I still don't get it.

[MattW]

Don't friendships have boundaries and assumed intentions? It's awkward having a friend "suddenly" become attracted to you after a few years or months because the boundaries and intentions you have must be reassessed. If a guy/girl makes their intentions known early on you can act accordingly either shoot them down (then become friends or not) or allow a relationship to progress.

 

Well, speaking for myself, I'm not sure I ever get close enough to anyone to put myself in THAT situation. For the most part, I'm pretty reserved and emotionally closed off around new people; I tend to sit back and just kind of "observe" and "assess" them until I decide whether I like and trust them. Heck, with this last girl I liked, we knew each other for about a year before we even really started talking and getting to know each other. Before that, we just shared some light chitchat and the occasional joke, then over the last summer, we actually started talking more and, in my opinion, we hit it off really well. I started opening up more to her, and after 2-3 months, I knew I liked her enough to want to date her. I never really felt like we had gotten "too close" as friends for that to be an issue.

[blueidealist24]

I'd agree - since you weren't spending time with each other outside of work, I don't think it was a boundary issue. It wasn't like you'd done everything together for three years and then you suddenly decided to get romantic.

[BrianH46]

You were hitting it off in a friend status sort of way, you started out as acquaintances and slowly built up a friendship. You admitted yourself that you took a while to develop feelings, you established boundaries and intentions without even realizing it. The "connection" that you felt with her was nothing more than friendship at best, I can assure you and you mistook that as her being interested. You get so little social interactions that you misconstrued her friendship for being more. If I was wrong this girl would not have acted in this way.

 

You get attached so quickly is because you yearn for relationships be they friendship or intimate. What you need to understand is if you go the conservative route you will only build up a friendship and nothing more intimate. Should you develop feelings afterwards... well tough luck, most likely you will not succeed and only end up destroying the friendship you already have.

 

Your adversity to flirting sounds very similar to myself in my early years of high school so I know from personal experience that It can be overcome however again your biggest problem is this. You lack any drive whatsoever. From the fact that you keep bouncing around majors, the lack of resolve unless something "interests you", the fact that your parents got this job for you (which you probably were not interested in), and even the way you type and carry yourself. Although I understand some of this can be attributed to your upbringing and personality the majority of the blame lies with you.

 

Fortune favors the bold and what you put into life you will get back out. What proactive things have you been doing in your life other then going about your life in only the most routine sense?

[jonny15]

Why would you be so offended?

 

I don't understand the betrayed feeling.

 

You should know that anything can happen.

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, I don't understand the "betrayed" feeling either and I'm a woman. I would only feel betrayed if the guy completely stopped talking to me after I didn't respond to his advances. Then I'd know we weren't really friends.

[jonny15]

Yeah, I don't understand the "betrayed" feeling either and I'm a woman. I would only feel betrayed if the guy completely stopped talking to me after I didn't respond to his advances. Then I'd know we weren't really friends.

 

I guess she just asmuses they can read her mind and know exactly when she isn't into them anymore or ever was at all.

[MattW]

Well, I don't know what I'm supposed to do in a situation like this. With this girl, I was just kinda going with what felt "right". Like I said, it wasn't some method or angle I was working to get with her, we just started hitting it off, and I started feeling something. What was I supposed to do? I understand that she wasn't "into" me, I just feel like I don't know how to get girls to become "into" me. Even if she ended up not reciprocating, this was probably the best I've ever done with a girl, and I still couldn't get her to develop any kind of interest on her end.

 

I just don't understand what I'm doing "wrong"; when I like a girl, I try to get to know her, I try to figure out what's important to her, I try to find common interests with her, I joke with her and playfully tease her, I try to develop "banter", but none of that is ever "good enough". I just don't get it. I don't get why I'm not "attractive", why girls don't want to be with me. I "try" with people, I really do, and I've been "trying" harder than ever lately, and it just hurts to feel so unwanted and "unlovable". I'm getting to a point where my spirit is nearly broken.

