Fighting Loneliness..Does it ever end???

[ck]

Well, I think the consensus is that we'd all prefer to have someone else do the asking, but in my opinion, we have to give a little and step to the plate ourselves, sometimes.

 

Um, I still do about 99.99999999999999999% of the asking. So I'm constantly in th batters box. It's the ladies that sit in the dugout watching the game. It's not that I prefer them to ask, It's thatI wish some of them would actually do it once in a while and not shy away from it because of one bad experience. I mean I still do it eventhough some of the ladies I have asked treated it like it should have been an honour for me for them to just acknowledge my existence. But hey, each time that happens I just climb another rung on the ladder towards becoming those "jaded thirty-something" guys you and Muneca write about.

 

Doorik you should get a medal or something for your patients and willpower, I don't think I could do that day after day knowing that I put myself out there all the time and the 90% of the women are having a ball watching me fail.

 

I know they talk to their friends about guys who persue them because I hear them talk and a few are my friends and they keep telling me the same stuff "Oh that guy tried to get my number he is ugly"

 

or

 

"Why do guys always try to talk to me"

 

And they say it in a snotty way like they are gods gift to men. That is so annoying and disgusting they make me want to throw up.

[doorik]

 

Doorik you should get a medal or something for your patients and willpower, I don't think I could do that day after day knowing that I put myself out there all the time and the 90% of the women are having a ball watching me fail.

 

I know they talk to their friends about guys who persue them because I hear them talk and a few are my friends and they keep telling me the same stuff "Oh that guy tried to get my number he is ugly"

 

or

 

"Why do guys always try to talk to me"

 

And they say it in a snotty way like they are gods gift to men. That is so annoying and disgusting they make me want to throw up.

 

I hear ya ck-well to be honest out of the ones that reject in a erm, not so cordial manner probably constitute about 40ish %. You are right about those snide remarks they make tho.

[doorik]

Doorik, maybe you're going for the wrong girls. Because, as a female, I know tons of other females who don't act uppity when a guy approaches them. The ones that do, well, that's their problem. If you choose to use that as an excuse to become jaded towards women, I beg you to reconsider. For every pretentious chick out there who is deluded about what she actually has to offer, there are ten who are genuinely cool and friendly.

 

1/11? nah more like 2/5 are like that. At least in my and my best mates' experiences. The curve becomes exponential when you ladies get together in groups.

 

Not an excuse, more cause and effect. I'm sure the fellas here would agree with me.

[doorik]

Jaded=lonely.

 

Not according to Muneca. Earlier in this discussion she states that these "jaded thirty-something guys" go from meaningless to meaningless relationships with younger females - or something to that effect. Doesn't sound lonely to me does it?

[doorik]

Doorik you should get a medal or something for your patients and willpower, I don't think I could do that day after day knowing that I put myself out there all the time and the 90% of the women are having a ball watching me fail.

 

Medal? Nah the reward comes in the rare instances where:

 

1) I find a girl attractive

2) I ask her out - She did the pursuing because she looked my way right

scout?

3) She says yes

4) We go out and we have a good time

5) We see each other again because I find her mentally stimulating as

well as the physical stuff

 

But off course these criteria are RARELY met

[doorik]

"Oh that guy tried to get my number he is ugly"

 

or

 

"Why do guys always try to talk to me"

 

And they say it in a snotty way like they are gods gift to men. That is so annoying and disgusting they make me want to throw up.

 

Here's where ck makes a points that I challenge you to refute scout. Next time you are with your single lady friends listen to what they say when they reject a guy. I mean really listen to them. Then come on these boards and tell me it aint so.

 

Moreover, while your comments are much appreciated neither you or Muneca have wrote anything that specifically address my previous comments indicating that I may be right (specifically that shy stuff). I mean both you and Muneca are in your thirties, are more experienced than I, yet have nothing that refutes what I say. Just the classic "confidense gets the ladies" and "Don't be shy" Cliches (ck, i know that vein near your temple throbbed when you read that ). Telling isn't it?

[Mun]

A positive attitude would be a plus. Anytime we are take on a new challenge, whether it be asking a girl out or climbing a mountain and we do it with the mentality that says "Why try if I am going to fail" chances are you will fail. The state of mind you are in and how you prepare yourself has enough to do with success as actually attempting to succeed.

 

As you say just because a woman has failed a few times when she has persued a man it should not be reason for her to stop doing it. I think that same principle applies to a man, do not lose your faith in women simply because a few have turned you down.

