She did it again...

[hers]

What the heck is she trying to get you to pay for?

[annie24]

I was told it's completely fine. We are technically separated, and divorces can take several months or a year to finalize. But, I might just take it down anyway.

 

Also, if she finds me on a dating site, isn't she guilty of doing the exact same?

 

One of her "friends" can find you on there and tell her. I do hope you take down the profile and take done time to heal.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Annie, I thought about what you said during the ride home. I put up the profile out of loneliness. I don't want to risk finding someone like her again or any other trouble, so I just took it down.

 

Hers - pretty much anything. She's combing through old bank statements looking at any major spending, and saying she wants she the money back. For example, she's trying to get half of the security deposit back for our apartment, even though she wants me to pay the rent for the next year and she signed the lease...but she certainly hasn't offered to help pay for the 6K in joint credit card bills or the apartment lease she signed with me. She started off by incorrectly (or lying) stating to the lawyers that the security deposit was double what it actually was...

[hers]

Ok then you want the engagement ring back or money for it.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Yeah, right. I thought I read somewhere that, among other things, an engagement ring is considered a gift and not marital property, so I could not ask for it back. I bet she tried to sell it by now. Lol. Eventually, I'll take my wedding ring to a jeweler and see what they'll give me for it. Might as well.

Ok then you want the engagement ring back or money for it.

[annie24]

It's a conditional gift. I don't know the rules on divorce - if you can get it back. Be careful not to do too much back and forth with the lawyers. You don't want to spend $4000 in legal fees arguing over a $1000 ring, like some people do.

 

Glad you took down the profile! You can try meetup - I've met some nice people through there.

[DN]

Depending on where you live, an engagement ring is a conditional gift. The condition is that a marriage has to take place. Once it has taken place the ring is hers even in the event of a divorce.

[NewPhillyGuy]

I don't care about the ring. I just want this divorce finalized and her out of my hair.

[NewPhillyGuy]

but I can't help wondering if she was cheating and if all of this was pre-mediated.

 

It just seems so crazy to me.

 

The day before she robbed our apartment, she emailed me to say she wanted to come back here early in the morning to get "clothes". Knowing her, my gut told me she was not coming for just clothes, and I asked her to wait until the weekend, and we had to mutually agree on what she could take from the apartment.

 

She showed up anyway, and took alot more than clothes.

 

I was also thinking for this past month she has showed no emotion at all. She never tried to initiate any contact with me, never asked for me back, never apologized, did not contact me to try to work things out about dividing our property. She stole from here, and then hired a lawyer!

 

I think about how her abuse got worse and worse over the past few months. I think about how she's trying to get as much money as possible.

 

There are security cameras all over this building. She took so much stuff, and I bet she had help. It still would have taken hours to move that much stuff, and I don't see how it all would have fit in only her car. I would love to see the tapes for that day to see who was with her.

 

Especially when I think about the STD, it all feels so shady to me.

 

You THINK you know a person...!

[DieTeufelKatze]

NPG, I've just read this entire thread... good for you for getting out! I was in a few abusive relationships with some unstable people, one very physically abusive relationship when I was 20. Trust me when I say that not ALL people are crazy and abusive. I am living proof that you can find a spouse who is loving, kind, committed and supportive. And FYI, we had a little, inexpensive backyard wedding that was beautiful and special... you are so right about people spending way too much on the pageantry of a huge, expensive wedding! A big, lavish wedding does NOT mean you will have a good marriage!

 

I think far too many people focus on the planning of the wedding instead of the planning of the marriage. It sounds like you did all of the former, with none of the latter - BIG mistake! It's okay, people make mistakes and divorces happen every day. I know this experience has clouded your view of marriage, but with the right person, a good marriage can make you happier and more content than you'd realize.

 

I also encourage you to be single for a good, long while. I spent many YEARS single in my journey of self-discovery, and though I had some bumps along the way (including my last relationship before I met my husband - I learned what I DIDN'T need in a partner), I am so glad I took the time to really be okay with being alone (and sometimes, lonely).

