I still don't get it.

[Slimpee]

link removed is a good article relating what you're talking about

[jonny15]

The guys who tease women or say sexual things are generally good looking.

 

We all have a tendency in some way or another, to let people we find attractive act in ways we might not find as acceptable for people we don't find attractive.

 

I could never do those things. I would be scared she would get mad and have somebody beat me up or claim sexual harrasement/assault.

[Slimpee]

The guys who tease women or say sexual things are generally good looking.

 

We all have a tendency in some way or another, to let people we find attractive act in ways we might not find as acceptable for people we don't find attractive.

 

I could never do those things. I would be scared she would get mad and have somebody beat me up or claim sexual harrasement/assault.

 

A. Attractiveness is very subjective. A man one woman finds breathtaking may get no more than a "meh" from another woman. And you never know how a woman feels about you before talking to her.

 

B. There are honestly few people who are just...ugly. Much of the time, some gym time and flattering clothes/hair can do wonders. Case in point: image removed

image removed

image removed

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If you're still getting the same haircut from when you were in middle school, and your best "night out" outfit are jeans with only one hole and your finest Beavis and Butthead tshirt, you're not doing yourselves any favors.

 

One the best things you can do to improve your style is get some nice darkwash Levis ($40 at Levis), a solid color slim fit button down if you're a slender guy ($20-$50 from Pennys, Kohls, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, etc.), and some classic brown or black oxfords (approx. $100). Next, looks at pics of celebrities w/ a similar face shape and take one to a stylist. I'd venture away from Sports Clips/Cost Cutters/Whatever is in the mall and go to an actual salon. They aren't super expensive and sometimes, the stylist will give you a free touch up, allowing you to go longer between cuts. I got my hair cut today and it was $32 w/ tip. Not a huge difference than the $20 from a cheap place and it's a better cut. Voila, you'll be more attractive.

 

Also, subscribe to GQ, Esquire, or Details. Subscriptions are cheap and you'll get tons of fashion ideas.

 

/soapbox discussion of easy ways to get more attractive.

[Mike414]

Just remember it's ok to look stupid, get rejected, seem like an a-hole if it gets you just one girl you are attracted to. Certainly better then sitting and watching them date guys you know you are more capable then. Stop letting your self get in the way. Think like an animal (at a socially acceptable level and within the confines of the law).

[Wonderstruck]

Yet, if/ when I actually ask a girl out or otherwise communicate to her how I really feel, things get "weird" and she becomes uncomfortable around me, and in the most extreme cases, I get pegged as some kind of "sexual harasser".

 

Whoa...can you elaborate on this?

 

Were you actually accused of sexual harassment at your workplace?

 

If so, there has to be more to the story here that you're not telling us - there's no way that you're not doing ANYTHING creepy or inappropriate and are just accused of "sexual harassment" out of nowhere.

 

I mean, I guess I could see it happening if the girl was a complete nutjob or something, but you said that the girl that you liked at your work was very mature, intelligent and down-to-earth, so...?

 

I just don't understand how guys can get away with being so "sexual" towards women, and that's perfectly acceptable, yet I try to be nicer and way less overt when pursuing a girl, yet I end up coming off as the "creepy weirdo".

 

Are you just ASSUMING that you come accross as a "creepy weirdo", because the girl you liked didn't reciprocate your feelings, or do you have a legitimate reason for believing that you come accross as a "creepy weirdo"?

 

Were you CALLED this by somebody at your work? Were you TOLD by others that you can seem "creepy" or "weird"?

 

If so, there really does have to be more to this story that you're not telling us. Being a shy, reserved, nice guy who doesn't overtly flirt or say anything sexual does NOT get you labeled a "creepy weirdo".

 

Something else is going on here. Unless this is all in your head and you're just ASSUMING that this is what everyone thinks about you.

