Ways to Tell if A Man is a Pick-Up Artist Con

[Fudgie]

I don't think I'm uncomfortable with men becoming more observant and intuned with themselves. I think the part of PUA that makes me uncomfortable is the manipulation that is talked about in the books, like flirting with multiple women just to "show up" the one you want. I think it's immature, misleading, and stupid.

 

There are some dating guides out there that are great. They give you tips on how to talk to the opposite sex, some advice, etc. Guys can definitely become more observant and intune with women without manipulating or using them.

[Fudgie]

As long as you're not flirting with other girls that you have no interest in or misleading anyone in any way, I don't see the harm in that. I think it's kind of silly, but whatever, as long as no one is getting led on.

 

That's my issue with PUA tactics - things seem kinda backhanded, that's all.

[magnoliatree]

The number of true PUAs out there is minuscule and if you can't spot their BS after 2 minutes, I don't know what to tell you. But I do know that if you go out there thinking every other man is a PUA you are going to be missing out on a lot of great guys. Holding a negative opinion of men isn't really going to help you meet quality men.

[Lonewing]

What I'm talking about is getting a person's foot in the door. What are you arguing? I'm saying PUA is just a form of attracting the opposite sex. It's just as much deception as perfume and earrings are. The points you made are irrelevant.

 

Perfume and earrings have nothing at all to do with PUA. I'm sorry you have such a sorry view of femininity. Looking good is a correltaion with the PUA, but is it not causality; they are not cause and effect. Just because she is wearing earrings and perfume does not mean she is trying to pick up a man to buy her dinner, taker her to a movie, and then say goodbye forever at the end of the night. The girl who is the PUA will emulate this behavior because it is successful, but then she is not honest about her intentions: he thinks she's into him, and she knows she's just using him. It's a HUGE difference.

 

PUA is not a positive form of attracting the other sex: it's deceit. A person who practices deceit is essentially unfit in character to live within a civilized society. There's nothing benign or innocent about it.

[Lonewing]

The number of true PUAs out there is minuscule and if you can't spot their BS after 2 minutes, I don't know what to tell you. But I do know that if you go out there thinking every other man is a PUA you are going to be missing out on a lot of great guys. Holding a negative opinion of men isn't really going to help you meet quality men.

 

I personally know three in just the small group I work with. One's married - he just likes playing the "check out how many phone numbers I can get!" game while he's not wearing his ring. The sad thing is, they'd be having sex with one girl one night, and then be eating their homecooked breakfast made by their sweetie the next morning. Sick.

 

I have no doubt the instance of these people increases exponentially the closer you get to things like universities and military bases.

 

It's best to hold a guarded view of all men or women until you get to know them. There are simply too many dangerous people out there anymore to be naive about it. And seriously, you;re looking for a relaitonship with someone you're hopiing ot invest the rest of your life with - that is something not to take lightly!

[Lonewing]

Yeah too bad lasting relationships have already happened with tons of people that have participated in PUA. You should go look up Adam Lyons. Review his story. He's happily married. His wife even helps promote his PUA business and is good at it herself too. Not to mention a ton of other folks who have successfully had long lasting relationships. PUA is simply conversation. I'm sure there are some scumbags out there that are just out for "hit it and quit it", but you can say that about anyone regardless if PUA even existed. Trickery is not exclusive to PUA, nor is it it's main agenda. A bunch of people wouldn't be participate if all they wanted to do was hurt people's feelings over and over again. That would get old fast. Women do the same thing to. So let's stop with the "victim" card.

 

First of all, this man is far too young for me to give his hypothesis any credibility as a working theory, particularly under the light by which you defend it. His relationship with his wife has not yet stood the test of time - it's still fresh. Come to me when he's 50, or 75, and if they're still together, I'll listen. I have little doubt they'll be split in less than ten, if not five.

 

Of COURSE she supports his enterprise - it's GREAT MONEY!!! Why do you think she's with him, anyways??? He's Famous, she's on the skirts where she wants to be!

 

And of course he's going to go to great lengths to defend his methods - he's SELLING a product of qesutionable more content!

 

Sex gets old fast? No, these guys around here that I know enjoy the saladbar effect of having lots of differnet women when they want them. They have no consideration for feelings - none - "hey, a girl's gonna get her feelings hurt, that's just how the world works." It's about getting theirs and having fun, and they get upset at people who come down on them - "hey man, I'm just having a little fun!" I've heard far too much about it all.