 

You may be looking at the wrong type of girls-just like Scout suggested. What kind of girls are you asking out anyway? You will find a girl that is right for you, you should not give up. I have heard my friends talk about men that they have turned down and the reasons are as varied as you can imagine.

 

I remember a man being mad as hell because I didn't want him, but instead dated someone else. It's a matter of taste and we reserve the right to date who we want. I have never turned down a man because I thought I was too good for him that's not my style. I don't think you would want to have to date a girl just because she asked you out---and you didn't find her attractive in the least. Or would you?

 

I personally would be weary of accepting a date from a man who is already assuming I will say no--his demeanor would probably give it away--he might even look angry. I would be more inclined to accept an invitation from a man who is friendly and at ease with himself.

 

I don't mean to sound offensive have you even considered changing your attitude and your perception of women? or are you so closed to the possibility that a girl will actually say yes that you might be self-sabotaging without even realizing it?

 

Like I said half the battle is having a winners attitude. In anything you do your attitude is as important as your abilities.

 

Change this and it might not lead to the loneliness everyone on this thread has been dealing with.

[ck]

Everything you women post sounds good on paper, but most of you and I say most because atleast one woman on this board had enough confidence to say and do so; have told other women to atleast take their own advice and START ASKING OUT THE GUYS YOU WANT!

 

Where is the so called confidence you girls state yall have? Or is it false?

Yeah this is a message board and you have the right to say whatever yall want, but you can't critic a man for being mysogynistic or bitter when you haven't even took a walk in his shoes.

 

That's like a skinny girl trying to tell fat girls how to try harder to loose weight.

[JonnyG]

I think that women now adays are having to become the pursuers. However, they shouldn't. If a women pursues (like I said in my earlier post) it is usually taken (from a guys point of view) as a "lets go have sex." If a guy approaches first it is something more than just sex. ...................................I hope people understand my view in this.

 

Um no I'm sorry I don't see it?

 

I don't see it either. Its just a BS excuse to not have to face the possibility of rejection. Why, just because a lady goes up to a guy and says "Hi", does it mean "lets go have sex right now"? Why can't it mean that she likes the look of the guy and wants to get to know him better?

 

Surely the majority of guys out for a night in their drunken states are more likely to be wanting sex when they say "Hi" to a lady than the lady herself??????

 

Im a shy guy and luckily for me, some girls come upto me first, and only 2 of them were 1 night stands. The rest of them were girls who were more interested in me in terms of going out together. I can tell u now, that the ratio of guys going upto girls on nights out just for sex is higher than the number of women going up to guys. Its logical, more guys are up for 1 night stands than girls, and thereforeeee this whole argument is stupid and hypocritical. Guys want to have sex more than woman when they say "Hi"

 

Anyway girls/ladies, i don't see why u should feel bad by asking out guys, because every guy here basically says that its time women started making more effort when it comes to finding people each other. thereforeeee I don't know where all the guys are who are saying "nnooo, please don't ask me out u beautiful sexy thing, let me ask u out instead" In fact, come to think of it, I don't know anybody who would rather risk asking out girls, im pretty sure all my male friends would much rather sit there looking good and an endless amount of girls come up to them

 

 

EDIT: I've been missing out, didnt realise cK was here argueing, these are always fun to watch

[Mun]

You are right Ck, I have no idea why women are turning you guys down. All I can do is speculate based on what you have written so far.

 

You know, I'm sorry that this has happened to you guys. Nobody should have to be rejected so much that they become bitter and mysogynistic. We have a right to choose who we want to date, but there is no reason why we should be cruel when turning somebody down. I think you turn people down enough times, before you know it, nobody is going to ask you out anymore.

 

Karma my friend

 

(could be the reason why they say beautiful girls don't have dates on Saturday night--have you heard that before?) Which reminds me, I went to a club once and I noticed something very interesting... All the "hot" girls were in girl groups or with another single girlfriend, and all the average ( pretty but not HOT-by magazine standards anyway) were in couples. They had dates.

[Scout]

ck and doorik - if your public attitude towards women is similar to what you're posting on here, I can see why you might be striking out more often than not. To be honest, neither one of you appears to really like females that much.

 

Don't think that women can't sense that contempt that is simmering underneath your surface demeanor. We can, and no, we won't date guys who exude it.