 

 

 

I don't choose to not have a "direction" in life, though. I WANT to have a direction, I want to do "something". I've just really been struggling to find my "niche" in life. I don't know if I've posted anything about it all here on ENA, but I've recently decided to start investing some money into pursuing a little "project" for myself. It's starting out as a hobby, for fun, but if I work super hard, commit to it, and be consistent, I could potentially start a little business for myself. In fact, there's a particular company I'd really love to work for, located all the way in Texas, and if I work hard enough, I just might be able to get noticed by them, and potentially get to work with them. Granted, this "project" actually becoming anything more than a hobby is probably a long shot, but I'm very excited about it, and I'm having fun planning it out and working out all the little kinks I need to work out before I can get it to start going. I think I'm finally starting to get an idea of what I want to do with myself, professionally. It's not going to happen overnight, of course, but I'm trying to take it by the short term.

 

So, that gives me something to think about and work towards, career-wise, but it still doesn't really help me out with people at all.

[MattW]

God, I had such a horrible thought this morning... Pretty much all my coworkers (which, at the moment, are the closest people I have to a "social circle") are with someone. The three younger guys I know are all dating someone, the four older guys I know are all married, the three girls that are about my age have boyfriends, the girl I liked these last few months has just started seeing someone, heck, even the creepy weird girl that no one likes is getting married.

 

The only "single" person is the older dopey manager guy that has no life outside of his retail management job. That made me realize, that that means I'm about as "attractive" as him... THEN I remembered that he used to be married (and has kids). So, even though his marriage didn't work out, he at least was able to find someone once in his life that loved him enough to marry him and have a family with him. That means that I'm even less "attractive" and "dateable" than him. That's about one of the most depressing realizations I've had in a long time...

[BrianH46]

You should try not to be so judgmental of others... those description can be applied to you as well, can they not? Your bleak realization should be motivation enough for you to try a new method in meeting people, right?

[MattW]

You should try not to be so judgmental of others... those description can be applied to you as well, can they not? Your bleak realization should be motivation enough for you to try a new method in meeting people, right?

 

I didn't mean it in a mean-spirited way, if anything I was just paraphrasing what everyone else says. I try to stay away from making judgments like that, myself, I just feel kinda bad that, for whatever reason, I'm less "dateable" than people that the rest of my peers have such low opinions of.

 

It's a horrible realization, for sure, but I still don't feel like I know what to do to change it. I've been told, even by girls, that I have a good, likable personality, when I let it out, but even when I let my personality shine, apparently that's still not "dateable". I don't get it. I just don't seem capable of turning "likable" into "dateable". For whatever reason, I don't seem to possess that ability. Hence the idea of me being "unlovable".

[Batya33]

"For whatever reason, I don't seem to possess that ability"

 

Some people do have more natural social skills than other people. If you don't it's not about "possessing" it's about cutting out as much of the passive language you indulge in to make excuses and working on your social skills. If you need outside help including professional help then get it. My husband actually gave me some of the best social skills advice I ever received- on New Year's eve in the mid 1990s. It's interesting -my almost 4 year old has to practice really hard skills every day -sometimes several a day so I can relate, vicariously to how hard that is. And in my mid-40s I am learning to drive -imagine how hard that is. My point is that continuing to make excuses as if what you're wanting is something you either have or you don't makes no sense. It does give you the excuse to sit back and complain but that doesn't sound like much fun.

[MattW]

I guess. Like I said, I just feel so lost and out of touch with, well... everything. The world, people, dating, all of it. I almost feel like I need someone to observe and analyze me, then sit down with me, and say "Do this, this, this, and this", in order for me to actually set myself straight and get into better habits. I can't just hear "Get out more", "Go do things", "Meet people", I need specifics, and I really wish I had a friend, or something, to help me get out more and see the world and mingle with people, at least just until I start to find my footing, socially, enough to feel comfortable doing all of that on my own.

[BrianH46]

I didn't mean it in a mean-spirited way, if anything I was just paraphrasing what everyone else says. I try to stay away from making judgments like that, myself, I just feel kinda bad that, for whatever reason, I'm less "dateable" than people that the rest of my peers have such low opinions of.

 

It's a horrible realization, for sure, but I still don't feel like I know what to do to change it. I've been told, even by girls, that I have a good, likable personality, when I let it out, but even when I let my personality shine, apparently that's still not "dateable". I don't get it. I just don't seem capable of turning "likable" into "dateable". For whatever reason, I don't seem to possess that ability. Hence the idea of me being "unlovable".