 

These guys are practicing PUA, but they aren't read up on the game or anything - it's homegrown. PUA came form somewhere, and these guys could very well publish their own "methods" manual. Same game, different name.

[Lonewing]

1. PUA's are scum who want to use women: True.

2. Any man using these are bound to fail: the question is, fail at what. Fail at getting by? maybe not. Fail at life in general? Yes.

 

 

Yes, I brign up Mystery and Strauss. No matter what name you put on this PUA horse, though, it's still the same horse. A Trojan Horse. One which is Great for sacking and looting...at the loss of self.

 

PUA IS backhanded! That's why it leaves a bad taste in the mouth!

[Lonewing]

Somewhat. You'll find that age has no relative bearing here - the defenders of PUA come in all ages, sizes and shapes. The easiest route towards uncovering them, though, is to head in the direction of those people who enjoy open relationships. Amongst this crowd you'll find more and more people defending the right of each and every human being to seduce and use other human beings for their own pleasure. A second way to spot them are to locate those wh olook down on mongamy or any from of 'serious commitments,' particularly weddings. Those who say "meh, weddings are just over prced parties anyways" are completely missing the whole point of a wedding in the first place, or their responsibility in crafting a wedding as they please. At the end of the day, it's NOT about the party - it's about the message, the meaning, the public acknowledgement of those vows being made. It's easy to promise one person you'll be there for them, but by putting yourself in front of all her family, you're promising not just 1 but 10, 20, 50 people near and dear to her that you will not break your promise to her - cal it public peer pressure to do what's right!

 

I personally do not recognize money as anything more than time saved up into a tangible form. Hence, I see PUA as a very nasty thing because it wastes time at it's raw source - Yes, there are many people who absolutely insist they can live like adolescent childrne forever, but I have yet to find a society where this behavior leads to long term social success. If anything, every society that has degraded to this sort of behavior has befallen great ills including depressions, wars and raiders. This behavior isolates the inidividual - thus, when trouble comes from outside, there's nothing the inside can do to resist it - there are no savings, there are no resources, no organization, no loyalty to each other, poor leaders elected on the wrong principles [if you elect me, we'll all drink wine until long into the night!], and few people who care to stand up for anyone but themselves. And of those, most of them are already of the attitude of "when the big one comes, I'm grabbing my guns, getting in my truck and running! F everybody esle!" Yep...Idiocy...

[galaxy71]

There is no one PUA strategy. There are a lot of people who hold different views of PUAs. I think you refer to the Mystery Method version of PUA that does use manipulation in order to get women into bed. But not all people use Mystery Method to mainpulate women. Some PUAs are into routines. Other PUAs are into building a connection. There are other PUAs who are into confidence. You imply that all PUAs want to be players who manipulate women into bed. You keep on ignoring the fact that some guys use to improve themselves. Other guys use it because they want to get in a relationship. I consider it a tool that can be used for good or bad. I know that most of your arguments will focus on only one aspect of PUA in order to make it look really bad.

 

 

 

You are assuming that all PUAs try to get into women's pants by pretending that there is going to be an exclusive relationship. A lot of PUAs teach guys to be honest and direct about their intentions right away. PUAs like Alan Currie teach guys to let women know upfront what his intentions with women are. Early in the conversation, he will tell a woman that he likes her. He is like you when he condemns guys for manipulating women into bed. I remember reading a long debate he had with some player who manipulates women into bed. He blasted the player on how guys like him make women leary of men. It's interesting to note that Alan puts nice guys who try to get closer to women through the friendzone in the same category as players who use mind games on women. Both groups manipulate women because they try to hide their intentions with women. Your view of PUA is so 2006. Back then, Mystery Method was all the rage. Now, it's not as popular as it used to be. I think a lot of guys realized that it is more healthy to focus on self-development rather developing a false self.

 

 

 

You should say "Mystery's interpetion of PUA is a scam because it's built up upon what girls hate most: Dishonesty." Again, you seem to assume that guys like Mystery and Neil Strauss are the presidents of PUA. In reality, Mystery and Neil Strauss are frequently criticized and ridiculed as being over the hill guys who rely on gimmicks and techniques as a crutch. There are guys like Owen Cook, Wayne Elise, and Adam Lyon who teach guys not to be dependent on scripts and gambits. 2006 is over.

 

The best way for a woman to avoid a player is to date a man who shares her values and beliefs.