[Blue Spiral]

If so, there has to be more to the story here that you're not telling us - there's no way that you're not doing ANYTHING creepy or inappropriate and are just accused of "sexual harassment" out of nowhere.

 

Of course there is--false accusations (whether they're mistakes or malicious) happen all the time.

[jonny15]

B. There are honestly few people who are just...ugly. Much of the time, some gym time and flattering clothes/hair can do wonders.

 

I'm pretty sure i'm one of those people.

 

I have never had anyone ever incinuate that I was remotely attractive.

 

One the best things you can do to improve your style is get some nice darkwash Levis ($40 at Levis), a solid color slim fit button down if you're a slender guy ($20-$50 from Pennys, Kohls, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, etc.), and some classic brown or black oxfords (approx. $100). Next, looks at pics of celebrities w/ a similar face shape and take one to a stylist. I'd venture away from Sports Clips/Cost Cutters/Whatever is in the mall and go to an actual salon. They aren't super expensive and sometimes, the stylist will give you a free touch up, allowing you to go longer between cuts. I got my hair cut today and it was $32 w/ tip. Not a huge difference than the $20 from a cheap place and it's a better cut. Voila, you'll be more attractive.

 

40 dollars is alot for a pair of jeans. Too much IMO.

 

And those "oxford's" look like bowling shoes.

 

I don't wear dress shoes at all unless it's for a funeral.

 

And the last time I went to an actual salon, I got an f'n buttcut from the guy doing my hair. I looked rediculous.

 

I prefer to spend the 14 dollars I do at a local "salon".

[jonny15]

Of course there is--false accusations (whether they're mistakes or malicious) happen all the time.

 

Yep.

 

She could have been offended that someone she thought was unnatractive was hitting on her, and it hurt her self esteem because she felt that he should know not to do that with someone like her.

[FYI]

When a person genuinely likes and is attracted to you they shouldn't care about your style of fashion, your hair, your makeup or whether you can sweet talk them to death. Those things become irrevelant when you genuinely like someone because you like the person for who they are and not who they can become.

 

At the same time I think it's great that others here are encouraging you to perhaps a change in pace. If you can afford to buy the forty dollar jeans, frequent visits to the barber and if you feel like picking you up one of those books on conversational tips then have it. But do these things because it's what you want to do and not because you're trying to impress some woman. That's not going to get you anywhere.

 

Now some guys are really good at picking up on women. They know the game. They know how the game is played and they know language of attraction. I could be that guy if I really wanted to, but deep on the inside it's really not who I am and it's very hard to keep up that persona. Women, young women in particular, eat that stuff up. But as you become older that stuff becomes typical PUA (pick up artist) jibba-jabba. Most older women are beyond that at this point and looking for someone who can do much more than just talk a good game.

 

I think I was where you were when I was 24 and trying to meet women. I was successful largely in part due to the fact that I was myself, I was honest but I had a way about me that was different than others. And no, I ain't six foot four, two-hundred pounds and I certainly don't look like Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. But I knew how to reach women on the inside where it mattered most. I did that genuinely by getting to know them and taking an interest in things that were important to them. And I never once misused anyone after gaining their trust by flipping the script of the story. If I was a friend, then I was friend. If I was romantically interested, then I pursued cautiously - but in a passionate and gentle capacity which made my intentions clear and direct. And if it wasn't meant to be and it didn't workout, I was gracious, I said thank you and then I went on with my life. Where it matters most is how you can reach a person on the inside. Attraction matters, intimacy matters. Good looks, they do matter. But what matters most is how you reach a person.

[MattW]

Okay, well, for the last 2-3 months, I had been feeling very conflicted about this girl. On one hand, I was okay with not dating her but I really wanted to be friends with her even beyond work, because we connected so well, but on the other hand, I still had lingering feelings for her. This inner conflict made me feel weird, and I may have been somewhat weird around her because of it, especially because I was feeling a little jealous about how she kinda drifted away from me, and the way she used to act with me, she was suddenly acting towards two other male coworkers. Then, over the last month or two, a small handful of other coworkers had found out about me having liked her, and one or more of them (I honestly don't know who) blew a bunch of stuff I said and did WAY out of proportion, and they went to her about it.

