know them".

 

I really think online is perfect for you. If not online dating, other online communities. It will allow you to leap that chasm.

 

C) I have safety concerns (as a small, young looking guy, I have no real means to protect myself, so I'd be easily mugged, assaulted, etc.).

 

I don't know where you live, but is this realistic? Most people don't get mugged or assaulted, especially if they use a little modicum of caution and common sense - however they look. Has something happened to scare you about this in the past?

[MattW]

Why do you think that is? I mean, presumably you know that things like fan clubs, hobbyist groups etc. exist.

 

I don't know, I don't really think about that kind of stuff, and I'm not... I guess "educated" enough to know about stuff like that. Plus, there's not really a whole lot that I "care" about enough to get fanatical about; for instance, I like reading comic books a lot, but I'm not "passionate" enough about them to care about talking to other people about them or going to conventions or anything like that. That's how I am with pretty much all of my hobbies.

 

...which gets us back to the old problem of "having to know somebody before you are prepared to get to know them".

 

Well, that's why my goal was to start with the people I know already, and then meet their friends, and their friends' friends, until I'm deep into a social circle of my own. That seemed like a reasonable goal for me to attain, but it was taking a frustratingly slow amount of time to make progress, and then a month or two ago, it pretty much came to a complete halt.

 

By the way, it's not that I have some kind of internal "stipulation" for myself that I HAVE to know one person to get to know other people, but having someone familiar around makes me more comfortable, more relaxed, and more sociable in general. That's how I want to be around people. But being as introverted as I am, I tend to clam up around new people until I've seen enough to let my guard down a bit. Having someone around that I already know helps keep me open, and loosened up.

 

I don't know where you live, but is this realistic? Most people don't get mugged or assaulted, especially if they use a little modicum of caution and common sense - however they look. Has something happened to scare you about this in the past?

 

I dunno, I mean, I live near Cleveland, Ohio, and we seem to have a pretty bad reputation in general. It doesn't help that, like I said, my mom kinda brought me up instilling the idea of "fearing" people, and that getting robbed, mugged, assaulted, or even killed, were all very real possibilities. I don't really pay attention to the news, but it does seem like bad stuff kinda happens. I know a few years ago, the mailman that has been delivering the mail for as long as I can remember was shot and killed just a little ways down the street I live on. Of course, I was the way I am before that happened, so I don't know that that had any major effect on me.

 

I guess my experiences in high school might have some contribution. For, like, the entire four years, I got targeted by a group of classmates. "Bullying" is one thing, but they were so relentless and so cerebral about everything they did, that I felt like I had the mafia breathing down my neck. If I tried to stand up for myself, I'd always end up looking foolish, and they'd rail on me for that. Ignoring them didn't make them stop. Going to the faculty only made them come at me worse. And nobody else was willing to "have my back", and nobody wanted to be friends with me because they didn't want to become "targets", themselves. It was awful.

 

But, that was years ago, now. I don't really think about them, or high school in general, anymore. I know not everyone is going to be like those people, and I know there are good people out there, but I still generally feel "unwanted" by everyone else, and I also feel like I draw in the bad people more than I do the good ones.

[photograph11]

Know that you are not alone, everyone, gay, straight, young,and old try to find love. Thing is, it is totally out of one's control to find love. You can only increase your odds of meeting someone by going to a bar, online dating, talking to girls you find attractive. Keep doing those things and keep yourself busy, doing things you love, and trust me, you will find love when you least expect it.

[EssexMan]

I like reading comic books a lot, but I'm not "passionate" enough about them to care about talking to other people about them or going to conventions or anything like that

 

Okay. Don't take this as nasty or sarcastic, because it's not meant that way. I've read a fair bit of you over the last few months, and it strikes me you're not actually passionate about anything (except self-analysis, maybe). You're kind of distant from the world. Very little excites you, or at least you won't allow anything to excite you. You're not able to relax and just do something for the sake of enjoying it.

 

Is that fair?

 

I dunno, I mean, I live near Cleveland, Ohio, and we seem to have a pretty bad reputation in general. It doesn't help that, like I said, my mom kinda brought me up instilling the idea of "fearing" people, and that getting robbed, mugged, assaulted, or even killed, were all very real possibilities. I don't really pay attention to the news, but it does seem like bad stuff kinda happens.