 

Muneca is making every effort to look at it from your viewpoint. Do you even see that??

[avman]

Alright now, lets not turn this thread into a personal argument.

 

Unfortunately sometimes we have to deal with rejection. Its a fact of dating. But if you feel that EVERYONE is rejecting you then its time to look within and ask yourself why. Its unrealistic to think that the entire other gender has a problem. Because the common factor in all of the rejection is you.

 

So you need to decide whether its your approach, your self confidence, your expectations, or your selection of potential partners that might be the issue. Remember you can't change other people. But you certain can make changes inside.

 

You need to love yourself before you can love others. Be confident without being arrogant. And then see what happens.

[JonnyG]

ck and doorik - if your public attitude towards women is similar to what you're posting on here, I can see why you might be striking out more often than not. To be honest, neither one of you appears to really like females that much.

 

Don't think that women can't sense that contempt that is simmering underneath your surface demeanor. We can, and no, we won't date guys who exude it.

 

Muneca is making every effort to look at it from your viewpoint. Do you even see that??

 

Its funny, these threads usually end up with some1 make this assumption of cK. I can understand your point Scout, but until u step into cK's shoes (and of course other guys in this position), u can never truly experience what its like.

 

The fact is that most girls can sit there safe in the knowledge that when they go out there's a good chance a guy or 2 or more will go upto them. They can take their pick whenever they find the right guy, and even if guys who they don't like come upto them, its a nice ego stroker.

 

Now from a males position. If he sits there (especially if he's not Mr great looking), the chances of a girl coming upto him are extremely low. So the guy HAS to do something. So he decides that each time he goes out, he will try to at least persue 1 girl. But each night is the same. blown out, blown out, blown out, blown out etc etc. With each Blow out, his ego is dented, and the harder it is for him to pluck up the courage for the next attempt. When this happens for days, weeks, then years, it wears people down. Girl's who do make the effort to go upto guys and have been blown out at least once know that it hurts. So imagine this happening over and over.

 

After years of this u can surely see why some men mentally will really start to loathe women. They don't want to but its natural. U can see this effect in action, notice the pages of women asking on this forum "Do all men cheat?" and "Why are all men jerks?" or at least they assume this because they have been hurt many times by guys. Well this is the same point. The guy wants a woman, but they keep getting hurt. And unfortunately in this day and age as mentioned on another thread by a girl, some girls tend to blow out guys in harsher and harsher ways because their sick of men coming upto them, especially the drunk ones (fair point, but sometimes they are probably drunk because they have to get the courage somehow after being blown out so much they see it as the only aid to their quest to win a girl and stop loniness).

 

We live in a world were women want the same rights as men and all this "girl power" is happening. I for 1 see more and more confident women around these days. Use this confidence. Start pulling your own weight on nights out. Us guys really wish u would

 

I appluad the girls who already try to pursue. Keep the good work up

 

And I thank god that some girls do actually come upto me and not all girls say "no" to me when I try to talk to them. *phew* Because i get fed up and im not suffering anywhere near as bad as some guys here do.

 

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, but its kinda amusing reading here how some women say "Why don't men be more bold and ask more often, their just too passive" I don't see how men are the passive 1s

[ck]

ck and doorik - if your public attitude towards women is similar to what you're posting on here, I can see why you might be striking out more often than not. To be honest, neither one of you appears to really like females that much.

 

Don't think that women can't sense that contempt that is simmering underneath your surface demeanor. We can, and no, we won't date guys who exude it.

 

Muneca is making every effort to look at it from your viewpoint. Do you even see that??

 

Scout I'm not striking out because I refuse to give the the pleasure, After reading womens comments from here it looks like I'm not missing that much anyway. Besides I'm comfortable and happy with myself even if yall fail to see this. Hey I see it as them missing out on a good thing not me. Cause see I have been on enough sites to know what you women think like. I hear the "Oh my boyfriend's an (PROFANITY DELETED BY MODERATOR) topics" the "All guys want is sex topics" the "Guys are dogs and if I were in power I would do something negative bad to them", so please lets not make this a me a doorik situation. I've heard it before and I think it's a cop out.

 

We are not the only ones here with problems, and if yall won't date me "speaking for myself of course not Doorik" well then so be it, because I wouldn't date females with the "I am gold and too good for you " syndrom either.

 

Why does it look to you like I'm not seeing her viewpoint?