 

You will meet the right person someday, but first you need to have a break so you can focus on getting clear about your boundaries and learning to not ignore red flags from unstable people! I had a pattern of attracting the crazies too... which I was finally able to break when I met my wonderful husband. It took work though, and you can bet your boots I was scrutinizing him in our first few months of dating. You sound like a level-headed, non-abusive guy, you need to change your pattern or you will just end up with the same crappy people. You deserve someone who treats you with kindness and respect.

 

Hang in there, you're doing great. : )

[NewPhillyGuy]

It helps to hear from someone who has been there. May I ask you a few questions?

 

Did you ever worry that so many experiences with abusive people were transforming you into an abusive person? I have felt very worried, because I noticed my temper getting shorter and shorter with my wife. For example, her voice having been raised to me so much for several months, there were times when I was quick to scream at her also when she talked down to me. I was so tired of being spoken to like I was dirt, and I lost my cool.

 

My first abusive relationship was when I was 19. This girl I dated in college used to hit me and shove me around all the time. AN experience I will never forget - One day, she took off my glasses and punched me in the stomach. I have very bad eye sight, and she knew I could barely see without glasses or contacts. The reason was she wanted a ride to the GAP to buy some clothes. I had no car at that time, and I told her I was too embarrassed to ask my friend to borrow his, so she got mad and flew off the handle.

 

There were several times that my wife was physically abusive to me, and I also worry about becoming like that. Reason is there was one time where she said something extremely hurtful to me. This was several months into our marriage and she had been abusive to me many, many times by this point. I could not believe that she would have stooped to that level and said something so personal and hurtful. She had commented that my penis was small, etc. It killed me inside to hear it from my own wife. I snapped, and I shoved her. Then, I backed away in complete and utter horror at what I had done.

 

I was scared to death and still am. It didn't feel like me, and I don't want to be like that. People have always told me that I come off as a happy, easy-going, and caring person. I want to be like that - what feels like me and right to me.

 

I know it is different for everyone, but how many years were you single? What did you do to work on your boundaries? Mine need ALOT of work, and I'm not sure where to start. I think it is just remembering the signs, and having the strength and confidence in yourself to say - it's ok to be alone. It's better to be alone than with a person who treats you badly.

[annie24]

NPG - Have you thought about therapy? that could be a good place to start so you can start to establish your boundaries and borders. maybe read some more about domestic abuse. i think that the majority of sites are targeted for women, but there is certainly domestic abuse against males too, and you should look into that.

 

for starters, the first time a woman ever hits you - even if it doesn't hurt you, you need to get out of there forever, and never look back. that's not love. no excuses. this is a hard line you have to draw. it's not ok for women to attack men, just as it is not ok for men to attack women. you and your partner should be gentle and kind to each other. and if you disagree, no fighting or abusive comments. if you start dating a woman, and she makes below the belt comments, leave. right away. abusers can be very good at acting sweet, promising they will change, etc... and then they are back to their old self again. i think you need to have a zero-tolerance policy and if you ever get into a relationship again and see any of these behaviors, RUN! no second chances, ok?

 

how is your relationship with your parents?

 

i'm not a therapist, so i think you can probably get a lot more tips from a therapist and self-help books on this subject. hopefully with some time and new boundaries, you can go onto have a healthy relationship.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Hi Annie,

 

I have thought about therapy, but I've come to see it as kind of a waste of time and money. Having gone to therapists, I always feel like they've only told me things I already know, and I'm not trying to sound cocky. I know I have problems, and that's why I keep winding up with bad people. I've also always felt like why should I pay someone to speak with them when I have friends and family who are happy to speak with me. I'm more into self-help books.

 

Lately, I've been watching alot of TV at night. Tough as it is to admit, I'm a Trekkie, so have been watching alot of Star Trek. When X was here, I was really hoping she would try to watch it with me. I know she really didn't like the show, but I was hoping she would just give it a try. When she asked me to watch TV together, it was mostly shows she liked. If I wanted us to watch a show I liked, she would go off and do something else, or my favorite response, she would get annoyed, because in her mind, watching TV "together" meant watching a show she liked! So, I've been watching alot of that Star Trek during the evening that I never got to watch, because I was usually trying to please her.