 

 

Maybe you should start taking advices of guys that were in your shoes and disregard any advice to keep doing whatever it is that you are doing, hasn't worked for some years and won't start working all of a sudden. You don't want to hear "you have an amazing personality" you want them to be interested in you (be it in a friendship or relationship) after all actions speak much louder then empty coddling "compliments".

 

I am going to assume that your are both sane and logical, you must realize your method is ineffective and a waste of time at best. I don't care if it does not make sense to you nor if it interests you or not, if you want F you need to go through A-B-C-D-E.

 

If F for you is larger social circle or a girl friend well let me tell you of some possible steps.

A. Acknowledge your issues (Low self esteem, too closed off)

B. Read up on how some people overcame your issue (Many articles/blog on google)

C. Make a plan and set short term and long term goals (Make contact with every random stranger you see and smile, do so until it comes naturally)

D. Implement plan and keep a log

E. Keep going until you have reached your goals or reassess and make a new goal

F. Become more socially adept/confident --> make friends

[bananashampoo]

Maybe you shouldn't compare yourself so much to other guys. I myself do not like a man who is 'overly sexual', they come off creepy to me and I will tell them to screw off if I feel like they are objectifying me.

 

I like the previous posters plan for you, be proactive and work on yourself. I just don't think it has much to do with what other ppl do, it has to do with you

[Batya33]

I guess. Like I said, I just feel so lost and out of touch with, well... everything. The world, people, dating, all of it. I almost feel like I need someone to observe and analyze me, then sit down with me, and say "Do this, this, this, and this", in order for me to actually set myself straight and get into better habits. I can't just hear "Get out more", "Go do things", "Meet people", I need specifics, and I really wish I had a friend, or something, to help me get out more and see the world and mingle with people, at least just until I start to find my footing, socially, enough to feel comfortable doing all of that on my own.

 

I think you've been given lots of specific advice here(I understand of course that in person is different_.

[Ms Darcy]

Your adversity to flirting sounds very similar to myself in my early years of high school so I know from personal experience that It can be overcome however again your biggest problem is this. You lack any drive whatsoever. From the fact that you keep bouncing around majors, the lack of resolve unless something "interests you", the fact that your parents got this job for you (which you probably were not interested in), and even the way you type and carry yourself. Although I understand some of this can be attributed to your upbringing and personality the majority of the blame lies with you.

 

You do seem to lack drive. That is very unattractive in a guy. And that lack of drive might be what keeps you chubby as well ... another potential turn-off.

 

Like it or not, you have to stop even considering co-workers as potential dates. It is just not kosher.

[jenny_mcs]

I think you should re-read all of Brian’s posts- they are really good. The other thing you have to do is to accept that if you are going to make some changes in your life, you are going to feel quite a bit of discomfort. People have been (in all of your many threads on this topic) been giving you very specific advice. You seem to meet each suggestion with “well, you see, the reason that won’t work…”

 

Any big change (and yes, you need a big change in your life -you need a couple of friends who like and value your company. You need a new job. You need a different approach to dating) any big change, no matter what the area, is going to be accompanied by some discomfort. If you were someone who was obese and wanted to run a marathon, you would assume that came with some discomfort. It’s the same with making changes to your social life.

Living at home, going to a commuter college for degree(s) you’re not interested in, having no social life at school, working the same retail job with the same people for years, sitting at home every night on the computer has resulted in you being very lonely. Safe, maybe, but very isolated and lonely.

 

Until you are willing to admit that 1) your current lifestyle is not conducive to friends or dating and 2) that you are willing to make changes and bear some discomfort to make those changes happen, there is no point to anyone giving you any advice. You simply do not seem ready to take any of it.

[MattW]

And that lack of drive might be what keeps you chubby as well ... another potential turn-off.

 

Eh, I still disagree that that's much of an issue for me. I may be a little chubby, but you can't really tell unless I stripped down (which I never do in front of people anyway), and I'm still way smaller than pretty much every other guy I know. So, it's not exactly like I'm some pudgy little fat kid, yanno?