 

This prompted her to come to me a couple weeks ago, and tell me that she had heard stuff from other people (she never told me what she heard or who she heard it from), and that she felt like things had gotten weird at work, and that she didn't like that. At the time, I was speechless, but the next time I worked with her, I sat down with her and talked. I told her that I'd take responsibility for all that stuff, and I apologized that things had gotten weird and out of hand. I made it clear to her that I wasn't "pursuing" her anymore, and conveyed that I would like to be better friends with her. She listened to what I had to say, she said that she was fine with us being friends at work but that she felt it would be too weird for anything outside of work, and she told me that management had been made aware of the situation and that there was now an HR file on it and that if I did anything else, I'd risk getting in big trouble (though she strongly implied that either someone else went to management about it, or that someone else heavily influenced her to go to management, though she didn't tell me who). We both then agreed that we were "good", and she said we shouldn't talk about this ever again.

 

Management hasn't talked to me about any of this, and considering it's been a couple weeks, I assume they won't now. While she, nor anyone else, has actually said it, that is what this kind of situation would fall under, "sexual harassment". And admittedly, she, nor anyone else, has called me "weird", "creepy", or anything of the sort, but that's kind of how I FEEL around her or anyone else now. I mean, she and I still aren't talking much anymore (definitely not like we used to before any of this happened), and she's still way more interested in those two other male coworkers, and I even feel odd around other coworkers now because of everything that happened. So, no, nobody has actually said those quoted words to me, but again, I very much feel it and get that vibe from people. Whether it's all in my head or not, I don't know, but eh.

 

 

 

Hm. See, I always feel skeptical when I get advice like this, because I've seen plenty of people who didn't have themselves together, or weren't the most appealing, yet they manage to find love, romance, and intimacy in their lives. So, I always wonder, if they can do it, why can't I? Why do I have to spend god-knows-how-long making myself the best, most attractive person I can possibly be in order to get a date? Granted, I understand it's more of a distraction, as in, if I'm focusing on "working on myself", I won't notice as much that I'm not finding anyone. But still, I don't think I'm so bad off that I'm completely undateable. It doesn't make much sense to me.

 

 

 

Interesting article, though I can't really take anything away from the "How to break the cycle bit", and here's why (numbering them the same way they're numbered in the article):

 

1. Honestly, it's rare that I get "close enough" to anyone, let alone women. For the most part, I'm very limited as to what I share with people. Most people I know and meet don't know much about me beyond my personality. Of course, if someone asks me things about myself, I'll share, but it's pretty rare for anyone to actively take an interest in me enough to try to get to know me better.

 

2. I don't really feel like I "put women on pedestals". I don't put women "above myself" like that, and honestly, that's not what I'm looking for in a relationship. The women I tend to be attracted to are the ones that I feel most "equal" to myself, if anything.

 

3. If I like a girl enough, I will ask her out. Granted, it usually takes me some time to figure out if I like a girl enough to ask her out on a date (and for 98% of the girls I've met over the last eight or so years, I never end up liking them enough to want to date them). With the last girl I liked, I think we kinda started talking and having a good time together in about May or June, I started realizing I liked her a lot in about July or August, and I actually asked her out at the end of August. I suppose that may seem like a long stretch of time, but you also have to factor in that we only got to spend that time together from May to August about once a week (sometimes once every other week, even), so...

 

4. "Meeting the right person" isn't much of advice. That seems more like luck, than anything else (and I've never been a particularly "lucky" guy). I've seen family friends in their 40s and 50s that never "met the right person", and none of them were necessarily bad, unappealing people. If they can be good people and still never meet anyone, how can I convince myself that I could turn out any different?