 

Yeah, bad stuff happens. It can even happen to people we know. But it doesn't happen to most people. However, I think more important is...

 

I got targeted by a group of classmates. "Bullying" is one thing, but they were so relentless and so cerebral about everything they did, that I felt like I had the mafia breathing down my neck. If I tried to stand up for myself, I'd always end up looking foolish, and they'd rail on me for that. Ignoring them didn't make them stop. Going to the faculty only made them come at me worse. And nobody else was willing to "have my back", and nobody wanted to be friends with me because they didn't want to become "targets", themselves. It was awful. But, that was years ago, now. I don't really think about them, or high school in general, anymore.

 

Matt: I was badly bullied for about one year, maybe one-and-a-half years, in school a little over 30 years ago and it still has a fairly significant psychological effect on me, one which I only recently figured out. Nothing in the particular effect on me has anything to do with your situation, but it does make me think that maybe this is the core of your issues?

 

Even if you don't think about those days consciously, don't you think that might be a pretty strong reason why you are finding it difficult to relate to people, and are even scared of your own environment?

[LoveSoDeep]

Brace yourself I'm about to call BS on all this!

 

Well, that's part of the problem. I'm not smart enough to figure out "How can I take this activity and turn it into something I can meet people through?". Stuff like that just doesn't occur to me, and I never figure out proactive productive ways to meet people.

 

Oh BS! You are smart enough! If nothing else we all know you have brains....you may not use them enough but you've got em!

 

Ok I would bet you money they have meetups in Cleveland....try it!

 

 

That was basically me trying to say "I'm a crappy driver that's terrible with directions and would get lost extremely easily unless I know exactly where I'm going". Anyway, I find it intimidating going places by myself, because, well... for a lot of reasons. A) I don't really know where I'm going or what I'm doing. B) I feel uncomfortable surrounded by all complete strangers. C) I have safety concerns (as a small, young looking guy, I have no real means to protect myself, so I'd be easily mugged, assaulted, etc.).

 

Oh WAH! The only way you're going to get better is driving more! Also I don't care how small you are I'm a 5'1" 130 pound GIRL and I don't let public places scare me away b/c I'm alone. If you're that scared buy some mace for goodness sake! Or better yet take Karate or Judo or some other self defense class....and bonus....you'll meet people there!

 

I don't really think that's the case. I mean, I'm "content" with myself and my life as an individual, but that's ALL I have. "Solitude" gets pretty boring and lonely when that's all you have in your life. I don't believe having friends and dating will "make me happy", because I'm not "unhappy" in the traditional sense. I'm not looking for someone or something to fill some "void", I just want to be happy with other people. Does that make sense?

 

BS that's all I have to say on this one.

 

I don't know, I don't really think about that kind of stuff, and I'm not... I guess "educated" enough to know about stuff like that. Plus, there's not really a whole lot that I "care" about enough to get fanatical about; for instance, I like reading comic books a lot, but I'm not "passionate" enough about them to care about talking to other people about them or going to conventions or anything like that. That's how I am with pretty much all of my hobbies.

 

Here I have to agree with Essex and another poster....you're right you're not actually passionate about anything except maybe over analyzation and martyrdom.

 

Well, that's why my goal was to start with the people I know already, and then meet their friends, and their friends' friends, until I'm deep into a social circle of my own. That seemed like a reasonable goal for me to attain, but it was taking a frustratingly slow amount of time to make progress, and then a month or two ago, it pretty much came to a complete halt.

 

Oh come on you never had enough real friends for this to be a realistic plan....you know that.....you aren't even really trying to succeed....you just want to say you tried. If you wanted to succeed you'd either take our advice or chose a more realistic goal....or both. I'm starting to think all you want is wallow in self pity.

 

By the way, it's not that I have some kind of internal "stipulation" for myself that I HAVE to know one person to get to know other people, but having someone familiar around makes me more comfortable, more relaxed, and more sociable in general. That's how I want to be around people. But being as introverted as I am, I tend to clam up around new people until I've seen enough to let my guard down a bit. Having someone around that I already know helps keep me open, and loosened up.