 

I think you should re-read all of Brian’s posts- they are really good. The other thing you have to do is to accept that if you are going to make some changes in your life, you are going to feel quite a bit of discomfort. People have been (in all of your many threads on this topic) been giving you very specific advice. You seem to meet each suggestion with “well, you see, the reason that won’t work…”

 

Any big change (and yes, you need a big change in your life -you need a couple of friends who like and value your company. You need a new job. You need a different approach to dating) any big change, no matter what the area, is going to be accompanied by some discomfort. If you were someone who was obese and wanted to run a marathon, you would assume that came with some discomfort. It’s the same with making changes to your social life.

Living at home, going to a commuter college for degree(s) you’re not interested in, having no social life at school, working the same retail job with the same people for years, sitting at home every night on the computer has resulted in you being very lonely. Safe, maybe, but very isolated and lonely.

 

Until you are willing to admit that 1) your current lifestyle is not conducive to friends or dating and 2) that you are willing to make changes and bear some discomfort to make those changes happen, there is no point to anyone giving you any advice. You simply do not seem ready to take any of it.

 

Well, some of those changes are kind of far off, though. For instance, I don't believe I can find a better job until I finish school, and I still have potentially another year before I finish the first part of my education. On top of that, without a better, higher-paying job, I don't really have the means to get a place to live of my own. Unfortunately, I can't just be done with school whenever I want, and until then, there's really not much I can do about getting a new job or getting a place to live.

 

As far as making friends and socializing, well, I just can't seem to do it. When I'm thrown into a group of complete strangers, my introverted nature kicks in, and I keep to myself. I don't have it in me to go up to random people, introduce myself, and see if we hit it off. Rather, I'll just keep to myself unless someone indicates that they want to get to know me. For example, if I were to go to a bar by myself, I would just end up sitting alone, having my drinks until I got bored and decided to leave.

 

That's why I wanted to start off by hanging out more with people from work, because none of us take work that seriously. We're all just young 20-somethings working a cruddy part time job that we don't like until we can get out to do something better. When we work together, it gives us mandatory time together to get to know each other and build up rapport with each other. So when we hang out outside work, there's no initial "weird" or "awkward" phase, because we already know each other. I've said before, my plan for having a more active social life was to start off by befriending my coworkers, with the hopes of meeting their friends, and their friends' friends, etc. to get myself involved in their social circles. The deeper in I'd get, the more people I'd meet, the more friends I'd make, and the more potential I'd have to do different things with different people. That seemed like an easy enough "start" for me. But, when I try to be proactive to get together with people, it never ends up panning out; if I say "Hey, let's go do this on that day", people either ignore the offer, or I'm met with answers that amount to "Maybe/ We'll see". The only time I get to hang out with people is if they invite me first.

 

That's kind of a problem I've noticed... A vast majority of people already have friends, and often times, if you already have a social circle, you're not likely to be interested in meeting new people to add to it. Why should you be? You already have all the friends you need, it's not your problem if someone else doesn't have friends. So, I'm sort of placed in a bad position by default, because I didn't have a social life built up in my earlier years. Now everyone else already has their friends and their social circles, and I can't fit in because nobody really cares enough to bring in another person into their social circle. So, I'm basically just a person you hang out with on rare occasions when you have absolutely nothing else to do.

[Cope and Hope]

Still moping around and dejecting any advice given to you just to go in a useless roundabout thought process I see.

[Angler]

 

Well, some of those changes are kind of far off, though. For instance, I don't believe I can find a better job until I finish school, and I still have potentially another year before I finish the first part of my education. On top of that, without a better, higher-paying job, I don't really have the means to get a place to live of my own. Unfortunately, I can't just be done with school whenever I want, and until then, there's really not much I can do about getting a new job or getting a place to live.

 

I don't think you want it bad enough, to be honest.

 

I moved out of my parents to go to school house when I was 18, and I never went back.

 

If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to get it. Being poor and broke and learning to scrape by on your own is an important life lesson, IMO.

 

Now everyone else already has their friends and their social circles, and I can't fit in because nobody really cares enough to bring in another person into their social circle. So, I'm basically just a person you hang out with on rare occasions when you have absolutely nothing else to do.