[LoveSoDeep]

Oh, Matt...here you go again....you don;t want to try to change anything but you hate the results you're getting with the way you are doing things now.

 

You always say you don't see the point...maybe you don't see it b/c if you don't change there will never be any change to be seen! Sometimes you just have to try something new...really try it. I've done the same thing I wanted to be in better shape but everybody told me I needed to try jogging....I hated jogging I never saw any point in doing it b/c I'd always get out of breath too quickly so I basically refused to try it....for like 20 years! Finally this year I just bit the bullet and started a program that worked me into it slowly....Now I can jog on the treadmill for 30 minutes straight.... and I actaully like it and to top it all off I'm in much better shape which was my goal all along. I could have resisted forever and never gotten in shape but I chose to just TRY something new something everyone told me would work. All we're doing is asking you to TRY something new something from our experience we know will work...please don't do what I did (refuse to try it for 20 years)...I don't want you to be single and lonely at 44!

[MattW]

That's the key thing, though; you say you WANTED to be in "better shape". And that's great. But personally, I'm fairly satisfied with the shape I'm in. I'm not overweight, and while I'm not exactly ripped, I don't mind having more of a "belly" than "abs". Actually, I like that look for myself, honestly. I think the slightly "chubby" look works for me. Besides, nobody can even tell (I'm a pretty small guy in general) unless I actually strip down, which I never do in front of another person, so...

 

What I'm getting at is, I'm satisfied with a lot of that stuff that I could be "working on". I don't feel a motivation to work out, get in shape, etc., because I kinda like the way I look. The only things I'm unsatisfied with in terms of appearance are A) my height (which I can't change), B) the fact that I have a lot of trouble properly growing facial hair (which I don't think I can do much about), and C) a particular skin condition I have on my chest that I've not had much luck getting rid of (I probably could invest time and energy into remedying this, but again, being that I never "strip down" in front of people, it's not much of a concern, because I'm the only one that sees it anyway).

 

As far as everything else goes, I'm not thrilled to still be working in retail, but I'm still working on my education and until that's done, I can't imagine I qualify for anything beyond service jobs like that. I have some hobbies I enjoy, but none are particularly conducive to meeting people.

 

The message here is, there's nothing about myself that I'm particularly unhappy with to give myself motivation to "work on". Obviously I'm not perfect, and I'm not trying to imply that I am in any way, but there just isn't anything about myself that I'm "driven" to work on, because I'm basically okay with who I am. The only thing I'm majorly unhappy with is not having people in my life. And unfortunately, there's no foolproof straightforward approach to changing that; at least with getting in shape, for example, you can say "work out x amount of time a day", and if you adhere to that, you'll see results. You can't apply that line of thinking with people. You might meet people, you might not; people you meet might like you, they might not.

 

 

 

That's generally what I do, when interacting with girls. I'm much more interested in getting to know them for who they are, rather than expressing "sexual" interest in them via flirting. And like I said, it's not like I go into it with the mindset of "I'm going to try to be her best friend, then when she least expects it, I'm going to tell her I'm crazy about her and ask her to be my girlfriend!". For me, I don't really know whether I'm personally attracted to a girl until I've gotten to know her a bit. That's basically what happened with the last girl I liked. We worked together for a year and never really talked beyond some light chitchat, then we suddenly started getting opportunities to really talk and get to know each other, and I realized I liked her a lot and wanted to ask her out.

[LoveSoDeep]

I wasn't saying you need to be in better shape....what I wanted was to be in better shape...What YOU want is to find a girl you connect with to hopefully have a nice realtionship....right? That's why you're here, right?

 

That I'm happy with evreything is BS or you wouldn't be here asking for advice.....you'd like to have better luck with women (what man wouldn't?) so you've asked for advice NUMEROUS times and every time you just igrore our advice saying you don't see the point....well you might see the point if you just tried it and it happened to work. What does it hurt to guive our advice a try if it doesn't work then feel free to come back and tell us all we were wrong.....but at least get off your tush and try something!