 

Well duh it makes everyone more comfortable but not everyone gets to live life on a nice fluffy cloud surrounded by rainbows glitter and unicorns! Wait no one does....life is hard and often times it just plain SUCKS....suck it up do things that make you a little uncomfortable....we all do it and you know what it makes us better people....you really should try it.

 

 

I dunno, I mean, I live near Cleveland, Ohio, and we seem to have a pretty bad reputation in general. It doesn't help that, like I said, my mom kinda brought me up instilling the idea of "fearing" people, and that getting robbed, mugged, assaulted, or even killed, were all very real possibilities. I don't really pay attention to the news, but it does seem like bad stuff kinda happens. I know a few years ago, the mailman that has been delivering the mail for as long as I can remember was shot and killed just a little ways down the street I live on. Of course, I was the way I am before that happened, so I don't know that that had any major effect on me.

 

Okay come on it's Ohio not NYC, DC, Chicago or even East St. Louis. Grow up....like I said buy some mace. You'll be fine.

 

I guess my experiences in high school might have some contribution. For, like, the entire four years, I got targeted by a group of classmates. "Bullying" is one thing, but they were so relentless and so cerebral about everything they did, that I felt like I had the mafia breathing down my neck. If I tried to stand up for myself, I'd always end up looking foolish, and they'd rail on me for that. Ignoring them didn't make them stop. Going to the faculty only made them come at me worse. And nobody else was willing to "have my back", and nobody wanted to be friends with me because they didn't want to become "targets", themselves. It was awful.

 

Okay bullying in any form is not okay...but you're allowing yourself to continue to play the victim a full 6 years later! You are the only one who can break that cycle...you don't have to be the victim please stop this wounded, sad charade and go DO SOMETHING anything....volunteer with kids who are bullied so you feel like you're making a difference.....something....anything!

 

But, that was years ago, now. I don't really think about them, or high school in general, anymore. I know not everyone is going to be like those people, and I know there are good people out there, but I still generally feel "unwanted" by everyone else, and I also feel like I draw in the bad people more than I do the good ones.

 

UH BS you do think about them....every time you stay home b/c you're afraid you'll get beat up if you venture to the bad part of town....guess what you're thinking about those stupid bullies. When you do that they still have power over you....you haven;t seen them in years and they still have power over you....you gotta break free of that dude....really maybe punching some boards in karate class will make you feel better.

[MattW]

Okay. Don't take this as nasty or sarcastic, because it's not meant that way. I've read a fair bit of you over the last few months, and it strikes me you're not actually passionate about anything (except self-analysis, maybe). You're kind of distant from the world. Very little excites you, or at least you won't allow anything to excite you. You're not able to relax and just do something for the sake of enjoying it.

 

Is that fair?

 

That sounds about right, I guess. Like I said, there's plenty of stuff I like doing, but there's nothing I'm so "excited" or "fanatical" about that I identify with enough to get out and do things about it. That bit about "not being able to relax and just do something for the sake of enjoying it" was interesting to me, too, because I've noticed that whenever I'm doing something, I'm often thinking about what I could or should be doing instead. For instance, when I'm working on school work, I constantly find myself wishing I was doing something more fun and entertaining, but when I do something more fun and entertaining, I constantly think about how I should be getting my school work done.

 

Matt: I was badly bullied for about one year, maybe one-and-a-half years, in school a little over 30 years ago and it still has a fairly significant psychological effect on me, one which I only recently figured out. Nothing in the particular effect on me has anything to do with your situation, but it does make me think that maybe this is the core of your issues?

 

Even if you don't think about those days consciously, don't you think that might be a pretty strong reason why you are finding it difficult to relate to people, and are even scared of your own environment?

 

Maybe, I dunno. I mean, it's not like I was "fine" and "normal" before high school. I was still fairly reserved and closed off even before that, and if anything, my experiences in high school just gave me a reason to justify that, rather than being the cause of it in the first place.

 

Oh BS! You are smart enough! If nothing else we all know you have brains....you may not use them enough but you've got em!

 

Ok I would bet you money they have meetups in Cleveland....try it!

 

Like said, I'm pretty much socially illiterate. I don't know how to find places to go, and things to do, and ways to meet people, and even if I go out somewhere, in all likelihood, I'd just keep to myself and not befriend anyone unless someone approaches me first.

 

BS that's all I have to say on this one.

