Fighting Loneliness..Does it ever end???

[Scout]

Doorik and ck...can you provide some details about why you think the opposite is the case? I personally feel that females do a lot more pursuing than they used to, based on the experiences of myself and my friends. I'm curious to hear why you don't agree. It might give me some insight. Thanks!

[johnagent1911]

Girls being pursuers? Heh are you kidding? I have many female friends and none of them I know has EVER asked a guy out.

[doorik]

Doorik and ck...can you provide some details about why you think the opposite is the case? I personally feel that females do a lot more pursuing than they used to, based on the experiences of myself and my friends. I'm curious to hear why you don't agree. It might give me some insight. Thanks!

 

Sure,

 

I don't think we define "pursue" as the same thing. You see, I believe that the pursuer MUST ask the pursuee out. There must be the risk of rejection somewhere. I do not feel you are truly persuing anyone unless risk your ego/feelings/pride/confidense/emotions. If you and your lady friends think "hey I'm talking to him, that makes me the pursuer" you are mistaken. You must ask to purue. I've asked many ladies out, some have said yes, many have said no. Some have been cordial about it, some have been down right mean.

 

I've known ladies that tried asking a guy out once, were rejected and promptly decided they would never do it again. Yet us men must lick our wounds and go in for another round simply because we're men. Many guys will eagerly step into a ring against an opponent twice their size before they'll consider asking a girl they're attracted to out for dinner. A girl can put a guy in a world of hurt and no matter how fast or skilled he is, he'll never avoid it. Flesh and bones heal, blood is cheap and pain is free, but the heart is a different matter. There's nothing poetic or sappy about it; when a guy asks out a girl, especially one he is emotionally attracted to, he is peeling away his armour and forfeiting any sort of defence. When the blade sinks, it sinks deep.

 

I've witnessed guys the size of houses who were unafraid of rabid dogs take three hours to work up the nerve to talk to a girl, only to be humiliated right there while they're totally defenceless. It's almost comical watching guys that big wilt under the merciless tongue of a girl a third their size. But the looks on their faces, the ones you usually see morbidly frozen on road kill, aren't.

 

So that's why I believe that you and your lady friends believe that you are the pursuers, yet in actuallity you are not

 

-Doorik-

[doorik]

Girls being pursuers? Heh are you kidding? I have many female friends and none of them I know has EVER asked a guy out.

 

You see Scout,

 

We men believe that the pursuer MUST do the asking - Flirting, initiating conversation, giving him "signs" and "cues" are meaningless to the "we are the pursuer" argument because when a lady does the above she risks NOTHING.

[ck]

Doorik and ck...can you provide some details about why you think the opposite is the case? I personally feel that females do a lot more pursuing than they used to, based on the experiences of myself and my friends. I'm curious to hear why you don't agree. It might give me some insight. Thanks!

 

Well what doorik said

I've known ladies that tried asking a guy out once, were rejected and promptly decided they would never do it again. Yet us men must lick our wounds and go in for another round simply because we're men.

 

and the fact that I never in my 23 years of being on this earth ever saw a girl get the guts to straight forward ask a guy out.

 

You can say well girls flirt, play with thier hair, yadda yadda, but truth is some girls do that naturally, others are just teases and none have ever walked up to a guy and said like a human being "Hi I like you and I would like to take you out on a date, to dinner, movie or whatever sometimes" Yes we like to hear the same things you women so, we are not from another galaxy, and no I can't tell the difference between you just wanting to be a friend or just getting close to me while having some alterior motive that you do not wish to discuss.

[wlfpack81]

I applaud you ck and doorik on those last few posts. Excellent description/analysis of the dating game in the new today.

[Mun]

I've asked guys out before.. it never turned into a working relationship, I was either taken for granted, dissed, or traded in for a girl who let men persue her. This from men who showed lot's of interest in the beginning. Go figure.

 

Something about this kind of setup just doesn't work as well as when it is the man asking out and setting up the date. Maybe it's the fact that when he is the one doing all the work to see a girl he feels good about himself and about her. If she is the one asking out and setting everything up...maybe he feels rushed or crowded? I just don't know.

 

I have discovered that men respond better to a girl they have persued...than with a girl who told him she likes him and asked him out. If he has to do a bit of work to get the girl, he is most likely to behave himself and not be a jerk---cuz he invested time and feelings to get the girl in the first place. If the girl was easy to get, he won't value her as much.

 

I hate to compare it to this, but here is an example:

You see your dream car sitting in a car lot. You want it. You picture yourself driving around and showing it off. So, you save all your money from your first job to get yourself that dream car. After months of working and saving, you finally have enough, so you head over to the lot and buy it. You feel so proud, all that hard work paid off, you can't wait to drive it home. You are going to take care of that baby because it cost you some hard earned cash working your butt off in some part-time job...and you had to wait and save up for months before you could have it. You're probably going to wash it every week and ask your friends to clean their shoes before they get in...heh 8)

 

Now picture the same car, daddy comes up and hands you the keys right before graduation. Won't you take it out on the first run and see how fast you can get it to go? I'm guessing you won't take as good care of it as you would have if it had taken months of saving up to buy it. It's the same with a girl.