 

I've been feeling like all of the TV watching has been rotting my brain, and I want to read more. I picked up the first book of the Hunger Games, and this morning I found what looks like a good self-help book for me - " Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't."

 

I've read books on abuse - verbal, emotional, physical, anger mgmt, which helped me to get a good understanding of the behaviors. What I really need help with is 1) identifying early warning signs of future bad behavior in people and 2) once I see warning signs, making the choice to leave. In the past, I leaned on the good I saw and brushed aside the bad, because I didn't want to be alone, and then have wound up in messy situations...

 

My relationship with my parent is so so. My mother and I have a great relationship. My dad and I do not have a good one. Growing up, he was abusive to our family - verbally, emotionally, and physically. He's been horrible to me going through this divorce. I've learned not to trust him.

[hers]

My husband wanted me to watch star trek the next generation with him and I was so not into the idea of it. But he'd have it on while I'd be in the living room doing a puzzle so I'd overhear the show. Turns out, I really got into it and thought it was a great show.

 

To recognize warning signs and act on them, you need to be aware of your own self esteem and needs. You really have to justify your needs too. By that I mean going "I need to feel wanted/masculine/validated/etc" and saying "does this person make me feel validated? ". If your first instinct is to say no, or if it's a "yes but" answer, then you may need to move on.

 

And of course, that's what we are all here for--to recognize warning signs and red flags for you.

[DieTeufelKatze]

Yes, I definitely was worried that I was becoming abusive myself, both during and right after my truly physically abusive relationship! I remember specifically, a week or two after my former abuser had been carted off by the police (he hit me so hard the left side of my face swelled up to the size of baseball and I was black-and-blue around my eyes for a good week), I was on the computer and my roommate's kitten would NOT stop scratching my chair (in hindsight I think she just wanted me to play with her), so I picked her up and tossed her into my roommate's room, rather harshly. Tears come to my eyes when I think about it now... I was horrified after I realized how rough I was being with her, just this innocent little kitty. I specifically remember looking at my hands and wondering if the evil of my former abuser had somehow infected me too.

 

But I went to therapy (thankfully the courts made sure that was free for me - made my ex pay restitution. He was convicted of Felony Assault II and III and spent time in jail), and I worked on myself. I was single for almost 3 years after that relationship. I came to realize that I'm NOT an abusive person, despite having grown up in a dysfunctional family that yelled a lot and so forth. Before that experience I didn't know what good boundaries are, and I hadn't really worked on my self esteem. I began to read a lot of self-help (excellent idea!), and stood up to another boyfriend later on who became weird and possessive... I learned! And I realized that having lost my temper with the kitty didn't mean I was an abuser. I think I was just struggling with a lot of hurt and anger at having let myself get into such a bad relationship, and I took it out on a poor kitten. Never again.

 

I think you need to work with a good therapist who specializes in abuse and explore your childhood and what your family of origin did to influence your choice in partners. It is probably that since you witnessed your dad abusing others (including yourself, as it sounds) that you feel "at home" with abusive types, and that isn't healthy. I admit that my relationship with my husband didn't seem as "intense" as I thought it should, largely due to the lack of conflict... but as I spent more time in a healthy relationship, I began to realize that while it didn't feel as "homey" as a dysfunctional, abusive relationship, it was 100% more beneficial to be with someone who is so supportive and complimentary... I had finally reached a place where I didn't need the relationship, but that it just added to my life exponentially.

 

Formulating boundaries is as simple as shifting your priorities to never allowing someone to disrespect you or abuse you. It's about being able to recognize when someone is being manipulative or emotionally/mentally abusive to you, and being strong enough to put a stop to it, by leaving. I think reading self-help books like the one you mention in your other post is a great way to start.