 

 

 

And you seem to ignore the fact that a lot of women can maturely handle being friends with benefits. If a grown woman goes into a FWB arrangment hoping for more, she deserves to be played because she is being deceptive herself when she says one thing but hopes for something else. Who are you to tell a grown woman that she shouldn't be FWB with a guy if she consents to the arrangment. What two, consenting adults do in the bedroom is really none of my business. Personally, I think that guys who want to be in a relationship should date women who want to be in a relationsihp. Guys who want casual sex should hook up with women who want casual sex. You seem to imply that women who want casual sex shouldn't do it because a lot of them can't deal with the consequences of actions that they chose for themselves.

 

 

 

Again you assume that ALL PUAs are guys like Mystery and Neil Strauss who believe that you have to fake it in order to make it. When in reality, there are a lot of PUAs who object to "indirect" game as being unethical and manipulative. There are plenty of guys who emphasize showing your interest instead relying on some gimmick like negging and fictitious stripper stories. You and the OP are doing your job. A lot of guys in the pickup community realize that using game to manipulate people not only pisses other people off, but it makes you feel shame that you have to pretend to be something that you are not in order to make people like you. A lot of people who use PUA are focused on working out, developing their public skills, and taking acting classes. PUA is a tool. It can be used for good or bad.

 

 

 

A lot of guys in the pickup argument used the same argument against Mystery Method. I remember reading a post where Wayne was ridiculing Mystery for relying on a false self to attract women. He was poking fun at how Mystery acts like a street entertainer to pick up women. Lonewing, your arguments would have been much stronger a few years ago when Mystery Method was the most popular method in the pickup community.

 

 

 

Again, many in the pickup community have used that same line of thinking to criticize Mystery Method. I can tell that you base your understanding of PUA on The Game and the Mystery Method. I think you should realize that The Game was written in 2005. Mystery Method is no longer idolized in the pickup community because many realized that creating a false self will only make feel shame and disappointment that you have to pretend to be something that you are not. I think you need to examine some other interpretations of PUA besides Mystery and Neil Strauss. Examine guys like Wayne Elise, Owen Cook, or Alan Currie. There are lot of different types of lines of thinking in the pickup community. We have a lot of debates on which style of pickup is effective, healthy, and ethical.

[ProtestTheHero]

It's fine that they creep you out, but there isn't like a vague rule book of things PUA's must do. There's no requirement to hit on multiple women to raise your social status. It's not like this is all the equivalent of an ingredient list and that by following the ingredients you get the same cake every time. People and situations are complex and nothing is ever the same twice, so the guys doing the stuff you're talking about all the time are doing it wrong.

 

Hobbies just make your life less boring, so if a guy is generally a pretty boring person than taking up some hobbies will improve a lot of areas in their life, but there's nothing about a hobby that gives you a dramatic edge or an in with a woman.

 

There is also no real advantage to becoming good friends prior to dating. The only time that works is if the women you're around are extremely traditional/religious/reserved, and as someone who is not into extremes that doesn't at all appeal to me.

 

You don't need to actively manipulate anyone. All you have to do is generate interest. "Hi, my name is Tyler and I play cards and want to go to law school" is like 1000x less effective than almost any other random cold approach.

 

No one can be "used" for sex unless they are raped. You either consent to having sex or you don't, and if you do and reality didn't meet your expectations then it's time to blame your standards or lower those expectations.

[Fudgie]

I think hobbies will make a man more interesting to a woman. They will have something to talk about, to have in common.

 

I agree on the friend bit. I just mentioned a guy starting to have female friends as a way to get better with women as a way to help guys who literally clam up with ANY women, romantic interest or not. There are guys out there like this and it's quite sad. I think to this extreme, these guys need to get some female friends first just to get used to the opposite gender in general.

 

My concern on the "using" people bit didn't have to do with sex, but in the PUA thing I read, it talked about hitting on other women not because you're interested in them, but just to make yourself look better to your "target". I don't know, something about that feels backhanded and kinda mean. How would you feel, as a guy, if a woman came up and hit on you for a while, made you feel good, and you wanted to talk to her more, and then you realised as she walked away and did it to more random guys, that she was just doing it to "prove" herself to her target? It's just not a nice thing to do and I certainly wouldn't want to be treated that way.

[90_hour_sleep]

How would you feel, as a guy, if a woman came up and hit on you for a while, made you feel good, and you wanted to talk to her more, and then you realised as she walked away and did it to more random guys, that she was just doing it to "prove" herself to her target? It's just not a nice thing to do and I certainly wouldn't want to be treated that way.

 

i'd be grateful...honoured even...that she included me in her journey to glory.