 

So I disagree, even if a man says he wants a woman to ask him out, this is not what is going to turn him on to her. He can say this, and he may believe it, but it's the girl he has to persue that he is going to treat like a queen.

 

Don't be shy guys. The confident man gets the girl.

 

We seem to be getting off subject again. Sorry about that Tiger_lilies

[johnagent1911]

Maybe you should try going after the shy guys? I just find it hard to believe you can't find a guy that doesn't want just sex...

[Mun]

It's not only about sex, but about a good, quality relationship. Thanks for the tip, but I don't like shy guys.

 

If I have to make all the moves in a relationship, then how do I know he is really into me--or he is just going along because he is too shy to go after a girl he really likes?...and would rather be content and unhappy with me.

[Scout]

Thanks, guys for answering my questions. I probably should make a separate topic about this issue because it's one that if both genders have a good understanding of where we're all coming from, might actually change some of the "rules" of dating.

 

I too have asked guys out before, or called a guy after he gave me his number (he didn't ask for mine). But, I do agree with you Doorik - many women (myself included) feel like we are pursuing if we walk up to a guy and initiate conversation. You don't feel like that's pursuing, to a degree?

 

You know, I read something on eNotalone recently that really disturbed me. I wish I could find the post. Anyway, a guy said - and many other guys agreed - that it's the girls who walk up to them and initiate conversation that they know will end up being "easy" - or a "pick-up" - and that it's the shy girls that they prefer because they know they aren't players/easy.

 

Now which is it guys want? The "shy girl" or the one who does have the courage to pursue the guy/ask him for the date?

 

How this all ties in with the original topic is, maybe if all of us change some of our perceptions about the opposite sex, we won't be so alone!

[johnagent1911]

If a girl walked up to me and started talking, I'd personally only think she was being friendly... And nothing more. I wouldn't think she's "pursuing" anything other than having a conversation.

[johnagent1911]

Shy guys just have to get past the first stage of meeting someone most of the time... Which is meeting you and making sure that you're in to them. We don't want to push anything if you don't want us to. After that I'm sure they'll lead. I know I do, and I'm shy at first. Don't give up on us. We need the 'good' girls just as you need the 'good' guys. You say you're looking for someone who will love you beyond anything in the world yet you don't 'like' the shy ones? Sometimes you get what you give... I know if a girl I liked would give me a chance, I'd change her outlook on life.

[ck]

I believe your going after a certain kind of man because not all men want the same thing would that be fair for me to put all of you women in a box and say all women want is money and good looks and that when they say they just care about personality that they are completely bad liars?

 

I for one do not get turned on by asking women out, nor do I loose any sleep over it, so either way....

 

"Don't be shy guys. The confident man gets the girl. "

 

and the timid girl does too is what your going to say too right?

 

Maybe but I don't buy into that whole gender role thing.

 

It's the year 2004 girls get up off your fanny's and have some control over your destiny, or else don't complain about the so called Loser guys yall date because well he just managed to mosey on up to you.

[doorik]

I applaud you ck and doorik on those last few posts. Excellent description/analysis of the dating game in the new today.

 

Why thank you, your compliments are greatly appreciated.

[doorik]

Yeah, well if the guy is really rich he does not have to do all of the above because he can purchase the car immediately can't he?

[doorik]

oops double post

[doorik]

So I disagree, even if a man says he wants a woman to ask him out, this is not what is going to turn him on to her. He can say this, and he may believe it, but it's the girl he has to persue that he is going to treat like a queen.

 

Hmmm...I wonder why we always, ALWAYS hear ladies complain about how poorly their boyfriends treat them? More like a Servant than a Queen you say? Well he did the pursuing so eventually he'll get his act together.

[doorik]

Don't be shy guys. The confident man gets the girl.

 

In no way did I or ck mention that either of us were shy. In fact if you look at one of my previous posts you will see that I ask out ladies often. It's the "down right mean" rejections that I refer to that push me towards becoming one of those "jaded thirtsomething" guys you refer too.

 

So according to the above assertion a young man must turn off their emotions and not be nervous, apprehensive, concerned, fearfull of rejection right? I mean those emotions flood many of us when we approach a lady do they not? If that's the case well then answer me this. Why do ladies complain about "emotionally distant" men who turn their emotions on and off like a faucet when that is precisely what you want?

[Mun]

I'm sorry but my post was my personal opinion based on my experience and that of my girlfriends-- it was not directed at anyone in particular.

 

I appreciate your posts because they offer a different point of view and you may be right, if we women took a chance to ask a guy out we may not be so lonely.