[blueidealist24]

Unfortunately, your height might cause girls to view you as "weird" when you pursue them, and since your short height is sort of abnormal you might not get away with what a taller guy can say. It's not fair but anything outside the norm is more likely to be perceived as "weird". Same with an overly fat person. That being said, I think it might be in your head that you coworkers view you as "creepy." I think they thought what you were saying about the girl on Facebook was a little unusual, maybe a cause for concern about your emotional state, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "creepy" or a "sexual harasser." If management didn't say anything to you, I don't think they're seriously considering your past behaviour a case of sexual harassment.

[Slimpee]

I'm pretty sure i'm one of those people.

 

I have never had anyone ever incinuate that I was remotely attractive.

 

 

 

40 dollars is alot for a pair of jeans. Too much IMO.

 

And those "oxford's" look like bowling shoes.

 

I don't wear dress shoes at all unless it's for a funeral.

 

And the last time I went to an actual salon, I got an f'n buttcut from the guy doing my hair. I looked rediculous.

 

I prefer to spend the 14 dollars I do at a local "salon".

 

So let me get this straight: You don't think you're attractive and certainly not attractive enough to playfully tease and make playfully sexual comments to women but you don't want to spend a little money to improve your appearance? (I totally understand if money is tight but I have purchased some great looking shirts at Penny's and Kohls that were no more than $20. Penny's sells some decent Arizona jeans for $20. Find something that fits well (ie not too baggy, not too tight, not too long and bunched up at the bottom)

 

I really don't get this seemingly pervasive attitude in these forums: I don't know how to get a significant other! Other people can say/do things and they get dates/laid/relationships...why can't it work for me? I'm tired of superficial men/women who only want good looks/money/"social value"/younger/bigger boobs/"skankier" who get all the dates while nice people like me sit home alone!

 

ENA advice: Make some changes! Develop new hobbies! Talk over things with a therapist! Work towards being happy with yourself! Go to the gym! Get a new haircut! Stop wearing stupid tshirts out to the bars! Do some makeup!

 

Person seeking advice: I can't/don't want to/don't know how/tried but it didn't work/it won't work. Or, my favorite: I shouldn't have to change...the world should change!

 

It's completely ludicrous. It seems like some people here just want someone to agree that the world is conspiring against them and they shouldn't have to change anything. Or, they want some magical pickup line that will get them what they want w/out having to do any work.

 

Well folks, if things were working out the way you're doing them, you wouldn't be here seeking advice! So, maybe it will take some work but some change in some way is probably necessary. And even if it doesn't work out the exact way you think it should, at least you tried! Rarely do people take a chance and regret it...

[Slimpee]

 

 

Hm. See, I always feel skeptical when I get advice like this, because I've seen plenty of people who didn't have themselves together, or weren't the most appealing, yet they manage to find love, romance, and intimacy in their lives. So, I always wonder, if they can do it, why can't I? Why do I have to spend god-knows-how-long making myself the best, most attractive person I can possibly be in order to get a date? Granted, I understand it's more of a distraction, as in, if I'm focusing on "working on myself", I won't notice as much that I'm not finding anyone. But still, I don't think I'm so bad off that I'm completely undateable. It doesn't make much sense to me.

 

 

But as you've discovered, those guys have something you don't: confidence, charisma, charm, whatever (i'm not saying you're not any of those...just throwing a few out there). Many of those guys just have whatever it is innately but you don't for whatever reason. So, when we say work on being happy and content with yourself, it's because a person who is happy w/ the direction his life is going, has interesting hobbies, can carry on a conversation about a great many topics, etc., will be attractive to women.

 

But you do it for YOU, not to get a gf because if it's the latter, you will always be gauging your "success" by whether you have a gf or not.