 

nice to feel helpful

[Fudgie]

i'd be grateful...honoured even...that she included me in her journey to glory.

 

nice to feel helpful

 

Lol, are you being sarcastic? I can't quite tell, lol.

[90_hour_sleep]

Lol, are you being sarcastic? I can't quite tell, lol.

 

not really.

 

i think sometimes it's more favourable to not take things personally.

 

and if i can help someone else achieve happiness with no effort on my part...why not?

[Fudgie]

I never thought of it that way. That's interesting way to think of it.

 

If I knew beforehand what was going on, then I'd be down for it, it's the just the initial "Hey I really think this guy likes me! He's spending time with me!" and then "Ohh....I guess not."

[90_hour_sleep]

I never thought of it that way. That's interesting way to think of it.

 

If I knew beforehand what was going on, then I'd be down for it, it's the just the initial "Hey I really think this guy likes me! He's spending time with me!" and then "Ohh....I guess not."

 

yah...i see where you're coming from. there's alot of room for disappointment.

[LaKings55]

First of all, this man is far too young for me to give his hypothesis any credibility as a working theory, .

 

And at the ripe old age of 29, you seem wise with knowledge. Oh teach us great one, lol. Why don't you gain more experience as well. You calling people young at 29 is literally the pot calling the kettle black.

[GhostRocket]

And I'm sorry you have such a negative bias against something you don't completely understand. PUA is a form of charisma. It's not deception. It's an attitude. A means of attracting the opposite sex...just like perfume and high heels can be. But you're right just because someone is wearing certain accessories doesn't mean they are trying to get into a man's pants. The same thing about be said about conversation. Just because I talk a certain way and flirt with women, doesn't mean I necessarily want to sleep with them. PUA doesn't teach you to be dishonest. It doesn't teach you to lie or cheat. Most people wouldn't be down for that, and PUA would fall into obscurity if that was truly the case. Like galaxy71 said there are many different forms of PUA. What it does is give you more confidence, but not by deception. Life isn't that black and white as you're trying to make it out to be. Sorry. If you this is what you believe you can't be helped.

[GhostRocket]

galaxy71 pretty much laid down the law on this one. K.O.

[Ms Darcy]

Bad guys give good guys a bad name just as manipulative women give the good ones a bad rep. It only takes one bad experience with a PUA to sour your impression of men. All I ask is that you remember that behind that manscaped face, nice shirt, and overpowering cologne is a scared little boy expecting full-out rejection from you. It's discouraging, demoralizing and generally humiliating. If you flat out turn a guy down, I guarantee you the majority of people laughing will be women. Why? Because most men who have any courage have been there, and trust me, it sucks.

 

It's always a good reminder to be nice to someone asking you out.

 

I know my ex would have had nothing to do with me if I had acted enamored with her when I first met her. In reality I was smitten with her when we first met. But I played it cool, I acted distant, removed, etc. Deep into our relationship, she used to say that she thought I hated her when we were first hanging out with mutual friends. In reality, she was the only thing on my mind. Some might say love at first sight. But if I had acted that way, and kept contacting her, and being clingy, she'd have run away.

 

That reminds me of something an ex said a long time ago. Boy you men can really play your feelings close to the vest!

[Lonewing]

I never thought of it that way. That's interesting way to think of it.

 

If I knew beforehand what was going on, then I'd be down for it, it's the just the initial "Hey I really think this guy likes me! He's spending time with me!" and then "Ohh....I guess not."

 

Nailed it, Fudgie. Absolutey NAILED it.

 

Pick Up Artist. That is what PUA is. Their artistry is in the Pick Up - which means they pick people up without care about who or why. Con Artist is a similar comparison. Those who might defend PUA would probably also defend the robin hood types - regardless of robin hood's intention, It's Still THEFT!

[Lonewing]

There is no one PUA strategy. There are a lot of people who hold different views of PUAs. I think you refer to the Mystery Method version of PUA that does use manipulation in order to get women into bed. But not all people use Mystery Method to mainpulate women. Some PUAs are into routines. Other PUAs are into building a connection. There are other PUAs who are into confidence. You imply that all PUAs want to be players who manipulate women into bed. You keep on ignoring the fact that some guys use to improve themselves. Other guys use it because they want to get in a relationship. I consider it a tool that can be used for good or bad. I know that most of your arguments will focus on only one aspect of PUA in order to make it look really bad.