 

If I were you, I would not date until you have a clearer understanding of what you want, and where your personal boundaries lie. Those things need to be clearer in your head, and that can take some time. So yes, please read as much as you can and just take some time to work on yourself - what you want in a relationship, how to recognize people that aren't healthy for you, etc.. Don't date for awhile, or you could end up in yet another abusive relationship. You have the power to break the pattern, it just takes time and effort.

[Batya33]

OK NPG you convinced me -I really need to give Star Trek a chance but my TV viewing these days (adult not kids) is limited to about 30 minutes, maybe 45, a day. But when we have more tv time i should give it more of a chance -I like the acting and character development but find the special effects and costumes distracting in a negative way (as does my mother in law, surprisingly!). I hope you are having a better day today.

[NewPhillyGuy]

Yes, I've convinced someone!

 

DieTeufelKatze,

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with me. It feels reassuring to be able to relate to you.

 

Annie,

 

I'm so glad I listened to you about that site. I'm nowhere near ready for that, and the idea of it made me feel worse - the pressure, what if something bad happens again. It was a very bad idea. I was reacting to my emotions and loneliness, and not thinking logically. I want to focus on rebuilding myself and my life. I want to build up my self-esteem, so I can walk the other way if someone like this comes along without a care. I keep telling myself everything will be ok, and I pray a little for healing, so I can focus on myself and being humble and happy with everything I still have.

 

I've been trying to cut back on the TV and read more. I picked up The Hunger Games, and I ordered that book on Safe People. I also haven't been to the gym in about two months, so I want to get back to that soon. I'm also toying with the idea of getting a job on the weekends. Instead of sitting around by myself, it would give me something to do, and while I don't need the extra money, why not make a little extra that I can put away in savings? She's taken alot already, and is after more...I'd like to start building it back up for the future.

 

OK NPG you convinced me -I really need to give Star Trek a chance but my TV viewing these days (adult not kids) is limited to about 30 minutes, maybe 45, a day. But when we have more tv time i should give it more of a chance -I like the acting and character development but find the special effects and costumes distracting in a negative way (as does my mother in law, surprisingly!). I hope you are having a better day today.

[NewPhillyGuy]

During the day, I feel pretty ok. I don't feel sad or upset about this divorce, because I know she was a nasty person. I feel free, lonely sometimes, but free and relieved!

 

I'm starting to feel more comfortable being alone, which is a good feeling. It makes me feel stronger. I can find happiness in little, simple things, and I appreciate that very much.

 

For whatever reason, evenings can sometimes be hard. I start to feel a little sad. I want to look through our wedding pictures and remember the good times. I ask myself if she's thinking about me, missing me, or regretting the way she acted. I try to keep telling myself I'm missing the wife I wished for and not the one I had. That was enough to stop me from looking at the pictures tonight. Looking at them does not make me very upset. I'm not sure how it makes me feel. I guess just confused - why marry me if you are going to treat me like you hate me?

[annie24]

I think it just takes a while to let those feelings fade. They will. Put the wedding albums in a box in the back of the closet and try to do stuff to distract you.

[annie24]

PS - i'm going out on a limb and am going to guess that the reason your dad has not been supportive of your decision to divorce is because he doesn't want your mom getting any "crazy ideas" and leaving her abuser as well (your dad). you say that your dad is not good to your mom, and i think you picked up on that dynamic as well, which is maybe why you chose the wife you did. i would really consider some time in therapy to get some outside advice. i certainly wouldn't seek advice from inside your family on marriage/relationship matters, since their relationships have been toxic as well. definitely take a lot of time before entering another relationship.

[NewPhillyGuy]

I agree with you, Annie. I thought the same thing a few weeks ago, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. How could he be so selfish??

 

I'm trying to figure out some weird feelings I have tonight...Sometimes, I really feel like looking at our wedding pictures. I know they are going to make me feel sad and lonely, but I still want to do it. I want to remember the good times and feel badly. I feel like sad and lonely are familiar feelings, and it's almost like I want to feel that way, but at the same time, I obviously don't want to feel that way.

 

Is this making any sense? Why would I want to feel like this?