 

Yet you say that you are content with your life and have no motivation to grow. Think that lack of motivation is attractive to women?

[MattW]

Yet you say that you are content with your life and have no motivation to grow. Think that lack of motivation is attractive to women?

 

Well, I didn't say I don't aspire to anything, it's just that my aspirations are mostly career/ education related, and that kinda thing takes time, yanno? Can't just finish school and have an awesome job overnight. Other than that, aside from the loneliness and lack of people in my life, there's not much about me that I feel really needs to be changed or worked on.

[LoveSoDeep]

Well, I didn't say I don't aspire to anything, it's just that my aspirations are mostly career/ education related, and that kinda thing takes time, yanno? Can't just finish school and have an awesome job overnight. Other than that, aside from the loneliness and lack of people in my life, there's not much about me that I feel really needs to be changed or worked on.

 

BINGO! You DO want to be less lonely and have more people in your life I'm guessing a girlfriend would be preferrable. We're trying to help you with that. What you've been doing OBVIOUSLY doesn't work, so why not try something new?

 

I get that you have other goals as in school and career and that's great but if you want to be less lonely and have better rationships...which you sated above you do....then you're going to hve to try something new socially. PERIOD!

[Wonderstruck]

When you say that you "may have been somewhat weird around her because of it", what do you mean? How did you act "weird" around her? Can you give a few specific examples?

 

As for your co-workers, what stuff did you say and do that they "blew out of proportion"?

 

 

 

 

You keep bringing up how she seems closer and more interested in those other two male co-workers - what does that have to do with anything?

 

I'm sorry, but your jealousy over that irks me. You NEVER dated her, or were her boyfriend, and you're not entitled to have her return your interest. Maybe she really DOES like those other two guys better than you - unfortunately, sometimes that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

You act almost territorial over her, as if it's NOT FAIR that she's acting warm, friendly and maybe even slightly flirty towards other male co-workers after she acted that way towards you for awhile.

 

But it's COMPLETELY fair - you two were never more than co-workers to each other (not even friends who really hung out outside of work), and she owes you NOTHING.

 

If she naturally drifted away from you, and grew closer to them, then that's her prerogative and her right. She's not your ex-girlfriend, and she didn't, as far as I can tell, do anything deceitful to "lead you on" and then "drop you" or anything like that.

[MattW]

When you say that you "may have been somewhat weird around her because of it", what do you mean? How did you act "weird" around her? Can you give a few specific examples?

 

Well, that's the thing, I don't really know. I mean, I didn't think I was doing anything differently towards her, it just seemed like her reactions changed. Before things got "bad", we'd both hang out with each other a lot at work and initiate conversations and jokes throughout the day; it was pretty back-and-forth. After things probably got "bad", I kept doing that stuff, as though nothing was wrong, and it just seemed like she had stopped, and was becoming a little more indifferent towards me in general.

 

As for your co-workers, what stuff did you say and do that they "blew out of proportion"?

 

Anyone that found out figured it out based on their own observations and then confronted me about it. I tried to be careful about what I actually said, because this was exactly what I was trying to avoid. I still don't understand what any of them could've misinterpreted. As far as any of them knew, I was a bummed that things didn't work out because I liked her a lot, but I made sure they knew that I wasn't still "pursuing" her or trying to "get with" her. Heck, one or two of them even suggested I talk to her again about going out, and I shot down those suggestions. That's why I don't really understand what any of them could've said to her and went to management about. Worst case scenario, I seemed hung up on her, but was in the process of getting over it. It's not like I gave any of them a reason to believe I was going to do anything further towards her.

 

I'm sorry, but your jealousy over that irks me. You NEVER dated her, or were her boyfriend, and you're not entitled to have her return your interest. Maybe she really DOES like those other two guys better than you - unfortunately, sometimes that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

You act almost territorial over her, as if it's NOT FAIR that she's acting warm, friendly and maybe even slightly flirty towards other male co-workers after she acted that way towards you for awhile.