 

If that is the way you see it then it's on you to interpert it the way you want to, but in real life it's just not the case. She is expressing her viewpoint and I am expressing mine. Now you can hear things from both presepectives or you can choose sides but just because you say so doesn't make her logic any righter than mine.

[ck]

ck and doorik - if your public attitude towards women is similar to what you're posting on here, I can see why you might be striking out more often than not. To be honest, neither one of you appears to really like females that much.

 

Don't think that women can't sense that contempt that is simmering underneath your surface demeanor. We can, and no, we won't date guys who exude it.

 

Muneca is making every effort to look at it from your viewpoint. Do you even see that??

 

Its funny, these threads usually end up with some1 make this assumption of cK. I can understand your point Scout, but until u step into cK's shoes (and of course other guys in this position), u can never truly experience what its like.

 

The fact is that most girls can sit there safe in the knowledge that when they go out there's a good chance a guy or 2 or more will go upto them. They can take their pick whenever they find the right guy, and even if guys who they don't like come upto them, its a nice ego stroker.

 

Now from a males position. If he sits there (especially if he's not Mr great looking), the chances of a girl coming upto him are extremely low. So the guy HAS to do something. So he decides that each time he goes out, he will try to at least persue 1 girl. But each night is the same. blown out, blown out, blown out, blown out etc etc. With each Blow out, his ego is dented, and the harder it is for him to pluck up the courage for the next attempt. When this happens for days, weeks, then years, it wears people down. Girl's who do make the effort to go upto guys and have been blown out at least once know that it hurts. So imagine this happening over and over.

 

After years of this u can surely see why some men mentally will really start to loathe women. They don't want to but its natural. U can see this effect in action, notice the pages of women asking on this forum "Do all men cheat?" and "Why are all men jerks?" or at least they assume this because they have been hurt many times by guys. Well this is the same point. The guy wants a woman, but they keep getting hurt. And unfortunately in this day and age as mentioned on another thread by a girl, some girls tend to blow out guys in harsher and harsher ways because their sick of men coming upto them, especially the drunk ones (fair point, but sometimes they are probably drunk because they have to get the courage somehow after being blown out so much they see it as the only aid to their quest to win a girl and stop loniness).

 

We live in a world were women want the same rights as men and all this "girl power" is happening. I for 1 see more and more confident women around these days. Use this confidence. Start pulling your own weight on nights out. Us guys really wish u would

 

I appluad the girls who already try to pursue. Keep the good work up

 

And I thank god that some girls do actually come upto me and not all girls say "no" to me when I try to talk to them. *phew* Because i get fed up and im not suffering anywhere near as bad as some guys here do.

 

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention, but its kinda amusing reading here how some women say "Why don't men be more bold and ask more often, their just too passive" I don't see how men are the passive 1s

 

Funny you should say that jonny everytime someone chooses not to agree with me, they take my words and twist them into what ever on gods green earth they thought it was I said, and try to insult me with it.

 

Sorry I don't get insulted anymore after being on a web site where trolls run rampant and attack your every being for fun (not this site) I learn to have thick skin. Besides It seems like People come at me first then when I retaliate I get modderated. Nobody else gets modderated though, and so far I have been verbally attacked by Not one but *TWO* modderators And you can ask Doorik because he knows. That's the reason I stopped coming here for a while. Now as modderators I don't know if you just have to post a certain amount of post to become one but shouldn't you not be judgemental?

 

My god didn't I just say I had a couple of female friends, so what would be the point in me having any if I just sisn't like them at all? I would curse out every one of you if I didn't like you and it would be apparent.

 

The fact is most females never want to see how it feels to be in a mans shoes, most of them think they know already and that it is a piece of cake. Others don't want to step out of their comfort zone. I can tell you all day what a good man is but if you never see it can I blame you for not believing there is one out there? Of course I would be mad because I would be sitting here typing to you and not get a single (PROFANITY DELETED BY MODERATOR) date, but here this from women who go out all the time, or to put it in other words let's say your a girl and the only good guys you know are ones who are just friends and that is all they want to be. Then of course your going to feel like wth is going on if you are good enough to be friends and do favors, but not good enough to date. Your going to have completely "LOW" self esteem and feel like crap. And don't tell me "No I won't" because that is human nature. Then how about if I tell you it's your fault you don't have a boyfriend? Yeah you would feel even more crappyer about yourself. No matter how many friends or family members told you you look beautiful.