 

Another one...lately, I've been feeling like I want to talk to my friends and family more, but I'm worried I might be look at as annoying or a burden, so I haven't been calling people much. Something else that has really been weighing on me - there's this one guy who was in my wedding. I considered him a close friend, even though over the past year, given my wedding and his own wedding planning, we've been very busy and haven't talked that much. Whenever we did, it was like not much time had passed at all. When all of this went down, I hadn't talked to him a while, and I wanted to tell him what was going on. I also felt like I would be a burden, so instead of calling him, I just sent him a quick email basically saying hey, this happened, and it's been hard. Maybe we can talk sometime soon. I sent him that email a month ago, and I haven't heard from him at all. He's the type of person that checks his emails every day, so I find it very strange. I've felt awful about that, because I feel like he's ignoring me, and I can't understand why a person would do that at a time like this? I've been feeling like maybe he read my email, and thought man, I'm not responding, because I don't want to have to listen to all of that.

 

 

PS - i'm going out on a limb and am going to guess that the reason your dad has not been supportive of your decision to divorce is because he doesn't want your mom getting any "crazy ideas" and leaving her abuser as well (your dad). you say that your dad is not good to your mom, and i think you picked up on that dynamic as well, which is maybe why you chose the wife you did. i would really consider some time in therapy to get some outside advice. i certainly wouldn't seek advice from inside your family on marriage/relationship matters, since their relationships have been toxic as well. definitely take a lot of time before entering another relationship.

[hers]

Bc you're more familiar with intense negative emotions than you are positive ones. You may not even realize it but it's completely possible to subconsciously seek out what we are more familiar with in order not to interrupt what we most often feel.

[NewPhillyGuy]

I've been reading this book about Safe People, and it made me realize many things and signs early on I COMPLETELY ignored.

 

First of all, the way she's acting now is so telling. For months, I pleaded with her to change her abusive behavior. The day after I asked her to pack up and leave, she asked me to come back here and take more of her "clothes". The day after that, she came here without telling me, and took thousands of dollars of wedding gifts we were supposed to divide equally. That same day, she hired a lawyer, and since then, has been demanding more and more money for bogus reasons, even though she already has half of our savings account.

 

I've not heard one single peep from her - only through her lawyer when she comes up with a reason to demand more money. Nevermind that she already has her share! It says SO MUCH about her personality, values, and what she really thinks of me and our marriage.

 

From the first day I met her, she was always pushy. I remember the first time I met her, we were dancing together in this bar. She kept trying to not just kiss me, but outright make out with me on the dance floor. I kept thinking to myself - I don't even know you, and this would look so trashy to do this in public. I kept politely backing away, and tried asking her questions to get her talking and distracted from that. The music was so loud that I could hardly hear her. Her friends kept pointing at her and laughing. It was embarrassing.

 

Before we got to the bar, we were at this cooking show thing at a hotel where it was quieter, so I had a chance to talk to her then. She seemed to be nice, was very attractive, but I did notice something was off. She seemed to have this very sarcastic, biting way of talking to me. I know some people, when they are attracted to someone else, will revert to being childish and tease you, because they can't be direct. Although it seemed awkward and set off red flags for me, I still decided to give her a shot, so when she asked me to go to that bar with her friends afterward, I went along with it. That's when the push for making out happened.

 

I had all the info I needed right there - she was overly sarcastic, borderline rude to someone she just met, very pushy when I had made it very clear I wanted her to back off. The same things contributed to the failure of our relationship. As I got to know her better, I saw how far she would take these bad qualities.

 

I got suckered, because in between all of the bad behavior, she would do nice things for me and act so sweet. I brushed aside the bad behavior, focused on the good, and in my mind, created a person who really didn't exist. I married the person I dreamed up inside my head, and not the person who really was - pushy, demanding, high-maintenance, uncaring, selfish, lavish, fake, and abusive in every way possible.

 

She even said to me when I finally said enough was enough and she had to leave - "You married me thinking I would change."

 

She was darn right, and in retrospect, it shocks the hell out of me. That tell me SHE KNEW. She knew she treated me like crap, and she was OK with it. Of course she didn't change, because she didn't WANT to change.