 

Again, I'm not wanting people in my life because I think they'll make me happy. If I really weren't "content" with myself as an individual, why would I be so indifferent towards "change" or "bettering myself"? I feel like I'm a pretty okay guy. I enjoy some "solitude", but I don't like having no human interaction whatsoever. I want to experience friendship, I want to experience romance and intimacy, and all of that, not because I have the misconception that those things will "make me happy". I just want them.

 

Oh come on you never had enough real friends for this to be a realistic plan....you know that.....you aren't even really trying to succeed....you just want to say you tried. If you wanted to succeed you'd either take our advice or chose a more realistic goal....or both. I'm starting to think all you want is wallow in self pity.

 

I don't see how it was "unrealistic". I mean, I had a decent amount of acquaintances that seemed to like me and I already had some base familiarity with, so it seemed to make sense. Get to know them better, meet their friends, get to know their friends better, meet their friends' friends, and so on. That seemed like a logical, doable progression for me, and I was making progress for a little while, but it all went out the window and I'm back to square one.

 

Okay bullying in any form is not okay...but you're allowing yourself to continue to play the victim a full 6 years later! You are the only one who can break that cycle...you don't have to be the victim please stop this wounded, sad charade and go DO SOMETHING anything....volunteer with kids who are bullied so you feel like you're making a difference.....something....anything!

 

UH BS you do think about them....every time you stay home b/c you're afraid you'll get beat up if you venture to the bad part of town....guess what you're thinking about those stupid bullies. When you do that they still have power over you....you haven;t seen them in years and they still have power over you....you gotta break free of that dude....really maybe punching some boards in karate class will make you feel better.

 

It's not all about the people that terrorized me, though. I think what gets to me more is that out of the 300-ish people in my class (not to mention, people from other classes), not one of them cared enough or thought I was worth befriending and "having my back" when times were tough. Those that didn't join in on making a fool out of me just kept their distance. If anything, I think that's had a deeper effect on me than the actual bullying. That's like the ultimate rejection; 300+ people in the entire school, and not one thinks I'm worth anything, friendship or otherwise.

 

Huh. I never really thought about that until I just wrote it out now. Maybe that's part of the reason I have so much trouble meeting people, having friends, or anything else, because deep down, I just expect that no one will care, and no one will want me, anyway. I dunno...

[Slimpee]

I asked in the previous page if you have gone to see a therapist. Have you?

 

Seeing as you still rationalize/explain everything away/explain how there's no point in doing whatever was suggested, i dont know if youre "ready" for counseling but I think it would be a great idea.

[LoveSoDeep]

Huh. I never really thought about that until I just wrote it out now. Maybe that's part of the reason I have so much trouble meeting people, having friends, or anything else, because deep down, I just expect that no one will care, and no one will want me, anyway. I dunno...

 

Ah! So you basically expect people to fail you in freindship.....well when you expect people to fail they have a way of proving you right....it's a horrible cycle.

 

I'm sorry no one stood up for you or had your back all those years ago but that was then and this is now....these are totally different people. You have to just put yourself out there. Join a club or a sport....I live in the midwest and we have dodgeball and kickball leagues they are loads of fun and you don't have to be athletic to play them...or for more solitary people we have running and biking clubs....you're meeting up with people but doing your own thing.....trust me you really need to give it try. If music or film is more your speed we have a meet-up for indie film fans where we watch indie and foreign films then go out for drinks afterwards to talk about them. We also have an Independent Film Club where people who like to make films meet up it's loads of fun and they have activities all year long....I did a quick google serach and found a indie film club and an indie film meet-up both in Cleveland....no excuses just GO! Honestly film and theater people are the most weird.... and the most accepting group of people I have ever met I think for sure you could find some friends in a group like this.

 

You have to go out there and just be yourself no matter how goofy, or weird you think that may seem and TRUST that one of those many people will smile at something you say or laugh at your joke.....and then keep going until you have built up trust in the group enough to have made some great friends. It's not easy. But it's obvious that the people you already know have fallen into your self fullining prophecy and are failing you....so forget about them it's time to change that mindset expect that not everyone will fail and find some new targets.....yes some of them will fail too you can't please every one but if you go in expecting even just 10% not to fail you might be happily surprised.