 

Are you the kind of person you would want to hang out with?

[penelope13]

Being passive won't get you far in a reasonable amount of time. I understand how difficult it can be to make new friends the older one gets and the more social circles are already established (I moved countries many times). The responsibility to make friends lies solely with you: you have to be very persistent in initiating contact and initiating events. Even if you are turned down multiple times - you need to continue doing it. One day people will notice you for who you are and become more interested to get to know you (assuming you have shared those parts with them).

 

Don't wait till someone invites you. As you said, the older people are the less they 'need' knew friends. But people are usually open to get to know different people if that person makes him/herself attractive (personality/socially I meant) one way or another.

 

If you want to socialize first with your work mates - organize a social for the team. Try to turn it into a regular event. That will get you noticed. Don't just suggest it, but make it happen, i.e. put it into action (after hours beer hour; pot luck lunch; bring cookies for a meeting .... - there are many options to improve the social atmosphere at work). Is it work? - Certainly, but it will be well worth it.

 

Above all - have patience!

[MattW]

I don't think you want it bad enough, to be honest.

 

I moved out of my parents to go to school house when I was 18, and I never went back.

 

If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to get it. Being poor and broke and learning to scrape by on your own is an important life lesson, IMO.

 

I'm just trying to be smart about it, yanno? I'm kinda scraping by as it is with the bills and debts I have now (including giving financial assistance to my parents), so that lesson hasn't been lost on me. I just don't want to put myself in unnecessary debt, or run into any other similar troubles. If I couldn't sustain living on my own, I'd probably have to move back in with my parents, anyway. So why not just wait it out until I know for sure I can get out on my own?

 

Are you the kind of person you would want to hang out with?

 

Sure, I guess. I mean, I've always felt like I'd prefer to date a girl with certain similar personality characteristics as myself, and the same could be applied to friends, as well; ideally, it'd be nice to surround myself with people I feel I can relate to and feel equal to. Granted, I rarely find that kind of compatibility with people, so I'm less concerned about the kind of people I would be friends with.

 

Being passive won't get you far in a reasonable amount of time. I understand how difficult it can be to make new friends the older one gets and the more social circles are already established (I moved countries many times). The responsibility to make friends lies solely with you: you have to be very persistent in initiating contact and initiating events. Even if you are turned down multiple times - you need to continue doing it. One day people will notice you for who you are and become more interested to get to know you (assuming you have shared those parts with them).

 

Don't wait till someone invites you. As you said, the older people are the less they 'need' knew friends. But people are usually open to get to know different people if that person makes him/herself attractive (personality/socially I meant) one way or another.

 

If you want to socialize first with your work mates - organize a social for the team. Try to turn it into a regular event. That will get you noticed. Don't just suggest it, but make it happen, i.e. put it into action (after hours beer hour; pot luck lunch; bring cookies for a meeting .... - there are many options to improve the social atmosphere at work). Is it work? - Certainly, but it will be well worth it.

 

Above all - have patience!

 

Like I said, though, I do try to be proactive with them, I've been trying to come up with stuff to do with people, and it's always met with indifference. I've tried to get people together to go see movies, I've tried to get people to go to bars, I've said stuff like "Hey, I saw this restaurant/ bar/ (whatever) the other day, we should go see what it's like", etc., and I'm always met with indifference. I've been doing this kind of thing for about 5-6 months, now, and I've only gotten to hang out with people twice over that time, once when they invited me to a bar, and another when it was my birthday and I got some of them together to come out with me. And that's it. Every other time, it's just indifference. I understand things take time, but I feel frustrated having put in 5-6 months of effort and having made very little progress with people.

[camus154]

How fun of a person are you to be around, OP?

[penelope13]

5-6months is actually nothing. That's why I said you need PATIENCE.

 

Also: having a particular purpose for a social event makes people more likely to join (as your birthday) or as I said a work-social event. You are then the initiator, but not the purpose - but it puts you in a positive position.

[Batya33]

I wrote above that you've been given lots of specific advice. I strongly suggest you read Penelope's specific advice again. And again. Among the best you've received.