 

No matter how you color it, what mystery and strauss expound is precisely what PUA is. Using this method to improve yourself makes absolutely no sense - you get better by comproising your values??? That's not improvement. PUA is not about attraction or confidence - it's about developing those tools towards a darker purpose. And as I keep saying, there are far better resources available to young awkward men seeking to be better at communicating with women. These other resources will no doubt include the parts about improving personal hygiene, appeareance, and such. That's becasue they are common denominators. The rest of PUA is not necessary to becoming attractive to females.

 

 

You are assuming that all PUAs try to get into women's pants by pretending that there is going to be an exclusive relationship. A lot of PUAs teach guys to be honest and direct about their intentions right away. PUAs like Alan Currie teach guys to let women know upfront what his intentions with women are. Early in the conversation, he will tell a woman that he likes her. He is like you when he condemns guys for manipulating women into bed. I remember reading a long debate he had with some player who manipulates women into bed. He blasted the player on how guys like him make women leary of men. It's interesting to note that Alan puts nice guys who try to get closer to women through the friendzone in the same category as players who use mind games on women. Both groups manipulate women because they try to hide their intentions with women. Your view of PUA is so 2006. Back then, Mystery Method was all the rage. Now, it's not as popular as it used to be. I think a lot of guys realized that it is more healthy to focus on self-development rather developing a false self.

 

That is what a pickup artist DOES. Pickup artistry is about picking up any person you decide to pickup, regardless of who they are or what you are yourself. Self development is NOT PUA. PUA is still quite popular, despite what you are saying. You are quite right in that it has evolved - evolved into this mess which tries to be something more than PUA, but is in all reality still PUA.

 

You should say "Mystery's interpetion of PUA is a scam because it's built up upon what girls hate most: Dishonesty." Again, you seem to assume that guys like Mystery and Neil Strauss are the presidents of PUA. In reality, Mystery and Neil Strauss are frequently criticized and ridiculed as being over the hill guys who rely on gimmicks and techniques as a crutch. There are guys like Owen Cook, Wayne Elise, and Adam Lyon who teach guys not to be dependent on scripts and gambits. 2006 is over.

 

It's still PUA. The Dishonesty women are upset about is not merely jsut the opening initiation. It goes further - listen to fudgie:

 

I never thought of it that way. That's interesting way to think of it.

 

If I knew beforehand what was going on, then I'd be down for it, it's the just the initial "Hey I really think this guy likes me! He's spending time with me!" and then "Ohh....I guess not."

 

The Probem with PUA is, the dishonesty starts at Hi, and ends only at Goodbye. The whole premise of the relaitonship is based upon "hey, there's a cute girl, i want to get with her" and ends with "I'm so done with her now - hy, there's a new cute girl." Why do you think so many women these days put Honesty as the first thing they're looking for in a partner??? People don't go through the trouble of defining such parameters unless such values are short to come by.

 

The best way for a woman to avoid a player is to date a man who shares her values and beliefs.

 

And another name for PUA is Player. Plain and simple. PUA is written by players. Plain and simple.

 

And you seem to ignore the fact that a lot of women can maturely handle being friends with benefits. If a grown woman goes into a FWB arrangment hoping for more, she deserves to be played because she is being deceptive herself when she says one thing but hopes for something else. Who are you to tell a grown woman that she shouldn't be FWB with a guy if she consents to the arrangment. What two, consenting adults do in the bedroom is really none of my business.

 

Personally, I think that guys who want to be in a relationship should date women who want to be in a relationsihp. Guys who want casual sex should hook up with women who want casual sex. You seem to imply that women who want casual sex shouldn't do it because a lot of them can't deal with the consequences of actions that they chose for themselves.

 

You seem to be ignoring the fact that many of the women who get picked up by PUAs are not looking for FWB, but for something more serious. You're also ignoring the fact that the PUA is not interested in her as a person, but in her as a woman or more plainly as a female. She had might as well be ANYBODY when he walks up to her.

 

Women are fully free to be FWB - I have no issue with this. WHat I have issue with are people who pretend they aren't interested in FWB but a serious relaitonship, when all they are really after is a FWB with sexual, physical, social and financial benefits. PUA is the cornerstone of this deceit.

 

Again you assume that ALL PUAs are guys like Mystery and Neil Strauss who believe that you have to fake it in order to make it. When in reality, there are a lot of PUAs who object to "indirect" game as being unethical and manipulative. There are plenty of guys who emphasize showing your interest instead relying on some gimmick like negging and fictitious stripper stories. You and the OP are doing your job. A lot of guys in the pickup community realize that using game to manipulate people not only pisses other people off, but it makes you feel shame that you have to pretend to be something that you are not in order to make people like you. A lot of people who use PUA are focused on working out, developing their public skills, and taking acting classes. PUA is a tool. It can be used for good or bad.