 

So thank you scout for just proving the point I made and if this post manages to get trashed and deleted; I just want atleast one guy in my situation to read this and know it is NOT!! his fault that society is so messed up today.

[doorik]

ck and doorik - if your public attitude towards women is similar to what you're posting on here, I can see why you might be striking out more often than not. To be honest, neither one of you appears to really like females that much.

 

1) I never said I was striking out more often than not. I was talking about

the nose in the air, abbrasive, what made you think you had a

shot, I'm way to good for you rejections. As I said in a revious post. I

ask out ladies quite often. Some say yes some say no, some are nice

about it when they say no, some are down right mean.

 

2) I like women, it's those nose in the air types that push me up rung by

rung up the ladder towards those jaded thirty-somethings.

[doorik]

 

but there is no reason why we should be cruel when turning somebody down.

 

It isn't all about just the initial turn down, It's the aftermath too. Kinda like the radiation after a nuclear bomb explodes.

 

All I ask is that you listen and I mean really listen to a group of ladies when they talk about the previous night out when all the "only ugly guys approach men" or how they are completely making fun of a guys attempt to secure her phone number complete with impressions. I know you've seen it/heard it before, maybe even by your own close knit group of friends, and I know that ALL the guys here have see it/heard it before.

[doorik]

Don't think that women can't sense that contempt that is simmering underneath your surface demeanor. We can, and no, we won't date guys who exude it.

 

I'm sorry Scout but I don't think this is the case. If you all are good judges of character we wouldn't hear stories from the ladies a about how bad their significant others are, how us guys are lyers, cheaters, dogs, just want sex, etc., etc...

[doorik]

Funny you should say that jonny everytime someone chooses not to agree with me, they take my words and twist them into what ever on gods green earth they thought it was I said, and try to insult me with it.

 

I know what you're saying dood, I don't recall you or I stateing here that we get rejected by every single female we've ever asked out. Yet it somehow became the general concensus.

[doorik]

EDIT: I've been missing out, didnt realise cK was here argueing, these are always fun to watch

 

Yes they are fun. I ussually come into the fold nowadays as people tend to gang up on ck. Whether or not you agree/disagree with cks point of view, the discussions are always, erm, "lively" and entertaining to boot.

[Scout]

The argument that is happening here is distracting from the original topic. I suggest we agree to disagree, and maybe someone can even put a new post up that is titled "Who pursues more - men or women?" Obviously, there are some pretty strong opinions on this topic, and I agree it would be a lively one.

 

But this debate needs to leave this particular thread. We're getting way off topic.

 

Thanks, Scout

[doorik]

 

But this debate needs to leave this particular thread. We're getting way off topic.

 

Thanks, Scout

 

OMG, I think we finally agree on something Scout!!!!!!! :shocked!:

[avman]

I second that. This thread has gone way off topic. Take the argument somewhere else.

[ck]

Dude I don't even want to argue. it's a waste of energy.

 

So Doorik why don't you take up that task and make a forum about who ask more? Probably going to be a lot of fabrications and stuff, but maybe we can hope people "keep it real"

[wonder01]

Hello...

 

I am a 45 year old male and I have ended up here for the same reason as many of you. I found the quote below very significant and would like to discuss it from a different perspective. The quote below:

 

"She said that there is a growing trend for elderly women living single. Their husbands either die, and they end up living alone. She goes, "So learn to live alone.""

 

What I am increasingly finding is that more women ARE "learing to live alone" - so much so they seem to stiff arm any attempts at anything. Hell... I would be happy to even just get a smile from a woman anymore. And no... I'm not some pathetic loser. I am grounded and not hard on the eyes so to speak but I am finding that women just don't ever seem interested anymore. They have their friends, their high paying jobs. They buy their own diamond rings. What need do they have for a male anymore? Is this the way they really think? I don't know but it sure feels that way.

 

I'd give anything to feel needed or wanted anymore by a woman. However, I am realizing with despair that it ain't gonna happen and that realizaton hits harder with each "No".

 

And please... don't write to me saying "perhaps you are going for the wrong women". Not true. I see nothing wrong at all for being attracted to an intelligent woman.

 

Consequently, I'm about to sell this big ol empty house, take the profits and head for the beach to be a bohemian. What's the use in being responsible anymore?

 

It is so strange... it seems the larger the population becomes the lonlier we all get.

 

My hope has finally died.

 

Steve in VA