 

But it's COMPLETELY fair - you two were never more than co-workers to each other (not even friends who really hung out outside of work), and she owes you NOTHING.

 

If she naturally drifted away from you, and grew closer to them, then that's her prerogative and her right. She's not your ex-girlfriend, and she didn't, as far as I can tell, do anything deceitful to "lead you on" and then "drop you" or anything like that.

 

I'm not trying to be "jealous", I'm not saying it's "not fair", and I'm not mad or upset at her in any way. It just kinda makes me... sad. Last summer and into fall, we had really hit it off pretty well, and we got to know each other as people. I felt like she enjoyed and valued my companionship as much as I enjoyed and valued hers, and that was a really nice feeling, one that I'd never felt before. I'm not resentful towards her, I just miss that feeling I described, I miss when it felt like I had someone that valued and enjoyed my companionship as I did theirs, even if we weren't dating or even "best friends", and it makes me sad to see her having that with other people now instead of me.

[jonny15]

So let me get this straight: You don't think you're attractive and certainly not attractive enough to playfully tease and make playfully sexual comments to women but you don't want to spend a little money to improve your appearance? (I totally understand if money is tight but I have purchased some great looking shirts at Penny's and Kohls that were no more than $20. Penny's sells some decent Arizona jeans for $20. Find something that fits well (ie not too baggy, not too tight, not too long and bunched up at the bottom)

 

Money is very tight. And most pants are a little baggy on me near the end since I have short legs.

 

 

ENA advice: Make some changes! Develop new hobbies! Talk over things with a therapist! Work towards being happy with yourself! Go to the gym! Get a new haircut! Stop wearing stupid tshirts out to the bars! Do some makeup!

 

I personally prefer to wear t-shirts. I'm not big on "dressing up". It's not comfortable.

 

And makeup? Wut?

[kourtney01]

As a woman I can say the following:

 

If you started off joking and shooting the s*it with me in a platonic way.. you have automatically put yourself in the friend zone from the beginning. Trying to hit on me later down the road after you are already in the friend category would make me uncomfortable and would down right piss me off. I've had it happen with a few guy friends and suffice it to say..they're no longer friends of mine. And I remember feeling betrayed at the time because I thought they were actual friends. (this is why I no longer have male friends)

 

You don't have to be overly sexual when asking a girl out. Just ask her out. On a date. From the beginning. Don't put yourself in the friends zone then try to make things sexual.. it never works out and comes off as creepy.

 

Female perspective.

[MattW]

Well, again, it's not like something I plan out. I mean, I don't meet a girl and make up some elaborate plan of being friends with her and then trying to get with her later. The few times I've been into a girl, I was just making friends, and after a certain point, something would "click" with me and I'd start developing feelings. Basically, I didn't plan to be friends first and then fall for a girl, that's just how things typically happen for me. I've really never been the type to see a "pretty girl" out in the wild, and want to chat her up and ask her out. I don't really start developing attraction to any specific girl until I've gotten to know her a bit and see what she's like.

 

I'd like to think that that "method" alone isn't bad or wrong. I just have a hard time properly expressing "romantic" interest. The only thing I can do is ask a girl out if I like her enough, but if I can't "flirt" with her properly beforehand, she's not likely to be inclined to want to go out with me. "Flirting" doesn't really seem to be my forte, and I'm wary of doing it at all because I don't want to weird anyone out or come off as "creepy"/ "pervy".

[blueidealist24]

So.. you don't like relationships that start as friends first? A lot of relationships start that way..

[BrianH46]

Don't friendships have boundaries and assumed intentions? It's awkward having a friend "suddenly" become attracted to you after a few years or months because the boundaries and intentions you have must be reassessed. If a guy/girl makes their intentions known early on you can act accordingly either shoot them down (then become friends or not) or allow a relationship to progress.