 

When the beginning of the tool is "Fake it until you make it," it is never Good. But lets go further into this PUA tool. This tool is not about friendship that leads towards either friendship or a serious relationship - it's about a quick initiaition that gets the most out of that person as quickly as possible before moving on to the next. It is not Relationship Artist. It's Pick Up Artist.

 

People HATE actors. People HATE politicians. PUA is about developing a better sociopolitical front - for a purpose which is utterly disgraceful - to use the time of that other person.

 

A lot of guys in the pickup argument used the same argument against Mystery Method. I remember reading a post where Wayne was ridiculing Mystery for relying on a false self to attract women. He was poking fun at how Mystery acts like a street entertainer to pick up women. Lonewing, your arguments would have been much stronger a few years ago when Mystery Method was the most popular method in the pickup community.

 

Of course they do. It is popular now to kick the mystery PUA - because the women caught on. The only argument to support PUA today is one that kicks mystery PUA. but it is STILL pua. And women STILL HATE it. No matter how you paint the horse, it's still the same horse...

 

Again, many in the pickup community have used that same line of thinking to criticize Mystery Method. I can tell that you base your understanding of PUA on The Game and the Mystery Method. I think you should realize that The Game was written in 2005. Mystery Method is no longer idolized in the pickup community because many realized that creating a false self will only make feel shame and disappointment that you have to pretend to be something that you are not. I think you need to examine some other interpretations of PUA besides Mystery and Neil Strauss. Examine guys like Wayne Elise, Owen Cook, or Alan Currie. There are lot of different types of lines of thinking in the pickup community. We have a lot of debates on which style of pickup is effective, healthy, and ethical.

 

Regardless of what you're doing, you're still practicing PickUp. The thing about the Game and the Mystery Method that makes them so easily relevant to this discussion is how they are openly honest about their methods being dishonest - about being someone you're not. Now while your higher educated crowd may have evolved your persona, you're still practicing THE SAME BEHAVIOR. Your intentions and your goals are still the same. The only differnece is, you're now deluded to thinking that what you're doing is indeed honest.

[Lonewing]

And at the ripe old age of 29, you seem wise with knowledge. Oh teach us great one, lol. Why don't you gain more experience as well. You calling people young at 29 is literally the pot calling the kettle black.

 

29 is very young - as I myself well know. The difference between me and him is I have not stated a new Hypothesis. He has. A hypothesis does not become true in the absense of an alternative hypothesis. It is either true or it is false on its own premise. And in this case, I am educated enough to know that a social hypothesis does not become working social theory until it has stood the test of time - nothing less than 25, 50, or 100 years. In this case, you're holding up to the light a person who's hypothesis is less than 15 years old, at the most, who's marriage occurred in Jul 2009; that's only a little more than 2 years. This essentially means his hypothesis is still within the envelope of error - like I said, come back when his marraige is 30, 50 years old, and I'll listen to his hypothesis as a serious theory.

 

Atkins had a hypothesis too - one which many people call a working diet theory - and his hypothesis killed him. Shocking, isn't it?

[Lonewing]

galaxy71 pretty much laid down the law on this one. K.O.

 

Laid down the law? Are you that deluded???

 

The problem with this debate is the same problem that occurs within philosophy or politics: the followers cling to the belief because it has become to them as a religion would come to the deeply devoted. You cannot be dissuaded one way or another - regardless.

 

Take heart, though, in this truth: no matte rhow high you hold PUA, there are a large number of people like the OP who wish to have absolutely nothing to do with PUA. Someday you may understand why, but I doubt it will be anytime soon.

[Lonewing]

Why do you think Mystery Method and The Game are falling into obscurity after having such a high place only 5 years ago??? It's for precisely the reaosn you state.

 

What you fail to reconginze, though, is that your new method, whatever you want to call it, is still based upon the same premise; walk up to a girl you know absolutely NOTHING about, and come onto her like you're serious about being with her. Date her for a couple weeks, seriouslike, and then one you've had enough, [becasue she's not the right one, obviously], dump her and move on - it's her own damn fault for falling for you in the first place, right??

 

This is what PUA teaches - the art of PICKING A PERSON UP. That in and of itself - IS A LIE.

 

Hence why people like the OP HATE PICKUP ARTISTS!