 

It just doesn't work for me, that's all.

[ck]

Well me doing the asking doesn't work for me either, so I guess I will stick to what works.

[Scout]

Well, I think the consensus is that we'd all prefer to have someone else do the asking, but in my opinion, we have to give a little and step to the plate ourselves, sometimes. Or we're going to be missing out on some potentially good things that can help alleviate our loneliness.

 

Yes, I like some old-fashioned courting. But the last several pages of this thread has given me some insight. I always thought if a guy didn't approach me, he wasn't interested. Well, I'm not going to look at it in such an extreme way anymore. It would be nice if you men reconsider your take on this, too.

[violetsky]

but this whole thread moved me so much, made me cry. I understand completely the feeling of loneliness...I have felt it all of my life, literally.

 

When I was 3, I began to suffer sexual abuse from a cousin and from a friend of my grandfather's...it lasted for almost 14 years from both of them. I couldn't tell anyone for two reasons: I couldn't tell on my cousin because he was like my big brother (I am an only child), and I loved him, and he told me if I told anyone, they would take him away. When we were older, I didn't tell because he told me he was "in love with me," and made me feel guilty. Finally I couldn't take it anymore and fought back and made him stop.

 

With the friend of my grandfather's, fear kept me from telling anyone. He told me he would hurt me if I told, that he would kill my dog (which he did when he suspected once that I was going to tell), then he threatened to kill my mama. It wasn't until this man and his wife moved away that I was "set free." But in the meantime, my psyche's defense mechanisms took over in the only way it knew how to protect me, and from the age of 3 on, I began to gain weight...by the time I was 15, I weighed over 500 lbs. It took a lot of work, but I have lost well over half of that weight.

 

You can imagine, however, that being the "fat kid" all your life, even fatter than any fat kid around, and a fat kid with a dark, terrible secret, makes for a lonely, lonely life. I rarely made friends because everyone laughed at me, calling me "Fat Albert" or saying "Weebles wobble but they don't fall down," that sort of thing. Even the other fat kids made fun of me.

No dates in high school, nothing like that. I had a guy that I was in love with all my life (still am in love with), but all he's ever been able to see up until lately is the fat. I thought he was "coming around" for a while, but he's with someone else.

 

When you don't fit the mold, no matter how hard you try, it's hard not to feel lonely and hopeless. I'm going to be 39 on Saturday, and all I want to do is cover my head up and sleep the day away. I see my friends with their husbands and children, and I'm happy for them, but it hurts so much. I'm trying to become beautiful, but I fear I never will be. I'm trying so hard to be smaller, I work at it every day, but I know in my heart that by the time I get there, it will be too late.

 

I hate those two for taking away my life...I try to forgive them, but it's so hard. All I've ever wanted was to be "normal," to be loved, to have a family of my own. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and I cry because I didn't die in my sleep. The nights are so long...I try to see the good side as much as I can, but sometimes it's so hard.

 

I'm sorry for all this, but there's no one here I can talk to, and I just had to "let this all go" I guess...

[Mun]

Hi Violet,

You came to the right place. I'm so sorry that you are feeling this way. From what you can see you are not the only one suffering from loneliness. We all deal with it at some point in our lives.

 

You've had a hard life, but you have made it this far. Anyone dealing with half the things you have gone through would have already given up, yet you are fighting. I have deep respect for you because you are working to change all that.

 

I know the kind of scars sexual abuse leaves on a person. It can take an entire lifetime to heal. If it is possible for you, I think it will benefit you to seek counseling. Having gone through therapy myself, I know it is very helpful.

 

You will make it through and you will get those things that you want because you are a person who beats the odds. You can "let go" of all the thing that are burdening you on here. We will listen. I hope you never feel alone again --you aren't alone.

 

Love

[doorik]

Well, I think the consensus is that we'd all prefer to have someone else do the asking, but in my opinion, we have to give a little and step to the plate ourselves, sometimes.

 

Um, I still do about 99.99999999999999999% of the asking. So I'm constantly in th batters box. It's the ladies that sit in the dugout watching the game. It's not that I prefer them to ask, It's thatI wish some of them would actually do it once in a while and not shy away from it because of one bad experience. I mean I still do it eventhough some of the ladies I have asked treated it like it should have been an honour for me for them to just acknowledge my existence. But hey, each time that happens I just climb another rung on the ladder towards becoming those "jaded thirty-something" guys you and Muneca write about.

[Scout]

Doorik, maybe you're going for the wrong girls. Because, as a female, I know tons of other females who don't act uppity when a guy approaches them. The ones that do, well, that's their problem. If you choose to use that as an excuse to become jaded towards women, I beg you to reconsider. For every pretentious chick out there who is deluded about what she actually has to offer, there are ten who are genuinely cool and friendly.

 

Jaded=lonely.